Could it be ………..

[AlwaysLearning]

https://celiac.org/about-the-foundation/featured-news/2016/08/20-things-you-might-not-know-about-celiac-disease/

[trents]

Jackie Garrett, there is one factoid that contradicts your theory that dairy intolerance is the root cause of celiac disease rather than the other way around. And that is that some celiacs who are originally intolerant of dairy find that after their villi have healed they can go back to dairy without issue.

[Jackie Garrett]

38 minutes ago, trents said:

Jackie Garrett, there is one factoid that contradicts your theory that dairy intolerance is the root cause of celiac disease rather than the other way around. And that is that some celiacs who are originally intolerant of dairy find that after their villi have healed they can go back to dairy without issue.

I still believe my theory, maybe some of those people still have to watch how much Dairy they have before they have symptoms, maybe because their levels of histamine are lower their bodies can cope better because they are not having the gluten as well, in time I may be able to cope with small amounts of Dairy, but I don’t want to try quite yet. Once you take out the foods that are causing all these troubles  it’s amazing how well the body can heal itself, I am sure these people are careful how much Dairy they ingest, a Celiac friend of mine says she can get away with small amounts now but she’d daren’t over do it or she will get problems.

[trents]

You seem to be moving from the position that dairy causes celiac disease because of your claim that dairy is high in histamines to the position that gluten also causes high histamines. Such that, if you remove one or the other, the histamine level goes down and there is healing of the villi which allows some people to consume a certain amount of dairy without issue. So in your mind, is the genesis of the problem gluten or dairy, or both?

[Jackie Garrett]

1 hour ago, trents said:

You seem to be moving from the position that dairy causes celiac disease because of your claim that dairy is high in histamines to the position that gluten also causes high histamines. Such that, if you remove one or the other, the histamine level goes down and there is healing of the villi which allows some people to consume a certain amount of dairy without issue. So in your mind, is the genesis of the problem gluten or dairy, or both?

Well Trents both cause problems I believe with raising histamine in the body but with cows milk you are ingesting a histamine that’s for a calf to make it grow into a big animal, and I question what that particular histamine is doing to our body it’s full of hormones as well. Is this the start of our allergies? Is this the underlying cause ? then it makes us sensitive to other things, like Gluten and other things that are higher in histamine, like I said before, 3/4 of the population can not tolerate milk and by what’s has happened to me by avoiding it and how I got well which makes me ask the question, I may be proved wrong, but I do like to question these things and by me avoiding milk in this last year,  all my life long symptoms have gone so you can see why I question this and maybe someone on this site who is desperately trying to find answers to their health problems may try this to see if it helps them. Milk is not as high in histamine as fermented Dairy but  It still may not be low enough for our bodies especially when it is added to nearly everything we eat and drink as preservatives etc so we get an accumulation so what starts out as a LOWER histamine turns into a higher amount in our bodies because it’s in so much of what we consume.

[trents]

Jackie, if you knew me well you would realize I like to play the "devil's advocate" as the old saying goes in order to make people think through the implications of their theories and also to gain clarity for myself on what they are saying. That is not to say I am not skeptical about your hypothesis but I just want you to know it is not a personal attack on you. I found this which cautiously lends some support to what you are pushing: https://theceliacmd.com/histamine-intolerance-and-ibs/. The author is not some quack alternative medicine practitioner but an MD. In this article, Dr. Burkhart is not asserting half-baked conclusions about these things but rather suggests their possibility in question format with regard to NCGS.

Edited October 1, 2021 by trents

[Jackie Garrett]

18 minutes ago, trents said:

Jackie, if you knew me well you would realize I like to play the "devil's advocate" as the old saying goes in order to make people think through the implications of their theories and also to gain clarity for myself on what they are saying. That is not to say I am not skeptical about your hypothesis but I just want you to know it is not a personal attack on you. I found this which cautiously lends some support to what you are pushing: https://theceliacmd.com/histamine-intolerance-and-ibs/. The author is not some quack alternative medicine practitioner but an MD. In this article, Dr. Burkhart is not asserting half-baked conclusions about these things but rather suggests their possibility in question format with regard to NCGS.

I think things through a lot and I question a lot of things, in a way I hope my theory is proved wrong because dairy is so nice and there’s nothing better than butter on your toast. Thanks Trents

[Wheatwacked]

Humans are the only mammals that tolerate milk after infancy.  Many theories on why. It used to be said that the benificial bacteria in our gut supplements our small amount of endogenous lactase. The SAD diet is not good for the good bacteria. Rather than improve the diet some researcher say it ain't so. So they sell probiotics and prebiotics. The fatty acid profile of milk has changed with the feed they use to increase milk production, which increases the omega 6 content while the omega 3 is still controlled by the cows metabolic feedback mechanism. So we buy extract of muscles from the pristine waters of New Zealand to compensate. Early research is showing that fecal transplants cure some gut issues.  Lastly, for a quick fix, try raising your vitamin D.  It may help more than anything else.  Doctors are happy with >20 ng/ml but the imunilogical effects seem to happen around >60 ng/ml.

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Vitamin D acts as a fat soluble hormone that facilitates intestinal absorption of calcium, iron, magnesium, and zinc. The latter two are essential components needed by the body to manufacture the histamine degrading enzyme diamine oxidase (DAO), so we definitely want to max out our ability to retain them. One of vitamin D’s most important roles however may be its regulation of the immune system, specifically histamine containing mast cells. In this capacity it has been shown to decrease production of histamine and leukotrienes.   https://healinghistamine.com/blog/the-role-of-vitamin-d-in-histamine-inflammation/

 

[Scott Adams]

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Humans are the only mammals that tolerate milk after infancy. 

Though I've seen this concept thrown around over and over, I've not seen any actual data on this idea. I mean people feed cats, and sometimes dogs, milk all the time, with no issues in those animals. I think the proper thing to throw around is that humans are the only animals that are smart enough to harvest milk and use it in their diets, while other animals, without our help, just can't do it. I do think many other animals can tolerate cow's milk just fine, they just have little or no access to it, which isn't a reason for humans not to include it in their diets.

[Wheatwacked]

Totally missed the logic there. Thanks. I did look for the research about benificial bacteria supplying most of our adult lactase but it was not to be found again. It was several years ago that I read it. In the meantime, it's not your grandfathers milk anymore. The gist is that supplementing with palmitic acid (C:16) increases milk and milk fat by about 25% while stearic acid (C:18) does not because the C:16 goes right into the udder, while C:18 denovo production is reduced by a feedback mechanism, homeostasis, regulating it in the udder.

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Without this enzyme, mammals are unable to break down and thus use lactose, and since milk is the essential component of young mammals' diet, lactase activity is fundamental to the early development of most mammals. After the weaning period is over, lactase production usually declines, although the mechanisms and evolutionary reasons for this downregulation are not fully understood. However, some humans continue to express lactase throughout adult life, and are thus able to digest the lactose found in fresh milk. This trait is called LP.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048992/. 

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Genetic selection for increased milk fat content also results in altered milk fatty acid composition, causing an increase in the proportion of short-chain fatty acids and a concomitant reduction in the amount of long-chained fatty acids (Palmquist et al., 1993).  https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/milk-fatty-acids

 

[Wheatwacked]

On a personal experience, I got progressively more lactose intolerant until I gave up milk entirely, but I like whole milk in my coffee, and I drink a lot of coffee. After GFD and a few batches of home made dill pickles, I was able to drink milk again. But late at night it would upset my stomach. That's when I switched to 100% pasture fed milk and now can drink 3 or 4 glasses a day with no issues (except the cost).

[trents]

When giving dairy products to cats and dogs, vets advise starting with very small amounts but increases over time to give the animal's gut biome a chance to adjust by making more microbes that produce lactase. I think it works the same for most people. Many other examples of new foods introduced into the diet could be cited.

Edited October 2, 2021 by trents

[Jackie Garrett]

6 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

Though I've seen this concept thrown around over and over, I've not seen any actual data on this idea. I mean people feed cats, and sometimes dogs, milk all the time, with no issues in those animals. I think the proper thing to throw around is that humans are the only animals that are smart enough to harvest milk and use it in their diets, while other animals, without our help, just can't do it. I do think many other animals can tolerate cow's milk just fine, they just have little or no access to it, which isn't a reason for humans not to include it in their diets.

Scott, we are advised by our vets not to give milk to Cats, I know in the supermarket there is Kitten milk in a pouch, I’m not sure what’s done or removed or added to that milk to make it suitable for them to drink ? I don’t know if dogs are recommended to drink it.

[Jackie Garrett]

Thankyou Wheatwacked for your comments. Yes a lot of people are saying how important vitamin D is in our diets, a lot of supplements will have Lactose as a filler, so those of us who are Lactose intolerant must watch out for that when purchasing their supplements.