bad breath

[chris96856]

i was having a bad breath issue so i went to my dentist an he said my teeth are clean and healthy and the to my gp and he did acids flexes medicine and did not improved and by the way i always have to poop every time i finish a meal so like 4 times a day and half the time i am in Diarrheal which is not normal then i tried to do a diet that i do not mix between carb and protein a meal and one source of protein a meal and i ate carbs alone in another meal and i am trying to avoid bread as well so after that i noticed that my breath in the morning is way better and i just go to the toilet twice a day and i did not know what the issue with me..

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, chris96856!

Have you been diagnosed with celiac disease or with non celiac gluten sensitivity? You don't mention that so just wondering why you are posting in a forum about gluten-related disorders. Do you suspect you have celiac disease or NCGS?

[chris96856]

  On 8/25/2021 at 1:22 PM, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, chris96856!

Have you been diagnosed with celiac disease or with non celiac gluten sensitivity? You don't mention that so just wondering why you are posting in a forum about gluten-related disorders. Do you suspect you have celiac disease or NCGS?

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to be honest i don't know if i do have celiac disease  i was wondering if someone could help me to find what is the issue if it celiac disease or non celiac gluten sensitivity.

thanks a lot..

[trents]

You might try going gluten free for a period of time and see if things improve. Don't cut out all carbs. Just eliminate all sources of wheat, barley and rye. Those are the gluten-containing grains.

[Scott Adams]

I also want to mention that if you wanted to be screened for celiac disease using a blood test, that you need to keep eating gluten for at least 6-8 weeks before the test. You could, of course, just try the diet to see if it helps, but this approach could also cost you knowing whether or not you have celiac disease (~1% of the population).

Unfortunately there is not test yet for non-celiac gluten sensitivity, which ~12% of people have.

[knitty kitty]

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) could be causing some of your symptoms.  SIBO can occur with or without Celiac Disease.  

Getting blood tests for Celiac Disease antibodies while still consuming gluten products would be the way to go.

A DNA test for the most common genes for Celiac Disease is also an option. Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity wouldn't have these genes.  Not all genes for Celiac Disease are known, but not having the most common ones could be another step towards diagnosis.  

Hope this helps.

[chris96856]

  On 8/25/2021 at 4:17 PM, trents said:

You might try going gluten free for a period of time and see if things improve. Don't cut out all carbs. Just eliminate all sources of wheat, barley and rye. Those are the gluten-containing grains.

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Thank you, i will give it a try..

[chris96856]

  On 8/25/2021 at 4:40 PM, Scott Adams said:

I also want to mention that if you wanted to be screened for celiac disease using a blood test, that you need to keep eating gluten for at least 6-8 weeks before the test. You could, of course, just try the diet to see if it helps, but this approach could also cost you knowing whether or not you have celiac disease (~1% of the population).

Unfortunately there is not test yet for non-celiac gluten sensitivity, which ~12% of people have.

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yeah i just did celiac disease test waiting for the result and yeah i have not stopped eating gluten yet so lets see..

[chris96856]

  On 8/26/2021 at 2:02 AM, knitty kitty said:

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) could be causing some of your symptoms.  SIBO can occur with or without Celiac Disease.  

Getting blood tests for Celiac Disease antibodies while still consuming gluten products would be the way to go.

A DNA test for the most common genes for Celiac Disease is also an option. Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity wouldn't have these genes.  Not all genes for Celiac Disease are known, but not having the most common ones could be another step towards diagnosis.  

Hope this helps.

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Thank you very much, i did celiac disease blood test today, waiting for the result.

[AlwaysLearning]

Yes, the fast digestion you describe is one of the symptoms an undiagnosed celiac might experience if they were eating gluten on a regular-enough basis to have developed what I think of as pretty severe symptoms. But in my experience before going gluten free, to get those symptoms, I'd have to be eating twice as much gluten as you need to eat to have positive test results. I think it is what, two pieces of bread every day for six weeks in order for test results to be conclusive. I think of that as being a medium amount of gluten. Eat twice that every day, and yeah, the fast digestion would be kicking in. 

But if you go gluten free as a way to test to see if gluten is affecting you, you can expect your reactions to gluten to become MUCH worse, to the point that if you do have celiac, you might never again be able to eat enough gluten to get tested. My reactions to gluten now are pretty extreme now that I'm gluten free. For instance, I didn't used to react to makeup that contained gluten, but now I do. And I'm one of those people who can tell when a product was made in a shared facility even if it has a gluten-free label.

So before trying a gluten free diet, think about what motivates you. Are you a person who needs a positive test result to help motivate you to go or to stay gluten free, especially once you realize that truly being gluten free means never eating out again? Or are you the type who is going to be able to stay gluten free if your current symptoms clear up after going gluten free?

Even if you don't have celiac, I do wish you the best of luck. I'm sure there are many here who know that it can be extremely difficult to get a correct diagnosis for digestive issues!

[chris96856]

  On 8/29/2021 at 5:28 AM, AlwaysLearning said:

Yes, the fast digestion you describe is one of the symptoms an undiagnosed celiac might experience if they were eating gluten on a regular-enough basis to have developed what I think of as pretty severe symptoms. But in my experience before going gluten free, to get those symptoms, I'd have to be eating twice as much gluten as you need to eat to have positive test results. I think it is what, two pieces of bread every day for six weeks in order for test results to be conclusive. I think of that as being a medium amount of gluten. Eat twice that every day, and yeah, the fast digestion would be kicking in. 

But if you go gluten free as a way to test to see if gluten is affecting you, you can expect your reactions to gluten to become MUCH worse, to the point that if you do have celiac, you might never again be able to eat enough gluten to get tested. My reactions to gluten now are pretty extreme now that I'm gluten free. For instance, I didn't used to react to makeup that contained gluten, but now I do. And I'm one of those people who can tell when a product was made in a shared facility even if it has a gluten-free label.

So before trying a gluten free diet, think about what motivates you. Are you a person who needs a positive test result to help motivate you to go or to stay gluten free, especially once you realize that truly being gluten free means never eating out again? Or are you the type who is going to be able to stay gluten free if your current symptoms clear up after going gluten free?

Even if you don't have celiac, I do wish you the best of luck. I'm sure there are many here who know that it can be extremely difficult to get a correct diagnosis for digestive issues!

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Thank very much for your advice, just to let you know when i did the test i was just 5 day on diet and it wasn't that strict diets because one day of those five i ate 1/3 of pizza and some biscuits at morning so i was not that strict about it and even before i started the diet i was eating 2 to 3 pieces of bread everyday which is my daily routine, so do you think a not strict diet for 5 days could affect the results?

i want to add something that i always feel tired without reason and i do have migraines..

does those stuff prove any disease ?

by the way tomorrow is the test results..

[AlwaysLearning]

The only way to "prove" you have celiac is to be tested. To get accurate test results, you have to be consuming a consistent amount of gluten every day for at least a month, maybe two. The test looks at the antibodies that build up in your system as a reaction to eating gluten, so if you haven't been eating enough for long enough or if you took a break from eating gluten, a test may not give accurate results.

The list of symptoms that can be caused by gluten is VERY long. Because it is an autoimmune disease, your own body attacking itself despite there not being a real threat to attack, everyone can be affected differently. And one autoimmune disease is likely to trigger another. So while one person might have mainly digestive symptoms, another might have brain issues. Or one person might end up with arthritis while another only has sleep issues.

But yes, the symptoms you are mentioning are frequently associated with celiac or gluten sensitivity so it definitely makes sense to explore this avenue.

When it comes to continuing to eat gluten so that you can get accurate test vs. going gluten free to see if you feel better, that is entirely up to you. There are pros and cons for either option. Many people need test results to prove they have celiac in order to maintain the will power to stay gluten free. Others feel so much better after going gluten free that they would never dream of going back despite what it means for their social life.

If you live in the United States, note that you might end up paying higher health insurance premiums if you have tested positive for celiac, depending on the insurer and the plan. But you can also claim tax deductions for the extra cost of gluten-free foods if you can prove that you tested positive. 

Because you've already been avoiding gluten to some extent, getting accurate test results might already be problematic. If your results are positive, then you're done, but if they are negative, you will have to decide if you want to continue to consume gluten for another couple of months and get retested, or if you want to try going gluten free.

Remember, if you have celiac and you go gluten free before you get definitive test results, you might never be able to get tested because your reactions to gluten are going to become MUCH worse. You'll have to wait for them to develop a new test that doesn't require you to eat gluten.

But it sounds to me as if you have two main stressors to deal with right now. You have the aches and pains as you deal with health issues. And you have the unknown of a diagnosis. Unfortunately, you are in kind of a limbo land for now, and will likely stay there until you get definitive test results, either soon or in a couple months after a retest, or if you don't have celiac, for the foreseeable future. Just know that you are not alone in that. Many of us spent decades looking for answers.

But even if you don't end up testing positive for celiac, I would encourage you to still apply what you've learned to your eating habits. For instance, going gluten free helps even non-celiacs have better digestion. Gluten is known to be an inflammatory food and anyone with any autoimmune disease is likely to benefit from reducing their consumption. And gluten does have an addictive component, so going in and out of eating it can cause withdrawal, just like going back and forth from consuming caffeine. 

Because there is no money to be earned from pharmaceuticals to treat celiac, there is little research being done, so there is still a lot we don't know.

Best of luck to you and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you get answers sooner rather than later.

[chris96856]

  On 8/29/2021 at 5:28 AM, AlwaysLearning said:

Yes, the fast digestion you describe is one of the symptoms an undiagnosed celiac might experience if they were eating gluten on a regular-enough basis to have developed what I think of as pretty severe symptoms. But in my experience before going gluten free, to get those symptoms, I'd have to be eating twice as much gluten as you need to eat to have positive test results. I think it is what, two pieces of bread every day for six weeks in order for test results to be conclusive. I think of that as being a medium amount of gluten. Eat twice that every day, and yeah, the fast digestion would be kicking in. 

But if you go gluten free as a way to test to see if gluten is affecting you, you can expect your reactions to gluten to become MUCH worse, to the point that if you do have celiac, you might never again be able to eat enough gluten to get tested. My reactions to gluten now are pretty extreme now that I'm gluten free. For instance, I didn't used to react to makeup that contained gluten, but now I do. And I'm one of those people who can tell when a product was made in a shared facility even if it has a gluten-free label.

So before trying a gluten free diet, think about what motivates you. Are you a person who needs a positive test result to help motivate you to go or to stay gluten free, especially once you realize that truly being gluten free means never eating out again? Or are you the type who is going to be able to stay gluten free if your current symptoms clear up after going gluten free?

Even if you don't have celiac, I do wish you the best of luck. I'm sure there are many here who know that it can be extremely difficult to get a correct diagnosis for digestive issues!

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the test result are out and IGA and IgG both are not detected and the iron  and ferritin were normal but tranferrin sat percentage was 51% while it should be between 13-47 %

so my gp gave me a referral to a  gastroenterologist so i do not know what should i do next...

[trents]

You had no IGA and no IgG? That doesn't make sense. Which IGA antibody or antibodies and which IgG antibody or antibodies were they testing for? Are you saying that whatever antibodies they were testing for in these two categories were negative? Negative is the same as none. Can you post the actual tests and their numbers? Maybe this will help: https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/screening-and-diagnosis/screening/

Edited August 30, 2021 by trents

[chris96856]

 

  On 8/30/2021 at 1:45 PM, trents said:

You had no IGA and no IgG? That doesn't make sense. Which IGA antibody or antibodies and which IgG antibody or antibodies were they testing for? Are you saying that whatever antibodies they were testing for in these two categories were negative? Negative is the same as none. Can you post the actual tests and their numbers? Maybe this will help: https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/screening-and-diagnosis/screening/

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Yes i mean negative, i was trying to post the whole test but it is not letting me attach more than 500 kb file

[trents]

Just type the results in the text box rather than attach. What I'm wondering is specifically what IGA and IgG tests were run. Many physicians will only order the Ttg-IGA instead of a full celiac panel that includes several IGA and IgG tests.

[chris96856]

  On 8/30/2021 at 3:39 PM, trents said:

Just type the results in the text box rather than attach. What I'm wondering is specifically what IGA and IgG tests were run. Many physicians will only order the Ttg-IGA instead of a full celiac panel that includes several IGA and IgG tests.

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1. Deamidated Gliadin IgG AB (BIoplex) : negative
2. t- transglutaminase  IgA   AB (BIoplex) : negative
3. 25- hydroxy vitamin D   73   ( RANGE >50)
4.  Ferratin 72 ug/l    (range 30-320)
5. iron 28  umol/l      (range 10-30)
6. transferrin 2.2 g/l   (range 2.0-3.6)
7. transferrin sat 51%   (range 13-47%)
8. total chol  5.5 mmol/l (range <4.0)
9. triglyceride 0.7 mmol/l (range<2.0)
10. HDL-C 1.4 MMOL/L  (range => 1.0)
11. LDL-C  3.8 mmol/l  ( range <2.0)
12. non- HDL  -C 4.1 mmol/l ( range <2.5)
13. chol/HDL ratio; 3.9 (range <3.5)
14. vitamin b12 : 331 pmol/l (range 150-700)
15. serum folate 39.8 nmol/l  (range > 9.0 )

 

 

 

[trents]

Nothing in those lab results suggests you have celiac disease. Even your iron markers and B12 are all just fine. These are things you would likely be deficient in if you had celiac disease. But you could have non celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) for which there is no test at the present time. NCGS produces a lot of the same symptoms but does not damage the lining of the small bowel as does celiac disease. If our symptoms improve when you eliminate wheat, barley and rye from your diet then I would assume NCGS.

Edited August 30, 2021 by trents

[chris96856]

  On 8/30/2021 at 4:34 PM, trents said:

Nothing in those lab results suggests you have celiac disease. Even your iron markers and B12 are all just fine. These are things you would likely be deficient in if you had celiac disease. But you could have non celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) for which there is no test at the present time. NCGS produces a lot of the same symptoms but does not damage the lining of the small bowel as does celiac disease. If our symptoms improve when you eliminate wheat, barley and rye from your diet then I would assume NCGS.

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if we assumed that i have NCGS, so is that means i need to on a strict gluten free diet all my life? or NCGS is different from celiac ?

and is there any plan to make sure that i have NCGS other than lab results?

by the way thank you for your time.

appreciate it a lot

[trents]

  On 8/31/2021 at 12:00 AM, chris96856 said:

if we assumed that i have NCGS, so is that means i need to on a strict gluten free diet all my life? or NCGS is different from celiac ?

and is there any plan to make sure that i have NCGS other than lab results?

by the way thank you for your time.

appreciate it a lot

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The gold standard of distinguishing between celiac disease and NCGS is to have an endoscopy/biopsy done of the small bowel lining. NCGS does not damage the lining of the small bowel as does celiac disease. There is no test at the present time to directly diagnose NCGS. Yes, you need to be on a strict gluten-free diet the rest of your life if you want to keep the symptoms under control that brought you here.

[chris96856]

  On 8/31/2021 at 4:49 AM, trents said:

The gold standard of distinguishing between celiac disease and NCGS is to have an endoscopy/biopsy done of the small bowel lining. NCGS does not damage the lining of the small bowel as does celiac disease. There is no test at the present time to directly diagnose NCGS. Yes, you need to be on a strict gluten-free diet the rest of your life if you want to keep the symptoms under control that brought you here.

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Thank you so much, I’ll keep posting any new updates.

[Jackie Garrett]

Hello Chris

Milk can cause bad breath, so avoid Dairy for a while and see if it goes, milk contains Histamine and when our bodies   have become overloaded with histamine our DAO enzyme can not cope, so it doesn’t break things down like it should,  hence I believe that’s when all our Allergies start from Dairy, Gluten etc, I believe too much histamine in the body is to blame, I got myself well by lowering my histamine levels, by avoiding Dairy, things that contain Citric Acid/Lactic acid which is  in nearly everything we eat and drink, so this is how I got myself well, firstly I would like to say our poor bodies are not meant to digest a lot of the things we are eating and drinking today, we are not realising what is going into our food, which is raising our Histamine levels, so our poor body can’t cope, this is a fact, so what I have done is follow a low Histamine diet avoiding Dairy/ Lactose also Citric acid, read your labels, they are used as preservatives,  and watch out for that in medication too, it will raise your histamine levels and make you acidic, it did with me, there are alternatives, So I avoided Tea, Coffee, fermented food and drinks, alcohol, sauces, gravies and only occasionally ate food and drinks with preservatives in as it’s quite hard to avoid sometimes drank mainly water in the day and the odd peppermint/ Camomile Tea, keeping things in their natural state and my body in time started to heal it will take time, our bodies need to be respected and they will love us for it, we are not designed to fill it with toxins like man made Citric/ Lactic acid starter Cultures, the body is rejecting them and it accumulates in us making us unwell, but we are not told this, so I have worked this out myself and am now well and relieved to hopefully live a lot longer, once levels come down maybe the body can tolerate some things again but watch your Histamine levels you will soon know by your reactions, this is my opinion and what I have done to get well, no Dr. has told me this,  why, I wonder.

[trents]

All foods contain histamines but some are naturally high in histamines like bananas and avocados and many fruits. Aged, pickled and dried things are especially high in histamines as are canned foods. All foods increase in histamine levels over time when stored as in canned or preserved. There are also over the counter DAO supplements that purport to help but they are rather expensive.

[chris96856]

  On 8/31/2021 at 2:10 PM, Jackie Garrett said:

Hello Chris

Milk can cause bad breath, so avoid Dairy for a while and see if it goes, milk contains Histamine and when our bodies   have become overloaded with histamine our DAO enzyme can not cope, so it doesn’t break things down like it should,  hence I believe that’s when all our Allergies start from Dairy, Gluten etc, I believe too much histamine in the body is to blame, I got myself well by lowering my histamine levels, by avoiding Dairy, things that contain Citric Acid/Lactic acid which is  in nearly everything we eat and drink, so this is how I got myself well, firstly I would like to say our poor bodies are not meant to digest a lot of the things we are eating and drinking today, we are not realising what is going into our food, which is raising our Histamine levels, so our poor body can’t cope, this is a fact, so what I have done is follow a low Histamine diet avoiding Dairy/ Lactose also Citric acid, read your labels, they are used as preservatives,  and watch out for that in medication too, it will raise your histamine levels and make you acidic, it did with me, there are alternatives, So I avoided Tea, Coffee, fermented food and drinks, alcohol, sauces, gravies and only occasionally ate food and drinks with preservatives in as it’s quite hard to avoid sometimes drank mainly water in the day and the odd peppermint/ Camomile Tea, keeping things in their natural state and my body in time started to heal it will take time, our bodies need to be respected and they will love us for it, we are not designed to fill it with toxins like man made Citric/ Lactic acid starter Cultures, the body is rejecting them and it accumulates in us making us unwell, but we are not told this, so I have worked this out myself and am now well and relieved to hopefully live a lot longer, once levels come down maybe the body can tolerate some things again but watch your Histamine levels you will soon know by your reactions, this is my opinion and what I have done to get well, no Dr. has told me this,  why, I wonder.

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oh thank you jackie that's interesting information that i have not known.

but in that case i will stop being on gluten free or i will keep up with both which i think it is hard one, and for my bad breath i felt really better when i stopped gluten.

[Jackie Garrett]

  On 8/31/2021 at 2:58 PM, chris96856 said:

oh thank you jackie that's interesting information that i have not known.

but in that case i will stop being on gluten free or i will keep up with both which i think it is hard one, and for my bad breath i felt really better when i stopped gluten.

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Chris it’s whatever works for you,  I hope you get well whatever you try, I just share what’s worked for me hoping that it may work for some one else, maybe Drs. In time will offer these other options, maybe they don’t know yet, but I know and really do know what has worked for me. Good luck Chris I hope you sort everything.