Could this be the underlying cause of our allergies

[Jackie Garrett]

11 hours ago, AlwaysLearning said:

In response to the original post title, I do think there is a need to clarify between allergies and autoimmune diseases. For each, a different type of T cell is involved.

The link to the study posted appears to describe an autoimmune reaction to the proteins in milk, which would be a good parallel to the reactions that celiac's have to the gluten protein. And yes, if you are still looking for a diagnosis, considering dairy as a possible cause of problems the same as one would consider gluten as a cause for problems is logical. 

Autoimmune diseases are an immune reaction where tissue destruction occurs as the body attacks itself. The reaction might be triggered by what is seen as a foreign invader, but the reaction is misdirected, attacking your own body instead of the invader. For autoimmune reactions triggered by food, you can generally expect digestive issues though attacks can really occur anywhere in your body and take on a multitude of forms.

Allergies are an immune reaction to what is perceived as a foreign invader, but the reaction isn't to attack, rather to expel the invader, the same as the body might work to expel a virus or a parasite. The histamines are produced by your body and fit into receptors that trigger additional reactions, such as to produce mucus, to cough or to sneeze, to make your eyes water, or to make your skin itch. Even the more-extreme reactions of anaphylaxis is still the same reaction, just exaggerated, to try to expel.

And dairy might have two different ways to trigger allergic reactions. If you truly are allergic to dairy, then your body will produce histamines as a reaction. But foods can also contain histamines. Though dairy starts out low in histamines, the fermentation process for something like yoghurt can result in it having higher histamine content. 

The more histamines you have built up in your system already, the more likely you are to have an allergic-style reaction to foods that are high in histamines. You're not allergic to the food, you're just overloaded on histamines. If you eat a lot of avocados and nuts on a regular basis, you probably are familiar with the reaction of getting a little sneezy after meals.

But lactose intolerance, an autoimmune reaction, is not the same as a dairy allergy, which is an allergic reaction. I looked it up, but I did not get an answer on whether or not it is possible to be both lactose intolerant and allergic to dairy at the same time. But the University of Chicago says it is possible to have both celiac and have a wheat allergy at the same time.

Also note that if your thyroid is overactive, your body will be overproducing histamines no matter what you eat, and you could have what seem like allergic reactions to almost anything. Severe hyperthyroidism can mean even a light scratch across your skin can cause welts to rise (dermatographia). You might break out in hives just by washing your hands or going outside in cold weather. 

But there can be overlap. For example, if an autoimmune disease causes your body to attack your thyroid causing tissue damage that results in hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid), the result would be an over production of histamines resulting in an allergic-style reactions. It is no wonder so many have difficulty getting diagnosis.

But I think many of us who have celiac have used the term allergy to describe our condition at one time or another. Even though we know we're using the term incorrectly, it can be easier to just say you have food allergies than to try to explain something like celiac to the uninitiated, especially in a world where many believe that gluten free is just a crazy fad.

But I hope this explanation helps some future reader understand the crazy stuff their body is doing.

Thank you for your comment AlwaysLearning, basically your saying what I think about the body over producing histamine and all the problems that come with that, whenever I went to the Dr. never once did he mention about my histamine levels or my diet, they just wanted to prescribe, I had to find  my cure myself. Thank you for your comment.

[Jackie Garrett]

19 minutes ago, trents said:

Jackie, is your problem with dairy due to histamines or lactose or both? Many foods can trigger high histamine levels. Have you tried cutting those out too?

I believe my body didn’t like the histamine/ lactose from a different source,

hence accumulation in my body, hence making me sensitive to other foods with higher histamines in. I was becoming sensitive to most things, now I can have some of them again, I have reactions if I have had something with milk or lactic acid in, my body does not like it, I will have a number of symptoms from ingesting it.

[Jackie Garrett]

31 minutes ago, trents said:

Jackie, is your problem with dairy due to histamines or lactose or both? Many foods can trigger high histamine levels. Have you tried cutting those out too?

Hi Trents

I don’t know which part of milk histamine is made from, alcohol has histamine it also has lactic acid starter cultures so you see it’s both in there, so it’s hard for a lot of people to distinguish which one maybe they both  react with the body and cause problems.

[Scott Adams]

11 hours ago, Jackie Garrett said:

Sorry Scott, I didn’t finish answering your question yes if that’s what the science says, I am going against it, have they looked into the effects of a foreign histamine from an animal going into our body and what implications that has on our immune system. (That makes me sound like a Vegan and I am not, I eat meat) it is a different species though, so hence the histamine not natural to our system. What I do know is how I got myself well and wondered if this could be the reason why so many of us are getting ill today, why can’t a lot of the population tolerate it, do some of us not know what could be causing their symptom, like I didn’t realise up until this last year. I don’t know what research is being done on this subject, it’s working for me. I loved Dairy I miss it terribly,  maybe if they can remove the histamine/ Lactose in it it will all be ok for me to consume again. 

It's good to hear that you've figured out your issue, however, you are in a celiac disease forum, and not a lactose or casein intolerance forum, although that topic is also discussed here often, but in relation to celiac disease and gluten sensitivity, which, I believe that you don't have...is that correct?

Basically the solution that you found for yourself won't apply to those with celiac disease--they can't ever eat gluten again, unless some new medical treatment comes along to correct their autoimmune reaction. Certainly many celiacs and those with NCGS also have additional food intolerance issues, and casein is a fairly common one, but it's a mistake to tout casein intolerance as the cause of celiac disease or gluten sensitivity. You can see some of the research on this here:

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/casein-cows-milk-intolerance-and-celiac-disease/ 

[Jackie Garrett]

14 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

It's good to hear that you've figured out your issue, however, you are in a celiac disease forum, and not a lactose or casein intolerance forum, although that topic is also discussed here often, but in relation to celiac disease and gluten sensitivity, which, I believe that you don't have...is that correct?

Basically the solution that you found for yourself won't apply to those with celiac disease--they can't ever eat gluten again, unless some new medical treatment comes along to correct their autoimmune reaction. Certainly many celiacs and those with NCGS also have additional food intolerance issues, and casein is a fairly common one, but it's a mistake to tout casein intolerance as the cause of celiac disease or gluten sensitivity. You can see some of the research on this here:

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/casein-cows-milk-intolerance-and-celiac-disease/ 

There is Lactose in so many things, that a lot of people do not realise they are ingesting, so they are thinking they are not having any milk product when actually they are, so when everything is labelled correctly people will truly know what there intolerances are, I kept getting symptoms because I was having things with Lactic acid in and it wasn’t on the labels or it was called natural flavouring, it was when I avoided all these things that my health improved, I believe  the Lactose  is causing as many problems as the Casein, and why I had posted on the forum was maybe to help anyone with intolerances to just think what else could be causing it, apart from Gluten, just to rule things out. I really do have a strong belief  that milk is the underlying cause.

[Wheatwacked]

It's not your grandfather's milk

Quote

The “Grass-Fed” Milk Story: Understanding the
Impact of Pasture Feeding on the Composition and
Quality of Bovine Milk.   Fresh pasture as a plant material (e.g., perennial ryegrass, white and red clover) is a good source of various vitamins and antioxidants that are transferred through complex digestive processes to the mammary gland and then to milk, which explains the higher content of compounds such as β-carotene, terpenes, lutein, Vitamins A (retinol), E (tocopherol), and phytol (a derivative of chlorophyll) in ‘pasture milk’ compared to ‘TMR milk’...Significantly higher percentages of health promoting FA [fatty acids]have been recorded in milk fat derived
from pasture feeding...Milk derived from cows fed TMR diets had significantly higher lactose concentrations compared to that derived from cows fed pasture...milk acquired through pasture feeding had an improved processability, protein:fat ratio and higher content of whey proteins 

 

[Jackie Garrett]

47 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

It's not your grandfather's milk

 

I believe it’s the Histamine from milk and starter cultures from milk that is used in so much of what we eat and drink today is possibly causing some problems with some of our health issues, once our levels build up in our bodies that’s when our symptoms start. The histamine in cows milk is meant for a calf really, the histamine from our mothers milk is meant for us,  its natural, where as cows milk is not, I just try and look at things logically as to why so many of us are getting ill,  so I believe the body can not process too much of this extra foreign histamine then when we have too much of it, it begins to store, which I believe can cause weight issues, and many other symptoms. So if your consuming an amount your body can cope with, maybe your ok, maybe some people can not cope with much at all, then they are reacting like I was to all sorts of things, because my levels were too high, by coming off milk my symptoms are gone, and that has made me question milk and the histamine in that milk which is not meant for the human body. I never really thought anything about milk before it was only when I got well, that I questioned it’s effects and then knowing that so many of the population can’t drink it as well, added to my theory. It really needs looking in to if it’s not already.

[trents]

"Total mixed ration (TMR) is a method of feeding dairy cattle. The purpose of feeding a TMR diet is that each cow can consume the required level of nutrients in each bite. A cow's ration should include good quality forages, a balance of grains and proteins, vitamins and minerals." (from Wikapedia)

Sorry, but I don't see why TMR feeding of dairy cows would be nutritionally inferior to pasture only grazing. And it appear even to be superior. And keep in mind that in most parts of the USA, pasture greass (hay) must be harvested and stored in barns to have something to feed the cows in winter. So, there is a major part of the year when the feed is not fresh. So, it seems like you must be advocating poorer nutrition for dairy cows in order to produce lower histamine and lactose levels.

[notme]

i manage my histamine 'overload' dealio by rotating my diet.  (it is mast cell activation syndrome)  i just don't eat the same thing 2 days in a row, ideally 3 days.  i take h1 and h2 receptor suppressors (antihistamine and a benzo) and use cromlyn sodium to pretreat before meals.  i can eat pretty much anything i want anymore, including the stuff that used to make me sick for no apparent reason, just because i was eating too much of the same histamine (think of a glass that overflows if you pour too much into it)  once i figured this out and experimented with different allergy meds, and when to take them that benefitted my particular body, everything kind of 'untangled' and i am good to go.   good luck!

[trents]

arlene, that sounds like a wise course of action and one that I have adopted to some degree as well, at least for breakfast. I rotate between three different menus for breakfast. It can be challenging to do for celiacs, however, since our food choices are already narrowed down.

Edited September 10, 2021 by trents

[notme]

3 minutes ago, trents said:

arlene, that sounds like a wise course of action and one that I have adopted to some degree as well, at least for breakfast. I rotate between three different menus for breakfast. It can be challenging to do for celiacs, however, since our food choices are already narrowed down.

lolz, i kept trying to sneak certified gluten-free oatmeal in there, it was the last to be returned to my diet!  as long as it's nature's path or nuts dot com rolled oats (so yum!)  i eat canyon bakehouse english muffins with honey, almond butter and pepitas.  and their bagels are good for the next day, the plain ones i put cream cheese and pistascios (sp), next day scrambled egg with peppers, cherry tomatoes, bacon and cheeze, etc.  i add a little turmeric whenever i can as well, to help with inflammation.   so, there's some ideas for ya!!  (you can tell i like to play with my food lolz)

the diet rotation has really opened up the 'food world' for me and i hope it does for you, too!!

 

 

[Jackie Garrett]

2 hours ago, notme! said:

i manage my histamine 'overload' dealio by rotating my diet.  (it is mast cell activation syndrome)  i just don't eat the same thing 2 days in a row, ideally 3 days.  i take h1 and h2 receptor suppressors (antihistamine and a benzo) and use cromlyn sodium to pretreat before meals.  i can eat pretty much anything i want anymore, including the stuff that used to make me sick for no apparent reason, just because i was eating too much of the same histamine (think of a glass that overflows if you pour too much into it)  once i figured this out and experimented with different allergy meds, and when to take them that benefitted my particular body, everything kind of 'untangled' and i am good to go.   good luck!

I wonder why too much histamine in the body Is not talked about more, why are some Drs. not suggesting this, especially when it could be the answer to many peoples health problems ??? I could have been well years ago.

[Jackie Garrett]

2 hours ago, notme! said:

i manage my histamine 'overload' dealio by rotating my diet.  (it is mast cell activation syndrome)  i just don't eat the same thing 2 days in a row, ideally 3 days.  i take h1 and h2 receptor suppressors (antihistamine and a benzo) and use cromlyn sodium to pretreat before meals.  i can eat pretty much anything i want anymore, including the stuff that used to make me sick for no apparent reason, just because i was eating too much of the same histamine (think of a glass that overflows if you pour too much into it)  once i figured this out and experimented with different allergy meds, and when to take them that benefitted my particular body, everything kind of 'untangled' and i am good to go.   good luck!

Thank you not me, I am glad your better.

[Jackie Garrett]

On 9/8/2021 at 6:40 PM, AlwaysLearning said:

In response to the original post title, I do think there is a need to clarify between allergies and autoimmune diseases. For each, a different type of T cell is involved.

The link to the study posted appears to describe an autoimmune reaction to the proteins in milk, which would be a good parallel to the reactions that celiac's have to the gluten protein. And yes, if you are still looking for a diagnosis, considering dairy as a possible cause of problems the same as one would consider gluten as a cause for problems is logical. 

Autoimmune diseases are an immune reaction where tissue destruction occurs as the body attacks itself. The reaction might be triggered by what is seen as a foreign invader, but the reaction is misdirected, attacking your own body instead of the invader. For autoimmune reactions triggered by food, you can generally expect digestive issues though attacks can really occur anywhere in your body and take on a multitude of forms.

Allergies are an immune reaction to what is perceived as a foreign invader, but the reaction isn't to attack, rather to expel the invader, the same as the body might work to expel a virus or a parasite. The histamines are produced by your body and fit into receptors that trigger additional reactions, such as to produce mucus, to cough or to sneeze, to make your eyes water, or to make your skin itch. Even the more-extreme reactions of anaphylaxis is still the same reaction, just exaggerated, to try to expel.

And dairy might have two different ways to trigger allergic reactions. If you truly are allergic to dairy, then your body will produce histamines as a reaction. But foods can also contain histamines. Though dairy starts out low in histamines, the fermentation process for something like yoghurt can result in it having higher histamine content. 

The more histamines you have built up in your system already, the more likely you are to have an allergic-style reaction to foods that are high in histamines. You're not allergic to the food, you're just overloaded on histamines. If you eat a lot of avocados and nuts on a regular basis, you probably are familiar with the reaction of getting a little sneezy after meals.

But lactose intolerance, an autoimmune reaction, is not the same as a dairy allergy, which is an allergic reaction. I looked it up, but I did not get an answer on whether or not it is possible to be both lactose intolerant and allergic to dairy at the same time. But the University of Chicago says it is possible to have both celiac and have a wheat allergy at the same time.

Also note that if your thyroid is overactive, your body will be overproducing histamines no matter what you eat, and you could have what seem like allergic reactions to almost anything. Severe hyperthyroidism can mean even a light scratch across your skin can cause welts to rise (dermatographia). You might break out in hives just by washing your hands or going outside in cold weather. 

But there can be overlap. For example, if an autoimmune disease causes your body to attack your thyroid causing tissue damage that results in hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid), the result would be an over production of histamines resulting in an allergic-style reactions. It is no wonder so many have difficulty getting diagnosis.

But I think many of us who have celiac have used the term allergy to describe our condition at one time or another. Even though we know we're using the term incorrectly, it can be easier to just say you have food allergies than to try to explain something like celiac to the uninitiated, especially in a world where many believe that gluten free is just a crazy fad.

But I hope this explanation helps some future reader understand the crazy stuff their body is doing.

Hello Always learning 

I was just re- reading your post and  it dawned on me what if the extra histamine in our bodies from milk/ food /drinks /Medication with milk starter cultures (Lactose) in is making the thyroid over react, then surely we should all be warned about the effects of ingesting too much histamine  from foods/ drinks meds, that we think are harmless, Tea, Coffee milk all contain higher histamine and many people are consuming these daily and not just one or two and histamine accumulates we need to exercise to help keep levels lower. Maybe  on things we eat/ drink regularly with higher histamine contents should have warnings on the products  as it seems to be an allergen or cause problems in high amounts. Then our thyroid would settle down and our whole body would work better, and maybe some  of our health problems/Allergies/Cancers could be prevented ??? Is a lower histamine diet the way forward  ???

[Jackie Garrett]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:31 AM, Jackie Garrett said:

Hello Always learning 

I was just re- reading your post and  it dawned on me what if the extra histamine in our bodies from milk/ food /drinks /Medication with milk starter cultures (Lactose) in is making the thyroid over react, then surely we should all be warned about the effects of ingesting too much histamine  from foods/ drinks meds, that we think are harmless, Tea, Coffee milk all contain higher histamine and many people are consuming these daily and not just one or two and histamine accumulates we need to exercise to help keep levels lower. Maybe  on things we eat/ drink regularly with higher histamine contents should have warnings on the products  as it seems to be an allergen or cause problems in high amounts. Then our thyroid would settle down and our whole body would work better, and maybe some  of our health problems/Allergies/Cancers could be prevented ??? Is a lower histamine diet the way forward  ???

Is it I wonder that when our bodies have too much histamine it reacts in various ways because the extra histamine is attaching or going into our cells that contain our natural histamine (which protect us) and possibly leaking into our bloodstream  (in some cases) making our bodies acidic, my body became acidic, I believe that’s one of the reasons  why I went on to have my Scad heart attack and all my previous symptoms because of the foreign Histamine accumulating in my body and suffocating my enzymes that keep your stomach digesting things. This is just my theory of course but it’s how I see it, so by me avoiding milk and lowering my histamine I got well.

[knitty kitty]

@Jackie Garrett,

You might find some benefit if you read up on Mast Cell Activation Syndrome.

Our food contains histamine. Our bodies can make histamines.  And the bacteria in our guts can make histamines!

Vitamin C, Thiamine (B1) and Pyridoxine (B6) can help our bodies get rid of excessive histamine.  Vitamin deficiencies can be present whether or not Celiac Disease is involved.

Ensuring your diet includes these vitamins or supplementing them can help.

Eating a diet of low histamine foods can help.

Eating foods that cannot be fermented by gastrointestinal bacteria can help.

Here's some articles to help get you started.

Histamine Intolerance: The Current State of the Art

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7463562/

Effects of thiamine administration on hypothermia and hypothalamic histamine levels in dietary-induced thiamine deficient rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2090843/

Mast cell interactions with the nervous system: relationship to mechanisms of disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9184654/

Regional changes in brain histamine levels following dietary-induced thiamine deficiency in rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3221531/

[Effect of pyridoxine on histamine liberation and degranulation of rat mast cells]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/94242/

Hope this helps answer your questions.

[Jackie Garrett]

On 9/12/2021 at 2:39 PM, knitty kitty said:

@Jackie Garrett,

You might find some benefit if you read up on Mast Cell Activation Syndrome.

Our food contains histamine. Our bodies can make histamines.  And the bacteria in our guts can make histamines!

Vitamin C, Thiamine (B1) and Pyridoxine (B6) can help our bodies get rid of excessive histamine.  Vitamin deficiencies can be present whether or not Celiac Disease is involved.

Ensuring your diet includes these vitamins or supplementing them can help.

Eating a diet of low histamine foods can help.

Eating foods that cannot be fermented by gastrointestinal bacteria can help.

Here's some articles to help get you started.

Histamine Intolerance: The Current State of the Art

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7463562/

Effects of thiamine administration on hypothermia and hypothalamic histamine levels in dietary-induced thiamine deficient rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2090843/

Mast cell interactions with the nervous system: relationship to mechanisms of disease

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9184654/

Regional changes in brain histamine levels following dietary-induced thiamine deficiency in rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3221531/

[Effect of pyridoxine on histamine liberation and degranulation of rat mast cells]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/94242/

Hope this helps answer your questions.

Thank you knitty kitty

well that’s what I have done to get well, and I am so glad I did, but I could of been well years ago if the Drs. told me about all this, I hope they are being trained more in this area  the surgeries wouldn’t be so full all the time.

Thank you also for your reply and info.

 

[AlwaysLearning]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:31 AM, Jackie Garrett said:

Hello Always learning 

I was just re- reading your post and  it dawned on me what if the extra histamine in our bodies from milk/ food /drinks /Medication with milk starter cultures (Lactose) in is making the thyroid over react, then surely we should all be warned about the effects of ingesting too much histamine  from foods/ drinks meds, that we think are harmless, Tea, Coffee milk all contain higher histamine and many people are consuming these daily and not just one or two and histamine accumulates we need to exercise to help keep levels lower. Maybe  on things we eat/ drink regularly with higher histamine contents should have warnings on the products  as it seems to be an allergen or cause problems in high amounts. Then our thyroid would settle down and our whole body would work better, and maybe some  of our health problems/Allergies/Cancers could be prevented ??? Is a lower histamine diet the way forward  ???

Milk is low in histamines. It is only fermented milk products such as yoghurt that MIGHT have higher histamine content.

Your body generally gets its histamines in three ways. 

1. Your body always produces them. This is normal.

2. You can get them from the foods you eat.

3. You body can produce them as part of a true, allergic reaction.

1. The thyroid is always producing the hormones needed to regulate the other systems in your body including histamine production. It is only when your thyroid is overactive that your body might be producing too many histamines. Histamines do not cause your thyroid to be overactive, rather they are a symptom of the overactive thyroid. If you have an overactive thyroid, look for another reason for it to have become overactive. For some, that might be exposure to mold, or gluten, or chemicals. Or it could be another undetermined cause. There is still lots to be learned when it comes to thyroid disease. But histamines from foods are not the problem.

2. Sure, some foods are higher in histamines than others, but as long as you aren't overdoing a food that is high in histamines, it should be pretty difficult to build up the levels needed to produce histamine reactions just from food alone. I think the most common histamine reactions we hear of is when someone drinks a too much wine. But it is likely this is only going to be happening to the person who already has a build up of histamines in their system. But if you are doing what you should be doing, eating a diet with lots of variety and not overdoing any one thing, excess histamines from foods should not be an issue.

3. Allergic reactions, though not necessarily beneficial in all cases, do have their roots in survival of our species and are a way the body tries to protect itself. The histamines released as part of an allergic reaction are designed to trigger systems to expel invaders out of our bodies. An example is watering eyes or sneezing to get rid of pollen. 

If you  notice histamine reactions after eating foods, sure, find out more about the foods that you are consuming, note if some of your favorites are high in histamines and try to reduce these foods if you find the symptoms annoying. But what you should be looking for is a reason why the histamine levels in your body are already so high that the minor additions that are coming from foods are pushing you over the limit. Mainly, are you dealing with undiagnosed allergies or a thyroid problem? The histamines in foods are highly unlikely to be the main problem on their own .

[trents]

47 minutes ago, AlwaysLearning said:

Milk is low in histamines. It is only fermented milk products such as yoghurt that MIGHT have higher histamine content.

This needed to be said as some forum participants are claiming milk is high in histamines. It also needs to be said that the problem may not be high intake of histamines in the diet but low production of DAO by the body such that histamines are not being broken down at normal rates.

Edited September 14, 2021 by trents

[Wheatwacked]

Back to those same vitamins common to Celiac Disease and a Diamine Oxidase (DAO) problem . Looking at the second article, eating two or more ounces of almonds for vitamin E could help.

Quote

Vitamins and minerals that may benefit people with histamine intolerance include:  vitaminB6,vitaminC,copper,magnesium,zinc,calcium,vitamin B1,vitamin B12

Quote

E inhibits histamine release generated in activated mast cells,   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29504360/

 

[Jackie Garrett]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:44 PM, AlwaysLearning said:

Milk is low in histamines. It is only fermented milk products such as yoghurt that MIGHT have higher histamine content.

Your body generally gets its histamines in three ways. 

1. Your body always produces them. This is normal.

2. You can get them from the foods you eat.

3. You body can produce them as part of a true, allergic reaction.

1. The thyroid is always producing the hormones needed to regulate the other systems in your body including histamine production. It is only when your thyroid is overactive that your body might be producing too many histamines. Histamines do not cause your thyroid to be overactive, rather they are a symptom of the overactive thyroid. If you have an overactive thyroid, look for another reason for it to have become overactive. For some, that might be exposure to mold, or gluten, or chemicals. Or it could be another undetermined cause. There is still lots to be learned when it comes to thyroid disease. But histamines from foods are not the problem.

2. Sure, some foods are higher in histamines than others, but as long as you aren't overdoing a food that is high in histamines, it should be pretty difficult to build up the levels needed to produce histamine reactions just from food alone. I think the most common histamine reactions we hear of is when someone drinks a too much wine. But it is likely this is only going to be happening to the person who already has a build up of histamines in their system. But if you are doing what you should be doing, eating a diet with lots of variety and not overdoing any one thing, excess histamines from foods should not be an issue.

3. Allergic reactions, though not necessarily beneficial in all cases, do have their roots in survival of our species and are a way the body tries to protect itself. The histamines released as part of an allergic reaction are designed to trigger systems to expel invaders out of our bodies. An example is watering eyes or sneezing to get rid of pollen. 

If you  notice histamine reactions after eating foods, sure, find out more about the foods that you are consuming, note if some of your favorites are high in histamines and try to reduce these foods if you find the symptoms annoying. But what you should be looking for is a reason why the histamine levels in your body are already so high that the minor additions that are coming from foods are pushing you over the limit. Mainly, are you dealing with undiagnosed allergies or a thyroid problem? The histamines in foods are highly unlikely to be the main problem on their own .

I would actually like to know the histamine levels in cows milk compared to the histamine levels in human milk before I make any judgement of how low it actually is, as cows milk is intended for a calf that grows into a big beast, surely that’s going to be a lot more than human milk histamine,   i would actually like to know comparisons, also when our bodies becomes acidic through our diets, the thyroid is working overtime to try and even things out, so when we are making our bodes acidic through our diet and added histamine from the milk which begins to accumulate in our bodies which then affects our Dao enzyme things start to wrong, so by reducing our histamine levels and following a more alkaline diet as nature intended our health’s should improve. When our villi is damaged by these continued acids being drip fed into our bodies it is damaging the villi preventing them from doing their job of absorbing all of our important nutrients, now for me I only saw my health improve when I stopped drinking the milk, my body started to begin to work again my weight was coming down my symptoms started to go the minute I would try a little of Dairy I would get pain in my arm neck like fibromyalgia, and other symptoms would return, so I know I can’t have it, and when we are all eating/drinking things with Dairy in and all the preservatives with Dairy starter cultures we are ingesting a lot, day in day out, let alone all the other acidic drinks/ foods,  and it accumulates in our bodies/ cells and that’s when I believe our bodies can’t cope and maybe the first sign is weight gain, weight loss, illness/ pain/ allergies/diseases,  so too much histamine is bad for us but a lot of us are unaware of the histamine we are putting in our bodies, I really would like to see warnings on things that we are drinking/ eating regularly with added man made histamine/ or histamine from cows milks to be labelled so people will become more aware of  this, we are told about fats and sugars smoking/ drinking but not this and I believe the accumulation in our bodies is making us acidic, we need to follow a more alkaline way of eating drinking to be well and healthy and our villi will recover and absorb all the nutrients we need from our healthy food and we will not need to take supplements and our health’s will improve. Maybe in time when our levels are right we maybe can have small amounts our bodies can cope with, I would love to be able one day to have some Dairy again as I really, really do miss it, but I know at this present time I can’t my body although better is not ready for it, may be it never will, are we designed for it ??  hence my topic title) so what I am saying as you can probably gather by now is watch your levels if your getting health issues it may help, it helped me.

[Jackie Garrett]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:05 PM, Wheatwacked said:

Back to those same vitamins common to Celiac Disease and a Diamine Oxidase (DAO) problem . Looking at the second article, eating two or more ounces of almonds for vitamin E could help.

 

Thank you Wheatwacked for that information. I hope you are well.

[trents]

 

From: https://www.healthline.com/health/histamine-intolerance#diet

"Histamine-rich foods are: alcohol and other fermented beverages, fermented foods and dairy products, such as yogurt and sauerkraut, dried fruits, avocados, eggplant, spinach, processed or smoked meats, shellfish, aged cheese.

There are also a number of foods that trigger histamine release in the body, such as: alcohol, bananas, tomatoes, wheat germ, beans, papaya, chocolate, citrus fruits, nuts, specifically walnuts, cashews and peanuts, food dyes and other additives.

Foods that block DAO production include: alcohol, black tea, mate tea, green tea, energy drinks."

................................................................................................................................................................................................

You will not find unfermented cow's milk in that list or in any other list of high histamine foods or foods that stimulate histamine production. 

 

[Wheatwacked]

11 hours ago, Jackie Garrett said:

histamine levels in cows milk

Could your histamine response to conventional cows milk be a result of the high omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of the milk? Pasture fed milk has a healthier ratio than grain fed.  Once I resolved my lactose intolerance with home made dill pickles I still had a problem that if I drank milk at bedtime I woke two hours later with indigestion. Milk is an important source of potassium for me. With 100% pasture fed it no longer happens. As a side note from an Earth Day point of view pasture fed is more sustainable, less methane released into the atmoshere. 

Quote

 

High omega-6 PUFA dietary intake has been linked to inflammation, mainly because ARA is the precursor of pro-inflammatory lipid mediators.   https://www.plefa.com/article/S0952-3278(18)30074-7/fulltext

Quote

While both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are essential, they must be in the proper proportion for optimal nutrition. Western diets typically contain a ratio of 10 to 15 times more omega-6 fatty acids as omega-3 fatty acids, while the optimal ratio is estimated to be closer to 2:3.... Cattle from organic farms consuming more grass and legumes produce milk with higher omega-3 fatty acid concentration and fewer saturated fats while grain-fed dairy cattle have predominantly omega-6 fatty acids in their milk.  https://n.neurology.org/content/dietary-ratio-omega-3-omega-6-fatty-acids-may-be-issue

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The ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids in organic milk was 2.3 averaged over a year, compared to 5.8 in conventional milk.  In addition, other health-promoting fatty acids and nutrients (e.g., antioxidants) are also present in organic milk at higher concentrations.    https://csanr.wsu.edu/dairy-products-healthy-diets/

 

[Jackie Garrett]

57 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

Could your histamine response to conventional cows milk be a result of the high omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of the milk? Pasture fed milk has a healthier ratio than grain fed.  Once I resolved my lactose intolerance with home made dill pickles I still had a problem that if I drank milk at bedtime I woke two hours later with indigestion. Milk is an important source of potassium for me. With 100% pasture fed it no longer happens. As a side note from an Earth Day point of view pasture fed is more sustainable, less methane released into the atmoshere. 

 

Thankyou Wheatwacked 

Thats very interesting, maybe the feeding methods of  conventional cows milk need some adjustments to get the omega 3/6 ratio right which may help us to digest it better.  Because life without Dairy feels like your missing out on  so many things. I don’t know if my body will ever let me be able to go back to it, i believe it was making my body too acidic and stopped my Dao from working properly which then progressed to immune problems.