Wahls Protocol anyone?

[mom2boyz]

Did it work?

Any tips?

I started the Wahls protocol this week, after reading the book.  Not too encouraged, adding another 4-5 cups of veggies to my diet has not gone over well with my tummy... 

[Ennis-TX]

Skimmed the diet, good way to clean out and get good  amounts of vitamins and trace minerals. There are some things to consider, with damaged guts we have issues digesting tougher food, most of the foods and amounts would be quite harsh on a damaged GI tract.
There is also the adjustment period of any new diet and your guts microbiome. I would approach it a bit differently, easy into it with 1/4th the amount suggest...and cook them soft in a soup or stew so they are easier to digest. Also you might want to watch out for some of those foods, you might have a food intolerance or sensitivity. If you have the time and patience use a rotating elimination diet first to see if you have a food intolerance or sensitivity to any of the suggested vegetables.
 

[plumbago]

On 10/23/2018 at 1:44 AM, mom2boyz said:

Did it work?

Any tips?

I started the Wahls protocol this week, after reading the book.  Not too encouraged, adding another 4-5 cups of veggies to my diet has not gone over well with my tummy... 

Reason for delay in my responding is that I am just seeing this now. Terry Wahls, MD is a genius/fantastic person/insert own superlative - in my book. She actually recommends 9 cups of nonstarchy vegetables (last time I looked), and she herself does some kind of version of keto to overcome her MS successfully, but I do not have all the details on that, just the basic generalities (I checked her book out of the library then took notes that I saved on my computer - it was that good and common sense (example: "When you look at chronic disease on a cellular and molecular level, we see it’s all the same disease – too much oxidative stress, inflammation, and nutrient deficiencies, toxins that are present. We see it in mental health, neurodegeneration, autoimmunity. It’s remarkably similar. Treat at the cellular level. It makes clinic vastly easier." Seriously, what could make more sense?))

As to your actual question, I have tried to do as much of it as possible but I'm sure, I fall far short of her ideal. In other words, I have aimed for 9 cups a day. However, in addition to that being a lot of work chopping and whatnot, it's a lot of eating! And I usually hit more along the lines of 5-7 cups a day. And yes, it helps - enormously. I do not know her views on intermittent fasting, but one thing that has helped me weight loss wise (and I'm aware that I've never been overweight, I just think for me I do better at about 20 BMI than 23 BMI), is to give myself 12 hours of not eating, so I basically stop eating at 5 or 6 pm.

Getting back to you. If you read her book, she does give some advice about easing into it, because, obviously, it is an extremely high fiber regimen. Go back and read it (I don't remember exactly what she said, else I'd quote it for you). There is no question that that many veggies helps. I pack in a ton to start my day with a veggie-mostly smoothie. And before I upped my veggie consumption, I was already eating a lot, just nowhere near as much as I am now. (Also, I do sugar fasts of 2-3 months at a time, and then one to two week sugar fasts other times.)

ETA: I will say that while I personally love vegetables and I know other people do too, not everyone is as driven to consume the leafy greens and certain root veggies as I am and that is not a sin! Meaning, people have different eating styles, and - very very generally speaking - most people have a good sense of what kind of eating works well for them. Some of my friends eat more bread than I do, or more oatmeal - that type of thing. Whereas I will be packing in the veggies. But they may eat, overall, less. So while I am practically a true believer in the Wahls protocol on the one hand, it may be more accurate to say I believe in the underlying concepts. Because on the other hand, if one or two of my friends endeavored to eat like me, it would not go over well!

 

[Ennis-TX]

8 minutes ago, plumbago said:

Reason for delay in my responding is that I am just seeing this now. Terry Wahls, MD is a genius/fantastic person/insert own superlative - in my book. She actually recommends 9 cups of nonstarchy vegetables (last time I looked), and she herself does some kind of version of keto to overcome her MS successfully, but I do not have all the details on that, just the basic generalities (I checked her book out of the library then took notes that I saved on my computer - it was that good and common sense (example: "When you look at chronic disease on a cellular and molecular level, we see it’s all the same disease – too much oxidative stress, inflammation, and nutrient deficiencies, toxins that are present. We see it in mental health, neurodegeneration, autoimmunity. It’s remarkably similar. Treat at the cellular level. It makes clinic vastly easier." Seriously, what could make more sense?))

As to your actual question, I have tried to do as much of it as possible but I'm sure, I fall far short of her ideal. In other words, I have aimed for 9 cups a day. However, in addition to that being a lot of work chopping and whatnot, it's a lot of eating! And I usually hit more along the lines of 5-7 cups a day. And yes, it helps - enormously. I do not know her views on intermittent fasting, but one thing that has helped me weight loss wise (and I'm aware that I've never been overweight, I just think for me I do better at about 20 BMI than 23 BMI), is to give myself 12 hours of not eating, so I basically stop eating at 5 or 6 pm.

Getting back to you. If you read her book, she does give some advice about easing into it, because, obviously, it is an extremely high fiber regimen. Go back and read it (I don't remember exactly what she said, else I'd quote it for you). There is no question that that many veggies helps. I pack in a ton to start my day with a veggie-mostly smoothie. And before I upped my veggie consumption, I was already eating a lot, just nowhere near as much as I am now. (Also, I do sugar fasts of 2-3 months at a time, and then one to two week sugar fasts other times.)

ETA: I will say that while I personally love vegetables and I know other people do too, not everyone is as driven to consume the leafy greens and certain root veggies as I am and that is not a sin! Meaning, people have different eating styles, and - very very generally speaking - most people have a good sense of what kind of eating works well for them. Some of my friends eat more bread than I do, or more oatmeal - that type of thing. Whereas I will be packing in the veggies. But they may eat, overall, less. So while I am practically a true believer in the Wahls protocol on the one hand, it may be more accurate to say I believe in the underlying concepts. Because on the other hand, if one or two of my friends endeavored to eat like me, it would not go over well!

 

Love these concepts, I have recently gotten into the 12 hours fasting instead of eating every 4 hours. I actually started putting on muscle mass like crazy. Seems the concept of letting your body focus on healing instead of digesting is great. Up 6 lbs in a month (jump and nothing jiggles and the muscles bulge out now)

The veggies, good concepts to try, dehydrating and turning veggies into powders, like kale, mixing with herbs then keeping in a mason jar. Few spoons into boiling coconut milk and it makes good creamy soup. Ketoandco I think is the name makes powdered broccoli for this kind of stuff, I also love making a creamed spinach then blending it into a soup. Really easy to get in veggies with these methods...heck the powdered kale or broccoli..mixed into eggs, coconut milk, and a bit of coconut or almond flour then baked into a veggie quiche like dish.

I am trying to do no sweetener thing....but stress gets me and I end up making something with swerve, or using stevia or monk fruit in something.  giving up real sugar was easy....trying to give up sweets....ugg.

[mom2boyz]

So I'm almost 3 months into it, and this diet has improved my life so much.  I'm pretty strict with it.  My arthritis (that I've had since I was 18) is just gone.  I actually love vegetables and eat more veggies than what she calls for.  Especially lettuces, since they sort of taste sweet to me, I could eat lettuce all day.  

It is a lot of work chopping veggies.  I tend to chop in bulk and store it in the fridge in pyrex containers.  I've also learned to choke down vegetables for breakfast, when I really just want to eat waffles or cinnamon toast).  My husband has been doing it with me, because he's just awesome.  I seriously couldn't ask for a better partner in life.  He takes salads and canned fish to work with him.

I was actually referred by a friend to Dr. Gundry's plant paradox, and I started cutting lectins and saturated fats from meat at the beginning of December, and continuing Wahls vegetable guidelines.   It wasn't that big of a move since I already had issues digesting beans, nuts and fatty cuts of meat (like steak and ribs), most especially in large quantities.  I also found out eggs, dairy and nightshades don't really affect my digestion but they do cause my arthritis to flare up, and they're probably not helping my gut heal either.  But goat cheese, which I love, is amazingly just fine.

My kids are eating with us, and my older son's eczema is gone (I'm thinking it's either dairy or peanuts).  He hasn't had an attack of asthma/hives since we cut gluten out of our diet either, which is very relieving.

I still have not gained any weight.  I'm still on the border of being underweight, but I haven't lost any either.  I'm also back to exercising every day, I have a ton more energy, I really think the high B12 meats (liver, heart, oysters & muscles) help a ton.  I tend to eat them in the morning (can't have waffles, so I figure I might as well get the yucky stuff out of the way). It's a better boost than morning coffee.  I've been walking the dog with the family 2 miles a day.  And since my knees no longer hurt, I'm back to jogging and strength training as well.

[plumbago]

Wow: more than what she calls for?! Incredible. How do you do it? I know you said lettuce, but that can take you only so far, I would think. Do you have anything to cite regarding food and eczema? I also have eczema but thought in my case it was triggered by an environmental allergen. But your arthritis, that's just great. My knees are starting to hurt, maybe I should pay attention. Now, are you sure it's your diet and not the additional exercising you are doing? You're the second person lately who has mentioned lectins. I need more time and energy before I delve into learning about that and/or implementing a change.

I guess my question re the Wahls diet would be - what if you / I eat less than the 9 cups required because you are eating less food? For example, on days I don't work, I will often eat twice a day. And honestly, 9 cups is a lot of food. I cram a lot in with the breakfast smoothie.

[mom2boyz]

I do the yucky greens in the morning, to get them out of the way, so I flip between cooked organ meat & greens one morning to a smoothie the next.  And a lot of the greens can count as either ors.  Like Kale, arugula, and collards, are both greens and sulfur.  Then there is purple cabbage, beet greens, and purple kale, which can count for purple or greens or sulfur.  

I'm not perfect either, I tend to flake the most during the weekend.  However, I think staying away from lectins and milk, since they're inherently inflammatory, is by far the best thing anyone can do.  Veggies and meat are just added vitamins.  If you read her book, she has a plan for eating twice a day, it involves more fat, limited fruit and less veggies.  I think she also said to keep it proportional so 1 cup green to 1 cup sulfur to 1 cup colors.

I am 100% positive the diet affects my arthritis.  I used to run every morning since I was a kid.  I started seeing a doctor for my knees at 18.  At 24, I was a nursing student working on a surgical ward, and my knees were hurting all.day.long.  I decided to give up running, because I absolutely did NOT want to have knee replacement surgery ever.  I started noticing the same vague pain in my fingers, ankles, big toes, and hips as I hit my 30s, and a lot more stiffness in my pointer fingers and knees, but I attributed it to normal aging, not arthritis since my joints weren't really red and puffy like my mom's.  Anyway a week on the diet, and I had no more pain, unless I actually hurt myself, or eat something I shouldn't be eating.  I started jogging again about a week after that, and I've had some small pains, especially the first week back, but nothing like before.

Now I'm trying to get my mom on board.  Her hands are really bad.  But it's really hard, because we're all told from a young age that all these foods are so wonderful and good for us.  She just doesn't have the benefit of a digestive system that throws them out right away.

[plumbago]

Regarding the greens, I actually like them, and jam a lot in my smoothie in the morning. I almost always add ginger, which helps immensely. I have tried twice to eat organ meats, and I could not muster any enthusiasm, it felt like I was eating wrought iron. I am not precise on what I’m doing, so I probably should not even come close to saying I do anything like Wahls. Having said that because I never have actually measured the veggies I eat for breakfast, mostly in smoothies, or lunch or dinner (dinner is always extremely light) I can’t say with 100% accuracy how many cups I’m consuming. I may be coming close to 9 cups, I can’t really say with any accuracy. And I just eyeball everything, so I’m also not sure if what I’m doing proportional either.

Would I be correct in assuming you are not consuming sugar? Like, ever? And of course, no cheese, butter, or milk?

[mom2boyz]

Beef liver is the worst.  I have to choke it down, but beef heart and chicken organs aren't so bad.  I think they taste better the more I eat them.  

I measured veggies in the beginning, just so I could get an accurate eyeball of how much a cup was.  When it comes to greens, especially if you cook them, 3 cups goes by pretty fast.  If you watched her ted talk, she says about a dinner plate full of greens is 3 cups.  I'm definitely not proportional either, though I try to make sure I have at least 2 cups of everything.

I actually stopped sugar with the gluten last year.  Very occasionally honey or dates to flavor a sweet treat.  I really don't miss sugar at all anymore.  Other than I still drool over the baked goods at the grocery store.  I stopped dairy altogether, I do occasionally use ghee, and I just introduced goat cheese, it seems fine, so we'll see how that goes.

[Posterboy]

3 hours ago, mom2boyz said:

I started noticing the same vague pain in my fingers, ankles, big toes, and hips as I hit my 30s, and a lot more stiffness in my pointer fingers and knees, but I attributed it to normal aging, not arthritis since my joints weren't really red and puffy like my mom's.

Mom2boyz,

This is about your arthritis. ... I had similar issues.

This thread might help you.

https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/123317-bones-and-celiac-disease/?tab=comments#comment-999518

2 Timothy 2: 7 “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

Posterboy by the grace of God,