Glutamine For Intestinal Healing

[Lizz7711]

On another thread we were discussing the issue of taking l-glutamine for intestinal healing. I have my concerns based on the body's ability to convert glutamine to free glutamic acid if there is already enough glutamine in the system, then it crosses the blood/brain barrier and can do damage. But, maybe taking glutamine in this form is safe. Does anyone have any experience with this amino acid? Any positive results or negative effects?

thanks!

Here's what I posted on the other thread (I don't know how to put the link on here so I just copied and pasted!):

Basically, glutamine is the same as glutamic acid...just different forms of the same amino acid. glutamine, or glutamic acid is naturally present in many foods, mostly meat, dairy...and when it is bound to proteins, it is largely harmless, although I think you can still get too much..for instance, parmesan cheese is way high in glutamic acid and my daughter reacts to it like MSG. But when it is separated from proteins, as in the case of MSG, isolated soy protein etc, it becomes an excitotoxin in our brains. To make a supplement called glutamine, they MUST be separating it from it's natural protein buddies found in food, so this is why i'm very worried about taking it. There's a great book written by Russell Blaylock called "Excitotoxins: the taste that kills"--he's a neurosurgeon and is very worried about these compounds, especially glutamate and aspartate.

Anyway, here is some info from wikipedia, this talks about the role of glutamate as a neurotransmitter and how, while it can be beneficial, TOO MUCH can cause it to cross the blood/brain barrier.

Open Original Shared Link

Glutamic acid (abbreviated as Glu or E; the abbreviation Glx or Z represents either glutamic acid or glutamine). The carboxylate anion of glutamic acid is known as glutamate, and this is one of the 20 proteinogenic amino acids. It is not among the human essential amino acids.

Glutamate transporters[3] are found in neuronal and glial membranes. They rapidly remove glutamate from the extracellular space. In brain injury or disease, they can work in reverse and excess glutamate can accumulate outside cells. This process causes calcium ions to enter cells via NMDA receptor channels, leading to neuronal damage and eventual cell death, and is called excitotoxicity. The mechanisms of cell death include

Damage to mitochondria from excessively high intracellular Ca2+;[4]

Glu/Ca2+-mediated promotion of transcription factors for pro-apoptotic genes, or downregulation of transcription factors for anti-apoptotic genes.

Excitotoxicity due to glutamate occurs as part of the ischemic cascade and is associated with stroke and diseases like amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, lathyrism, autism, some forms of mental retardation and Alzheimer's disease.

Glutamic acid has been implicated in epileptic seizures. Microinjection of glutamic acid into neurons produces spontaneous depolarisations around one second apart, and this firing pattern is similar to what is known as paroxysmal depolarizing shift in epileptic attacks. This change in the resting membrane potential at seizure foci could cause spontaneous opening of voltage-activated calcium channels, leading to glutamic acid release and further depolarization.

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Here's another site about glutamine: Open Original Shared Link

It sounds like it may possibly be safe to take it if you're sure you don't already have brain damage. Thjat's the tricky part...how do we know what the accumulation of glutamine is in our system? My dad's mom had alzheimer's and they say for people with alzheimer's to NOT take it, so I think i'll not let my dad try it. But I myself might at least try it, guess that's the only way to know what it's effect is eh?

[Cinnamon]

I tried giving it to my son awhile back, and he reacted badly to it. I'd read so many good things about it being so helpful for intestinal healing, and hadn't made the association between glutamine and glutamate, but I think you are right. If a person is sensitive to MSG, they shouldn't try it. If a person has any neurological symptoms, they shouldn't try it. But for someone who only has intestinal issues and can tolerate MSG, it might be fine. I could probablyuse it since none of that stuff bothers me at all. I used to drink Diet Coke by the gallon, and MSG is no problem. But some people are really sensitive, like my son. And all you hear when you research glutamine is how great it is, so it's good to put this out there. It isn't good for everyone.

[Cinnamon]

Oh, just to clarify, my son has neurological symptoms of celiac. He had been having what appeared to be partial seizures, though we don't know for sure since he never had one during an EEG. He had ataxia symptoms, brain fog, rashes, but didn't have the traditional digestive symptoms, so he's not the textbook celiac type.

[RiceGuy]

I agree that L-Glutamine could cross the blood-brain barrier. What I have yet to verify is if the supplements have a form which is bound up in another molecule. I'm guessing not, and L-Glutamine is the kind of glutamic acid which makes MSG do what it does.

Even if a person doesn't have any noticeable negative reaction to it, how would one be certain that there isn't any damage being done? After all, even with Celiac, many people are asymptomatic.

[Lizz7711]

I've been re-reading portions of the book "Excitotoxins: the Taste that Kills" by Russell Blaylock, MD and it seems clear from his studies as a neurosurgeon, that high levels of glutamine/glutamate or aspartate are damaging to EVERYONE, even if not noticable, but especially to those with neurological/degenerative diseases or brain damage. So I think it's good that you realized how bad it is for your son. But I also think you should avoid it as much as possible for yourself...some damage is unfelt and unseen until all of a sudden a person gets something like Alzheimer's ya know?

I think it isn't good for anyone.

thanks for your comments!

I tried giving it to my son awhile back, and he reacted badly to it. I'd read so many good things about it being so helpful for intestinal healing, and hadn't made the association between glutamine and glutamate, but I think you are right. If a person is sensitive to MSG, they shouldn't try it. If a person has any neurological symptoms, they shouldn't try it. But for someone who only has intestinal issues and can tolerate MSG, it might be fine. I could probablyuse it since none of that stuff bothers me at all. I used to drink Diet Coke by the gallon, and MSG is no problem. But some people are really sensitive, like my son. And all you hear when you research glutamine is how great it is, so it's good to put this out there. It isn't good for everyone.

[Lizz7711]

I agree that L-Glutamine could cross the blood-brain barrier. What I have yet to verify is if the supplements have a form which is bound up in another molecule. I'm guessing not, and L-Glutamine is the kind of glutamic acid which makes MSG do what it does.

Even if a person doesn't have any noticeable negative reaction to it, how would one be certain that there isn't any damage being done? After all, even with Celiac, many people are asymptomatic.

I think even if the glutamine was bound with another molecule, it would still be dangerous esp. for those already sensitive to MSG etc. Although we do eat many foods that have glutamine in them and it is not inherently bad for us, it seems that many people get too much from many sources and once it reaches a certain threshold, accumulates outside the brain and then crosses the blood/brain barrier.

Here is an excerpt from the book "Excitotoxins: The Taste that Kills" by Russell Blaylock, MD p. 204, 208-209. It's taken from a section where he is talking about strokes.

"The pathological findings seen with strokes closely resemble the selective neuron damage observed with excitotoxins. I have tried to demonstrate that excitotoxins, especially glutamate and aspartate, play a major role in strokes and conditions in which oxygen is in short supply. This excitotoxin accumulation is secondary to release withing the brain itself and not due to that taken in the diet. But, knowing that the blood-brain barrier is damaged by strokes and during hypoxia, one logically must assume that high levels of dietary excitotoxins can pose a significatnt threat to ther survival of these floundering neurons in the penumbra zone. In addition , we know that some people are unable to metabolize glutamate from their diet, resulting in abnormal, toxic accumulations in the blood, and hence, within the injured brain. At present we have no inexpenseive way to determine who these unfortunate people are.

We have seen that our normal diet contains enormous amounts of excitotoxins in various forms. Those in liquid form, such as NutraSweet sweetened beverages and MSG containing soups, are more rapidly completely absorbed and therefore pose the greatest risk. Some hospitals add these excitotoxin food additives to the patient's food. In fact, several nutritionists are recommending that glutamine (the precursor of glutamate) be added to the diet of seriously ill patients to improve intestinal function. And cardiologists in some medical centers hae concocted a cocktail containing high concentrations of MSG, with the idea that the glutamate will imporve cardiac function. Patinets on the heart pump frequently have multiple micro-strokes, which would make them very susceptible to occult brain damage. In my opinion, this practice should be stopped".

It is clear from the rest of the book, that glutamate and aspartate are excitotoxins that damage neurons in all people, and so should be avoided even if you don't notice any effects, as you said RiceGuy--it can be silent damage just like silent celiac disease!

My big question now is this: to me it seems that the reason some people like myself and my daughter, have multiple chemical sensitivities and react to MSG and aspartame, must be that there is damage to the blood-brain barrier and more molecules are crossing than they are in other people. Initiailly I was thinking this was due to leaky gut. But when I inhale chemicals...it's not going through my intestine and into the blood stream but through my lungs and into the blood stream. So the common point, is that they are crossing the BLOOD-BRAIN BARRIER and causing distress (headaches, mood changes, rage attacks etc) same thing with gluten. So while I can work on fixing the leaky gut to lower it happening so rapidly from foods, how do I heal the blood-brain barrier leak???

Any thoughts on that? lol

[Cinnamon]

Yes, good point. Just because there are no symptoms doesn't mean damage isn't being done. And even though glutamine is naturally occurring in common foods doesn't mean it's safe to super-concentrate it and take large megadoses, especially since it enters the brain. Best to stay away from it. There are other healing supplements out there. We liked Slippery Elm.

[Lizz7711]

Yes, good point. Just because there are no symptoms doesn't mean damage isn't being done. And even though glutamine is naturally occurring in common foods doesn't mean it's safe to super-concentrate it and take large megadoses, especially since it enters the brain. Best to stay away from it. There are other healing supplements out there. We liked Slippery Elm.

For anyone who reads through the other thread on L-glutamine...take a read of this one as well. In the other thread (from 2005), they discount Dr. Russell Blaylock's research on l-glutamine. Let me just say that this guy is a NEUROSURGEON. And he has over 500 scientific references in his book "Excitotoxins". I"m not saying he can't be wrong on occasioin...but this is something he has spent his life studying and I think i'd trust his view a little more than Dr. Mercola on this point.

I'm not saying it is for sure bad for everyone...but for those with any neurological involvemnet, leaky BBB, I personally would recommend caution/avoidance.