Diamine oxidase deficiency in untreated celiac patients

[Iiv]

11 minutes ago, trents said:

Live, does the h1 make you sleepy? Why not some of the newer antihistamines (like Zyrtec) that aren't so sedative? Do they not have the same beneficial effect for the the symptoms you are treating?

No, I use desloratadin. A very friendly Antihistamine h1. No side effects at all, not even in higher doses. Not that I know. 

The h2 blocker, ranitidin takes off the edge off the rest of the histamine fatigue. It's as if I am being pumped with energy as it sets in. Hence it feels useless to take h2 at bedtime for me, when I can use the energy for other things than sleeping.  

 

Cetrizine makes me really tired though. 

[notme]

you can take h1 & h2 twice a day, or not.  I tried (zyrtek/ranitidine <I use zantac 75 but I break it into lower doses) doing this but it didn't make any difference, better or worse.  you can also try 2 different antihistamines.  some people use ketotifen.....  I do not.  I tried it but didn't make anything different, so....

my daughter and my brother both use the h1 & h2 but not the same times as I do, bc they experimented and are doing what works for them.  neither one of them uses the nasalcrom, but they both use a benzo as a stabilizer.

lolz - I have tons of stuff, digestive enzymes to probiotics to allergy meds to supplements (I really should throw some stuff out they are sooo old) that worked for a little while but then I guess my body changed/didn't need them/needed something different.   so, that is also a fun part of this (not) and honestly, on the spectrum/range of symptoms and problems, I am on the low symptom side.  people who have it worse are on i.v. meds or have anaphalactic <sp) responses that they hafta have an epi pen.  they have reactions to scents, sunlight, temperature, stress, all sorts of things that land them in the emergency room. (I have oral allergy syndrome, it likes to flare up when i'm on vacation where pollen is different than where I live, so that's also fun ? but not all the time.  I keep benedryl in my purse for that.  the first time was scary, felt like I was eating itchy glass.)  

so, in the grand scheme of things, I say thank you God for making this not as bad as it could be.   

oh, and I forgot to answer your question, liv - I have been on h1 & h2 for about 3 years and i'm not worried about being addicted?  the Flonase has steroids in it, so that concerns me.  but not enough to skip it do some experimenting, keep some notes, do the things.  you don't need a scope to be celiac and by staying gluten free, your body could change and you may not have the histamine issue or maybe less of them.

 

[cyclinglady]

5 hours ago, trents said:

Live, does the h1 make you sleepy? Why not some of the newer antihistamines (like Zyrtec) that aren't so sedative? Do they not have the same beneficial effect for the the symptoms you are treating?

I think you are confusing 1st generation antihistamines (drowsy) vs. 2nd  generation antihistamines (non-drowsy). 

Learn difference between H1 and H2 here:

https://www.amboss.com/us/knowledge/Antihistamines

I took both H1 and H2 antihistamines as prescribed by my doctor/allergist because my stomach actually hurts before I break out in hives, swell, vomit or pass out.  I still keep a first generation antihistamine in my purse (Benadryl).  I will take drowsy over swelling.  It seems to work faster for me.  Luckily, my triggers are usually medications and insect bites. 

But by avoiding gluten at all costs, I have not had an attack in a year!  

[trents]

CL, are you responding to what I asked in quoting my post. I think you are saying what I said or what my question to live implied.

[cyclinglady]

I am not sure I am communicating well at all!  ?

The example you gave, Zyrtec, is an H1 antihistamine, but is considered second generation.  It does not cause drowsiness as much as the older first-generation antihistamines like Benadryl.  H2 antihistamines are acid reducers for the stomach.  They work on reducing or blocking histamine receptors in the stomach and other areas in the body.  

There was a study that showed that 1st generation antihistamines do cross the blood brain barrier and might be linked to dementia.  Not sure if that is true, but moderation and working with your medical team is your best bet.  No medication is risk free.  

Did I answer it correctly or I still not understanding?  I can share that I am horrible at texting per my kid!  

[trents]

CL, thanks for the clarification. I was asking liv if the h1 she was taking was making her drowsy and assuming she was using one of the first generation antihistamines. But I was confused about the h2 not being a second generation antihistamine. 

[Iiv]

1 hour ago, notme! said:

Notme! 

 Yes, I'll experiment some. At this time I'm pleased with desloratadin and ranitidin. But mixing might work well in emergencies, and I'll add the nasal and maybe eyedrops too. 

My aim is to keep the levels low enough with food. And hopefully I won't have these issues in a couple of years, but I have to assume I will. 

It's sad that you're on your own with this. At least I know I'm deficent, it's great to be able to explain to people why I'm not feeling well. But if your family is struggling with the same thing, at least you'll have understanding from them. 

I too react to scents, especially if I have pain in sinuses and neck. But not being hospitalized for it. Just worsening the pain and nausea. 

[Posterboy]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:39 PM, ch88 said:

 

Celiac disease can all sorts of different health problems. I don't think you have ruled out all of these possibilities. DAO deficiency, although it maybe possible, is just one possibility among many. Like alcohol consumption naturally causes withdrawal/hangover symptoms including headaches. Some people may be more sensitive to these things than other people. 

Headaches are linked to stress, IBS, food allergies, other food sensitivities and vitamin deficiencies. A whole foods, healthy, anti inflammation or an elimination diet could still be useful. 

Baking soda effects stomach acid production, and there is actually evidence that it can help reduce inflammation. 

I think some MTHFR variations are more important than others, but I don't think that in general MTHFR has much effect on peoples health.  There is a lot of information online but a lot of it is very speculative and unreliable. This is all my non-medical opinion.

Ch88,

There was some discussion about how common the MTHFR gene variant was.

When I first read this link/discussion/topic on Celiac.com on the MTHFR gene variant it was the first I had heard of it.

The numbers they cited for frequency seemed high...I like your moderate ground.

That made me go back and dig,....diggggggg....digggggg some more in the research....I think I might of found something that explains the connection.

I will site the short summary by Jeffery Dach MD and the longer original research see what you think Ch88.

https://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/11/riboflavin-hypertension-mthfr/

the original research is entitled "Riboflavin status modifies the effects of methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) and methionine synthase reductase (MTRR) polymorphisms on homocysteine"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4235830/

I was interested to find a connection between vitamin status and a genetic variant.

I wonder if it more connected than we know?

Here is a 2nd older research about the same topic entitled "Riboflavin Lowers Homocysteine in Individuals Homozygous for the MTHFR 677C→T Polymorphism" and maybe the first study on this topic.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.105.580332

I  hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:27 AM, Beverage said:

My friend used to have severe migranes and was greatly helped by magnesium supplements.  CALM powder by Natural Vitality is the one her doc recommended and it is gluten-free.

Beverage,

Magnesium is good for depression too!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786/

Here is nice Pyschology today article that shows taking Magnesium can also reduce headaches as well.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/open-gently/201709/magnesium-might-boost-mood

If you want to see all the technical reasons that Magnesium can help Migraines this article has a lot of nice references.

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2016/04/03/magnesium-for-migraines-an-intervention-to-consider/

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

[ch88]

On 7/19/2019 at 4:40 PM, Posterboy said:

That made me go back and dig,....diggggggg....digggggg some more in the research....I think I might of found something that explains the connection.

I will site the short summary by Jeffery Dach MD and the longer original research see what you think Ch88.

https://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/11/riboflavin-hypertension-mthfr/

the original research is entitled "Riboflavin status modifies the effects of methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR) and methionine synthase reductase (MTRR) polymorphisms on homocysteine"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4235830/

I was interested to find a connection between vitamin status and a genetic variant.

I wonder if it more connected than we know?

Could be.  Also overall nutritional intake I am sure is relevant. One of the studies that you mentioned stated:

"We hypothesised that the effects of each of the MTHFR and MTRR polymorphisms on tHcy depend on riboflavin status. High folate status in the case of MTHFR or cobalamin in the case of MTRR may mask or override riboflavin-dependent effects. We tested our hypothesis in adults that were unexposed to mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid or to B vitamin supplement use. "

Some of the people in the study might have nutritional deficiencies in their diet. If you combine that with a genetic variant I could see why MTHFR might effect someones heath.

[Posterboy]

50 minutes ago, ch88 said:

Could be.  Also overall nutritional intake I am sure is relevant. One of the studies that you mentioned stated:

"We hypothesised that the effects of each of the MTHFR and MTRR polymorphisms on tHcy depend on riboflavin status. High folate status in the case of MTHFR or cobalamin in the case of MTRR may mask or override riboflavin-dependent effects. We tested our hypothesis in adults that were unexposed to mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid or to B vitamin supplement use. "

Some of the people in the study might have nutritional deficiencies in their diet. If you combine that with a genetic variant I could see why MTHFR might effect someones heath.

ch88,

I found it interesting that nutritional status was/has been shown to effect gene variants.

B-Vitamins are how we  handle/down regulate stress in our body. ..being low in one/or more of these Vitamins causes us to loose our fight with inflammation, sickness and disease often I believe.

Here is nice overview on Riboflavin and how it operates a cofactor in things like Iron deficient anemia.

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin

I call it picking the wrong twin...symptom's overlap and once you are low in one nutrient you are often low in many others.....this is especially the case with B-2 Riboflavin because it is a cofactor in the synthesis of other metabolic pathways like the homocysteine cycle etc.

this research explains how these reactions/pathway are broken because we first become low in B-2 Riboflavin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12791609 

I try and find the nutritional cause when their is one...sometimes you can link it all the way back ...sometimes you can't.

It explains why stress is common before a celiac diagnosis because we become low in our B-Vitamins.

And why Stress has been linked to Gastritis.  See this research entitled "Stress-Induced Gastritis."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29763101

But often people don't know about these connections like this link establishing Magnesium deficiency to depression...but most people still don't know about these connections even though the research is often 10 to 15 years old.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786/

I just wish doctor's did more of this research so their patients could benefit from their knowledge.....it is too bad really ...the patients sometimes know much about their disease as they doctor's do.

I have rambled long enough....check out/research some more on B-2 aka Riboflavin, Ch88 and I think you will be surprised how many body systems it effects once someone becomes low in it.

Taking it (B-2) will make your urine yellow... the longer it takes to make it yellow the lower you are in it.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[ch88]

3 hours ago, Posterboy said:

I have rambled long enough....check out/research some more on B-2 aka Riboflavin, Ch88 and I think you will be surprised how many body systems it effects once someone becomes low in it.

I am for supplementation. I supplement with various vitamins and minerals including magnesium. I am aware that there is a strong connection between depression/stress and magnesium deficiency. 

This thread may be going a little bit off topic though.

[Posterboy]

19 hours ago, ch88 said:

I am for supplementation. I supplement with various vitamins and minerals including magnesium. I am aware that there is a strong connection between depression/stress and magnesium deficiency. 

This thread may be going a little bit off topic though.

Ch88 and Trents,

I didn't get to finish my thought....earlier trents said  he had not a had "migraine episode" since he changed his Magnesium to a glycinate or had recently started a Magnesium supplement. ..or something to that effect....

Turns out there is a connection between Serotonin production and Magnesium and it might be why he hasn't had a migraine since he has started using a good bioavialable magnesium form.

see this nice article about on mental heath today.

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/05/06/how-to-increase-serotonin-levels/

while many thing can accomplish this.. .changes in serotonin,....magnesium is a natural cofactor for serotonin production....I will quote from their paragraph on cofactors for serotonin production. quoting

Vitamin Cofactors

"To ensure optimal conversion of many supplements into serotonin, it is important to consider taking vitamin cofactors.  These cofactors often aid in the conversion of supplements like 5-HTP and L-Tryptophan to serotonin.  Vitamin cofactors also can decrease reactive oxygen species (i.e. free radicals), which may have detrimental effects on serotonin levels.

• Magnesium: If you aren’t getting enough magnesium in your diet, your serotonin levels probably are subpar.  Low levels of dietary magnesium are directly correlated with low levels of serotonin.  Antidepressants are known to increase the amount of magnesium in the brain.  A study from 2008 discovered that magnesium supplementation was equal in efficacy to tricyclic antidepressants for the treatment of depression among diabetics.
• Vitamin B Complex: It is recommended to consider taking a vitamin B-complex to ensure that other supplements get properly converted into serotonin (5-HT).  Various B-vitamins such as B6 and B12 are associated with reduced risk of depression.  Others such as B2 and B3 aid in the conversion process of 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine into serotonin.  If you don’t want to take a B-complex, make sure you’re getting the specific B-vitamins to aid in conversion of serotonergic supplements.  Some sources recommend 50 mg to 100 mg of a B-complex daily.
• Vitamin B6: This is a specific B-vitamin that aids in the production of serotonin, melatonin, and dopamine.  If you are lacking in Vitamin B6, your serotonin level probably isn’t as high as it could be.  This can be obtained through foods such as spinach, celery, fish, poultry, lean beef, and cauliflower."

It is me again ...so you see changing to a bioavialable form of Magnesium could cause more serotonin to be produced naturally thus alleviating the migraine... and depression.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advise.

Posterboy,

[trents]

It's not unusual for me to go for months without a migraine. When I get them, they come in clusters. Too early to draw any conclusions yet.