what is all about ?

[grumbleguts]

Have had anemia for years. having had B12 injections and iron meds and folic acid meds for a number of years also have had a tumour removed from stomach. Now because all of a sudden i have higher levels of infection fighting celss Doc has ordered tests for coeliac disease. surely i would have known years ago when they have taken biopsies of stomach. ? I have had type 2 for years.  why is there never enough info on  specific tests and causative agents and results. What does gastric malabsorption mean ? caan that lead to coeliac disease? 

 

[plumbago]

9 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

Now because all of a sudden i have higher levels of infection fighting celss

Can you clarify that last word?

 

10 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

What does gastric malabsorption mean ? caan that lead to coeliac disease? 

It means, in the case of celiac disease, that the villi lining your small intestines have been flattened and because they're how absorption of nutrients take place, without them, you can have malabsorption. The way I've been taught about it is that celiac disease can lead to malabsorption (not the other way around).

 

11 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

I have had type 2 for years.  why is there never enough info on  specific tests and causative agents and results

Do you mean type 2 diabetes? There is a ton of information (on this site and on other Celiac sites - Chicago, Cincinnati) on specific tests.

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, grumbleguts!

First, there is a statistical correlation between celiac disease and type 1 diabetes, but not really with type 2. https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/related-conditions/diabetes-and-celiac-disease/

Second, celiac disease damages the lining of the small bowel but not the stomach. There are specific blood tests designed to detect celiac disease. The blood tests look for antibodies produced by the inflammation of the small bowel lining characteristic of celiac disease, the "infection fighting cells" you reference. Another kind of test for celiac disease is to take a biopsy of the small bowel lining and look for damage under a microscope.

The small bowel lining ("villi") is where the nutrients from our food are absorbed. Celiac disease damages the villi which reduces the efficiency of nutrient absorption. And that is why people with celiac disease develop vitamin and mineral deficiencies even though they are eating well.

We know there are certain genes that predispose people to develop celiac disease but they remain inactive until some triggering stress event hits the body like a viral infection.

The last thing I would say in response to your post is that the medical community as a whole is pretty ignorant about celiac disease. It just isn't on most general practitioners' radar. That's why it can take so long to getting checked for celiac disease. Thankfully, awareness is slowly improving within the medical community.

[grumbleguts]

7 minutes ago, trents said:

Welcome to the forum, grumbleguts!

First, there is a statistical correlation between celiac disease and type 1 diabetes, but not really with type 2. https://celiac.org/about-celiac-disease/related-conditions/diabetes-and-celiac-disease/

Second, celiac disease damages the lining of the small bowel but not the stomach. There are specific blood tests designed to detect celiac disease. The blood tests look for antibodies produced by the inflammation of the small bowel lining characteristic of celiac disease, the "infection fighting cells" you reference. Another kind of test for celiac disease is to take a biopsy of the small bowel lining and look for damage under a microscope.

The small bowel lining ("villi") is where the nutrients from our food are absorbed. Celiac disease damages the villi which reduces the efficiency of nutrient absorption. And that is why people with celiac disease develop vitamin and mineral deficiencies even though they are eating well.

We know there are certain genes that predispose people to develop celiac disease but they remain inactive until some triggering stress event hits the body like a viral infection.

The last thing I would say in response to your post is that the medical community as a whole is pretty ignorant about celiac disease. It just isn't on most general practitioners' radar. That's why it can take so long to getting checked for celiac disease. Thankfully, awareness is slowly improving within the medical community.

Thank you. Your reply it's depth and Clarity is just what I needed. I am happy now to await the results of the tests.. 

[grumbleguts]

17 minutes ago, plumbago said:

Can you clarify that last word?

 

It means, in the case of celiac disease, that the villi lining your small intestines have been flattened and because they're how absorption of nutrients take place, without them, you can have malabsorption. The way I've been taught about it is that celiac disease can lead to malabsorption (not the other way around).

 

Do you mean type 2 diabetes? There is a ton of information (on this site and on other Celiac sites - Chicago, Cincinnati) on specific tests.

Type 2 can also cause malabsorbtion. We know that Gastritis has been ongoing for a long time caused by the aforementioned.  I have had several scopes of the gastric stomac and apart from this there is extremely long time for contents to leave the stomach and slow transit thereafter. wasjust wondering if these can also predispose one to coeliac diseas. Just do not understand why Doc has ordered these tests. Thank you for your prompt reply.

[trents]

Another thing to grasp and bend your head around is that celiac disease is not a food allergy. It is an autoimmune response triggered by a food ingredient (gluten). Autoimmune responses are where the body attacks its own tissues. In this case, when you eat something with gluten (a protein found in wheat, barley and rye), when it leaves the stomach and travels to the small bowel and comes in contact with the villi, the immune system misinterprets the gluten as an invader and sends fighting cells to the villi. The battle produces inflammation in the villi that damage them over time.

[trents]

15 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

Type 2 can also cause malabsorption. We know that Gastritis has been ongoing for a long time caused by the aforementioned.  I have had several scopes of the gastric stomac and apart from this there is extremely long time for contents to leave the stomach and slow transit thereafter. wasjust wondering if these can also predispose one to coeliac disease. Just do not understand why Doc has ordered these tests. Thank you for your prompt reply.

I don't think that is the mechanism involved in generating celiac disease. It's not the slow transit that is the issue. It is the immune system misinterpreting gluten as an invader. See my previous post above. So, the real problem is that something in the immune system is haywire that causes it to mistakenly identify gluten as harmful.

By the way, the biopsies of your stomach may have been triggered by your anemia. There is a kind of anemia known as "pernicious anemia." With pernicious anemia, there is an autoimmune attack of the parietal cells that line the stomach. The parietal cells produce an enzyme know as "intrinsic factor" which is necessary for the absorption of B12, which in turn is necessary for the absorption of iron from our diet. And so, the result is iron deficiency anemia. One way to compensate for that is B12 injections. We have also discovered that large doses of B12 orally can also work as there is a secondary, less efficient pathway for B12 absorption by the body.

Edited March 16, 2022 by trents

[grumbleguts]

1 hour ago, trents said:

I don't think that is the mechanism involved in generating celiac disease. It's not the slow transit that is the issue. It is the immune system misinterpreting gluten as an invader. See my previous post above. So, the real problem is that something in the immune system is haywire that causes it to mistakenly identify gluten as harmful.

By the way, the biopsies of your stomach may have been triggered by your anemia. There is a kind of anemia known as "pernicious anemia." With pernicious anemia, there is an autoimmune attack of the parietal cells that line the stomach. The parietal cells produce an enzyme know as "intrinsic factor" which is necessary for the absorption of B12, which in turn is necessary for the absorption of iron from our diet. And so, the result is iron deficiency anemia. One way to compensate for that is B12 injections. We have also discovered that large doses of B12 orally can also work as there is a secondary, less efficient pathway for B12 absorption by the body.

Yes have had pernicious Aneamia for years. think its the raised immune cells that the doc is now worried about..  I was told not to take B12 orally. Thank you. I think she is just taking a stap in the dark to make it look as though she is doing something ! lol..

 

[trents]

What reason did she give you for not taking oral B12? In large enough doses it usually works. There's research on that.

Edited March 16, 2022 by trents

[frieze]

How old were you when dx with type II,  and are you insulin dependent?  If young and yes, perhaps you are LADA, instead?

[grumbleguts]

18 hours ago, trents said:

What reason did she give you for not taking oral B12? In large enough doses it usually works. There's research on that.

Because I do not absorb it, probably because I had a tumour that resulted in a partial gastrectomy.. and the chronic gastritis? 

[grumbleguts]

1 hour ago, frieze said:

How old were you when dx with type II,  and are you insulin dependent?  If young and yes, perhaps you are LADA, instead?

I developed it in my 40's after having it during my pregnancies. Shocking since i was skinny  and was lightweight for my Height and build. Not insulin dependant.. drug regime. have no idea what LADA is. Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

Because I do not absorb it, probably because I had a tumour that resulted in a partial gastrectomy.. and the chronic gastritis? Thank you. 

 

[trents]

1 hour ago, grumbleguts said:

I developed it in my 40's after having it during my pregnancies. Shocking since i was skinny  and was lightweight for my Height and build. Not insulin dependant.. drug regime. have no idea what LADA is. Thank you. 

 

LADA is Latent Autoimmune Diabetes in Adults: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-1-diabetes/expert-answers/lada-diabetes/faq-20057880

[grumbleguts]

Thank You...Trents.

 

[knitty kitty]

3 hours ago, grumbleguts said:

I developed it in my 40's after having it during my pregnancies. Shocking since i was skinny  and was lightweight for my Height and build. Not insulin dependant.. drug regime. have no idea what LADA is. Thank you. 

 

Which drugs are you taking for your type two diabetes?  

[grumbleguts]

2 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Which drugs are you taking for your type two diabetes?  

Metformin 3 times aday. just got the lates test back 48 Mpl what ever that means we used to get readings in good old fashioned english. mils per ltr means nothing. .. lol. Dog has just prescribed Folat and ferratin meds again.... !! Thank you ALL  for your interests and help. If I can contribute in future i shall return..

 

[trents]

9 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

Metformin 3 times aday. just got the lates test back 48 Mpl what ever that means we used to get readings in good old fashioned english. mils per ltr means nothing. .. lol. Dog has just prescribed Folat and ferratin meds again.... !! Thank you ALL  for your interests and help. If I can contribute in future i shall return..

 

Milligrams per liter I'm guessing? Did you notice you typed "Dog" instead of "doc." But maybe that was intentional depending on how you feel about your physcian, hee! hee!

[grumbleguts]

Hahaha. Oh the trouble typos can get us into. Thank you for the Laugh... 

 

[knitty kitty]

@grumbleguts,

Be aware that Metformin will cause B12, folate, and thiamine deficiency.  

I suggest you discuss with your doctor supplementing thiamine as well as B12 and folate.

B12 and thiamine deficiencies can cause symptoms of altered mentation before blood tests reveal deficiency.  

Diabetics, both type one and two, have been shown to have low thiamine levels.  Adding Metformin can cause outright thiamine deficiency.

Gestational diabetes is shown to be connected to low thiamine levels. 

Gastroparesis, slow emptying of the stomach, is another symptom of low thiamine levels.  Gastritis is also seen with insufficient Thiamine levels. 

Thiamine deficiency can have symptoms of altered mental status called Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  

Do you feel your mentality has changed in the time you've been taking Metformin? Having memory difficulty?  Fatigue? 

Since blood tests aren't an accurate measurement of thiamine stores, high dose Thiamine supplementation (>500 mg/day) for several days should produce improvement in symptoms.

The World Health Organization -WHO - says a thiamine deficiency can be diagnosed if supplementing with 500 mg thiamine hydrochloride brings improvement.  Some get improvement within hours.  

I took Metformin and got very ill and the doctors were clueless as to the interconnection between Celiac, Diabetes (yes, @trents, there is a connection with type two diabetes and Celiac*), and thiamine deficiency.

Do discuss thiamine deficiency with your doctor!

*  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639597/

 

[trents]

1 hour ago, knitty kitty said:

@grumbleguts,

Be aware that Metformin will cause B12, folate, and thiamine deficiency.  

I suggest you discuss with your doctor supplementing thiamine as well as B12 and folate.

B12 and thiamine deficiencies can cause symptoms of altered mentation before blood tests reveal deficiency.  

Diabetics, both type one and two, have been shown to have low thiamine levels.  Adding Metformin can cause outright thiamine deficiency.

Gestational diabetes is shown to be connected to low thiamine levels. 

Gastroparesis, slow emptying of the stomach, is another symptom of low thiamine levels.  Gastritis is also seen with insufficient Thiamine levels. 

Thiamine deficiency can have symptoms of altered mental status called Wernicke's Encephalopathy.  

Do you feel your mentality has changed in the time you've been taking Metformin? Having memory difficulty?  Fatigue? 

Since blood tests aren't an accurate measurement of thiamine stores, high dose Thiamine supplementation (>500 mg/day) for several days should produce improvement in symptoms.

The World Health Organization -WHO - says a thiamine deficiency can be diagnosed if supplementing with 500 mg thiamine hydrochloride brings improvement.  Some get improvement within hours.  

I took Metformin and got very ill and the doctors were clueless as to the interconnection between Celiac, Diabetes (yes, @trents, there is a connection with type two diabetes and Celiac*), and thiamine deficiency.

Do discuss thiamine deficiency with your doctor!

*  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639597/

 

"The prevalence of celiac disease among patients with type 2 diabetes, with poor glycemic control despite insulin therapy, is slightly higher than the actual celiac disease prevalence in general population."

According to that one study, that is. I would think more research needs to be done on that issue such that there is a larger data base.

[knitty kitty]

21 minutes ago, trents said:

"The prevalence of celiac disease among patients with type 2 diabetes, with poor glycemic control despite insulin therapy, is slightly higher than the actual celiac disease prevalence in general population."

According to that one study, that is. I would think more research needs to be done on that issue such that there is a larger data base.

Shared Genetic Factors Involved in Celiac Disease, Type 2 Diabetes and Anorexia Nervosa Suggest Common Molecular Pathways for Chronic Diseases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4970800/

"In conclusion, even though the common mechanisms for the development of celiac disease, T2D or anorexia nervosa remains unresolved, the present study shows that several genes associated with T2D and anorexia nervosa are differentially expressed in children with active celiac disease as compared with controls, indicating a connection between these diseases."

[Wheatwacked]

There are around three hundred symptoms associated with Celiac Disease and your descriptions match. Has your doctor checked your vitamin D level?

Edited March 18, 2022 by Wheatwacked

[grumbleguts]

10 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Shared Genetic Factors Involved in Celiac Disease, Type 2 Diabetes and Anorexia Nervosa Suggest Common Molecular Pathways for Chronic Diseases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4970800/

"In conclusion, even though the common mechanisms for the development of celiac disease, T2D or anorexia nervosa remains unresolved, the present study shows that several genes associated with T2D and anorexia nervosa are differentially expressed in children with active celiac disease as compared with controls, indicating a connection between these diseases."

 

[grumbleguts]

Just now, grumbleguts said:

 

Wow.. That's amazing Knowledge you have and certainly will check it out. Dr's here in Uk are very reluctant to take into account any other research than their very limited own. and I think the tendancy to think it's' all in your mind re 'symptoms' ' rules.. I will certainly check out to see if we can get thiamin supplements here. Thank you so much.

 

[grumbleguts]

4 minutes ago, grumbleguts said:

 

Sorry to bother you again but would a problem with three different types of benign tumours i have had also be caused by a sightly deranged auto immune system? . No one else in my immediate family of parents and 8 siblings have ever had the health problems i have had. ?

 

20 hours ago, grumbleguts said:

Because I do not absorb it, probably because I had a tumour that resulted in a partial gastrectomy.. and the chronic gastritis? 

 

7 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

There are around three hundred symptoms associated with Celiac Disease and your descriptions match. Has your doctor checked your vitamin D level?

Yes have regular b12 injections. 300 ? Wow think they only have about 7 ot 8 listed over here. !