Cross Contamination Help!

[Jackie F]

I am somewhat new with a Celiacs Diagnosis, (2 months) via biopsy and blood tests.  Short version, I get VERY VERY ill within an hour (+/-) after ingesting Gluten.  I get anxiety, racing heart, palpitations, sweating for about 8-12 hours and then the stomach pains, vomiting/upset stomach and finally fatigue and numbness in joints!  All in all, miserable for about 24 hours!

 

Sorry for the graphic detail above, but just still annoyed, frustrated, etc.  Anyhow, Last night my Fiance and I had a gluten free dinner.  Chicken, fresh green beans and potatoes.  I used Certified Gluten Free Hidden Valley Farms seasoning mix.  About and hour later the awkward feelings started..the anxiety, heart and so on.  We looked at all the ingredients this morning, checked Hidden Valley Farms websites for cross contamination.  Nothing!

 

So, the one thing we traced it back to was he had drank a beer and we were using the same dipping sauce for the chicken.  Is it POSSIBLE to get that sick from him contaminating the sauce?  We used the same bowl and of course, "double dipping" .  This is the second time in a month this has happened.  I ate off his fork at a restaurant and then had some of his steak the next day and got sick.  We blamed it on the restaurant, but I had steak and did not get sick until I ate his leftovers the next day.  Can another person's mouth contaminate my food if they have had gluten?  Crazy question I know, but this is a crazy disease! 

 

 

[shadowicewolf]

Yes, they can.

[LauraTX]

Yep, they can- especially if you are really sensitive which it sounds like you may be.  There has been some discussion on getting glutened from kissing although I think it just depends on the individual circumstance.  If you haven't yet done so, check out the newbie 101 thread on the top of the page under the "Celiac disease- coping with" category.  There are possibly still sources of cross contamination in your kitchen and house so it doesn't hurt to give that a second look and maybe prevent more sick episodes for you.  Welcome to the forum and I hope you feel better soon!

[Jackie F]

Yep, they can- especially if you are really sensitive which it sounds like you may be.  There has been some discussion on getting glutened from kissing although I think it just depends on the individual circumstance.  If you haven't yet done so, check out the newbie 101 thread on the top of the page under the "Celiac disease- coping with" category.  There are possibly still sources of cross contamination in your kitchen and house so it doesn't hurt to give that a second look and maybe prevent more sick episodes for you.  Welcome to the forum and I hope you feel better soon!

Thank you!  I was beginning to think I was just crazy!

[anti-soprano]

If you're that sensitive, also consider that "certified gluten free" usually tests to 20 ppm and some people react to that amount.  I've seen some baking mixes (Fresh Market) that tout most of their batches test to 5 or under ppm.  I'm not sure that applies in this situation as it seems that others have experienced this type of food sharing problem.  But it may be something to keep in mind.

Hope you feel better!

[Nikki2777]

I'm pretty sure I got glutened from kissing my husband once.  As for the comment about 'certified gluten free' possibly still having very small amounts of gluten - it's true and you'd probably be better off with sticking to whole, naturally gluten free foods.  Then that won't be a worry. It does sound like you may be very sensitive.  FWIW - double dipping is off limits in my house.  Everyone takes a scoop of whatever onto their own plates first and works from that.

[Adalaide]

If you're that sensitive, also consider that "certified gluten free" usually tests to 20 ppm and some people react to that amount.  I've seen some baking mixes (Fresh Market) that tout most of their batches test to 5 or under ppm.  I'm not sure that applies in this situation as it seems that others have experienced this type of food sharing problem.  But it may be something to keep in mind.

Hope you feel better!

 

The federal standard, which is not yet legally in place, is 20 ppm. It will be Aug or Sept (I forget, but in the late summer/early fall around when school starts) when it will be enforced, companies were given a year to comply. On the other hand, all three organizations that do certification either do it to 5 or 10 ppm. Open Original Shared Link

 

Double dipping is a definite no-no. As should be kissing without brushing. You can't share an eating utensil or be eating off the same plate if he's having gluten. So if you want to do things like go out and share dessert, you'll need an extra plate to split it. Or he could just skip the beer for a meal if it's supposed to be romantic, because what's less romantic than you clapping your hand over your mouth and telling him to go brush before he tries to kiss you again?

[kareng]

Just want to clarify this <20 ppm. First - that is twenty parts in a million parts...so it's really small. Second- using testing at <20 ppm doesn't not mean the food has 20 ppm. It could be 19 or 2 or 0. If you used the same test on the inside of an apple, it would test as <20 ppm.

[anti-soprano]

Thanks for clarifying my awkwardly placed comment, Adalaide an Karen!  I only added it because I know that some people have gotten ill from things which are labeled gluten free- whether from being super sensitive or from something else.  Since she's so sensitive, I just wanted her to be aware.  But my intent wasn't to scare anyone or give bunk info.  

 

Cheers!

[dilettantesteph]

The gluten content of regular beer isn't actually all that high.  I found a list of some tested and they range from around 20 ppm to around 100 ppm.  Here is a list: Open Original Shared Link

 

In my opinion, the amount that you would get from your husband drinking a beer and then double dipping is very low compared to the amount that you might get from possible cross contamination from a gluten-free certified to 20 ppm seasoning mix.  Some of us do react to very low levels of cross contamination.  I keep to mainly unprocessed foods myself.

[Adalaide]

The gluten content of regular beer isn't actually all that high.  I found a list of some tested and they range from around 20 ppm to around 100 ppm.  Here is a list: Open Original Shared Link

 

In my opinion, the amount that you would get from your husband drinking a beer and then double dipping is very low compared to the amount that you might get from possible cross contamination from a gluten-free certified to 20 ppm seasoning mix.  Some of us do react to very low levels of cross contamination.  I keep to mainly unprocessed foods myself.

 

I think it's a little soon, two months in, to be unnecessarily alarmist. It was already said, but I'll say it again for emphasis, tested to 20 ppm doesn't mean that there is 20 ppm in a product. It just means the test is sensitive enough to test down to that amount. There could be none. You could test fruit, vegetables and meat with a 20 ppm test and they'd all come up negative. Just because you start saying they tested negative on that test doesn't mean they have any gluten at all, they obviously don't. Let's not send a newbie out looking for phantoms on every label to be scared when there is no point.

[bartfull]

AND the amount of CC from double dipping IS enough to gluten anyone. So is eating off a glutened fork. That is why we need seperate mayo jars and butter sticks, etc. And that is why we can't eat a salad if we just pick off the croutons.

[Jackie F]

I appreciate everyone's input.  I knew about the seperate butter, condiments, etc.  In fact, my fiance has gone to eating gluten-free everything unless he is at work, and then he has to brush his teeth when he gets home.  I guess I was just curious, as to can that double dipping persay, make me as ill as I was a couple of days ago.  I guess so!  Lesson learned! 

[Pegleg84]

I have to be super careful about this kind of thing too, since my man is also a beer-connoiseur. We usually have wine with meals unless we're out, in which case nothing usually gets shared. No kisses until teeth-brushing.

 

That said, it's early days for you so all kinds of things could make you react for no real reason. It's that your gut is still healing and is probably super finnicky. Stick to whole foods as much as possible for the time being.

[dilettantesteph]

I think it's a little soon, two months in, to be unnecessarily alarmist. It was already said, but I'll say it again for emphasis, tested to 20 ppm doesn't mean that there is 20 ppm in a product. It just means the test is sensitive enough to test down to that amount. There could be none. You could test fruit, vegetables and meat with a 20 ppm test and they'd all come up negative. Just because you start saying they tested negative on that test doesn't mean they have any gluten at all, they obviously don't. Let's not send a newbie out looking for phantoms on every label to be scared when there is no point.

 

I have never said that tested to 20 ppm means that there is 20 ppm in a product.  What I was saying is that beer contains 20-100 ppm gluten according to the link I gave.  Her husband could have poured enough beer into their shared sauce to make it 10% beer and it would only then measure 2-10 ppm gluten from the added beer.  Since he was drinking the beer, swallowing it, then eating something else which redipped into the sauce, the amount of beer he would have gotten into the sauce would have been much lower than that.  It seems an unlikely source of gluten contamination to me.

[Gemini]

I have never said that tested to 20 ppm means that there is 20 ppm in a product.  What I was saying is that beer contains 20-100 ppm gluten according to the link I gave.  Her husband could have poured enough beer into their shared sauce to make it 10% beer and it would only then measure 2-10 ppm gluten from the added beer.  Since he was drinking the beer, swallowing it, then eating something else which redipped into the sauce, the amount of beer he would have gotten into the sauce would have been much lower than that.  It seems an unlikely source of gluten contamination to me.

If this were true, then we would all be able to share things like dips and sauces with the gluten eaters. You are contradicting yourself.  For someone who washes gluten-free grains because you believe everything is cc'd, you think there is little risk of cc from a shared dipping sauce when one party is consuming beer?     Every reputable Celiac organization I know will tell you that even placing a crouton or piece of bread on the same plate with a gluten-free meal renders that meal unsafe to eat and many Celiac's know this from experience.  As Barty correctly stated in her post, we cannot share things with gluten eaters.

 

 

We have a program in place to support the use of the “Gluten Free” statement. Products listed as “Gluten Free” undergo scheduled testing. All suppliers provide assurance that there are no ingredients that contain or are derived from gluten-containing grains. Our products are manufactured in facilities with stringent allergen control programs to prevent cross contamination.

This is the statement from Hidden Valley regarding gluten free labeling.  After reading this, I'm still going with the double dipping as the source of illness. Kind of a no brainer.

[dilettantesteph]

Regular bread contains 124,000 ppm gluten. Open Original Shared Link

 

It is a strange comparison to make with whatever amount of beer is left in someone's mouth after swallowing it when the regular beer only contains 20-100 ppm gluten to begin with.

[Pegleg84]

To me, any gluten is too much gluten. It's not an issue of amount, It's an issue of it being there at all. Of course, just like some Celiac/NCGI people can handle the mysterious "gluten removed" beers, those people could probably handle a little double-dipping, but I know I definitely can not. It might be a "better safe than sorry" thing, but barring any other source of gluten, then it's the likely culprit.

 

Next time, separate dipping dishes, or no beer at dinner.

[dilettantesteph]

To me, any gluten is too much gluten. It's not an issue of amount, It's an issue of it being there at all. Of course, just like some Celiac/NCGI people can handle the mysterious "gluten removed" beers, those people could probably handle a little double-dipping, but I know I definitely can not. It might be a "better safe than sorry" thing, but barring any other source of gluten, then it's the likely culprit.

 

Next time, separate dipping dishes, or no beer at dinner.

 

I would use separate dishes too.  I just think that when you look at the facts it seems like the likely source is elsewhere.  It may not be enough to use separate dishes.  I would like to hear back from the IP when/if she finds out.

[Adalaide]

It's unlikely she'll ever "find out" since everything she consumed was inherently gluten free. Since that is the case, the gluten had to come from CC. There is no point in debating this or bringing up other likely sources. There is an obvious source for the gluten, 'nough said.

[IrishHeart]

It's unlikely she'll ever "find out" since everything she consumed was inherently gluten free. Since that is the case, the gluten had to come from CC. There is no point in debating this or bringing up other likely sources. There is an obvious source for the gluten, 'nough said.

 

 

I have to agree with this.

 

Jackie,

One thing I recall from the beginning of the healing phase was this: I thought that everything was still getting me because I was still

sick from gut damage. You can have up and down and all around days for many weeks after diagnosis.

I had trouble with things like dipping sauces, tomatoes and spicy food, etc. even though it was all gluten free or made with certified G F products.

And I trust the Certified products, BTW. I do not think gluten lurks everywhere.

But I do think cross contamination is the bane of our existence.  and it can happen anywhere

This does not mean we should be paranoid...just careful.

 

 

I never shared a home or a plate of food or any wet smoochy kisses with a gluten eater because my hubs went gluten-free with me (his decision)

but I can say this: Don't do that!   Have your own bowl of everything, hon. If there was ever a time to be selfish, this is it. lol

 

You're still healing, so be careful and  be patient. Best wishes and hang in there. It gets better, I promise you.

[dilettantesteph]

I agree Irishheart.  When you are still healing it seems like all sorts of things contain gluten when they may be bothering you for other reasons.  I think that it is a good idea to avoid all the sources that you can come up with until you heal and then you can see what you can tolerate and what you can't.  I hope that the people in your life can be agreeable about that.

[Jackie F]

I never did figure out where it came from.  We do not share anything anymore if I know he can cross contaminate me.  I seem to be having issue with packets of seasoning, even if they say gluten-free.  I am wondering if it is the MSG that is bothering me vs. the seasonings.  This is beyond frustrating, but live and learn, I guess.

[kareng]

I never did figure out where it came from.  We do not share anything anymore if I know he can cross contaminate me.  I seem to be having issue with packets of seasoning, even if they say gluten-free.  I am wondering if it is the MSG that is bothering me vs. the seasonings.  This is beyond frustrating, but live and learn, I guess.

I think MSG is a pretty common issue for lots of people - Celiac and not celiac

[IrishHeart]

yeah, MSG makes me sick  to my stomach and gives me a migraine. Always has.