Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Sourdough bread and gluten challenge


Cagirlintexas

Recommended Posts

Cagirlintexas Newbie

Can’t find a good answer.  I have consistently been eating 2 pieces of sourdough bread a day for  at least 3-4 months.  Diagnosed with sibo 2 years ago, testing negative now but still symptoms.   Doctor tested for celiacs and came back negative.  Was this enough gluten.  Going to do genetic test but also considering redoing gluten challenge using vital wheat gluten.    


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



trents Grand Master

There have been some studies that suggested sourdough bread is less "toxic" than other breads made from gluten containing flour. And there are some anecdotal accounts where people with celiac disease claim they can eat sourdough bread without repercussions, symptomatically speaking. But I don't think the scientific community or the celiac community is ready to give it a green light yet. And it may vary from celiac to celiac.

At any rate, if you are planning on going in for testing, the pretest gluten consumption guidelines for the blood antibody test are 6-8 weeks of the gluten equivalent of 2 slices of wheat bread (not sourdough) daily and for the endoscopy/biopsy, at least two weeks of daily gluten consumption in the same amount. Because of the question marks about the effect of the sourdough process on gluten toxicity, I would not count it toward pretest gluten consumption.

Cagirlintexas Newbie

Thank you!  That makes complete sense to me.  I had asked the doctor if sourdough was okay and he said it was fine but I had my doubts.  I will redo the test using vital wheat gluten.  Any idea how much needs to be consumed per day.  Just got a bag at the store.  I know that is low FODMAP so was hoping I wouldn’t react as strongly but we will see.

 

trents Grand Master

As far as grams of gluten per day needing to be consumed pretest I can not give you an amount but if you re-read my first post it is the equivalent of what is found in two slices of wheat bread per day. Might be easier just to buy a commercially produced loaf of bread.

Ennis-TX Grand Master

I think the vital what gluten was used before, I think the person did a few tsp a day of it? I do not think they ever got back to us. Vital Wheat gluten should be the gluten proteins left after the starch has been washed away. Google says a slice of bread is 4.8grams of gluten, so 2 slices per req. would be roughly 10 grams or 2tsp. For good measure double that with vital wheat protein would be my bet. 

Scott Adams Grand Master

I agree with @trents that enough gluten could have been removed from the sourdough bread to make you pass the test, and here are some articles on this:

https://www.celiac.com/search/?q=sourdough&quick=1&type=cms_records2&search_in=titles

Can I ask about why it's so important to get a positive test? Most people have non-celiac gluten sensitivity (~12%), and there are currently no tests for this. 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      128,017
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    AveryBsmom
    Newest Member
    AveryBsmom
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121k
    • Total Posts
      70.6k

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • cristiana
      Hi @Karmmacalling I'm very sorry to hear you are feeling so unwell.  Can you tell us exactly what sort of pain you are experiencing and where the pain is?  Is it your lower abdomen, upper abdomen etc?  Do you have any other symptoms? Cristiana
    • trents
      The NIH article you link actually supports what I have been trying to explain to you: "Celiac disease (celiac disease) is an autoimmune-mediated enteropathy triggered by dietary gluten in genetically prone individuals. The current treatment for celiac disease is a strict lifelong gluten-free diet. However, in some celiac disease patients following a strict gluten-free diet, the symptoms do not remit. These cases may be refractory celiac disease or due to gluten contamination; however, the lack of response could be related to other dietary ingredients, such as maize, which is one of the most common alternatives to wheat used in the gluten-free diet. In some celiac disease patients, as a rare event, peptides from maize prolamins could induce a celiac-like immune response by similar or alternative pathogenic mechanisms to those used by wheat gluten peptides. This is supported by several shared features between wheat and maize prolamins and by some experimental results. Given that gluten peptides induce an immune response of the intestinal mucosa both in vivo and in vitro, peptides from maize prolamins could also be tested to determine whether they also induce a cellular immune response. Hypothetically, maize prolamins could be harmful for a very limited subgroup of celiac disease patients, especially those that are non-responsive, and if it is confirmed, they should follow, in addition to a gluten-free, a maize-free diet." Notice that those for whom it is suggested to follow a maize-free diet are a "very limited subgroup of celiac disease patients". Please don't try to make your own experience normative for the entire celiac community.  Notice also that the last part of the concluding sentence in the paragraph does not equate a gluten-free diet with a maize-free diet, it actually puts them in juxtaposition to one another. In other words, they are different but for a "limited subgroup of celiac disease patients" they produce the same or a similar reaction. You refer to celiac reactions to cereal grain prolamins as "allergic" reactions and "food sensitivity". For instance, you say, "NIH sees all these grains as in opposition to celiacs, of which I am one and that is science, not any MD with a good memory who overprescribes medications that contain known food allergens in them, of which they have zero knowledge if the patient is in fact allergic to or not, since they failed to do simple 'food sensitivity' testing" and "IF a person wants to get well, they should be the one to determine what grains they are allergic to and what grains they want to leave out, not you. I need to remind you that celiac disease is not an allergy, it is an autoimmune disorder. Neither allergy testing nor food sensitivity testing can be used to diagnose celiac disease. Allergy testing and food sensitivity testing cannot detect the antibodies produced by celiac disease in reaction to gluten ingestion.  You say of me, "You must be one of those who are only gluten intolerant . . ." Gluten intolerance is synonymous with celiac disease. You must be referring to gluten sensitivity or NCGS (Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity). Actually, I have been officially diagnosed with celiac disease both by blood antibody testing and by endoscopy/positive biopsy. Reacting to all cereal grain prolamins does not define celiac disease. If you are intent on teaching the truth, please get it straight first.
    • Bebygirl01
      Perhaps you would still like to answer the questions I posed on this topic, because that is all I asked. I am curious to know the answers to those questions, I do not care about the background of Dr. Osborne as I am more aware of the situation than you are, and he is also one of the best known authors out there on Celiac disease. But did you even bother to read the three Research Papers I posted by NIH? You must be one of those who are only gluten intolerant and not yet reacting to all glutens aka grains, but I AM one of those who react to ALL the glutens, and again, that is one of the two questions I originally posted on this matter. NIH sees all these grains as in opposition to celiacs, of which I am one and that is science, not any MD with a good memory who overprescribes medications that contain known food allergens in them, of which they have zero knowledge if the patient is in fact allergic to or not, since they failed to do simple 'food sensitivity' testing. I started with the failed FDA explanation of what Gluten Free is and I stayed sick and got even sicker. It wasn't until I came across NIH's papers and went off all grains that I realized that in fact, I am Celiac and reacting to all the glutens. IF a person wants to get well, they should be the one to determine what grains they are allergic to and what grains they want to leave out, not you. Those who are just getting started with learning about grains etc., can take it easy by just being "grain free' and eating a lot of meat, vegetables, etc. or whole foods as God has intended, without buying so called gluten free garbage out there that is making them sick and the whole reason they are not better. I tried the stupid gluten free garbage and it didn't work, and that will make anyone want to give up, it is better to teach the entire truth and let the patient decide, rather than give them misinformation and lies.
    • Nicola McGuire
      Thank you so much I will speak to the doctor for dietician apt . Thank you for your advice Beth much appreciated 
    • Scott Adams
      Oh no, I'm sorry to hear about the accidental gluten! This article, and the comments below it, may be helpful:    
×
×
  • Create New...