DH reaction to rice or rice flour?

[Sahamies]

I looked it up on the internet.  I know I didn’t eat enough meat so I have experienced this.  It causes people to lose their intrinsic factor.  You don’t know all the reasons people get pernicious anemia.  I have never had injections.  I only treated this by eating liver.  I don’t have to prove anything to you.  If you don’t believe what I say, that is okay.  I don’t believe you either.

[trents]

  On 1/2/2022 at 9:29 PM, Sahamies said:

I looked it up on the internet.  I know I didn’t eat enough meat so I have experienced this.  It causes people to lose their intrinsic factor.  You don’t know all the reasons people get pernicious anemia.  I have never had injections.  I only treated this by eating liver.  I don’t have to prove anything to you.  If you don’t believe what I say, that is okay.  I don’t believe you either.

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So how do you know you had pernicious anemia and not regular anemia? If lack of animal protein consumption can cause pernicious anemia then whey aren't more vegetarians and vegans afflicted with it?

[Sahamies]

Vegans take B12 pills.  The main thing about animal protein is it contains B12 or cobalt.  Of course they need other vitamins too since they don’t eat meat.  Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy so maybe they get enough B12.  Lack of B12 is what causes pernicious anemia.

[trents]

  On 1/3/2022 at 1:10 AM, Sahamies said:

Vegans take B12 pills.  The main thing about animal protein is it contains B12 or cobalt.  Of course they need other vitamins too since they don’t eat meat.  Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy so maybe they get enough B12.  Lack of B12 is what causes pernicious anemia.

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A person with pernicious anemia can swallow B12 pill all day long and it won't impact their anemia because they aren't assimilating the B12 since they lack intrinsic factor. You should read this to get a proper understanding of pernicious anemia: https://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/pernicious-anaemia/

As I said, the parietal cells are killed off by antibodies. It is an autoimmune problem, not the lack of eating meat. Please quit spreading misinformation.

[Sahamies]

  On 1/3/2022 at 1:33 AM, trents said:

A person with pernicious anemia can swallow B12 pill all day long and it won't impact their anemia because they aren't assimilating the B12 since they lack intrinsic factor. You should read this to get a proper understanding of pernicious anemia: https://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/pernicious-anaemia/

As I said, the parietal cells are killed off by antibodies. It is an autoimmune problem, not the lack of eating meat. Please quit spreading misinformation.

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  On 1/3/2022 at 1:33 AM, trents said:

A person with pernicious anemia can swallow B12 pill all day long and it won't impact their anemia because they aren't assimilating the B12 since they lack intrinsic factor. You should read this to get a proper understanding of pernicious anemia: https://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/pernicious-anaemia/

As I said, the parietal cells are killed off by antibodies. It is an autoimmune problem, not the lack of eating meat. Please quit spreading misinformation.

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You are the one spreading misinformation.  If you eat enough B12 like liver, some will get absorbed.  

[Scott Adams]

  On 1/3/2022 at 1:10 AM, Sahamies said:

Vegans take B12 pills.  The main thing about animal protein is it contains B12 or cobalt.  Of course they need other vitamins too since they don’t eat meat.  Vegetarians eat eggs and dairy so maybe they get enough B12.  Lack of B12 is what causes pernicious anemia.

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I think the point that @trents makes, is that if you were officially diagnosed with pernicious anemia by a doctor, they would prescribe B12 injections, not eating lots of liver. If you look at the link he shared he's correct that taking B12 pills, or eating foods high in B12 won't correct pernicious anemia, and B12 injections are the standard treatment for it. 

In your case if your iron levels normalized after eating liver, it is more likely that you had plain old anemia. 

[Sahamies]

No I know I have pernicious anemia.  Lots of people treat it with taking pills and eating liver or herring.  You can take high doses and some of it gets absorbed.  When pernicious anemia was first discovered a few centuries ago, people had to eat half a pound of liver.  I think food works better than vitamins, whether it is oral or injections.  Doctors don’t want to treat it.

[plumbago]

  On 1/3/2022 at 10:47 PM, Sahamies said:

No I know I have pernicious anemia.  Lots of people treat it with taking pills and eating liver or herring.  You can take high doses and some of it gets absorbed.  When pernicious anemia was first discovered a few centuries ago, people had to eat half a pound of liver.  I think food works better than vitamins, whether it is oral or injections.  Doctors don’t want to treat it.

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I like the food vs vitamin supplements route too, but pernicious anemia is different in that intrinsic factor (necessary for B12 absorption) often found with B12 deficiency is lacking and there's just now way to eat your way around that (so far as we know) which is why injections are often preferred.

[Sahamies]

Maybe injections are better, but you can’t get injections.  Food and high doses of B12 work too.

[plumbago]

  On 1/3/2022 at 11:17 PM, Sahamies said:

Maybe injections are better, but you can’t get injections.  Food and high doses of B12 work too.

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I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer.

[Sahamies]

  On 1/3/2022 at 11:28 PM, plumbago said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer.

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What is there not to understand?  You don’t need injections or go to a doctor.  You can eat liver and take high doses of B12.  It works too.  If you take high doses, some of it will get absorbed.  It has worked for me.

[LJ-Azura]

  On 9/8/2021 at 4:58 PM, Maureen Haley said:

I developed DH in middle age and follow a strict gluten-free diet.  Lately, I've been breaking out in dermatitis herpetiformis rash from gluten free foods that I've been eating for the last few years. By process of elimination, I've discovered the culprit is rice and rice flour. I hadn't had any problems with this previously, as a matter of fact rice has been my go to substitute for pasta for several years

Has anyone else experienced this?  I also recently become somewhat lactose intolerant, so it seems I'm developed more food sensitivities as I get older

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Could be sugar? I started having sleepless nights scratching myself until I would bleed. Thinking it was gluten. I removed processed sugars from my diet and have found it completely disappeared. I have heard people say rice has sugar in it? I still eat rice and obviously zero gluten and sugar and I'm not itchy and scratchy anymore.

My Chinese doctor also put me onto a diet where I stopped eating white potato. That helped me too. Although I have introduced it back into my diet recently with no issues.

Hopefully this helps you!

[Maureen Haley]

  On 2/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, LJ_Azura said:

Could be sugar? I started having sleepless nights scratching myself until I would bleed. Thinking it was gluten. I removed processed sugars from my diet and have found it completely disappeared. I have heard people say rice has sugar in it? I still eat rice and obviously zero gluten and sugar and I'm not itchy and scratchy anymore.

My Chinese doctor also put me onto a diet where I stopped eating white potato. That helped me too. Although I have introduced it back into my diet recently with no issues.

Hopefully this helps you!

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Thanks, LJ. 

 

  On 2/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, LJ_Azura said:

Could be sugar? I started having sleepless nights scratching myself until I would bleed. Thinking it was gluten. I removed processed sugars from my diet and have found it completely disappeared. I have heard people say rice has sugar in it? I still eat rice and obviously zero gluten and sugar and I'm not itchy and scratchy anymore.

My Chinese doctor also put me onto a diet where I stopped eating white potato. That helped me too. Although I have introduced it back into my diet recently with no issues.

Hopefully this helps you!

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[plumbago]

  On 1/3/2022 at 11:33 PM, Sahamies said:

What is there not to understand?

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With a condition called pernicious anemia, since the problem is lack of intrinsic factor, a protein produced in the stomach and, under normal circumstances, binding to B12 in the small intestine, a process which is necessary for absorption, no matter what you eat, it will not be absorbed, necessitating the intramuscular injections.

[ravenwoodglass]

  On 1/2/2022 at 9:25 PM, trents said:

But pernicious anemia is a different animal. Pernicious anemia does not respond to increased iron in the diet or through supplementation. It can only be addressed through B12 injections.

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Not all folks with celiac will have pernicious anemia. Celiac damages the small intestine preventing absorption even with normal intrinsic factor.  Sublingual B12 can be helpful for us because it bypasses the damaged gut by being absorbed by the mucous membranes in the mouth. The tablets are held under the tongue or between cheek and gums.  It is a good idea to have blood levels of iron and B12 checked on a regular basis while healing. Too much B12 in a vitamin is not an issue since excess will be excreted but too much iron can be dangerous.

[knitty kitty]

  On 1/3/2022 at 1:33 AM, trents said:

A person with pernicious anemia can swallow B12 pill all day long and it won't impact their anemia because they aren't assimilating the B12 since they lack intrinsic factor. You should read this to get a proper understanding of pernicious anemia: https://pernicious-anaemia-society.org/pernicious-anaemia/

As I said, the parietal cells are killed off by antibodies. It is an autoimmune problem, not the lack of eating meat. Please quit spreading misinformation.

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@trents,

I'm sorry to step in, but oral high doses of B12 can be used to correct V B12 deficiency.  

By taking high doses, the B12 can get into the cells by passive diffusion.  (Passive diffusion is where something moves from an area of high concentration like outside a cell to an area of lower concentration like inside a cell.) 

 

 

  On 1/3/2022 at 11:33 PM, Sahamies said:

What is there not to understand?  You don’t need injections or go to a doctor.  You can eat liver and take high doses of B12.  It works too.  If you take high doses, some of it will get absorbed.  It has worked for me.

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@Sahamies,

You are right.  Taking high doses of B12 orally can correct B12 deficiency with or without intrinsic factor deficiency.  

I've used this method of replacing B12 with high doses of B12 supplementation.  

Here's an article about it....

Oral vitamin B12 versus intramuscular vitamin B12 for vitamin B12 deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5112015/

"High oral doses of B12 (1000 mcg and 2000 mcg) were as effective as intramuscular administration in achieving haematological and neurological responses."

Apologies, @Sahamies, for not getting back here sooner.  

Knowledge is the only thing you can give away and keep at the same time.  Let's keep our minds open and giving.

KnittyKitty

 

[trents]

knittykitty, the article in the link you site addresses B12 deficiency but does not specify B12 deficiency caused by pernicious anemia, unless I missed something.

But this one does and says basically the same thing and indicates as little as 1000 μg is effective:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27602354/

 

Once again, thank you for the information.

 

[knitty kitty]

  On 2/6/2022 at 5:04 AM, trents said:

knittykitty, the article in the link you site addresses B12 deficiency but does not specify B12 deficiency caused by pernicious anemia, unless I missed something.

But this one does and says basically the same thing and indicates as little as 1000 μg is effective:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27602354/

 

Once again, thank you for the information.

 

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The article I posted does mention Intrinsic Factor deficiency.  Pernicious anemia occurs because the parietal cells don't produce Intrinsic Factor, hence Intrinsic Factor deficiency. 

Glad you found an article specifically stating oral B12 replacement works for pernicious anemia.

Keep up the good research!

Edited February 6, 2022 by knitty kitty
Typo

[tex45]

My fiance is celiac, and she has extremely negative reactions to white rice flour.  I have made sure the product was certified gluten free, and, still a very bad experience. We have to avoid rice flour, even as a second, third, ingredient.  She also sticks to a lactose free milk.

[Scott Adams]

Is your fiancé newly diagnosed, or has she been gluten-free for a while?

[tex45]

  On 1/22/2024 at 12:42 AM, Scott Adams said:

Is your fiancé newly diagnosed, or has she been gluten-free for a while?

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Diagnosed 7 years ago...went for several years previously undiagnosed...

[Wheatwacked]

Low vitamin D can disrupt intrinsic factor production in the stomach mucosa leading to a cascade effect on B12 absorption and to Pernicious Anemia.  Since doctors rarely test for vitamin D this is often missed.