Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Do this, scientists! (experiment to confirm/deny the existence of "leaky gut")


HayInNeedleStack

Recommended Posts

HayInNeedleStack Apprentice

Leaky gut is a condition that we have little knowledge of. 

The symptoms this condition could cause are not agreed upon. Some health practitioners say it could cause "wide range of long term conditions Open Original Shared Link, like chronic fatigue syndrome and Multiple Sclerosis.

The possible cause list NHS gives is much more accurate:

  • Open Original Shared Link – such as Open Original Shared Link
  • infections of the intestines – such as Open Original Shared LinkOpen Original Shared Link andOpen Original Shared Link 
  • Open Original Shared Link 
  • Open Original Shared Link medicines
  • Open Original Shared Link  
  • Open Original Shared Link to the abdomen (tummy)
  • immunosuppressants (medicines that weaken the immune system)
  • Open Original Shared Link 
  • Open Original Shared Link  
  • Open Original Shared Link
  • Open Original Shared Link
  • complicated surgery

As you can see, the list includes a lot gastrointestinal conditions. Gut becomes "leaky", letting too big particles into blood system, and possibly these particles act as poison (because they are not  supposed to be in the blood, thus the possible bad effects).

Now, to confirm this disease, I was amazed that this test hadn't been done before:
Feed the supposed "leaky gut" patients (e.g. celiacs with damaged bowel) with IV fluids. Because these fluids go directly into the blood stream, and the particles are "elemental" (glucose, vitamins, amino acids... all supposed to be in the blood stream anyway), they shouldn't cause any symptoms.

If they notice improvement, the problem is in the digestive system (I'm also including stomach). If not, such condition as "leaky gut" doesn't exist. Rather the problem is how the body reacts to the "elemental" particles. E.g the most common explanation would be diabetes (the IV fluids just caused elevated glucose levels), that also should be tested. Also the "candida theory", because its proponents say the candida is in the WHOLE body, including the blood stream. To eliminate this, patients should take anticandida meds, then again go on IV fluids, and if they NOW get better, it was candida. If not candida, and not diabetes, nor allergies, we have a new condition we aren't even aware of (body reacting to elementary particles with no obvious reason).

However, if the patients DO get better, the problem IS in the gut. Now, it could be celiac disease, and the improvement could have been due to eliminating gluten from the diet (because IV doesn't contain gluten). The question remains that did the bowel actually leak any particles? (not just gluten causing autoimmune reactions and malnutrition, and explaining all the  Open Original Shared Link).  Or the patients just get better due to NOW acquiring all the necessary nutrients.  To eliminate these possibilities, they should feed the patients with gluten-free food (or even better, with elemental diet, because it could also be lack of digestive enzymes or something else). If they get worse, the problem is STILL in the gut, and thus the "leaky gut" exists. If not, "leaky gut" is probably a non-existent condition.


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



stri8ed Rookie

Leaky Gut aka intestinal hyperpermeability, is very much a real condition, and there are existing scientifically credible tests to measure the degree of permeability. (see Open Original Shared Link). Now whether or not various conditions are caused by this, is an entirely different question.

While an IV based elemental diet might help identify the GI as the culprit, it's both costly and not sustainable. So I fail to see what is gained. You can just as well do a water fast, and reach the same conclusions.

HayInNeedleStack Apprentice

Good idea! Add also the lactulose - mannitol test, to confirm they are/are not experiencing leakyness in the gut, then correlate the results with the symptoms (obviously digestive symptoms would have to be excluded, because diarrhea and bloating will probably be present anyway, due to having damaged intestines).

You see, ironically it would be "gluten-free challenge", because possibly systemic symptoms ("leaky gut syndrome")  and GI symptoms start after going IV fluids -> gluten-free (instead of "gluten challenge", which would be gluten-free -> gluten).
 

 

 

 

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Donate

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):





    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):




  • Recent Activity

    1. - PixieSticks replied to PixieSticks's topic in Super Sensitive People
      2

      Working in a kitchen with gluten?

    2. - BoiseNic replied to BoiseNic's topic in Dermatitis Herpetiformis
      11

      Skinesa

    3. - knitty kitty replied to Whyz's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      6

      Feeling ill

    4. - Scott Adams replied to Brianne03's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      5

      Advantages vs. Disadvantages of having an official Celiac diagnosis

    5. - Scott Adams replied to Whyz's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      6

      Feeling ill


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      126,530
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    AnnmarieR
    Newest Member
    AnnmarieR
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      120.9k
    • Total Posts
      69.5k

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • PixieSticks
      Hi yes! I was diagnosed 10 years ago through a biopsy. I’ve been gluten free ever since but no one I’m around is gluten free. I sometimes wore a surgical mask in the kitchen. but I believe particles were still getting through. I’ll definitely look into n95 instead. thanks for the reply. 
    • BoiseNic
      Ya I used to react to iodine, but it doesn't bother me anymore after strict adherence to a gluten-free diet for many years now. I am happy to report that for the first time ever in my life, a probiotic formula is not making me break out, but actually seems to be helping. The strains in this formula have been specifically tested to help with skin issues. It is gluten and dairy free also. 
    • knitty kitty
      @Whyz, I take a combination of Thiamin (Benfotiamin), B12 Cobalamine and Pyridoxine B6 for my pain and headaches.  Really works well without hurting the digestive tract.  Riboflavin B2 also helps with migraines.  Most newly diagnosed people have vitamin and mineral deficiencies.  Check with your doctor and nutritionist.   If you follow the updated gluten challenge guidelines, you can wait until two weeks (minimum) before your appointment, then eat lots of gluten, like six slices of gluten containing bread or "name your poison".   Here's the Updated Gluten Challenge Guidelines: Recommended intake of gluten should be increased to 10 grams of gluten per day for at least two weeks. Or longer. While three grams of gluten will begin the immune response, ten grams of gluten is needed to get antibody levels up to where they can be measured in antibody tests and changes can be seen in the small intestine.   Keep in mind that there are different amounts of gluten in different kinds of bread and gluten containing foods.  Pizza crust and breads that are thick and chewy contain more gluten than things like cake and cookies.   References: https://www.beyondceliac.org/celiac-disease/the-gluten-challenge/ And... Evaluating Responses to Gluten Challenge: A Randomized, Double-Blind, 2-Dose Gluten Challenge Trial https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7878429/?report=reader  "In our study, limited changes in Vh:celiac disease (villi height vs crypt depth - aka damage to the small intestine)  following 14-day challenge with 3 g of gluten were observed, in accordance with Sarna et al.  While the 3 g dose was sufficient to initiate an immune response, as detected by several biomarkers such as IL-2, the 10 g dose was required for enteropathy within the study time frame. Based on our data, we would suggest that gluten challenge should be conducted over longer durations and/or using doses of gluten of ≥ 3 g/day to ensure sufficient histological change can be induced." Keep us posted on your progress!
    • Scott Adams
      I don't believe that existing life insurance policies require such notifications--health checks are typically done before such policies are obtained. I believe it would primarily affect any new policy you get, and perhaps any policy renewal.
    • Scott Adams
      You could go gluten-free now, and then start eating lots of gluten for at least 2 weeks before your endoscopy--just be sure to tell your doctor about this beforehand. If your symptoms go away on a gluten-free diet, it is further evidence of celiac disease and/or non-celiac gluten sensitivity.  Approximately 10x more people have non-celiac gluten sensitivity than have celiac disease, but there isn’t yet a test for NCGS. If your symptoms go away on a gluten-free diet it would likely signal NCGS.  
×
×
  • Create New...