Anaphylaxis due to celiac disease?

[Scott Adams]

@Anniehall Do you realize that the article you pointed me to is critical of the existence of "cross reactive foods?" 

https://paleofoundation.com/19-gluten-cross-reactive-foods/

Quote

ABSTRACT

1. Numerous online blog articles report  ”19 Gluten Cross-Reactive foods. “

2. Close inspection reveals questionable conclusions and significant overstatement and extrapolation from the original sources of information.

3. Alternate conclusions presented within this blog article would call into question the existence of many blog-reported gluten cross-reactive foods.

4. Lessons about rigorous research and reporting of scientific data can be learned.

 

Quote

CONCLUSIONS

However, The Celiac Disease Center does not currently recognize Enterolabs or Cyrex stool tests for cross-reactivity (or for CD for that matter). [20] Simply, they are “not sensitive or specific enough” and just haven’t held water (yet) in the scientific arena.

This article mentions cross reactivity, but it does not in any way explain it, or provide any evidence to support it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5936671/

[Anniehall]

2 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

@Anniehall Do you realize that the article you pointed me to is critical of the existence of "cross reactive foods?" 

https://paleofoundation.com/19-gluten-cross-reactive-foods/

 

This article mentions cross reactivity, but it does not in any way explain it, or provide any evidence to support it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5936671/

Yes. The paleobfoundation article says that only some of the foods are true cross reactives. 

[Anniehall]

It doesn't deny the existence of cross reactives all together. It just says that there are not actually 19 of them. Did you read the whole thing or just skip to the conclusion and make a judgment to fit with your prior thoughts on the subject?  What's strange in my case is that it took 7 months of me going gluten free for some of the cross reactives to cause skin reactions. After cutting the foods out for several months it takes between 1 and 2 months after being without them and adding them back in for me to start reacting again. Where as with gluten, Even a miniscule amount, I will react within an hour to early the next day with a skin reaction. 

[Anniehall]

Trents. I'm just trying to reply to the thread not quote my own posts. I'm new to this forum. I'll be more careful on that. Sorry if it annoyed you. 

Why is there no option to edit or delete your own posts on this site after a posting?

[Anniehall]

Oh. I know why it's looking like I'm quoting my own thread. Even when I click reply to this thread it repeats my last post often whether or not I press quote and reply. I just clicked reply to this thread and that happened and then I found an option to delete the previous quoted comment out. I don't know why it does that in the first place. You should be able to comment on a specific post in a thread without it requoting the whole thing in entirety each time. I did not design the website so don't blame me for the lack of user friendliness. I reread the paleo foundation article. The woman is mentioning that she believes some of the cross reactives may not be true cross reactives but just gluten contaminated grains and others are more likely to be cross reactives. Really though there seems to be overlap with several characteristics of these other foods that people with celiacs can react to besides gluten ( "the cross reactives"). These are off the top of my head. Many are lectins, many are plant based major protein sources, many are considered gluten cross reactives, many are even in the same food family as wheat, barley and rye,  and many have an extremely unhealthy arginine to lysine ratio when consumed in the absence of meat and dairy. I don't understand the skeptics behind the cross reactive theory. It makes sense to me. 

I thought maybe it was the arginine to lysine ratio being an issue so when I began eating again after my last fast which went on for far too long. I added them back in but made sure to always pair them with high lysine foods and lysine supplementation. This worked for about a month and a half and then the skin reactions came back shortly before the onset of my second menstruation and got worse after that eventually turning back to the worst of the skin reactions that I have, DH. 

Oh. I know why it's looking like I'm quoting my own thread. Even when I click reply to this thread it repeats my last post often whether or not I press quote and reply. I just clicked reply to this thread and that happened and then I found an option to delete the previous quoted comment out. I don't know why it does that in the first place. You should be able to comment on a specific post in a thread without it requoting the whole thing in entirety each time. I did not design the website so don't blame me for the lack of user friendliness. I reread the paleo foundation article. The woman is mentioning that she believes some of the cross reactives may not be true cross reactives but just gluten contaminated grains and others are more likely to be cross reactives. Really though there seems to be overlap with several characteristics of these other foods that people with celiacs can react to besides gluten ( "the cross reactives"). These are off the top of my head. Many are lectins, many are plant based major protein sources, many are considered gluten cross reactives, many are even in the same food family as wheat, barley and rye,  and many have an extremely unhealthy arginine to lysine ratio when consumed in the absence of meat and dairy. I don't understand the skeptics behind the cross reactive theory. It makes sense to me. 

I thought maybe it was the arginine to lysine ratio being an issue so when I began eating again after my last fast which went on for far too long. I added them back in but made sure to always pair them with high lysine foods and lysine supplementation. This worked for about a month and a half and then the skin reactions came back shortly before the onset of my second menstruation and got worse after that eventually turning back to the worst of the skin reactions that I have, DH. 

[Wheatwacked]

53 minutes ago, Anniehall said:

Even when I click reply to this thread it repeats my last post often whether or not I press quote and reply.

I've noticed it too. If you post another reply before someone else has, it saves your previous post. Simply remember to delete it before continuing,

[Wheatwacked]

7 hours ago, Anniehall said:

My immune system skin reactions really started acting up more after I got pregnant

Vitamin and mineral deficiencies, especially choline, folate and iodine are common in pregnancy. Tack that on to malabsorption due to undiagnosed celiac disease and you've got the perfect storm.

[Scott Adams]

ok

1 hour ago, Anniehall said:

It doesn't deny the existence of cross reactives all together. It just says that there are not actually 19 of them. Did you read the whole thing or just skip to the conclusion and make a judgment to fit with your prior thoughts on the subject?  What's strange in my case is that it took 7 months of me going gluten free for some of the cross reactives to cause skin reactions. After cutting the foods out for several months it takes between 1 and 2 months after being without them and adding them back in for me to start reacting again. Where as with gluten, Even a miniscule amount, I will react within an hour to early the next day with a skin reaction. 

I read the post, it’s not a peer-reviewed study, but does say the following, so it doesn’t really support the concept of cross-reactivity which is too often thrown around:

Observing the “p-values” reported in Table 2: Using the p ≤ 0.05 threshold, we can reject the null hypothesis for α-gliadin (outlined in blue, positive control). If we’re generous and we increase

Observing  the “p-values” reported in Table 2:

Using the p ≤ 0.05 threshold, we can reject the null hypothesis for α-gliadin (outlined in blue, positive control). If we’re generous and we increase our threshold to p ≤ 0.1 (meaning the frequency of getting results at least this large under the null hypothesis is less than or equal to 10%), we can include yeast, millet, and corn.

p = 0.5 means that there is a 50% chance of getting results at least as large as what was observed under the null hypothesis of no effect. In other words, if we repeated this experiment several times, half of the time, we’d see differences at least this big, even if there was no actual effect. 

This calls into question the interpretation of the results, because the results are so consistent with the null hypothesis of no effect. While the means of the assays (reported as a % inhibition) may have been reduced (indicating binding), there was apparently such high assay variability that it was not a significant difference from the control. Therefore, these results are consistent with the hypothesis of no effect, and consistent with the idea that the differences we see are due to chance. 

threshold to p ≤ 0.1 (meaning the frequency of getting results at least this large under the null hypothesis is less than or equal to 10%), we can include yeast, millet, and corn. p = 0.5 means that there is a 50% chance of getting results at least as large as what was observed under the null hypothesis of no effect. In other words, if we repeated this experiment several times, half of the time, we’d see differences at least this big, even if there was no actual effect. This calls into question the interpretation of the results, because the results are so consistent with the null hypothesis of no effect. While the means of the assays (reported as a % inhibition) may have been reduced (indicating binding), there was apparently such high assay variability that it was not a significant difference from the control. Therefore, these results are consistent with the hypothesis of no effect, and consistent with the idea that the differences we see are

[trents]

3 hours ago, Anniehall said:

Trents. I'm just trying to reply to the thread not quote my own posts. I'm new to this forum. I'll be more careful on that. Sorry if it annoyed you. 

Why is there no option to edit or delete your own posts on this site after a posting?

There is a timer on the edit function. If you wait very long the edit function is not available.

If you don't need to quote someone or yourself in the next post, scroll down past "Quote and Reply" and there will be another text entry area just below that.

[Anniehall]

That study is also on animals not on humans. 

[Anniehall]

I think people should look more closely at how plants are related to figure out their sensitivities. That seemed to be the most helpful for me in figuring out my sensitivities. I still don't necessarily think cross reactives are non existent. But I also don't think you need a college degree to be creditable nor do I ignore every anecdotal bit of info that I take in. 

[knitty kitty]

5 hours ago, Anniehall said:

 But I also don't think you need a college degree to be creditable nor do I ignore every anecdotal bit of info that I take in. 

 

Anniehall,

Have you ever tried removing dairy products from your diet?

Dairy, especially the protein casein, can cause all sorts of problems in the skin, including acne and ketosis pillaris.

 

Dairy Intake and Acne Vulgaris: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of 78,529 Children, Adolescents, and Young Adults

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6115795/

 

And...

Evidence for acne-promoting effects of milk and other insulinotropic dairy products

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21335995/

 

And ... this could be why you seem to be reacting to so many different foods....

Milk-induced eczema is associated with the expansion of T cells expressing cutaneous lymphocyte antigen

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7532192/

 

And...

Mucosal reactivity to cow's milk protein in coeliac disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17302893/

"A mucosal inflammatory response similar to that elicited by gluten was produced by Cow's Milk protein in about 50% of the patients with coeliac disease. Casein, in particular, seems to be involved in this reaction."

 

And...

"Casomorphins and Gliadorphins Have Diverse Systemic Effects Spanning Gut, Brain and Internal Organs"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8345738/

 

Are you supplementing vitamins while you fast?