No Oj for me today

[Awol cast iron stomach]

I had to research today from last night's reaction. Never thought oj would be  a problem. I see from past posts some have had concerns about orange juice . I've joined the club.

Myself and DS are reacting to something in pure premium. Just wanted to share info I found in case one day someone else has this experience. While I can't say it is gluten cc we also are corn and milk free, just know we are having a reaction and we just opened a new pure premium that we both drank from. It is possible I'm sensitive to chemicals the flavors / scent added after processing possible culprit. Sad as oj has the vitamin c good for immune system. Which is disheartening if DS is as sensitive as mom didn't appear to be until now. I'm not sure but felt the need to put this out there for those concerned with labeling and who are sensitive.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

 

 

Edit: one more link

Open Original Shared Link

Maybe today is a coffee day? 

[Ennis-TX]

I have a friend who reacts to raw oranges, apples, and bananas. Funny thing is they are fine with cooked foods using them and pasturized orange juice. Some odd food allergy that gets broken down with heat.

SIDE NOTE. I just reintroduced iceberg lettuce, and romaine after not having any in 4 months......I HAVE A NEW INTOLERANCE. even just plain iceberg organic, pieces from the core without chemicals make me horrible sick and vomiting....they used to be fine....WTF?! Oh well spinach is fine and the canned stuff is cheaper and more nutrient dense....but really WTF?! Yeah I tried 2 brands and even the organic one.

[cyclinglady]

We rarely drink orange juice.  Why?  Because it is full of fructose which is not bad, but you would probably never sit down and eat more than 2 oranges in one sitting.  Makes you wonder why diabetes is so prevalent.  The other reason is laziness.  I have citrus trees and juicing them takes time and work.  I reserve that for special occasions.  

Citrus is acidic.  It can be harsh on a damaged gut.   My non-celiac kid actually gets hives from eating too many oranges.  Moderation can be a good thing.  

Consider getting your vitamin C by eating fruit and not juice.   

[Awol cast iron stomach]

Thanks Ennis and cycling lady,

Ennis thanks for letting me know I'm not alone on the goofy intolerance stuff.

cycling lady I'd love an orange tree that must be great to just go pluck one to get your serving. We do fruits regularly here too. 

I just test the lands of processed land occasionally and apparently the land mines are everywhere.

I chose homemade almond milk today. 

I am just perplexed my son reacted too which is the concerning thing to me. From the research I've done and your suggestions it's best we remove the product from our list of potential items for it clearly is not a match.

have a good day

[Jmg]

Hope you're feeling better soon Awol

On fruit juice this:

2 hours ago, cyclinglady said:

We rarely drink orange juice.  Why?  Because it is full of fructose which is not bad, but you would probably never sit down and eat more than 2 oranges in one sitting.  Makes you wonder why diabetes is so prevalent.  The other reason is laziness.  I have citrus trees and juicing them takes time and work.  I reserve that for special occasions.  

Citrus is acidic.  It can be harsh on a damaged gut.   My non-celiac kid actually gets hives from eating too many oranges.  Moderation can be a good thing.  

Consider getting your vitamin C by eating fruit and not juice.   

is how I feel. Orange juice is marketed as one of the healthiest things you can have but the reality is that it's a concentrated dose of sugar that hits the bloodstream without any fibre to slow down digestion. Try eating 5 oranges and you'll give up quickly, but you can easily drink the juice from them and more.  Fruit juice causes a spike in insulin which can lead to a sugar crash. Used to happen to me mid morning till I stopped drinking fruit juice. It's not even that high in Vitamin C, if you're eating some veggies each day you probably have all you need of that in your diet already in any case.

Now I have fruit juice on special occasions, its no longer a regular part of my diet. To be honest when I do it often tastes unbearably sweet and I'm tempted to water it down. A habit worth breaking in my view.

[Awol cast iron stomach]

Thanks for the well wishes Jmg. It appears that you & cycling lady think the sugar maybe our issue, let me clarify that's not our issue for it is manifesting as one of our additive intolerance exposure symptoms. One both my son and I have discovered over 2016. It's not a sugar crash type or a gi symptom in our case . But excellent info for consideration for others.

My concern was about additives not listed on a label which is currently not required by regulations and the havoc it can cause the consumer .It's a clear cut symptom we get when exposed to a corn derived additive. At this juncture we are possibly sensitive to a highly processed flavor or coloring from a source other than corn that would be helpful to know what that source is per label  . That's where transparency in labeling would be helpful to me and others like me. The links I included on my post reflect concerns by others out on the web  to this concept. The food diary is helpful and has been to us in discovering these sensitivity issues, but not ideal when not all additives are labeled.

the label says 100 percent juice but my body says otherwise . I am well aware from personal job exposure that the food industry is not required to list every ingredient particularly if it is not a top 8 allergean which is why I went look for the info to share.

As you both pointed out and maybe even helped to bring to light the importance of sugar labeling my dream is to see it a step further with additives.

 

 

 

[squirmingitch]

KALE! It really is a super food. Lots of Vit C as well as other vitamins & minerals. Now I know you wanted something to drink but I'm just saying kale is hard to beat for nutrition. You can add it to liquids but yes, it does tend to have a strong flavor.

As far as OJ goes, I rarely ever drink it & that includes pre-diagnosis. Every time I have tried bought OJ, it just turns me off, doesn't taste good. Actually it tastes fake to me. I did grow up where citrus grows & we were always eating oranges right off the tree or squeezing them for fresh OJ. It's hard to appreciate the store bought stuff when your palate knows the real thing.

[Jmg]

2 hours ago, Awol cast iron stomach said:

Thanks for the well wishes Jmg. It appears that you & cycling lady think the sugar maybe our issue

 Sorry it probably did read like that but I was just rambling! Ignore me

 

[cyclinglady]

I am sorry too.  I did not mean to imply that you have a sugar issue (though it may contribute to our obesity problem, but that is another debate).  I do not think that is the cause of your symptoms.  I brought it up because the American Academy of Pediatrics just issued this on juice for infants, toddlers and adolescents:

Open Original Shared Link

We all have unique intolerances.  My kid can not drink orange juice beyond a 1/2 cup.  That is about the equivalent of two oranges.  Too much juice and she gets an allergic reaction -- itchy hives all over her body.  Yet, she can eat two oranges in her lunch everyday -- just not a full cup of orange juice, processed or fresh.   Me?  I tolerate it just fine, if only I could tolerate garlic!!!!!!

i hope you feel better soon. 

 

[knitty kitty]

Hi there!  

I follow a low histamine diet that Cycling Lady brought to my attention a long time ago.  Citrus fruits and their juices are histamine releasing foods.  High histamine levels can cause hives just like in an allergic reaction.  Here's a helpful site:  

Open Original Shared Link

I don't drink orange juice because because of the hives and stomach upset I get from it, and also because I'm type two diabetic and my system can't handle all the sugars in it.  High glucose contributes to inflammation.

I also avoid things with added flavors and scents because they often contain sulfur components like sulfites or sulfates.  Corn products are often processed with sulfuric acid.  Some Celiacs, like me, develop a sulfite sensitivity.  Here's a helpful site: 

Open Original Shared Link

Garlic and onions are high in sulfites.  People who can't tolerate foods high in sulfites are often deficient in a trace mineral, molybdenum.  Molybdenum is also involved in blood production.  Here's another site: 

Open Original Shared Link

So, there's not always a simple answer.  I'm leary of processed foods because you don't really know how they're processed and what really goes into them.  I'd rather stick to fresh foods.  Hope this helps.

[Awol cast iron stomach]

Thank you everyone. Jmg & cycling lady sorry for being snippy . I appreciate your help just frustrated. sorry if I am a bit snippy. Not well as you sense. I hate this particular symptom/ reaction.

The gluten challenge opened the door to a bunch of  symptoms I buried for 3 1/2 gluten-free years that I had no intention of waking again. I now know it's always been immune and food, but get frustrated over the the amount of time it has not been diagnosed it feels unjust and that most Dr still don't get it 38 years later. 

It was reborn after my gluten challenge and I am beyond sad we discovered my DS has this too. As we removed my allergens from the house and my DS was off the foods, if he ate something at school or a friends (because we just removed it for mom) we quickly found and he that he's like mom. He looks like dads mini me but more handsome, but has moms food issues -yikes.  His ped Dr would not test him for celiac or refer him and does not understand food intolerances vs IgE allergies. when we ask for a prescription for allergen free Advil or Tylenol ( I found a compounding  pharamacy willing to work with us) he had ortho work done , she tells us she does not know how to write a prescription for that. 

 We really don't like reactions and it did say 100 percent juice and quite frankly we believed it.  The histamine  definetly a potential issue as sulphites does not seem consistent food diary wise. I am not sure what is going on. More likely we are celiacs with leaky guts manifesting as food sensitivities trying to heal. I just know I have more intolerances then when I went in. I went into the challenge not being able to eat gluten and came out with all heck breaking lose.  I quit my PT job so I can Prep and cook from scratch entirely growing all my own herbs etc trying to heal. My husband actually enjoys our food even more and tolerates the "woman he married being gone and replaced by this alien" my words not his. He does want me to heal, believes I will, so he can have his wife back. I question if I just have to accept who I am now. I am disheartened that it's slow to heal and despite my years of this undiagnosed garbage I can't get my son the help he needs in 2017!

thanks for letting me rant. It was stupid to believe a processed juice maker I'm waiting to activate my water kefir colony so we can add something to our homemade almond milk and water options.

 

thanks for letting me rant and why do I still have to rant.

 

maybe the 43 years of frustration and anger of being an undiagnosed celiac.

 

so sorry y'all. Cranky few days

 

[Jmg]

23 minutes ago, Awol cast iron stomach said:

Thank you everyone. Jmg & cycling lady sorry for being snippy

Absolutely nothing to apologise for Awol. I'm sorry for getting on my sugar hobby horse. In any case I'm a dreadful hypocrite, cutting out fruit juice but still indulging cravings for gluten-free cheesecakes and the like

I wish I had some advice for you. Bone broth helped me, I think it can help leaky gut, maybe worth a try?  Dr Fasano's diet could be another option?

[Ennis-TX]

1 hour ago, Awol cast iron stomach said:

Thank you everyone. Jmg & cycling lady sorry for being snippy . I appreciate your help just frustrated. sorry if I am a bit snippy. Not well as you sense. I hate this particular symptom/ reaction.

The gluten challenge opened the door to a bunch of  symptoms I buried for 3 1/2 gluten-free years that I had no intention of waking again. I now know it's always been immune and food, but get frustrated over the the amount of time it has not been diagnosed it feels unjust and that most Dr still don't get it 38 years later. 

It was reborn after my gluten challenge and I am beyond sad we discovered my DS has this too. As we removed my allergens from the house and my DS was off the foods, if he ate something at school or a friends (because we just removed it for mom) we quickly found and he that he's like mom. He looks like dads mini me but more handsome, but has moms food issues -yikes.  His ped Dr would not test him for celiac or refer him and does not understand food intolerances vs IgE allergies. when we ask for a prescription for allergen free Advil or Tylenol ( I found a compounding  pharamacy willing to work with us) he had ortho work done , she tells us she does not know how to write a prescription for that. 

 We really don't like reactions and it did say 100 percent juice and quite frankly we believed it.  The histamine  definetly a potential issue as sulphites does not seem consistent food diary wise. I am not sure what is going on. More likely we are celiacs with leaky guts manifesting as food sensitivities trying to heal. I just know I have more intolerances then when I went in. I went into the challenge not being able to eat gluten and came out with all heck breaking lose.  I quit my PT job so I can Prep and cook from scratch entirely growing all my own herbs etc trying to heal. My husband actually enjoys our food even more and tolerates the "woman he married being gone and replaced by this alien" my words not his. He does want me to heal, believes I will, so he can have his wife back. I question if I just have to accept who I am now. I am disheartened that it's slow to heal and despite my years of this undiagnosed garbage I can't get my son the help he needs in 2017!

thanks for letting me rant. It was stupid to believe a processed juice maker I'm waiting to activate my water kefir colony so we can add something to our homemade almond milk and water options.

 

thanks for letting me rant and why do I still have to rant.

 

maybe the 43 years of frustration and anger of being an undiagnosed celiac.

 

so sorry y'all. Cranky few days

 

Yeah the histamine thing hit home a bit for me, as it mentioned everyone has their upper limits on it...explains why green canned fresh tomatoes fine...overly ripe sweet ones....instant puking, and why I have to really limit anything the citric acid, lemon, lime, garlic, onion, etc to very small amounts. Sorta funny how that works. like everything has a invisible number and if they add up to above my limit I am puking Makes eating annoying sometimes lol. 

OH bit of a thought, I RARELY make almond milk cause it leaves a almond paste behind that I only have one use for and if sales at the bakery are bad I am better off just buying the stuff at the store and drinking in moderation. ANYWAY I use the almond paste mixed with coconut flour, left over almond butter batches, xylitol, apple sauce, and a tsp of a extract of choice to make the almond butter mini muffins for my bakery. They are a bit of a product of recycled foods lol. Taste great, super moist, grain free, mostly sugar free, and I can eat them no problems...they also freeze for months.   Love making them with our pirate butter (butter rum), Cheese cake butter (dairy free cheese cake extract in the almond butter) or any of the others for that matter.

 

[Awol cast iron stomach]

Oh goodness me so do you guys bother to get histamine level diagnosed or do you just treat it as you did the food diary ? taking note of high histamine time of year/ season and diet into your seasonal food diet? I'm pretty good at rotating foods I've done that longer than I've known about my issues from a nutritional standpoint I rotated which is why until the gluten challenge derailed my immune system entirely.

it was challenging enough to do that gluten challenge I am not really up for more testing. I have symptoms of IC, POTS, fibromyalgia, and now you reveal that yes histamine threshold are part of the celiac autoimmune party bag too.

how do all branches of medicine not find this group the most intriguing group of people ever? Really?Or Do you just all avoid them and go on your merry way?

Ennis - what almond milk can you drink ?

the almond milk 3 we tried/ bought prior to making my own (had unlabeled ingredient  fortified and thickeners corn derived added. ) I was shocked to call and discover it had it in (not labeled as it was corn not top 8) it finally explained why the right elbow joint hurt but it was a small enough derived amount of derived  corn not to trigger the Full blast corn intolerance symptoms.

For this reason and now the orange juice incident I'm really leery of unidentified corn or corn derivatives or highly processed any additive for they are prevalent in processed land.

 

[Ennis-TX]

46 minutes ago, Awol cast iron stomach said:

Oh goodness me so do you guys bother to get histamine level diagnosed or do you just treat it as you did the food diary ? taking note of high histamine time of year/ season and diet into your seasonal food diet? I'm pretty good at rotating foods I've done that longer than I've known about my issues from a nutritional standpoint I rotated which is why until the gluten challenge derailed my immune system entirely.

it was challenging enough to do that gluten challenge I am not really up for more testing. I have symptoms of IC, POTS, fibromyalgia, and now you reveal that yes histamine threshold are part of the celiac autoimmune party bag too.

how do all branches of medicine not find this group the most intriguing group of people ever? Really?Or Do you just all avoid them and go on your merry way?

Ennis - what almond milk can you drink ?

the almond milk 3 we tried/ bought prior to making my own (had unlabeled ingredient  fortified and thickeners corn derived added. ) I was shocked to call and discover it had it in (not labeled as it was corn not top 8) it finally explained why the right elbow joint hurt but it was a small enough derived amount of derived  corn not to trigger the Full blast corn intolerance symptoms.

For this reason and now the orange juice incident I'm really leery of unidentified corn or corn derivatives or highly processed any additive for they are prevalent in processed land.

 

HEB organics does not bother me at all. Their plain one has to be boiled before I can drink it so I tend to use it in moderation in cooking...it also has xantham gum which explained that issue. MALK gives me no issues (Local Only Brand I think). Used to drink something called Mooala but could not find it unsweetened after my UC dia.  Almond Breeze is next up but I can only drink about a cup of it before I start getting burping issues, silk bothers me the least but still causes some issues. Silk cashew is alright and I use it all the time with NO issues at all...but I use it in cooking and do not think I have ever used it without boiling it first either in a icecream base or mixing it in a soup, cheese sauce, or adding a bit to eggs for fluff.   Hmm there is one other brand of macadamia milk that dose not bother me and Good Karma Flax milk I have NO issues with....been a good 6 months since I had any though.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

^ Two that give me the least issues

 

[knitty kitty]

Here's a link that discusses Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (histamine intolerance) and recommended tests. 

Open Original Shared Link

This article explains how POTS is related to MCAS.

Open Original Shared Link

"In another clinical situation, Shibao et al. and colleagues studied a small cohort of patients who had evidence of mast cell activation as evidenced by elevated urine levels of N-methylhistamine after flushing episodes and who had orthostatic intolerance (Open Original Shared Link). Detailed studies revealed a profound hyperadrenergic response to standing characterized by tachycardia and hypertension consistent with postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, or POTS. This phenomenon is felt to be due the release of vasoactive mediators such as histamine that act locally on sympathetic nerves; autonomic function was assessed to be normal in these patients. The authors have used methyldopa, an alpha-adrenergic agonist, with some success in these patients along with standard medications to block mast cell mediators. They caution against the use of beta-blockers, which may exacerbate mast cell activation."

 

Vitamin and mineral deficiencies often occur with Celiac Disease.  Celiac Disease causes malabsorption which results in malnutrition.  It's important to correct nutritional deficiencies after a Celiac Crisis like you endured with your gluten challenge.  

Vitamin D is so important!  Vitamin D tells the mast cells to turn off histamine production.  

Open Original Shared Link

Vitamins C and E and B6 help, too.

Open Original Shared Link

The eight B vitamins are water soluble and need to be replenished every day.  Not enough B vitamins can make one grouchy (or seemingly an alien).  Just watch "Naked and Afraid" on Discovery channel.  The contestants who don't get protein (chock full of B vitamins) get grouchy, depressed, and irritable.  Some contestants have to be removed because their personality changes to the point they become dangerous.  This is a drastic example of vitamin deficiencies that develop over a short period of time, three weeks.  Now imagine having a subclinical deficiency over a long period and a slower health disintegration.  

I lost my faith in doctors when my deficiency diseases were not recognized and addressed.  So, I used my food journal and the low histamine diet guidelines to get my inflammation down and my vitamins and minerals up. 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

[Awol cast iron stomach]

All great info everyone. Based on continued pattern my husband suspects  I got cc because it's my gluten dark cloud words coming out this week. It's my typical gluten delayed fallout. I have a plethora of symptoms immediate, intermediate, and delayed. I know the company would  be very upset/ defensive for me to allude to cc based on gmp' s etc. I'm not naive the food industry has tons of areas of cc from farm, transport, production, share lines , storage etc. We are gluten, corn, and cow milk free household . Except for DD gluten-free pizza and cheese individual wrapped for school. My son and I were able to have some before no problems and we both reacted to this particular bottle.

Nonetheless my husband said Awol when's you next accupuncture appointment?  your gluten cc dark cloud mood is back! I actually have characteristic thoughts ,words , phrases days later we now know are gluten fall out cc. Bizarre.

I have in past read those links on histamine as you all say. Jury still out. Although it tends to not be solidly supported by only food in my experience I do have a low threshold for totality of allergens including Mcs and pollen (season) when I'm gluten damaged. I am very vulnerable to keeping all those plates in the air until my gut heals. My self induced gluten-free years showed massive Mcs and outdoor allergens increased threshold improvements. Gluten challenge ripped off  the filter (damaged gut) and well my mcs and lowered threshold environmental allergens are back, in the past 10 months my dog allergy" is back which Dr s revealed is not a true igE allergy just one that pops up with gluten gut damage and dog salvia exposure. I don't own  one just pet community dogs. I stop petting friends dogs etc during my damaged phase.  My cats went grain free for mom and  actually lady cat is healthier herself. Boy cat is just himself. It's been a very long 10 months.

Husband brought home oranges, and other citrus ,I seem to be ok. So between his citrus test and my gluten mood appearing he wants me to keep that accupuncture Appointment this week for I'm acting cc. My threshold is trigger light and I actually react to an unintentional cc processed item . Yes I'm an idiot I was too lazy to pull   out the juicier  I did make fresh later and husband disposed of offending bottle of oj.

Haven't tried flax milk. May try later, right now I  make homemade nut milk. Thanks for tip.

Vitamins you nailed it. I am a past test verified vitamin d deficient gal. My gluten challenge fall out caused me to react to all my old standby supplements (corn derivatives reactions are new since 2016 ) so it's been a challenge to replace them.

Keep your fingers crossed I'm now on water keifer as my probiotic, (I reacted to my beloved probiotic and can't find a gluten-free,c.f.,milk derivative free replacement ) , I finally found a supplement I can take after a tough 10 months, and I went through 3 vitamin d' s until  I found one I don't react to. Many of the supplements you forum members have in boards (i frantically read the old posts) are a miss for me

I do have to tackle the homemade bone broth I know. This time around healing is painfully s l o w . Your post is of course divine.

Thanks again everyone until next time.

 

[Awol cast iron stomach]

On 7/21/2017 at 5:08 PM, Ennis_TX said:

Yeah the histamine thing hit home a bit for me, as it mentioned everyone has their upper limits on it...explains why green canned fresh tomatoes fine...overly ripe sweet ones....instant puking, and why I have to really limit anything the citric acid, lemon, lime, garlic, onion, etc to very small amounts. Sorta funny how that works. like everything has a invisible number and if they add up to above my limit I am puking Makes eating annoying sometimes lol. 

OH bit of a thought, I RARELY make almond milk cause it leaves a almond paste behind that I only have one use for and if sales at the bakery are bad I am better off just buying the stuff at the store and drinking in moderation. ANYWAY I use the almond paste mixed with coconut flour, left over almond butter batches, xylitol, apple sauce, and a tsp of a extract of choice to make the almond butter mini muffins for my bakery. They are a bit of a product of recycled foods lol. Taste great, super moist, grain free, mostly sugar free, and I can eat them no problems...they also freeze for months.   Love making them with our pirate butter (butter rum), Cheese cake butter (dairy free cheese cake extract in the almond butter) or any of the others for that matter.

 

I keep having your recipes on the to do list. Do you have a direct link? Or just in recipe section? My husband just bought me a dehydrator so  I am dehydrating the left over almond pulp after making milk and using food processor to make it into a fine powder. I saw it on pinetrist. I used it for coating squid for homemade calamari as I needed to create a version for my kids. As I heal I have to replace / reinvent the favs. They will eat unbreaded squid but they like the occasional breaded gluten-free treat.  I have to explore more with it and some say the byproduct pulp loses nutrition,  but I freeze the pulp until I have several  bags to dehydrate to explore this home milk byproduct.

I think  I have to tackle homemade bone broth next, work on healing more, slow process errgh, then I'm looking to Ennis Tx inspiration and recipes your nut and cheese substitute based creations. You sound quite talented and have made your celiac into a niche culinary career. I wish you best of luck on your continued business success.

 

 

[Awol cast iron stomach]

On 7/21/2017 at 7:02 PM, Ennis_TX said:

HEB organics does not bother me at all. Their plain one has to be boiled before I can drink it so I tend to use it in moderation in cooking...it also has xantham gum which explained that issue. MALK gives me no issues (Local Only Brand I think). Used to drink something called Mooala but could not find it unsweetened after my UC dia.  Almond Breeze is next up but I can only drink about a cup of it before I start getting burping issues, silk bothers me the least but still causes some issues. Silk cashew is alright and I use it all the time with NO issues at all...but I use it in cooking and do not think I have ever used it without boiling it first either in a icecream base or mixing it in a soup, cheese sauce, or adding a bit to eggs for fluff.   Hmm there is one other brand of macadamia milk that dose not bother me and Good Karma Flax milk I have NO issues with....been a good 6 months since I had any though.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

^ Two that give me the least issues

 

Thanks for the links. I haven't explored the flax yet. Something I'll keep on the list. I've followed a paleo/whole 30 like diet for months now only occasionally testing a brand product since I seemed to have a highly reactive immune system post gluten challenge, so I have not ventured into the soup , dairy free cheese sauce arena yet. Hoping to try some more in the fall when kids back at school and crock pot weather arrives.