Beware Of Soy!

[ladyx]

Why do you consider this to be such a well researched article. Of course they want you to think that milk is ok. There are some things that we just don't know it seems. I prefer my organic milk personally. NOw there will be a big discussion about milk. You can find basically any research article you want that will lean towards whatever side they want you to believe. There are SO many issues out there that we really don't know.

Pharmaceutical industry

Aspartame,

Dairy,

Meat,

Soy,

Flouride,

Microwaves,

cell phones,

water,

vaccinations

Just pick a topic and open a can of worms with somebody out there!!

Don't believe everything you read and try and do what is best for you and your family!! That is what I do.

I agree there are so many issues on so many things. I personally don't beleive everything I read. Especally in the main stream media. I wasn't trying to start a discusion on milk...was just trying to make a point that man boobs could come from something other than soy. I personally haven't met a lot of vegetarians who tend to use alot of soy with man boobs. Anyway, I would love it if soy made my boobs grow lol

[watchthestars]

I'm so frustrated right now. It's like no matter how health concious we try to be we are always missing something. Trying to stay healthy seems damn near impossible sometimes. now SOY might be bad for us? greaaat. so basically everything is bad...the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the majority of foods on the market. I give up. I can't live my life agonizing over this stuff, it's starting to drive me insane. i could get hit by a car tomorrow and die. I'm not gonna worry about the occasional tofu or glass of soy milk.

[GravStars]

I'm so frustrated right now. It's like no matter how health concious we try to be we are always missing something. Trying to stay healthy seems damn near impossible sometimes. now SOY might be bad for us? greaaat. so basically everything is bad...the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the majority of foods on the market. I give up. I can't live my life agonizing over this stuff, it's starting to drive me insane. i could get hit by a car tomorrow and die. I'm not gonna worry about the occasional tofu or glass of soy milk.

yea really. if only we could live off air and water, things would be so much easier. actually, some people believe that too... heh

[dajago]

Hi,

I want to address all that everyone is saying about soy products being bad for us. I have read all the posts on this thread & the overall pattern that I am seeing is that people are confused about what to believe. It seems like people are jumping at the answer & getting lost in a lot of technical jargon. I am not saying that it is bad to know the details but one thing that someone just taught to me is not to just rely on one perspective. The example that I give is that I discovered that you could get a Triumph card & hand it to the chef when dining out & they will see the list of everything you cannot have, as one having Celiacs. Well that sounds like a good solution, but my friend told me that you have to consider that manufacturer's change the way they make food periodically, and the chefs may not always be up on this so just because you think you know, you may not. You have to keep researching. Bottom line on what I am saying is, listen to what all is being said about soy.

1. There have been lots of reports of health problems with Soy.

2. There have also been reports of positive effects from Soy.

3. Soy is in everything almost in one form or another.

4. The Asian culture have used soy for how much longer than American's?

5. How many reports do we have from the Asian community of ill effects in there society?

6. How does American Soy ingredients differ from Soy ingredients in Asia?

Lets put this all together for the big picture.

There are reports on soy on both sides of being good and bad. So we know that It is good & not good as well. If the Asian society has not given reports of ill effects from their soy & American's have had ill effects, that would tell me that it is not necessarily the Soy itself that is bad, but how it is processed & derived into our foods. To me the bottom line is that American's are having so many problems with food because of the processing & also because food manufacturers are doing things to the food to make a buck instead of having our best health in mind.

I wrote this not to dispel anything that anyone has said, because belive me I am learning alot from your posts, but to hopefully, and I really emphasize this, to look at the bigger picture as well as the details. We are all struggling for the truth & the way to health & a good diet, so I hope this helps at least one other out there.

I am listing a link to a very good article that talks a little about soy in our diet, but also talks about hydrogenation & how bad it is for us. It really opened my eyes to some things. Let me know what you think.

Open Original Shared Link

Dajago

[darlindeb25]

Dajago, I am not sure, from your post, if you are for, or against soy. I haven't figured that out. In the beginning, I was thinking that you were telling us to stop giving soy such a bad rap, then, reading the link you gave us, I'm not sure where you are going with this post. Your link proves we should not eat soy, just this section alone proves it:

Your Metabolism Slows

Worse, most partially hydrogenated oil is partially hydrogenated soybean oil. That's a problem, because soybean oil depresses the thyroid--which lowers your energy levels, makes you feel less like exercising, and generally makes you fatter!

Of course, soybeans have been used for centuries in the Orient--but mostly as the basis for soy sauce and tofu. Asians didn't have soy milk, soy burgers, soy this and soy that. Most of all, they never used concentrated essence of soybean, in the form of soybean oil. And they didn't hydrogenate it, and they didn't use it in everything.

Walking down supermarket aisles in America, you find product after product with partially hydrogenated oil--often in products you would never expect. But why not? After all, it's cheaper than butter. And it's not illegal. Yet. When you eat out, restaurant breads and fried foods are loaded with stuff.

As a result, Americans are consuming soybean oil--partially hydrogenated soybean oil--in virtually everything they eat. It's no wonder that America is experiencing epidemic levels of diabetes, obesitiy, heart disease, and cancer.

This is saying that we, as Americans, are eating way too much soy, in the form of hydrongenated oil, and it is severely effecting our health. Epidemic levels of daibetes, obesity, heart disease, and cancer...NOW THAT'S SCARY!!!

Thank you for the link, I found it very informative, and I am thankful that I am intolerant of soy.

[larry mac]

I want to share will all my Celiac cyberspace friends what I found out about SOY. I thought I was getting better gluten & dairy free and replaced SOY as a major part of my diet. After almost 5 years of living gluten & dairy free I developed major THYROID problems I believe are from SOY. It is my opinion... but read for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I welcome others throughts and views on this so we all can understand this better.

Open Original Shared Link

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I'm sorry, but there's not one link that would lead me to believe normal soy consumption is bad for us.

Nexus magazine is basically a crackpot uppity version of the National Enquirer.

Several others are websites to sell books and/or products/services for the profit of Dr. Mary Shuman or Dr. Mercola. The internet abounds with doctors pushing their unconventional theories on unsuspecting or gullible victims. Many times these people buy into the conspiracy scheme and become absolutely obsessed.

One of the links is studies done on rats fed only soy.

One link discusses soy intolerance or allergies. So what. There's lots of allergies out there to everything. Just because some people are allergic to peanuts doesn't make peanuts bad for everyone else.

Here's what one link say's:

"United States

In a national survey of pediatric allergists, the prevalence rate of soy protein allergy was reported to be 1.1%, compared with a 3.4% prevalence rate of cow's milk protein allergy.5"

Doesn't sound that bad to me.

How do you know you wouldn't of developed major thyroid problems anyway? There's simply no way to know.

A couple of the links didn't work, so I couldn't read them. But, I'm willing to bet they're more of the same. Look, I'm not trying to say soy isn't bad for us. I have no idea. But these links don't sway me that's for sure.

best regards, lm

[Juliebove]

I believe soy pushed my thyroid over the edge. I used to consume a lot of it. I brought Tiger's Milk bars to work for snacks. I ate Edamame, roasted soy nuts, Bocca Burgers and paid no mind to any soy that was in the other foods I ate.

Then when I was pregnant, I developed a thyroid problem. I figured it was only a matter of time since thyroid problems run on both sides of the family.

My thyroid went hyper, hypo and back again. The Dr. was constantly adjusting my med and I never felt right. Then I learned of the connection to soy (and other goitrogenic foods) and thyroid problems. I stopped the soy and limited the other goitrogenic foods I ate. Although I must say I didn't eat them nearly as often as soy. Now I might have a serving of cabbage once a week, but that's about it. And no more thyroid problems! No more thyroid med!

[purple]

My 2 cents...They put high fructose corn syrup in everything and its bad for us...they put soy in everything...I wonder the same thing....they used to say coconut oil is bad for you...no, I believe the opposite...eggs are bad for you...hmm...cholesterol is bad so take drugs to lower it...diet pop is better for you than regular...no it really makes you gain weight...and on and on. I say limit the soy and don't use it as an alternative unless you have to. The " big companies" are only in it for the money. If its announced on a T.V. commercial...Buyer Beware.

[darlindeb25]

Of course, as in anything else, this is an individual decision. 4 or my 5 children had soy formula, and now, I wish I had tried harder to find an alternate for them. I didn't know then, what I know now, and I did what the doctor told me to do. Doctor's were gods then, you listened to every word they said, and you NEVER QUESTIONED them. Now I realize, doctors are only human and make many, many mistakes.

This is something I just found, and I am in total agreement:

Open Original Shared Link

Vegetarians have elected to change a human diet which has stood the test of time and they have begun experimenting with many foods designed to replace meat for what they deem are ethical reasons. The most popular of of these meat protein replacements is by far, soy...

Don't be fooled. Just because they sell it in health food stores, does not mean it is healthy. In fact, soy has been shown to be quite dangerous.

Soybeans, as provided by nature, are not suitable for human consumption. Only after fermentation for some time, or extensive processing, including chemical extractions and high temperatures, are the beans, or the soy protein isolate, suitable for digestion when eaten.

Soybeans also contain an anti-nutrient called "phytic acid", which all beans do. However, soybeans have higher levels of phytic acid than any other legume. Phytic acid blocks the absorption of certain minerals, including magnesium, calcium, iron and zinc. Epidemiological studies have shown that people in 3rd World Countries who have high consumption of grains and soy also commonly have deficiencies in these minerals. It must also be noted that this may be of particular concern with regard to babies who are using soy-based infant formulas.

In addition, soybeans also contain hemagglutinin, a clot-promoting substance which causes red blood cells to clump together. These clustered blood cells cannot properly absorb oxygen for distribution to the body's tissues, and are unable to help in maintaining good cardiac health. Hemagglutinin and trypsin inhibitors are both "growth depressant" substances.

Although the act of fermenting soybeans does de-activate both hemagglutinin and trypsin inhibitors, cooking and precipitation do not. Although these enzyme inhibitors are found in reduced levels within precipitated soy products like tofu, they are not completely eliminated.

Soy starts out poisonous and goes through extensive chemical processing to eliminate as much of these poisons as possible. All of the poisons cannot really be removed in their entirety and virtually none of the hormones and/or hormone-like chemicals (isoflavones) are removed.

Soy proponents claim that soy is a staple in Asia. This is simply not true. Soy is merely used as a condiment or seasoning, and even as such it likely contributes to the high level of thyroid disease and thryoid cancer in Asia.

Overall consumption of soy in Asia is surprisingly low. The average soy consumption in China is about 10 grams or 2 teaspoons per day. Levels are somewhat higher in Japan, averaging about 50 grams or 1/4 cup per day.

In both countries, soy is used as a condiment or flavoring, and not as a substitute for animal foods. Seafood and seaweed in the Japanese diet provide sufficient iodine to counteract the negative effects of the isoflavones in soy. Statistically important is the fact that there are also very high levels of thyroid cancer and thyroid problems in Asia.

As early as 1917 researchers noted that soybeans had to be heat-treated in order for soy-fed rats to grow--presumably because soy contains a substance that inhibits digestion. Over the years, scientists have reported other potential problems with soy In this decade two women--Mary G. Enig, Ph.D., a fellow at the American College of Nutrition and a nutritional biochemist in Silver Spring, Md., and Sally W. Fallon, editor of the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Journal, which reports on the dietary habits of indigenous peoples--sought to make sense of these studies.

In 1995, Enig and Fallon believed they had found enough research to support certain charges against soy, particularly the concerns over thyroid inhibition, protein digestion, and mineral absorption. They wrote an article for the September 1995 issue of Health Freedom News--a publication of the nonprofit health advocacy group called National Health Federation in Monrovia, Calif.--in which they detailed these charges and cited dozens of scientific studies.

So, should you eat soy?

Should you feed it to your children?

It nearly killed the author of this website who consumed large amounts of soy milk daily in lieu of cow's milk due to lactose intolerance. The result: Severe hyperthyroidism which nearly resulted in death from "Thyroid Storm". .

As I said, it's an individual decision, and I choose not to use soy, well, my body choose for me, I am intolerant of it. I also do not eat anything with high fructose corn syrup in it.

[RiceGuy]

Well, I haven't read every post, but I have previously done some research on soy. What I found is that many claims on BOTH sides are simply exaggerated or false. Others are misinterpretations, or the author has jumped to conclusions. Basically, there's confusion on both sides.

The main thing I found to be bad about soy is that it contains Open Original Shared Link. These are substances which tend to lower thyroid function. Within that article, there is something which will probably alarm some of you. Namely, that cassava also contains a substance which has such a lowering affect on the thyroid too. As many of you already know, cassava is what tapioca comes from. Now, how many of us on this board rely on tapioca???

The above referenced article also shows that many, many foods have goitrogens, so the concern should be in the amount, not the mere presence of it. The diet should be in balance, so that the effect isn't a danger to one's health. Keep in mind, that there are also substances which raise thyroid function. Too much of those is probably bad too. The key, once again, is balance.

As the saying goes; 'Too much of anything is not good for you'.

With regard to soy lecithin, it is isolated from soy oil, which doesn't contain the goitrogenic compound. So soy oil is not goitrogenic either. I reference this article: Open Original Shared Link

Sure, if you overdo it on soy, it's bad for you. So the question is how much is bad, not if it's bad.

One final note: Asians have used soy for a long time, and they seem to historically outlive us, and maintain a healthier life as well. But historically, they eat far less animal based foods (meat and dairy), and much more veggies. Consider the typical American diet. I can see how adding a lot of soy can be detrimental to that. Americans typically don't eat enough veggies, and they eat WAY too much meat and dairy products. Again, balance is the key.

[darlindeb25]

Why are there so many articles about Asians not eating that much soy. Sorry, nothing will change my mind about soy, IT'S BAD, period!!!

Open Original Shared Link

Just How Much Soy Did Asains Eat?

In short, not that much, and contrary to what the industry may claim soy has never been a staple in Asia. A study of the history of soy use in Asia shows that the poor used it during times of extreme food shortage, and only then the soybeans were carefully prepared (e.g. by lengthy fermentation) to destroy the soy toxins. Yes, the Asians understood soy all right!

Many vegetarians in the USA, and Europe and Australia would think nothing of consuming 8 ounces (about 220 grams) of tofu and a couple of glasses of soy milk per day, two or three times a week. But this is well in excess of what Asians typically consume; they generally use small portions of soy to complement their meal. It should also be noted that soy is not the main source of dietary protein and that a regime of calcium-set tofu and soymilk bears little resemblance to the soy consumed traditionally in Asia.

Perhaps the best survey of what types/quantities of soy eaten in Asia comes from data from a validated, semi quantitative food frequency questionnaire that surveyed 1242 men and 3596 women who participated in an annual health check-up program in Takayama City, Japan. This survey identified that the soy products consumed were tofu (plain, fried, deep-fried, or dried), miso, fermented soybeans, soymilk, and boiled soybeans. The estimated amount of soy protein consumed from these sources was 8.00

[RiceGuy]

Why are there so many articles about Asians not eating that much soy.

...

...

According to KC Chang, editor of Food in Chinese Culture, the total caloric intake due to soy in the Chinese diet in the 1930's was only 1.5%, compared with 65% for pork.

I agree that Asians haven't traditionally gorged themselves on soy. But a quick Google search shows that the very same article you referenced has been circulated all over the place. Science works best with independent confirmation. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but it's a little like those email chain letters that we all seem to get.

Speaking of science, that bit about 1.5% for soy and 65% for pork doesn't seem right at all. From my calculations, on a 2000 calorie diet, that would be around 2 pounds of pork! I'm sure I don't have to go into how absurd that is. It might be clearer to put it in terms of ounces rather than calories, but I suspect it was done that way purposely, to make it difficult for the average person to discern. I got my calorie information from the Open Original Shared Link.

On pages 85-86 of "The Primal Feast" By Susan Allport, is says Asians have been making tofu for centuries. That doesn't sound like they're avoiding it.

There are also numerous article on the benefits of soy. For instance:

Soybean products contain phytoestrogens called isoflavones, which have been highly studied to determine their health benefits. The estrogenic and antioxidant properties of isoflavones may explain the link to cholesterol reduction, bone health, and prevention against heart disease and certain types of cancer. O

[JNBunnie1]

People in both camps - for and against - can and will say all sorts of stuff about soy. But from all I've read and heard, it seems to me that the modern day American diet is far worse than what soy consumption might do on its own.

Again, I'm not in favor of bunches of soy, but I also don't run from it like it's the Black Plague. There's an old saying; "All things in moderation".

I'll agree with the sentence above. However, I think what needs to happen is that people take a bigger step back and look at a much bigger picture than they have been. Soy sauce and the occasional soybean pod in your stir-fry aren't going to damage anyone, if that's all they've EVER ingested. However, feeding a baby soy formula exclusively is roughly the equivalent of giving them 4 birth control pills a day. If you walk in a baby section in the grocery store, fully HALF of the cans and bottles on the shelf are soy formula. So talking about eating things in moderation is great, but you need to actually determine whether you ARE eating in moderation. Soy is in 80% of the food in the grocery store. We are way past moderation.

And it's great and lovely that asians have been using soy for centuries. Hispanics, Africans, Middle-easterns and Caucasians HAVEN'T. We, as a group of races, have introduced this particular food (in far greater amounts than asians ever used) only in the past 60 or so years, and you cannot ignore the fact that this introduction (along with that of oils as a substitute for animal fats) has coincided with the greatest rise in autoimmune disease in history.

[Janessa]

I have been looking into soy a lot lately because I am a vegetarian and was eating too much of it. It was definitely giving me bad PMS and messing with my BC pills and probably other things as well. Now I only eat it in small amounts and try to only eat fermented soy.

But I find it interesting that a lot of things that make a large majority of of sick was eaten very differently until recent history. Grains and legumes were soaked and fermented, now everything is made as fast as possible. Dairy products were cultured and fresh and historically from goats or sheep that are not nearly as bad a cow for our systems. Not to mention all of the horrible chems and unnatural things like corn syrup that is added to everthing.

No wonder we are all so sick

[RiceGuy]

I'll agree with the sentence above. However, I think what needs to happen is that people take a bigger step back and look at a much bigger picture than they have been. Soy sauce and the occasional soybean pod in your stir-fry aren't going to damage anyone, if that's all they've EVER ingested. However, feeding a baby soy formula exclusively is roughly the equivalent of giving them 4 birth control pills a day. If you walk in a baby section in the grocery store, fully HALF of the cans and bottles on the shelf are soy formula. So talking about eating things in moderation is great, but you need to actually determine whether you ARE eating in moderation. Soy is in 80% of the food in the grocery store. We are way past moderation.

And it's great and lovely that asians have been using soy for centuries. Hispanics, Africans, Middle-easterns and Caucasians HAVEN'T. We, as a group of races, have introduced this particular food (in far greater amounts than asians ever used) only in the past 60 or so years, and you cannot ignore the fact that this introduction (along with that of oils as a substitute for animal fats) has coincided with the greatest rise in autoimmune disease in history.

I agree with the fact that babies shouldn't be given soy formula. Actually, they shouldn't be given anything other than their own mother's milk. Any substitute will bring problems of some kind down the road. Whether or not we recognize it is another matter. I don't know that the 4 birth control pills part is accurate though. It would depend on the amount of soy, and the amount of each kind of isoflavone it contains. Apparently, not all the isoflavones in soy have estrogen-like effects. Some are said to have just the opposite effect. This isn't something I've run into much at all, but I intend to dive into it when I get the chance. If the estrogenic effects are canceled to some degree, that should be factored in. All beans have such compounds, in varying amounts. But again, the type and quantity of each should be considered. In fact, many vegetables have compounds which people who avoid soy argue against, though generally to a lesser degree.

I also agree that there's too much soy in processed foods. But many Americans eat way too much processed foods anyway, soy not withstanding. If people actually made their own meals, from natural, wholesome ingredients, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Open Original Shared Link

Here's something on Open Original Shared Link:

Soybeans and processed soy foods do not contain the highest "total phytoestrogen" content of foods. A study in which data were presented on an as-is (wet) basis per 100 g and per serving found that food groups from highest to lowest levels of total phytoestrogens per 100 g are nuts and oilseeds, soy products, cereals and breads, legumes, meat products, various processed foods that may contain soy, vegetables, and fruits.

Again, I'm not arguing either for or against soy. But I think there are too many misinterpretations and halve-truths floating around for me to make a solid conclusion without more investigation. As I said before, there's a lot of conflicting stuff out there on soy. Different types of soy products contain different amounts of the compounds in question. So it just doesn't seem fair IMO to label anything with soy as bad enough to avoid in any quantity.

[darlindeb25]

Again, I'm not arguing either for or against soy. But I think there are too many misinterpretations and halve-truths floating around for me to make a solid conclusion without more investigation.

Yes, but you see Riceguy, that's only your opinion. I do not think I have been reading misinterpretations, or half-truths...I have made a solid conclusion...IMHO, soy is bad for everyone, I know it's bad for my family and me.

[VioletBlue]

You know . . . I've been reading and posting here for well over a year and a half now. In that time I've been told emphatically and absolutely that the following things are VERY VERY BAD; meat - yes all meat, milk, soy, coffee, some fool even said chocolate-wonder if he lived to tell about it, corn, potatoes, all drugs, exercise, lack of exercise, sex, tree pollen, hemp, margarine, butter, protein, carbohydrates, citrus, olive oil, nuts, fish, eggs, caviar, all soft drinks, caffeine, sugar, corn syrup, corn oil, Canola oil, the glue on envelopes, and if I remember right someone here even claimed to be allergic to water.

So you'll forgive me if I don't take all of that at face value and instead run it by myself and my own body first. But then I try to be a balanced person, and with the exception of the occasional chocolate binge which according to at least one person will catch up with me sooner or later, I seem to be doing all right by simply weeding out the things my body responds negatively to and eating everything else my body can tolerate in moderation. But then I tend to believe that I am the ultimate authority on me.

Moderation is I fear rapidly becoming an outdated concept in every sense possible.

[Lisa]

Moderation is I fear rapidly becoming an outdated concept in every sense possible.

I like this statement And, I totally agree.

[darlindeb25]

Moderation is I fear rapidly becoming an outdated concept in every sense possible.

I agree, this is a very good statement.

[RiceGuy]

Moderation is I fear rapidly becoming an outdated concept in every sense possible.

I believe you're right, unfortunately.