Question for those avoiding dairy (casein)?

[Jmg]

I have very slowly come to the conclusion that I have a problem with casein.  This is despite being years into the gluten free life and having mostly avoided dairy for a long time. I say mostly because although I would never have had milk in a coffee or with cereal etc. I didn't worry too much if milk was listed in the ingredients of some gluten free processed treat or deny myself the odd milk chocolate if there was one handy. After all my reasoning would go, I deserve it for eschewing all the nice gluten things... 

I also hadn't given milk too much thought. I think I just thought I was probably lactose intolerant like my father. However although last time I had a fair amount of milk I got the lactose intolerance stomach signs I also got spots on my chest and back a couple of days later. I think, don't know, but think, my issues with dairy may extend to the casein protein rather than just the lactose. 

Well I've now had enough of my skin issues which I think are strongly linked to milk so I'm now on a new quest to try and remove dairy completely and finding it a little bit of a struggle. I hadn't realised how many of the nice gluten-free foods also contain milk.

So I wondered how strict I have to be where casein is concerned. If you have an issue with it and avoid it, do you have to treat it in the same way you would gluten? Is a tiny amount in processed food enough for you to react? Should I get rid of any biscuits etc I have in which have milk listed as an ingredient? Does it matter if the ingredient is butter which I understand to have much lower casein content?

What's the deal with casein?  

[Ennis-TX]

I have lactose intolerance and a apparent allergy to whey, I used to have a issue with casein early on, where it made my autism worse. But I have it in ONE brand of gluten free, and lactose free cheese I eat and I see no issues anymore.....but any bit of other forms of milk be it whey or lactose and I get those nice pimple like bumps on my chest and back, I assume this is what your talking about.

IF you need help finding anything dairy free....I am damn good at it.....hell I just discovered how to turn my cheese sauce recipes into dairy free cheese wheel yesterday lol.

[Jmg]

17 hours ago, Ennis_TX said:

I have lactose intolerance and a apparent allergy to whey, I used to have a issue with casein early on, where it made my autism worse. But I have it in ONE brand of gluten free, and lactose free cheese I eat and I see no issues anymore.....but any bit of other forms of milk be it whey or lactose and I get those nice pimple like bumps on my chest and back, I assume this is what your talking about.

IF you need help finding anything dairy free....I am damn good at it.....hell I just discovered how to turn my cheese sauce recipes into dairy free cheese wheel yesterday lol.

Thanks Ennis, you're a star when it comes to finding alternatives.

You are spot on also about the pimple bumps on chest and back. I also get them on the back of my scalp and in the past on groin too which wasn't great. They were just one part of the many things I lived with before the great discovery and they've cleared up considerably under the gluten-free diet, but never fully went away. Recently after eating a gluten-free sponge pudding I realised that my breath was short and that I was wheezing and I realised that my 'generally avoiding' milk' wasn't the same as NOT HAVING ANY BECAUSE I CAN'T. So I began to put two and two together once again. I guess I was hoping someone would come along and say "Don't worry about it Matt, a little bit of milk in a pizza etc isn't going to do you any harm' when of course I think the true answer is probably:

and stop eating stuff which is clearly not good for you...

It's a bummer though. Someone bought me a New York cheesecake which is about the best that gluten-free gets over here. I have some Xmas cakes as well with it in. I don't want to lose any more foods and am on the verge of throwing a tantrum which is not a good look for a 40 something man... 

[GFinDC]

Hi JMG,

I've found a little dairy is too much dairy.  It just doesn't work well for me. But there are alternatives like almond milk or coconut milk that are available now.  But it's kinda like gluten.  Once you start hating it you won't miss it anymore.

And yep, they put it in a lot of foods too.

[Ennis-TX]

1 hour ago, Jmg said:

It's a bummer though. Someone bought me a New York cheesecake which is about the best that gluten-free gets over here. I have some Xmas cakes as well with it in. I don't want to lose any more foods and am on the verge of throwing a tantrum which is not a good look for a 40 something man... 

Dayia makes a gluten free and dairy free cheese cake I think, LorrAnn Oils makes dairy free and gluten free cheese cake extract which you can add to almond milk puddings, porridge, icings, dairy free yogurt etc for all the glory. I personally make my own,,,not even close to as rich and glorious as the real thing but fits with my additional issues. I use my pie crust recipe with almond flour for the crust, use full fat coconut milk, 1/4 cup lakanto maple, 1-2tbsp agar agar, stevia, monkfruit extract, and 2tsp of the cheesecake extract to make a coconut cheese cake. you blend the filling ingredients put in a blender simmer to a boil constantly stiring in a pot then pour over the crust and place in the freeze for 8-24 hours to firm up, tech you could add say keylime extract and make a keylime pie. If you try this give me a heads up on your thoughts, it seems less then perfect when I do it.
Open Original Shared Link
Open Original Shared Link

OH fun fact I stopped buying diary free yogurt and starting making my own. warm up some almond/cashew/coconut milk in a mason jar so it is just around 98F ish. and dump in 2-3 50billion plus probiotic capsules (open them up and dump in the powder) stir in well, and cover with a cheese cloth to allow the gasses to escape, they curd it up into a yougurt in the next 24-48 hours in the fridge. Same process but you can avoid all the BS that other companies put in the store bought stuff.

[Awol cast iron stomach]

The casein makes my muscles and joints ache. I realized it was casein not lactose when we got a lactose free cheese with milk casein added. 

Ouch

we were determine food diary wise what was up with my husband and my son.

my son is like me . We do almond milk.

my husband can do sheep cheese but not anything from cow. 

I did daiya a bit but for some darn reason the store that carries it near me has the daiya with corn added. The customer service rep explained as Ennis does that some would be a match in the product line but just not the ones my store carries.

I have been going without but need to make some alternative from an Ennis nut recipe soon. My daughter wants a Mac and cheese alternative. 

Good luck figuring it out.

I think sometimes my husband wants me to test if I'm still intolerant as I ate cow cheese before my gluten challenge, but I am a only a few months from joint pain and too scared to have it flare  again. 

So I stick with almond and coconut.

[Posterboy]

On 12/8/2017 at 11:15 AM, Jmg said:

I have very slowly come to the conclusion that I have a problem with casein.  This is despite being years into the gluten free life and having mostly avoided dairy for a long time. I say mostly because although I would never have had milk in a coffee or with cereal etc. I didn't worry too much if milk was listed in the ingredients of some gluten free processed treat or deny myself the odd milk chocolate if there was one handy. After all my reasoning would go, I deserve it for eschewing all the nice gluten things... 

I also hadn't given milk too much thought. I think I just thought I was probably lactose intolerant like my father. However although last time I had a fair amount of milk I got the lactose intolerance stomach signs I also got spots on my chest and back a couple of days later. I think, don't know, but think, my issues with dairy may extend to the casein protein rather than just the lactose. 

Well I've now had enough of my skin issues which I think are strongly linked to milk so I'm now on a new quest to try and remove dairy completely and finding it a little bit of a struggle. I hadn't realised how many of the nice gluten-free foods also contain milk.

So I wondered how strict I have to be where casein is concerned. If you have an issue with it and avoid it, do you have to treat it in the same way you would gluten? Is a tiny amount in processed food enough for you to react? Should I get rid of any biscuits etc I have in which have milk listed as an ingredient? Does it matter if the ingredient is butter which I understand to have much lower casein content?

What's the deal with casein?  

Jmg,

On 12/8/2017 at 11:15 AM, Jmg said:

What's the deal with casein?

Here is a nice thread where Ennis_tx has posted many dairy free link/resources in case you have not read this thread yet.

Also to answer  your main question about Casein and as Awol noted about their being a difference about lactose and casein since lactose free cheese can still cause problems.

See these livestrong links that summarizes the difference between lactose and casein and why it is usually the casein most people react too.

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

I would also review your medicine's.  I had a bad reaction to my BP medicine Losartan causing my dairy allergy to resurface.

after 6 weeks off it my villi seems to be able to tolerate dairy again.

I hope this is helpful and I hope you find out what is causing you your dairy problems.

A little testing should help you determine if it the casein or the lactose in the dairy is the problem.

Lactaid can help with the lactose problem.  Or as Awol noted try a lactose free cheese to see if dairy still bother's you . . . then it might the casein or check your medicine's as it was in my case causing my dairy problem.

People do grow out of a dairy problem often.  . . so don't give up on it entirely.

Check back in 6 months and see if your villi have healed.   Mine did.

I had a terrible milk allergy as a kid but grew out of it in time.  Thanks be to God.

But do check your medicine (if you  take any) their might be something else ( that have taken for granite is safe) that might be causing unknown villi blunting as the Losartan did/was causing in my cause . . . causing my dairy allergy to flare back up.

****this is not medical advice only my experience after recognizing my BP medicine Losartan had caused  Villi blunting issues leading to my dairy allergy.

I hope you find some of this information helpful and hang in there you can get better from a dairy allergy.

I have from changing my medicine to a non-blunting medicine.

posterboy,

 

[Feeneyja]

Yep, me too. After my gluten challenge, I had terrible anxiety (I was close to going to the doctor for it but didn’t want meds), and joint pain I that wouldn’t go away.  Also some dizziness/eye focus thing. Actually, my husband thinks I’ve had the anxiety for some time and the challenge just pushed me over the edge food tolerance wise. I took out milk and the anxiety went away (the kids and hubby noticed).

My daughter, who is also gluten intolerant (lots of scary neurological symptoms...and she’s only 11) has had joint pain and joint rashes that her pediatrician has diagnosed as psoriasis. We both started the Autoimmune Protocol Diet (AIP) to encourage healing and get to the bottom of food sensitivities (no to grains, dairy, eggs, nightshades, nuts & seeds; yes to lots of nutrient dense foods that encourage gut healing). BAM, her breathing problems and joint pain are gone and the rash is SO much better. Almost gone completely (she has had it for years).  My joint pain also went away.  

I have another daughter (8 years old) who has had lactose intolerance symptoms but one day when having milk it made her immediately throw up. Happened again with kefir.  

So all three of us cut the milk pretty strictly. I cook with coconut milk and use coconut milk in my tea.  I keep cheese and milk in the house for the rest of the crew (the lucky ones who can eat anything).  We use cross contamination protection measures.   Eggs are also a problem for me and the 11 year old, so we got a separate egg-free cooking pan.  It’s not as bad as with gluten.  We both have been very sensitive to cross contamination there.  But it’s just tricky getting egg and cheese residue off your favorite pans.

Going AIP has been extremely helpful in finally feeling better after my gluten challenge (6 months now since the dreaded challenge).  It also has helped me find foods and recipes that are nutrient dense, and don’t rely on those problematic foods like milk, eggs, and nuts.  Google AIP recipes.  There are some terrific one out there.  My husband just remarked that the food is better than ever.  After the holidays we will begin the careful reintroduction process to see just which foods get the thumbs up or thumbs down or if there are things that can be eaten in moderation.

When you can’t have something, it suddenly becomes the thing you crave.  But it’s totally doable. I’m still amazed after all this time at how good (or bad) certain foods can make you feel. 

[TrinaP]

I have been Celiac diagnosed since 2015 and I found when I was first diagnosed I seemed to bloat a lot from a large amount of dairy. After taking it out for 6 months I tried to reintroduce it (drinking glasses of milk) and it didn't go well. I'm fine with yogurt, cheese and other things but not in large amounts. I recently started looking into this casein thing as a friend's sister told me about the casein found in corn which can cause people with Celiac disease problems (I was having problems with the gluten-free corn made pastas especially). I also noticed that when I ate homemade freezer corn (my favorite) I would pay for it for three days with full on water diarrhea. I have since stopped eating corn pastas and corn itself and I don't have the issues anymore so I'm linking it to the casein. It's so hard to know what is causing problems and what the symptoms/signs a Celiac has are related to...so frustrating sometimes!!!

[kareng]

1 minute ago, TrinaP said:

I have been Celiac diagnosed since 2015 and I found when I was first diagnosed I seemed to bloat a lot from a large amount of dairy. After taking it out for 6 months I tried to reintroduce it (drinking glasses of milk) and it didn't go well. I'm fine with yogurt, cheese and other things but not in large amounts. I recently started looking into this casein thing as a friend's sister told me about the casein found in corn which can cause people with Celiac disease problems (I was having problems with the gluten-free corn made pastas especially). I also noticed that when I ate homemade freezer corn (my favorite) I would pay for it for three days with full on water diarrhea. I have since stopped eating corn pastas and corn itself and I don't have the issues anymore so I'm linking it to the casein. It's so hard to know what is causing problems and what the symptoms/signs a Celiac has are related to...so frustrating sometimes!!!

casein is milk protein - it is not in corn.

 

Lots of people with Celiac have a problem digesting lactose.  That might be why a high lactose thing like milk bothers you... but a low lactose yogurt does not.

[Jmg]

So a big thank you to everyone that's responded. I'll confess I was hoping someone was going to post something along these lines:

Quote

So I'm a world famous Professor and I've conducted a peer reviewed, double blind study that proves that milk in a nice cheesecake is not a problem. The deliciousness particle which I've discovered negates the milk protein. This also works for the Christmas puddings you've bought and for occasional milk containing treats including gluten-free pizza and Cadbury's Dairy Milk chocolate.  

But no-one did.  Instead you've posted some very good, sensible advice which makes a lot of sense to me. I've since read online that trace amounts, such as you'd find I guess in these kind of treats are not allowed.

The good news is that I think I'm feeling better since I went stricter and my skin is improved. The rash on my chest is almost gone and the bumps on the back of the scalp are much improved. It's not itchy either. I'm also feeling a little happier and not as gloomy. So I'm wondering if it's been having an effect on my mental health too... So I think my path forward is obvious, I have to cut it out like I did gluten, no exceptions. There are lots of gluten-free treats that don't contain milk now so it's not the end of the world, just a further reduction in choice. 

Although I'll save the strictest approach for January so I can enjoy Christmas dinner and that pudding which I've been looking forward to so much. I'll monitor to see if the skin issues come back and that will be a final test. 

[Ennis-TX]

1 hour ago, Jmg said:

So a big thank you to everyone that's responded. I'll confess I was hoping someone was going to post something along these lines:

But no-one did.  Instead you've posted some very good, sensible advice which makes a lot of sense to me. I've since read online that trace amounts, such as you'd find I guess in these kind of treats are not allowed.

The good news is that I think I'm feeling better since I went stricter and my skin is improved. The rash on my chest is almost gone and the bumps on the back of the scalp are much improved. It's not itchy either. I'm also feeling a little happier and not as gloomy. So I'm wondering if it's been having an effect on my mental health too... So I think my path forward is obvious, I have to cut it out like I did gluten, no exceptions. There are lots of gluten-free treats that don't contain milk now so it's not the end of the world, just a further reduction in choice. 

Although I'll save the strictest approach for January so I can enjoy Christmas dinner and that pudding which I've been looking forward to so much. I'll monitor to see if the skin issues come back and that will be a final test. 

Plenty of ways to make it just subbing almond milk, or super creamy cashew milk, for full fat recipes use culinary full fat coconut milk for whip creams etc. SO many dairy free options now days lol.

[Jmg]

Just now, Ennis_TX said:

Plenty of ways to make it just subbing almond milk, or super creamy cashew milk, for full fat recipes use culinary full fat coconut milk for whip creams etc. SO many dairy free options now days lol.

I know, it's fabulous what alternatives are out there,  I use almond, rice, soy milks, haven't had cows milk on its own or in tea coffee etc for years. I prefer the coconut milk I have on cereal now to any that I used to have. I've recently discovered Alpro soy yoghourt and its really nice, so your point above about making my own is getting me thinking! 

Unfortunately my achilles heel is that I'm nowhere near your level as a chef. I make a small amount of dishes but I don't bake much and so I've come to rely on gluten free processed foods. Both as a treat and as a convenience. 

The milk I've been having has mainly been in chocolate bars, biscuits, cakes, crisps (chips if you must), all of which are probably bad for me in any case and which I should learn to live without. It's just, #Stamps feet I don't want to

It's that other layer of label reading, question asking, choices being reduced still further, that I'm railing against. In part because if I'm out and about a safe gluten free milk chocolate bar is one of the go to foods if I'm hungry. But also cause I like the taste and they're priced at regular food eaters prices... 

Unlike when I gave up gluten however there's not an overwhelming health signal helping me get to the mental place that GFinDC is talking about here:

On 12/9/2017 at 1:07 PM, GFinDC said:

I've found a little dairy is too much dairy.  It just doesn't work well for me. But there are alternatives like almond milk or coconut milk that are available now.  But it's kinda like gluten.  Once you start hating it you won't miss it anymore.

And yep, they put it in a lot of foods too.

I just thought I needed to avoid it, but it's getting to that point where I realise I CANNOT HAVE ANY MILK period, that's the trick I need to master. However the good mood I'm feeling is starting to get me thinking, maybe this is impacting me in more ways than my skin. If it's causing depression then it definitely has to go! I think I may be doing another food diary and a better diet in January. I've already filled a bag full of delicious, milk containing foods to separate them from the rest.

 

[Ennis-TX]

2 hours ago, Jmg said:

It's that other layer of label reading, question asking, choices being reduced still further, that I'm railing against. In part because if I'm out and about a safe gluten free milk chocolate bar is one of the go to foods if I'm hungry. But also cause I like the taste and they're priced at regular food eaters prices... 

...Keep meal bars like Kind, and Julian Bakery, pretty sure you can amazon order them and I know luckyvitamin ships international, on that note, I just found some dairy free vegan and sugar free chocolate bars on Luckyvitamin. Lilly's Makes many different kinds I am mainly getting for my mother since she was just dia. a type 1 diabetic this year and is missing chocolate.....she also does not admit it but has obvious issues with dairy. I am personally getting myself some Lakanto Sugar free and dairy free chocolate bars this year. I know there is a huge thing right now of new dairy free milk chocolate bars made with rice milk sweeping out.....do not see why they do not use nut milk but one thing to consider.
Also you might want to tone it down on soy, my old dietician I had years ago told me to get off it before it started even giving me problems. He said as a male I should "stay the f$#% away from soy" as it will mess with my hormone balances and referenced "squeaky queer sounding men buying soy protein isolate and living on soy everything" He ran a nutrition store. He also mentioned that for women, if they had a family history of breast cancer, or hormone issues they need to avoid soy. I ignored him and later developed a extreme intolerance to pure soy in products with explosive D. Now days I can stomach soy lectin in some foods but I still avoid actual soy like the plague with fear of being married to the toilet afraid to get off it. Got to admit I miss my old soy nabe pots (hot pots of soup base using soy milk) making the milk and stock broth first, skimming off the stuff that formed on top and dipping it in tamari sauce, and then cooking all kinds of veggies in it....I also miss tofu.....I used to be huge into Japanese Cusinse and I was actually learning and trying to take classes around the time my Celiac dia and then soy intolerance started.....threw a wrench into my life plans lol.

[tessa25]

A good dairy free chocolate bar is made by Moo Free. Comes from England I believe. I bought one on Amazon. Not cheap. Cocomels Original are quite satisfying df caramels.

 

 

[Jmg]

6 hours ago, Ennis_TX said:

...Keep meal bars like Kind, and Julian Bakery, pretty sure you can amazon order them and I know luckyvitamin ships international, on that note, I just found some dairy free vegan and sugar free chocolate bars on Luckyvitamin. Lilly's Makes many different kinds

I'm across the pond in the UK so our products are different, but there's no shortage of safe snacks, I just need to change some of them for milk free versions. 

7 hours ago, Ennis_TX said:

Also you might want to tone it down on soy, my old dietician I had years ago told me to get off it before it started even giving me problems. He said as a male I should "stay the f$#% away from soy" as it will mess with my hormone balances

Yeah I read about this case a few years ago: Open Original Shared Link I don't have a hell of a lot, nothing in teas or coffees, a rice / coconut based milk on cereal. Only soy I have is soy sauce for cooking sometimes and this yogurt, but worth keeping an eye on. 

7 hours ago, Ennis_TX said:

I used to be huge into Japanese Cusinse and I was actually learning and trying to take classes around the time my Celiac dia and then soy intolerance started.....threw a wrench into my life plans lol.

I loved Japanese food too. In fact I love a lot about Japan, the literature, the crazy culture, used to live with Japanese girl and always wanted to visit. Never did, don't expect I will now, anxiety around eating killed my wanderlust.

 

[Jmg]

5 hours ago, tessa25 said:

Comes from England I believe.

Like all the best things  

I'm aware of Moo. Almost bought their advent calendar till I realised I'm not 8 years old...

[Jmg]

On 12/12/2017 at 8:27 PM, TrinaP said:

I found when I was first diagnosed I seemed to bloat a lot from a large amount of dairy. After taking it out for 6 months I tried to reintroduce it (drinking glasses of milk) and it didn't go well. I'm fine with yogurt, cheese and other things but not in large amounts.

Hi Trina, like Karen says your case sounds more like what I thought I had, an intolerance to lactose, especially the bloating. Maybe you will get dairy back in time? Many do. I'm beginning to think I've lost it for keeps.

[Posterboy]

14 hours ago, Jmg said:

But no-one did.  Instead you've posted some very good, sensible advice which makes a lot of sense to me. I've since read online that trace amounts, such as you'd find I guess in these kind of treats are not allowed.

jmg, I am sorry I tried.

That is true for cheese -- it can not be made casein free according to livestrong but you can take lactaid for the lactose portion of milk.  Or drink lactaid brand milk or ice cream.

at least then you will know if it is the lactose or the casein that is the problem.

And they do make lactose free cheeses . . . . so that is something.  And they will be labeled as such so you don't have to worry about getting the wrong kind of cheese accidently.

find some kefir it is 99% lactose free if it (dairy) still bothers you it is probably the casein.

I hope this is helpful.

posterboy,

 

[Jmg]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:03 AM, Posterboy said:

jmg, I am sorry I tried

Not at all Professor, please don't apologise, as always I'm bowled over by the kindness you show in trying to help. I'm just having a bit of a moan, it's what English people do, it's our special talent and I'm almost at professional level.  Thanks to everyone that's replied. 

Quick update. I filled a big bag of gluten-free foods with milk or dairy trace elements within and eating totally milk free started to feel very good indeed. I've restarted magnesium supplements so some could be that but I noticed improvements in mental and physical health.  

Then on Christmas day I had some milk chocolate, turkey stuffing and gluten-free pudding that had milk in.... Definite reaction. Some of which could be lactose intolerance, although amounts must be tiny in these foods, but my chest started to tighten later. Last night I had to find my asthma inhaler  So I think this means a histamine mediated response to dairy but not totally sure. 

The weird thing is this has pushed me back into the post gluten discovery mindset, I now have a new group of foods to say goodbye to, ice cream  gluten-free cheesecake  Some of these have been my friends as the list of regular foods has shrunk.

Still, the prospect of improved health is enough and GFinDC has it right, my desire for feeling sick is low so dairy trace foods will soon be as unthinkable as gluten ones. It's knocked me for six though, still learning years into the diet!

Matt

 

 

 

 

[Ennis-TX]

1 hour ago, Jmg said:

, I now have a new group of foods to say goodbye to, ice cream  gluten-free cheesecake  Some of these have been my friends as the list of regular foods has shrunk.

>.< next time you visit the USA  I can show you the gluten free and dairy free versions of these lol. I know 2 companies that make gluten-free/DF cheesecake extracts/flavors....and one ships international. Not tried theirs yet but you could mix it in with coconut milk, and a pudding base like agar agar and make a cheese cake filling/pudding with it.
>.> I eat diary free ice cream every day...in my smoothies......Make it from scratch loaded with fats and protein for a meal replacement as it is easy to digest. I found some companies that make them also...even a sugar free one....>.< I have 9 pints of their sugar free icecream in the freezer.

[Jmg]

9 minutes ago, Ennis_TX said:

>.< next time you visit the USA  I can show you the gluten free and dairy free versions of these lol. I know 2 companies that make gluten-free/DF cheesecake extracts/flavors....and one ships international. Not tried theirs yet but you could mix it in with coconut milk, and a pudding base like agar agar and make a cheese cake filling/pudding with it.
>.> I eat diary free ice cream every day...in my smoothies......Make it from scratch loaded with fats and protein for a meal replacement as it is easy to digest. I found some companies that make them also...even a sugar free one....>.< I have 9 pints of their sugar free icecream in the freezer.

I got this Open Original Shared Link which is made from soy, I doubt Ben and Jerry are quaking in their boots but it's cold and tastes of vanilla so it's not the end of the world.  There's a lemon dairy free 'cheesecake' on sale in asda I think also, but that is a million miles away from cheesecake as I know it.

i will have to dig out my paleo cookbooks and stop relying on companies to do this for me, or book my tickets to Texas

[Ennis-TX]

3 hours ago, Jmg said:

I got this Open Original Shared Link which is made from soy, I doubt Ben and Jerry are quaking in their boots but it's cold and tastes of vanilla so it's not the end of the world.  There's a lemon dairy free 'cheesecake' on sale in asda I think also, but that is a million miles away from cheesecake as I know it.

i will have to dig out my paleo cookbooks and stop relying on companies to do this for me, or book my tickets to Texas

Just found this company 2 weeks ago, they ship international and their flavors are rated for drinks, baking etc. No alchol so good for cold and raw foods like cheese cake, smoothies desserts. Check the newyork cheese cake....they also ship international....I just ordered and the cereal sounds amazing...I was told it tasted like frosted corn flakes >.> I am allergic to corn and actually miss those lol.  Open Original Shared Link

[Jmg]

On 12/27/2017 at 1:45 PM, Ennis_TX said:

Just found this company 2 weeks ago, they ship international and their flavors are rated for drinks, baking etc. No alchol so good for cold and raw foods like cheese cake, smoothies desserts. Check the newyork cheese cake....they also ship international....I just ordered and the cereal sounds amazing...I was told it tasted like frosted corn flakes >.> I am allergic to corn and actually miss those lol.  Open Original Shared Link

Do you use them in say milk shakes or in baking? I've used vanilla essence, things like that, but never bubblegum or cantaloupe!

I don't bake much, today I made a gluten-free cake from a pre bought mix which is cheating I guess. I may try and do something from first principles in the new year. I've had some success before making paleo brownies with coconut flour, maybe I'll give that another go.

I'm allowing myself till new year to eat the gluten-free treats with milk which people have bought for me. It includes an absolutely amazing xmas cake from M&S and some mince pies, pudding etc as well as some chocolates. All of which means I'm probably having more milk than I've had in some time and today I felt the results. I'm full of cold, coughing, stomach churning etc. I don't think I'll find it hard to give up milk entirely come Jan 1st. 

[Victoria1234]

5 minutes ago, Jmg said:

Do you use them in say milk shakes or in baking? I've used vanilla essence, things like that, but never bubblegum or cantaloupe!

I don't bake much, today I made a gluten-free cake from a pre bought mix which is cheating I guess. I may try and do something from first principles in the new year. I've had some success before making paleo brownies with coconut flour, maybe I'll give that another go.

I'm allowing myself till new year to eat the gluten-free treats with milk which people have bought for me. It includes an absolutely amazing xmas cake from M&S and some mince pies, pudding etc as well as some chocolates. All of which means I'm probably having more milk than I've had in some time and today I felt the results. I'm full of cold, coughing, stomach churning etc. I don't think I'll find it hard to give up milk entirely come Jan 1st. 

They work in shakes, puddings, baked items, coffee, most everything.