Is there a test or something to tell me if its just a gluten intolerance?

[knitty kitty]

Wheatwacked, 

I found some studies, too.... both thiamine and niacin have effects on hyperlipidemia.  Thiamine and niacin are both required in the Krebs Cycle.  

For every 1000 calories, you should get 0.6mg of thiamine.  Those potato chips don't have any thiamine, they are empty calories.  You need more thiamine to digest them than they contain.

"The Potential Role of Thiamine (Vitamin B1) in Diabetic Complications"

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cdr/2005/00000001/00000003/art00008

High dose thiamine also corrected dyslipidemia in experimental diabetes - normalizing cholesterol and triglycerides.

And...

"Thiamine deficiency and cardiovascular disorders"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0939475318302011

And...

"High‐Dose Thiamine Therapy Counters Dyslipidemia and Advanced Glycation of Plasma Protein in Streptozotocin‐Induced Diabetic Rats"

https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1196/annals.1333.090

And...

"New developments in the use of niacin for treatment of hyperlipidemia: new considerations in the use of an old drug"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8853585/

And...

"Niacin in the Treatment of Hyperlipidemias in Light of New Clinical Trials: Has Niacin Lost its Place?"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4523006/

And...

"Use of niacin in the prevention and management of hyperlipidemia"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11252872/

Hope this helps you find answers! 

 

[Wheatwacked]

On 2/16/2021 at 6:46 PM, knitty kitty said:

For every 1000 calories, you should get 0.6mg of thiamine.

188 grams potato chips = 1000 calories (50% RDA) = 0.4mg thiamine (33% RDA), 30% iron, 28% magnesium. 41% phosphorus, 48% potassium, 49% copper, 35% manganese, 32% vitamin C, 56% niacin, 36% vitamin B6 pantothenic acid, 59% B6, 131% vitamin E, 35% vitamin K, 45% carbohydrates. The potassium to sodium ratio is 2248:991 (2.3:1). There is good stuff in potatoes but by no means a total diet.

I already eat >10g parsley a day for >100% vitamin K. I have concerns about high dose thiamine because it lowers total cholesterol by lowering only HDL and my HDL is already too low. My brother lowered all his numbers back in 2002 on the Atkins diet, but that is not sustainable. He is back on diuretics and statins. The leads you and Posterboy gave are very helpful. Thanks. I was only on my current diet two weeks before the labs, but glucose <100, A1c in normal range, creatinine/ eGFR improved. Oh, after 8 years on prednisone I have been off it for a week and it feels like this time for good.

[stirling strauss]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:23 AM, Scott Adams said:

Welcome to the forum. I'm not aware of a Zonulin test, but am aware of at least one company targeting a drug that regulates Zonulin levels that may one day help treat celiac disease.

Please correct me if l am incorrect. The Thymus (motherboard as in autoimmune) produces Zonulin which flattens the Villi creating the leaky gut, It was shown to be very prevalent in those that suffer Gluten Intolerant. 

 

 

On 2/17/2021 at 4:23 AM, Scott Adams said:

Welcome to the forum. I'm not aware of a Zonulin test, but am aware of at least one company targeting a drug that regulates Zonulin levels that may one day help treat celiac disease.

 

[trents]

Stirling, can you link some information supporting your assertion? From what I have read, the thymus is part of the immune system having to do with the development of T cells, particularly in childhood and adolescence, which in turn form an arsenal of foreign invader antibodies. The thymus typically undergoes atrophy and by adulthood has become much less active. In quick googling I did not find anything about the connection between the thymus and zonulin or thymus and leaky gut.

Edited February 18, 2021 by trents

[pokey449]

On 2/11/2021 at 11:35 AM, Scott Adams said:

There are tests in development that show promise, but none yet available...for example:

 I believe that many who have high levels of gluten antibodies, but don't cross the specific threshold to call it celiac disease, or those who have negative blood tests but mild villi blunting and the doctors tell them they are negative for celiac disease, may be in the gluten sensitive category. Many in these categories won't find relief from their symptoms until they go gluten-free, and we see this over and over on this forum.

I am in this category. I have mild villi blunting but no other diagnostic indications. Ive been gluten free for 6 months, well except for the regular oatmeal that I found out a couple weeks ago might be gluten contaminated. So I switched to gluten free oatmeal and I am still having sxs. Lots of nausea. I was diagnosed and treated for SIBO and I went off my PPI that I had been on for 17 years. Its hard to tell where sxs for one kind of GI problem stop and those of another begin it seems. I keep having nausea and RUQ pain that comes and goes despite a low FODMAP, gluten free diet. I ad a CT last week that showed nothing as well. I am about ready to ask my PCP to send me to a really good GI center as I am starting to lose faith that the local docs here know what the hell they are doing. Im really tired of being miserable

[Scott Adams]

You may be in the category of having an intolerance to oat protein (avenin), around 10% of celiacs have this issue. If so, this would mean that you have to eliminate oats as well.

[pokey449]

48 minutes ago, Scott Adams said:

You may be in the category of having an intolerance to oat protein (avenin), around 10% of celiacs have this issue. If so, this would mean that you have to eliminate oats as well.

Yeh I’ve been wondering about that. I’ll avoid the oatmeal for a few days and see if that sheds any light. 

[Posterboy]

5 hours ago, pokey449 said:

I am in this category. I have mild villi blunting but no other diagnostic indications. Ive been gluten free for 6 months, well except for the regular oatmeal that I found out a couple weeks ago might be gluten contaminated. So I switched to gluten free oatmeal and I am still having sxs. Lots of nausea. I was diagnosed and treated for SIBO and I went off my PPI that I had been on for 17 years. Its hard to tell where sxs for one kind of GI problem stop and those of another begin it seems. I keep having nausea and RUQ pain that comes and goes despite a low FODMAP, gluten free diet. I ad a CT last week that showed nothing as well. I am about ready to ask my PCP to send me to a really good GI center as I am starting to lose faith that the local docs here know what the hell they are doing. Im really tired of being miserable

Pokey,

Try you a good B-complex if you are not taking one.

Low Thiamine levels can lead to SIBO.

Magnesium Glycinate or Magnesium Citrate (wtih meals) and Thiamine (As Benfotiamine) works wonders for GI problems.

When you get low in Thiamine.....you can develop Vagus Nerve disorders leading to motility issues in the GI tract...

Since most B-complexs don't have a fat soluble form like Benfotiamine they have low bioavailbilty....and also most people don't know B-Vitamins are water soluble so taking them frequently 2x to 3x is best for Season in time.....say 3 to 4 months to see if  you developed a B-Vitamin Deficiency from your SIBO.

While there is no "formula"  I have found Magnesium Glycinate and Benfotiamine (Fat Soluble B-1) and a B-complex twice a day with meals or just with meals.....works wonders in a couple months...

Here is some research you can read about it....

https://www.md-health.com/Vagus-Nerve.html

https://www.eonutrition.co.uk/post/got-sibo-here-s-why-you-need-to-get-your-thiamine-status-checked

I also wrote a couple Posterboy blog posts about  a Thiamine deficiency and/or B-Vitamin deficiencies in Celiac's that might might help you.

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2731-a-case-for-thiamine-supplemenation-in-celiacs-if-only-for-a-season-in-time/

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2709-the-lupus-inflammation-model-for-sickness-beginning-with-b-vitamin-deficiencies-in-celiacs-and-other-inflammation-triggered-diseases%E2%80%A6/

B-Vitamins help regulate our immune system and when we get low in them.....it goes haywire.

See this study that shows how in SIBO bacteria out compete us for B-Vitamins .....in time leading to Pellagra and skin issues...

But it begins with a Thiamine deficiency first...

Entitled [Pellagra and panniculitis induced by chronic bacterial colonisation of the small intestine]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15798565/

We only have ONE immune system but it has many faces  (symptom's)....

We see this from the above research about how Pellagra (IE skin issues) from Dysbiosis in GI patients can be treated with Niacinamide.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

Wheatwacked and Knitty Kitty,

I am going to start another thread on "Familial aka Genetic hyperlipidemia? so it doesn't get lost in this one...

And it might help other people more who are still looking for answers to these questions.

I hope this is helpful

Posterboy,

[Wheatwacked]

post the link here so I can find it

 Paul

[Posterboy]

21 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

post the link here so I can find it

 Paul

Wheatwacked,

Here you go!

 https://www.celiac.com/forums/topic/154681-familial-aka-genetic-hyperlipidemia-ie-high-cholesterol-what-have-you-find-helpful/

Sometimes links underline (activate) and sometimes they don't and I don't know why....

But it can also be found my navigating to this part of the forum...

Home Forums Diagnosis & Recovery, Related Disorders & Research

Related Issues & Disorders

Or just copying the above link and posting it in a new browser page...

Or highlighting it (by selecting with your left mouse button clicked) and right clicking selecting "open link in new tab"

I hope this is helpful.

Posterboy,

[Beverage]

You test .... was it the FULL Celiac panel?  My sister got tested and the doc on tested one type of antibody.

[stirling strauss]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:25 AM, trents said:

Stirling, can you link some information supporting your assertion? From what I have read, the thymus is part of the immune system having to do with the development of T cells, particularly in childhood and adolescence, which in turn form an arsenal of foreign invader antibodies. The thymus typically undergoes atrophy and by adulthood has become much less active. In quick googling I did not find anything about the connection between the thymus and zonulin or thymus and leaky gut.

 

Zonulin, regulation of tight junctions, and autoimmune diseases

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC3384703

by A Fasano · ‎2012 · ‎Cited by 250 · ‎Related articles

1 July 2013 — Zonulin can be used as a biomarker of impaired gut barrier function for several autoimmune, neurodegenerative, and tumoral diseases (18), ...

‎Abstract · ‎Introduction · ‎Concluding remarks

 

Blurring the picture in leaky gut research: how shortcomings of ...

gut.bmj.com › early › 2020/10/09 › gutjnl-2020-323026

by L Massier · ‎2020 · ‎Cited by 3 · ‎Related articles

Zonulin as a biomarker is highly disputed.2 A recent study showed that zonulin-mediated intestinal barrier integrity is an important mechanism by which gut ...

How Zonulin Causes Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity - Gene Food

www.mygenefood.com › Blog › Personalized Nutrition

12 Nov 2020 — In turn this increased expression of zonulin is able to loosen tight junctions and increase gut permeability. What is unclear is if this is a normal ...

‎Structure and function of the... · ‎Zonulin in health and disease

 

Leaky gut, leaky brain: the role of zonulin | FX Medicine

www.fxmedicine.com.au › content › leaky-gut-leaky-b...

13 May 2016 — Gliadin from gluten causes zonulin levels to increase both in those people who have celiac disease and those who do not. Changes in gut microbiota ...

 

What is zonulin? - Creative Diagnostics

www.creative-diagnostics.com › blog › index.php › wh...

2 Apr 2018 — Zonulin makes the holes of the cheesecloth bigger and allows large particles to pass into the bloodstream and through the body. We call this increased intestinal permeability, or leaky gut.

 

Does Gluten Cause Leaky Gut Syndrome? - Healthline

www.healthline.com › nutrition › gluten-leaky-gut

8 Dec 2016 — Gluten Activates Zonulin, the Regulator of Intestinal Permeability. Several studies have shown that gluten can increase intestinal permeability and ...

 

A look at zonulin and leaky gut syndrome | Professionals

www.optibacprobiotics.com › latest-research › gut-health

29 Feb 2016 — The purpose of this function is to allow certain nutrients and solutes to get in to and out of the intestine. However, under certain conditions too ...

 

Targeting zonulin and intestinal epithelial barrier function to ...

www.nature.com › ... › articles › article

by N Tajik · ‎2020 · ‎Cited by 22 · ‎Related articles

24 Apr 2020 — Gut microbial dysbiosis is associated with the development of autoimmune ... Increased serum zonulin levels are accompanied by a leaky ...

Zonulin & Leaky Gut - Jill Carnahan, MD

www.jillcarnahan.com › Autoimmune Health

14 July 2013 — Gliadin causes zonulin levels to increase both in those people who have celiac disease and those who do not. As the zonulin level rises, the seal ...

Searches related to zonulin and leaky gut

1 minute ago, stirling strauss said:

 

Zonulin, regulation of tight junctions, and autoimmune diseases

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC3384703

by A Fasano · ‎2012 · ‎Cited by 250 · ‎Related articles

1 July 2013 — Zonulin can be used as a biomarker of impaired gut barrier function for several autoimmune, neurodegenerative, and tumoral diseases (18), ...

‎Abstract · ‎Introduction · ‎Concluding remarks

 

Blurring the picture in leaky gut research: how shortcomings of ...

gut.bmj.com › early › 2020/10/09 › gutjnl-2020-323026

by L Massier · ‎2020 · ‎Cited by 3 · ‎Related articles

Zonulin as a biomarker is highly disputed.2 A recent study showed that zonulin-mediated intestinal barrier integrity is an important mechanism by which gut ...

How Zonulin Causes Leaky Gut and Autoimmunity - Gene Food

www.mygenefood.com › Blog › Personalized Nutrition

12 Nov 2020 — In turn this increased expression of zonulin is able to loosen tight junctions and increase gut permeability. What is unclear is if this is a normal ...

‎Structure and function of the... · ‎Zonulin in health and disease

 

Leaky gut, leaky brain: the role of zonulin | FX Medicine

www.fxmedicine.com.au › content › leaky-gut-leaky-b...

13 May 2016 — Gliadin from gluten causes zonulin levels to increase both in those people who have celiac disease and those who do not. Changes in gut microbiota ...

 

What is zonulin? - Creative Diagnostics

www.creative-diagnostics.com › blog › index.php › wh...

2 Apr 2018 — Zonulin makes the holes of the cheesecloth bigger and allows large particles to pass into the bloodstream and through the body. We call this increased intestinal permeability, or leaky gut.

 

Does Gluten Cause Leaky Gut Syndrome? - Healthline

www.healthline.com › nutrition › gluten-leaky-gut

8 Dec 2016 — Gluten Activates Zonulin, the Regulator of Intestinal Permeability. Several studies have shown that gluten can increase intestinal permeability and ...

 

A look at zonulin and leaky gut syndrome | Professionals

www.optibacprobiotics.com › latest-research › gut-health

29 Feb 2016 — The purpose of this function is to allow certain nutrients and solutes to get in to and out of the intestine. However, under certain conditions too ...

 

Targeting zonulin and intestinal epithelial barrier function to ...

www.nature.com › ... › articles › article

by N Tajik · ‎2020 · ‎Cited by 22 · ‎Related articles

24 Apr 2020 — Gut microbial dysbiosis is associated with the development of autoimmune ... Increased serum zonulin levels are accompanied by a leaky ...

Zonulin & Leaky Gut - Jill Carnahan, MD

www.jillcarnahan.com › Autoimmune Health

14 July 2013 — Gliadin causes zonulin levels to increase both in those people who have celiac disease and those who do not. As the zonulin level rises, the seal ...

Searches related to zonulin and leaky gut

There's a lot more advance studies that support this....

[knitty kitty]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:24 AM, stirling strauss said:

Please correct me if l am incorrect. The Thymus (motherboard as in autoimmune) produces Zonulin which flattens the Villi creating the leaky gut, It was shown to be very prevalent in those that suffer Gluten Intolerant. 

 

 

 

Stirling,

The point of contention is that the thymus produces zonulin.  

I've only read about zonulin being produced and released by cells in the gastrointestinal tract.

"Zonulin, regulation of tight junctions, and autoimmune diseases"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3384703/#!po=14.6552

"We have generated evidence that small intestines exposed to enteric bacteria secrete zonulin.

This secretion was independent either of the animal species from which the small intestines were isolated or the virulence of the microorganisms tested, occurred only on the luminal aspect of the bacteria-exposed small intestinal mucosa, and was followed by an increase in intestinal permeability coincident with the disengagement of the protein ZO-1 from the tight junctional complex (28). This zonulin-driven opening of the paracellular pathway may represent a defensive mechanism, which flushes out microorganisms so contributing to the innate immune response of the host against bacterial colonization of the small intestine.

Beside bacterial exposure, we have shown that gliadin, a storage protein present in wheat and that triggers celiac disease in genetically susceptible individuals, also affect the intestinal barrier function by releasing zonulin (29). This effect of gliadin is polarized, i.e., gliadin increases intestinal permeability only when administered on the luminal side of the intestinal tissue (29)."

And....

"Zonulin, a regulator of epithelial and endothelial barrier functions, and its involvement in chronic inflammatory diseases"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5214347/#!po=8.80282

"The human intestine is lined up by a single layer of epithelial cells that represents the largest interface between the environment and the host. The structural arrangement of the intestinal mucosa suggests an intimate cross talk between epithelial cells and the underneath immune system for the coordinated surveillance of the content of the intestinal lumen. The intestinal mucosa is charged with task of maintaining the balance between the absorption of nutrients and ions, the secretion of fluids, and the protection from microorganisms, toxins, and dietary antigens present in the lumen. The epithelial cells are held together by tight junctions, adherens junctions and desmosomes.

Tight junctions are the most apical junctional complex connecting both neighboring epithelial and endothelial cells, first described in 1963 by Farquhar and Paladeand, and are comprised of transmembrane proteins including occludin,15claudins,16 junctional adhesion molecules (JAM),17 tricellulin,18 and angulins.19 These transmembrane proteins interact between themselves (both homophilic and heterophilic interactions) and with intracellular scaffolding proteins, including zonula occludins (ZOs), which are anchored to the actin cytoskeleton. The interaction of occludins, claudins, JAMs and tricellulin between cells and with ZOs maintain the integrity of the tight junction and control the passage of molecules through the paracellular space."

 

[trents]

Stirling, ditto to what knitty kitty said. I was not disputing the key role of zonulin in regulating intestinal permeability. I was questioning the role of the thymus in the production of zonulin. Sorry the misunderstanding caused you all the trouble of collecting massive evidence for what I agree with you on.

[stirling strauss]

37 minutes ago, trents said:

Stirling, ditto to what knitty kitty said. I was not disputing the key role of zonulin in regulating intestinal permeability. I was questioning the role of the thymus in the production of zonulin. Sorry the misunderstanding caused you all the trouble of collecting massive evidence for what I agree with you on.

No problems from here, l am not one for faking news. It's why l say correct me if l am incorrect.