New Here - Ongoing Symptoms After Glutening

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/20/2013 at 2:16 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

True.  But half the stuff we "know" about Celiac has come from someone's own analysis/thoughts.  If we waited for hard "facts", half of us would be dead before the medical professionals figured this out.

 

I am afraid I cannot agree with this at all.

 

Half the stuff I know about celiac?... has not come from "someone's analysis/thoughts"

 

And this is not about "celiac". 

 

Talking about variables in a diagnosis is one thing (and truly irrelevant to this discussion about a product) 

 

Saying something is a fact based on someone's theory is  another.

 

I would never say something is a fact just because I read someone's theory on an internet forum. Even this one.

 

We cannot just assume things as fact based on someone's speculation, hon. That is very foolish, IMHO

[JustCricket]

Thanks, NGC,

 

I decided to look up another source, too, because I was just curious if the attitude is common. Having done purifications, myself, the only way to completely remove impurities would be to run it on a chromatography column or distill it. In cases like these, contamination is still a concern, even after a second processing step. 

 

This is what I found, which seems to echo what you're saying, but also addresses my concern.

 

Open Original Shared Link

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/20/2013 at 2:35 PM, IrishHeart said:

I am afraid I cannot agree with this at all.

 

Half the stuff I know about celiac?... has not come from "someone's analysis/thoughts"

 

And this is not about "celiac". 

 

Talking about variables in a diagnosis is one thing (and truly irrelevant to this discussion about a product) 

 

Saying something is a fact based on someone's theory is  another.

 

I would never say something is a fact just because I read someone's theory on an internet forum. Even this one.

 

We cannot just assume things as fact based on someone's speculation, hon. That is very foolish, IMHO

 

No worries... no one's trying to say you can't have your own opinion.  I read so much information, on-line and in books, and get so much from family members who also have Celiac that I do not keep track of every source of the information.  If I were writing a dissertation I would... but this is a forum where people are free to share experiences, theories, and other information that they have read - whether it is proven fact or not.

 

The fact is... reputable sources include Hershey's miniatures on the NOT gluten-free list.

As I could not find anything specific to Mars products, I contacted them directly - I'm still waiting for a reply.

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/20/2013 at 2:35 PM, IrishHeart said:

Half the stuff I know about celiac?... has not come from "someone's analysis/thoughts"

 

 

It absolutely has.  It wasn't that long ago that doctors didn't even know it existed, then many that wouldn't believe it.  We've come a long way since then.  But before anything gets tested and proven, it is first someone's analysis/thoughts.  If we can't think critically about what is going on for ourselves we're doomed to wait for the "professionals" to figure it out.  Good luck with that one.

[kareng]

  On 11/21/2013 at 3:42 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

It absolutely has.  It wasn't that long ago that doctors didn't even know it existed, then many that wouldn't believe it.  We've come a long way since then.  But before anything gets tested and proven, it is first someone's analysis/thoughts.  If we can't think critically about what is going on for ourselves we're doomed to wait for the "professionals" to figure it out.  Good luck with that one.

 

 

But stating that Mars uses "run-off chocolate" from gluten candy bars in the making of gluten-free ones isn't something that is going to be researched.  It was stated like a fact with no real evidence.  Maybe you will get an answer from the candy company and that will explain things - that would be a fact.  And while we welcome exchanges of ideas and theories, facts that aren't normally known need some proof with them before causing people to run screaming through the super market in a panic about M&Ms or Snickers bars.  But that would be funny to see on the Nightly News!  

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/21/2013 at 3:52 PM, kareng said:

But stating that Mars uses "run-off chocolate" from gluten candy bars in the making of gluten-free ones isn't something that is going to be researched.  It was stated like a fact with no real evidence.  Maybe you will get an answer from the candy company and that will explain things - that would be a fact.  And while we welcome exchanges of ideas and theories, facts that aren't normally known need some proof with them before causing people to run screaming through the super market in a panic about M&Ms or Snickers bars.  But that would be funny to see on the Nightly News!  

 

Agreed!  And I certainly did not mean for it to come across as a researched, proven fact - in fact, all I said was "beware the miniatures".  The Hershey's mini's are definately off-limits.  I know I read somewhere else about the issues with run-off chocolate... just can't put my finger on it now... and I don't believe they made any distinction between brands.

And just to ensure there is no confusion... I never said M&Ms or Snickers Bars weren't gluten-free.  They are.  You just can't assume that the miniature version of Snickers is safe, just because the full-sized bars are safe.

(still waiting on a reply from the Mars peeps)

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/21/2013 at 3:42 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

It absolutely has.  It wasn't that long ago that doctors didn't even know it existed, then many that wouldn't believe it.  We've come a long way since then.  But before anything gets tested and proven, it is first someone's analysis/thoughts.  If we can't think critically about what is going on for ourselves we're doomed to wait for the "professionals" to figure it out.  Good luck with that one.

 

You miss my point entirely. 

.

Everything I, personally,  know about celiac has come from reading celiac research. 

 

I was addressing what you said about the "run-off chocolate containing gluten". You took this whole approach of turning it into a discussion

about celiac and doctors. Not even sure why. 

 

I was making the point that no one should take a sentence in a forum post where she theorizes that chocolate

run off from gluten-containing chocolate gets mixed into the miniatures.

 

Where's the evidence that supports this "theory"? There is none.

That's all I was talking about.

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/21/2013 at 7:49 PM, IrishHeart said:

You miss my point entirely. 

.

Everything I, personally,  know about celiac has come from reading celiac research. 

 

I was addressing what you said about the "run-off chocolate containing gluten". You took this whole approach of turning it into a discussion

about celiac and doctors. Not even sure why. 

 

I was making the point that no one should take a sentence in a forum post where she theorizes that chocolate

run off from gluten-containing chocolate gets mixed into the miniatures.

 

Where's the evidence that supports this "theory"? There is none.

That's all I was talking about.

 

If you want to believe that what you read is "fact" and what I've read is unproven theory and conjecture... that's your prerogative.  If you don't want to believe it could be true just because I can't put my finger on where I read it... that's also your prerogative.  I've already said that I've gone to the source (Mars) and will share what I find out.  I already dug up the documentation about the Hersey's miniatures, and they aren't safe.  If you don't want to believe that it could at least be partially due to the use of run-off chocolate... that too is your prerogative.

 

As far as using one example of how analysis/theory in one particular area lead to research and "fact" (which, by the way changes over time) to explain how the same thing could be applied/possible in another area... that's analysis.  It's how people figure out new things.

 

I am however careful to characterize things I'm unsure of as being "my experience" or "my analysis" - the run-off chocolate thing however is not something I pulled out of thin air - the fact that I can't find it leads me to believe it was in one of the many books I've read.  Which, by the way also include the author's own analysis/theories - not just proven research.

 

If/when I get a response from the Mars folks I'll be sure to pass it along... other than that I'm done bickering with you... believe it or don't.  Eat 'em or don't.  I'm just here to share my knowledge and experience with the hopes that it helps someone.

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/21/2013 at 8:41 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

 

 

If/when I get a response from the Mars folks I'll be sure to pass it along... other than that I'm done bickering with you... believe it or don't.  Eat 'em or don't.  I'm just here to share my knowledge and experience with the hopes that it helps someone.

 Hon, I am not a "bickerer". But I do like to be clear when I provide information about products.

 

I asked you a simple question --was this information on their website.

You cited your source as a post on the forum---this is  a member's theory about "chocolate run-off".

I felt it was not a valid source and you got defensive.

 

You turned it into a discussion about celiac and doctors. 

 

Sorry you did not like my answers, but it's not bickering. It's asking for clarification.

Nothing wrong with that, IMHO. 

 

Best wishes to you.

[notme]

in the meantime, a long black sedan pulls up in front of your house.  giant red and yellow m&m's emerge from the vehicle equipped with ak rifles........  kyle busch is doing burnouts on your lawn, somebody is feeding your dog chocolate......  milton hershey is rolling over in his grave...

 

don't mess wit m&ms 

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/21/2013 at 8:58 PM, notme! said:

in the meantime, a long black sedan pulls up in front of your house.  giant red and yellow m&m's emerge from the vehicle equipped with ak rifles........  kyle busch is doing burnouts on your lawn, somebody is feeding your dog chocolate......  milton hershey is rolling over in his grave...

 

don't mess wit m&ms 

 

 

 omg....you're hilarious, you little whacko. 

[moosemalibu]

  On 11/21/2013 at 8:58 PM, notme! said:

in the meantime, a long black sedan pulls up in front of your house.  giant red and yellow m&m's emerge from the vehicle equipped with ak rifles........  kyle busch is doing burnouts on your lawn, somebody is feeding your dog chocolate......  milton hershey is rolling over in his grave...

 

don't mess wit m&ms 

 

UGHHHHHHHH Kyle Busch. Vomit.

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/21/2013 at 8:58 PM, notme! said:

in the meantime, a long black sedan pulls up in front of your house.  giant red and yellow m&m's emerge from the vehicle equipped with ak rifles........  kyle busch is doing burnouts on your lawn, somebody is feeding your dog chocolate......  milton hershey is rolling over in his grave...

 

don't mess wit m&ms 

 

ROF,L. 

[JustCricket]

IN A FUNK! OMG, It won't seem to go away. 

 

I posted that I wasn't really angry on the "After Celiac Diagnosis Were You Angry?" (my estimation of the title), but I have been moody at times, especially when I find out I can't have a beloved food, like creamed corn! T.T I want to throw a tantrum that would embarrass a two-year old.

[NoGlutenCooties]

I got the skinny from the MARS folks.... drum-roll please....

They emailed me back with a case number and requested that I call their customer service number, so unfortunately I cannot copy/paste their response.

 

The customer service rep said that their products change from time-to-time so you have to read the label every time you buy any one of their products to make sure there are no gluten ingredients and no allergens listed.

I then specifically asked her about the potential for the use of run-off chocolate, explaining it was something I had heard and do they ever do that - because it could raise a serious cross-contamination issue.

She started to reply, "Well we may have done that in..." - then caught herself and said, "No - we definitely would never do that." and then added (paraphrasing here) -  We take allergies and other health issues very seriously.  So if it isn't indicated on the label, then you can be sure there are no issues with any of our products.

 

So it sounds like this could have potentially been an issue in the past..??  - but they're saying definitely not now.

 

Bottom line...

Hersey's miniatures are OUT

MARS miniatures are IN   (as long as you always check the label every time you buy a new package... as with anything else)

 

[notme]

  On 11/21/2013 at 11:06 PM, moosemalibu said:

UGHHHHHHHH Kyle Busch. Vomit.

lolz - right     i'm glad the season is over, this year!   (that's not to say i won't start counting down to daytona any day, now )

[notme]

  On 11/22/2013 at 7:49 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

I got the skinny from the MARS folks.... drum-roll please....

They emailed me back with a case number and requested that I call their customer service number, so unfortunately I cannot copy/paste their response.

 

The customer service rep said that their products change from time-to-time so you have to read the label every time you buy any one of their products to make sure there are no gluten ingredients and no allergens listed.

I then specifically asked her about the potential for the use of run-off chocolate, explaining it was something I had heard and do they ever do that - because it could raise a serious cross-contamination issue.

She started to reply, "Well we may have done that in..." - then caught herself and said, "No - we definitely would never do that." and then added (paraphrasing here) -  We take allergies and other health issues very seriously.  So if it isn't indicated on the label, then you can be sure there are no issues with any of our products.

 

So it sounds like this could have potentially been an issue in the past..??  - but they're saying definitely not now.

 

Bottom line...

Hersey's miniatures are OUT

MARS miniatures are IN   (as long as you always check the label every time you buy a new package... as with anything else)

 

i hate to say i told you so, coots, but...............(<wait a minute.  i LOVE to say that!!!!)  I TOLD YOU SO but, i'm glad you contacted the company   and got your info first-hand.

 

their plant is in hackettstown, nj - about 20 minutes from where i used to live.  i used to deliver paychecks to the cleaning crew up there (and i worked in the office of the cleaning company) so i know how picky picky picky they are.  we had to get special outfits for the crews to wear, and they had to do this, this this specifically.  we sent our best people up there to make sure we kept the contract.    hackettstown hospital is just down the street, and they have one of the best training and education programs regarding food allergies.  (elisa cert?  i want to say but i'm not for sure)  and just down the street from there, is a place called 'mama's baci cafe' and you can get the best gluten-free italian food from a dedicated kitchen.  all their staff is trained and certified and i suspect many of the m&m employees take a course from the hospital.  the cheesesteak from mama's is nom nom nom delicious!

 

they used to give tours of the m&m plant, back in the day, but i don't think they do anymore simply because they were getting too much contamination.  you can still tour the hershey plant, but it's a 'fake' tour.  last time i did it, i think you rode in a little car, like disney world, lolz.  in the springtime, they have a giant antique auto parts swap meet and car show.  

 

i am somewhat of a mechanical looky-loo, so i love factory tours, big machines, trains, trucks, etc and i grew up in north jersey, so we had factories/construction galore.  also, canals - so i know where a bunch of locks and planes used to be.  basically, i am a fountain of goofball information loolz

 

so.  always read the label    and kyle busch induces vomit

[GF Lover]

Correction.  Kyle Busch's VOICE ALONE will induce vomiting

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/22/2013 at 9:19 PM, notme! said:

i hate to say i told you so, coots, but...............(<wait a minute.  i LOVE to say that!!!!)  I TOLD YOU SO

 

their plant is in hackettstown, nj - about 20 minutes from where i used to live.  .....  and just down the street from there, is a place called 'mama's baci cafe' and you can get the best gluten-free italian food from a dedicated kitchen. 

 

   I'm glad I was wrong about MARS miniatures - or the information was outdated, or whatever...  It's good to see companies taking cross-contamination and allergens seriously.  (although the thought of having to "settle" for a full-sized Snickers instead of a baby one wasn't all that bad...)

 

I'll have to look for "Mama's Baci Cafe" - shouldn't be too far from me.  Thanks!

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/23/2013 at 9:38 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

   I'm glad I was wrong about MARS miniatures - or the information was outdated, or whatever...

 

or that someone's old post about what she thought might be happening with "run off chocolate" being gluten cc was not really factual or valid, or whatever.

so are we "all good" here? hope so.

[kareng]

  On 11/23/2013 at 9:38 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

   I'm glad I was wrong about MARS miniatures - or the information was outdated, or whatever...  It's good to see companies taking cross-contamination and allergens seriously.  (although the thought of having to "settle" for a full-sized Snickers instead of a baby one wasn't all that bad...)

 

I'll have to look for "Mama's Baci Cafe" - shouldn't be too far from me.  Thanks!

Unfortunately, this is how Celiac " myths" are born. People read the mis- information, and, for some reason, believe it without any research or common sense, and don't come back a day or two later to read the " truth". Sigh....

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/23/2013 at 10:25 PM, IrishHeart said:

or that someone's old post about what she thought might be happening with "run off chocolate" being gluten cc was not really factual or valid, or whatever.

so are we "all good" here? hope so.

 

Since you asked...  I'll admit that at times I don't appreciate your tone - although, I try to keep in mind that tone doesn't always come through in an email/post/whatever as it was meant to be.

 

That said - I'm glad you requested that the information be sourced.  I couldn't put my finger on where I had read that bit of information (the original post you cite was not the only place I read it) so I went digging for an official (updated) answer.  Now we all know the bottom line... and know it came from a reliable source.  Which is what really matters. 

When I'm wrong, I admit I'm wrong.

 

I still won't trust a bowl of miniatures where I can't read the label from the bag they came in though... but that's just me.

[kareng]

  On 11/25/2013 at 2:36 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

 

I still won't trust a bowl of miniatures where I can't read the label from the bag they came in though... but that's just me.

Not that that was exactly the issue here, but, of course. I can't remember every candy that is gluten-free or no gluten.

First rule of Celiac Club - " Do NOT eat anything if you don't know the ingredients"

[IrishHeart]

  On 11/25/2013 at 2:36 PM, NoGlutenCooties said:

Since you asked...  I'll admit that at times I don't appreciate your tone - although, I try to keep in mind that tone doesn't always come through in an email/post/whatever as it was meant to be.

 

 

I could say the same about you,and some of your posts.... but I know full well that there is no way to interpret "tone" in a post. I always give people the benefit of the doubt.

 

I think maybe you misread me. Maybe you do not get my humor.

I know you have misread other people's posts before, too. 

And just because I asked a question of you, it does not mean I am an antagonist or anything.

I am just asking for clarification. You made a claim that was not true.

 

You do not like my "tone"? You made several statements that were pretty firm, inflexible

and downright rude and defensive. But I did not say anything rude in reply.

 

I am sorry you feel that way about me, though.. 

I think you just do not know me well enough, Cooties, because I am really a very sweet person.

Ask my Mom, my hubs.. Ask my friends. I am pretty sure they'll tell you that's the truth.

 

but, you have your "opinion" and that's cool. I can't help how you feel, I guess. ah well.

 

.... Best wishes to you.

[NoGlutenCooties]

  On 11/24/2013 at 3:46 AM, kareng said:

Unfortunately, this is how Celiac " myths" are born. People read the mis- information, and, for some reason, believe it without any research or common sense, and don't come back a day or two later to read the " truth". Sigh....

 

Point taken.