Are some of us over doing our Protein intake ??

[Jackie Garrett]

Are some of our health issues down to over consuming  saturated fat Proteins causing an accumulation in the body and the liver and kidneys are struggling to process these fats, we need the right amount of Protein for our IDEAL weight which isn’t that much, so are some of us over doing it ? Could Celiac/ NCGS be caused by Protein overload causing Protein intolerance symptoms as many sufferers can’t have Gluten or Dairy proteins. Milk byproducts are added to many many things that we consume that we don’t even realise just like Gluten is so it all adds up without us knowing what we are ingesting.
Here is an interesting article I came across. https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/03/03/eating-too-many-sulfur-amino-acids-may-boost-cardiovascular-disease-and-death-risk.

[Jackie Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Jackie Garrett said:

Are some of our health issues down to over consuming  saturated fat Proteins causing an accumulation in the body and the liver and kidneys are struggling to process these fats, we need the right amount of Protein for our IDEAL weight which isn’t that much, so are some of us over doing it ? Could Celiac/ NCGS be caused by Protein overload causing Protein intolerance symptoms as many sufferers can’t have Gluten or Dairy proteins. Milk byproducts are added to many many things that we consume that we don’t even realise just like Gluten is so it all adds up without us knowing what we are ingesting.
Here is an interesting article I came across. https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/03/03/eating-too-many-sulfur-amino-acids-may-boost-cardiovascular-disease-and-death-risk.

I know this article is about the heart, but i am wondering could there also be a connection with Celiac/NCGS (a Protein build up, causing an issue with Proteins ?)

[Scott Adams]

I've not heard of a high protein, and specifically an Atkins or Paleo Diet, causing any issues in people with celiac disease. On the contrary, many people who have switched over to those diets after going gluten-free have claimed that it has helped them finally get relief from their ongoing symptoms (specifically cutting out all grains, bad carbs, sugar, etc).

Many others have reported that they discovered their issue with gluten, whether celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity, after they tried an Atkins or Paleo Diet. Once they stopped eating gluten they felt 100 times better, then felt bad when adding gluten back in their diets. Here are some articles we've run on this:
https://www.celiac.com/search/?q=paleo&quick=1&type=cms_records2&search_in=titles

Also, there is a lot or conflicting research on whether this diet contributes to high cholesterol or heart disease, but recent research indicates that anyone on this diet would likely be better off focusing on leaner meats like chicken and fish, rather than red meat.

 

[Jackie Garrett]

On 4/27/2022 at 6:40 PM, Scott Adams said:

I've not heard of a high protein, and specifically an Atkins or Paleo Diet, causing any issues in people with celiac disease. On the contrary, many people who have switched over to those diets after going gluten-free have claimed that it has helped them finally get relief from their ongoing symptoms (specifically cutting out all grains, bad carbs, sugar, etc).

Many others have reported that they discovered their issue with gluten, whether celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity, after they tried an Atkins or Paleo Diet. Once they stopped eating gluten they felt 100 times better, then felt bad when adding gluten back in their diets. Here are some articles we've run on this:
https://www.celiac.com/search/?q=paleo&quick=1&type=cms_records2&search_in=titles

Also, there is a lot or conflicting research on whether this diet contributes to high cholesterol or heart disease, but recent research indicates that anyone on this diet would likely be better off focusing on leaner meats like chicken and fish, rather than red meat.

 

Thankyou for reply Scott, I know with all my life long symptoms that Dairy and things with Manmade starter cultures, Lactic/ Citric acids in are real Histamine Liberators with me, and also the Lactose  in medication, I think now that so many people are finding out about Histamine intolerance and improving their healths by avoiding some high histamine foods and drinks/ Medications, is hopefully going to get through to more Drs. and more people will find answers to their problems, like I did, I  found out  the answer myself, after 52 years, but I could of never have found out, no Dr ever suggested this to me, maybe they are not trained enough in this area so it’s not their fault, so my thinking is maybe Gluten and Dairy are proteins that are the Histamine Liberators in some of us, 3/4 of the population can not tolerate milk, I was part of the 1/4 that didn’t realise, it was my invisible cause, I am not sure how many people can not tolerate Gluten, Maybe Histamine  Intolerance could be part of the answer to many peoples health issues, time will tell. Are these proteins meant for us, and the byproducts are added to so much of our food/ drinks and Medications. Man made histamine and higher histamine accumulates    In some of us more than others depending on how we process it, we need to be mindful of this especially when our healths start to decline. I really wish Lactic/Citric acid Gluten was not used at all in preserving our foods/drinks and fillers in Medication, is there a more natural option to use I wonder. Food additives that are GRAS, meaning generally recognised as safe,  what kind of statement is that, (generally) it’s not safe for me. I keep well by avoiding these things. 

[Scott Adams]

It Histamine are a central issue for you have you tried taking allergy medication that lowers Histamine levels? Many allergy pills last 24 hours and work by decreasing Histamine levels.

[Jackie Garrett]

1 hour ago, Scott Adams said:

It Histamine are a central issue for you have you tried taking allergy medication that lowers Histamine levels? Many allergy pills last 24 hours and work by decreasing Histamine 

2 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

It Histamine are a central issue for you have you tried taking allergy medication that lowers Histamine levels? Many allergy pills last 24 hours and work by decreasing Histamine levels.

I have taken Anti histamine in the past when my Hayfever was really bad, they made me feel incredibly drowsy even the non drowsy one had this affect on me too, maybe it was the possible lactose in them, I never knew back then about my milk intolerance, I have a lot of side effects with medications so I try and avoid them if I can, I also think that if the food is making me have these reactions is my body trying to tell me that it’s not right for me, I know by my reactions now and making the connections, and know what to avoid and limit to the odd occasion. Thank you for your suggestion though. I have found lots of swaps now it was very difficult at first, but fine now.

[Wheatwacked]

On 4/26/2022 at 9:43 PM, Jackie Garrett said:

struggling to process these fats

This chicken little claim of too much protein started in the early 1960's, back when Weight Watchers was using slices of bread equivalents to compare different foods and TV dinners were ramping up. Next came too much fat. So I question: How is it that the Iceland Eskimos did not have diabetes until they started eating a western diet?

We are struggling to process fats because it is estimated only 10% of the world population following a western diet is getting the minimum of choline. Saudi Arabia was looking into fortifying eggs with omega 3. 

The omega 6 to omega 3 ratio in the western diet is as high as 11:1. Optimum is around 2:1. Omega 6 is inflammatory. In non-pasture fed meats and dairy (i.e., factory farms) the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio is around 5:1.

Quote

Composite foods, and ‘not further-specified foods’, were developed using the Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ) recipe files, and when applied it was discovered that less than 10% of the population were found to achieve the AI for choline (eggs again ranked top as a contributor).   https://nutrition.bmj.com/content/early/2019/07/16/bmjnph-2019-000037

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Wheatwacked

[Jackie Garrett]

9 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

This chicken little claim of too much protein started in the early 1960's, back when Weight Watchers was using slices of bread equivalents to compare different foods and TV dinners were ramping up. Next came too much fat. So I question: How is it that the Iceland Eskimos did not have diabetes until they started eating a western diet?

We are struggling to process fats because it is estimated only 10% of the world population following a western diet is getting the minimum of choline. Saudi Arabia was looking into fortifying eggs with omega 3. 

The omega 6 to omega 3 ratio in the western diet is as high as 11:1. Optimum is around 2:1. Omega 6 is inflammatory. In non-pasture fed meats and dairy (i.e., factory farms) the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio is around 5:1.

 

Thank you Wheatwacked, Choline is something not talked about enough, I only heard of it on this site for the first time from you. My theory is once the body is reacting from histamine overload from these proteins, we can get all sorts of symptoms and inflammation is a major one, which  i believe that’s when the gut environment starts to change by becoming more acidic, damaging our villi which absorb our very important nutrients, I eat meat but am now cautious with Red meat because it does have more saturated fat in it, even lean cuts contain some,  and I believe these fats from Red meat and milk are a lot for our bodies/ liver to process and begin to cause reactions within us, I was told that I had fatty liver about 10 years ago, I have never really drank alcohol much, so I knew that wasn’t the cause, but I have always had Dairy and Red meat in my diet very regularly, when I made the connection that milk (Lovely milk) that I had always enjoyed was the culprit I was devastated because it was a major part of my diet, and things that were  from byproducts of milk had to go to. I was told that my fatty liver wasn’t anything to worry about !!! Strange thing to say I thought, I went on to have a Scad heart attack, was it the build up of the fats and the liver struggling, the cause of it ? When I remove Dairy and things that contain parts of Dairy all my symptoms started to go, so it made me question are our bodies designed to break down these sort of proteins maybe some people can break them down better than others, maybe in small amounts, but when you actually look into how much protein we are meant to have a day it really isn’t that much based on our ideal weight, not based on  an overweight body. When preservatives are added to so many things they can also have byproducts of milk so it all adds up, when we start to get any symptoms is that the first sign  of our liver struggling ? Dairy contains Proteins/Histamine  for a calf that grows into a big animal, so they have the ability and are designed to break these down better than us, we don’t grow that big, so by us over consuming these things are liver can’t keep up, and causing histamine reactions. When some us add up our intake a day for our body weight I think we may be quite surprised how much we are consuming.

[knitty kitty]

Mucosal reactivity to cow's milk protein in coeliac disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810502/

"A mucosal inflammatory response similar to that elicited by gluten was produced by CM protein in about 50% of the patients with coeliac disease. Casein, in particular, seems to be involved in this reaction."

[Jackie Garrett]

2 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Mucosal reactivity to cow's milk protein in coeliac disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810502/

"A mucosal inflammatory response similar to that elicited by gluten was produced by CM protein in about 50% of the patients with coeliac disease. Casein, in particular, seems to be involved in this reaction."

Thankyou Knitty Kitty, a very interesting read. Preservatives are a thing that really needs looking into as well, adding to our levels, hidden under different names.

[Jackie Garrett]

I thought this was quite interesting. The Discussion is on page 18 if you dont want to read it all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625874/

[Wheatwacked]

I mentioned before that insufficient DAO is a cause of excessive histamine.

[Jackie Garrett]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:42 PM, Wheatwacked said:

I mentioned before that insufficient DAO is a cause of excessive histamine.

Maybe the DAO is insufficient because of Protein overload ??? 

[Wheatwacked]

These medications block the DAO enzyme:

Interesting that the same deficiencies found in Celiac Disease keep popping up in other "unrelated" diseases.

Studies have found that trying this diet can be important in confirming a diagnosis of the intolerance. It may also improve the symptoms.

However, a person should not have a low histamine diet in the long term unless a doctor recommends it and monitors the person’s health.

Vitamins and minerals that may benefit people with histamine intolerance include:

• vitamin B6
• vitamin C
• copper
• magnesium
• zinc
• calcium
• vitamin B1
• vitamin B12

[Jackie Garrett]

1 hour ago, Wheatwacked said:

These medications block the DAO enzyme:

Interesting that the same deficiencies found in Celiac Disease keep popping up in other "unrelated" diseases.

Studies have found that trying this diet can be important in confirming a diagnosis of the intolerance. It may also improve the symptoms.

However, a person should not have a low histamine diet in the long term unless a doctor recommends it and monitors the person’s health.

Vitamins and minerals that may benefit people with histamine intolerance include:

• vitamin B6
• vitamin C
• copper
• magnesium
• zinc
• calcium
• vitamin B1
• vitamin B12

Well Wheatwacked if we find the underlying cause, we may not get deficient in these Vitamins. 

[Jackie Garrett]

On 5/6/2022 at 5:37 PM, Jackie Garrett said:

Well Wheatwacked if we find the underlying cause, we may not get deficient in these Vitamins. 

I am wondering how many Celiacs and NCGS have had stool samples taken, they probably have had a lot of blood tests, but what about a stool test to see what their gut bacteria is up to.

I thought this was an interesting read: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227722/

[Scott Adams]

Many celiacs are diagnosed with Helicobacter pylori around the time of their diagnosis, which was true in my case. It was likely caused by my untreated celiac disease, but I was also given an antibiotic for it at the time of my diagnosis (in hindsight I'm not sure antibiotics were the best approach given what I know now about what they do to healthy gut flora). My doctor did do stool samples when trying to figure out my issues, but I believe they were looking for possible parasites.

[Jackie Garrett]

4 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

Many celiacs are diagnosed with Helicobacter pylori around the time of their diagnosis, which was true in my case. It was likely caused by my untreated celiac disease, but I was also given an antibiotic for it at the time of my diagnosis (in hindsight I'm not sure antibiotics were the best approach given what I know now about what they do to healthy gut flora). My doctor did do stool samples when trying to figure out my issues, but I believe they were looking for possible parasites.

That’s interesting Scott that you say many Celiacs are diagnosed with Helicobactor Pylori, maybe that WAS  the possible cause, rather than that being an after affect of the disease ?? Does the Protein from Gluten and Dairy feed this bacteria and the acid it excretes possibly be the cause of some of our intolerances and health problems, just a thought, I am going to see a Gastroenterologist  and am hoping to have some tests done, what I have found is how I keep well by avoiding milk, milk byproducts  and starter cultures is this because when I have it, it feeds a certain bacteria and what this bacteria excretes could be the issue ???? Or maybe it’s the bacteria itself ???? I know it can take a few months of antibiotics to  reduce  this bacteria, I don’t know if antibiotics can get rid of it completely,  So I am wondering are these Proteins adding to the problem or are the Proteins ok if there isn’t too much H. Pylori in our bodies ?? I like to question these things because we need to find answers to our health problems and by me avoiding Dairy I got well, is that because I am not feeding H. Pylori ??? I hope to have a test to find out if I carry this bacteria, maybe we all do to some degree, maybe Celiacs, NCGS carry more possibly ? 

[Jackie Garrett]

Or is H. Pylori not a problem in the gut if it’s not being fed certain things, are these things we are ingesting causing the issue with increasing h. Pylori ?? 

[Scott Adams]

Both Helicobactor Pylori and celiac disease are well-studied, and if there were a causal link where Helicobactor Pylori triggered celiac disease, I believe that it would have been noticed by now in the many studies that have been done to find triggers of celiac disease. 

Here are a few studies we've summarized:
https://www.celiac.com/search/?&q=Pylori&type=cms_records2&quick=1&search_and_or=and&search_in=titles&sortby=relevancy

and this one seems to counter that idea:

 

[Jackie Garrett]

But like you mentioned earlier Scott that many Celiacs are diagnosed with H. Pylori around time of their diagnosis there must be something in that. I personally wonder about too much Streptococcus bacteria in our bodies and what the affects that has on us, that’s the one that I think can cause a lot of issues with our healths. I  read that scientists are trying to find a vaccine for  this bacteria.

[Jackie Garrett]

16 hours ago, Jackie Garrett said:

But like you mentioned earlier Scott that many Celiacs are diagnosed with H. Pylori around time of their diagnosis there must be something in that. I personally wonder about too much Streptococcus bacteria in our bodies and what the affects that has on us, that’s the one that I think can cause a lot of issues with our healths. I  read that scientists are trying to find a vaccine for  this bacteria.

 

17 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

Both Helicobactor Pylori and celiac disease are well-studied, and if there were a causal link where Helicobactor Pylori triggered celiac disease, I believe that it would have been noticed by now in the many studies that have been done to find triggers of celiac disease. 

Here are a few studies we've summarized:
https://www.celiac.com/search/?&q=Pylori&type=cms_records2&quick=1&search_and_or=and&search_in=titles&sortby=relevancy

and this one seems to counter that idea:

 

If Gluten and Dairy Proteins are feeding H.Pylori and Celiacs and NCGS are avoiding these things after Diagnosis their readings would be lower for this bacteria because they are not feeding the bacteria with these proteins. Here is an article that I found interesting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5578575/

[Jackie Garrett]

I don’t know if it is routine when checking for Celiac or NCGS if a stool sample is taken to check for H.Pylori bacteria, can anyone tell me please if this is tested as well at the same time ? 

[Wheatwacked]

"Conclusively, the prevalence of H. pylori examined on antrum biopsies of celiac patients and on patients who underwent routine gastroscopy procedure were found to be lower in the celiac group, but the difference was not statistically significant... eradication of H. pylori should be considered before gluten-free diet.9 All these data and our study suggest that H. pylori should be investigated in patients with celiac disease." Is There any Association Between Celiac Disease and Helicobacter pylori?

This seems like an article downplaying the importance of early diagnosis of Celiac Disease and supporting the theory that a wheat-based diet is better for you. A. pylori is a transmissible infectious disease that like celiac disease is associated with low and deficient vitamin D. 

About half of the global population is infected with H. pylori, and the infection rate in developing countries is higher than in developed countries.  

In one study it was found that 75% of those low with vitamin D were resistant to treatment. 

Eradication was successful in 170 (77.2%) patients and failed in 50 (22.7%) patients. The prevalence of 25(OH)D deficiency was 30.5%. Mean 25(OH)D levels were significantly lower in the eradication failure group [(9.3 ng/ml] compared to the successful treatment group [19 ng/ml] The influence of vitamin D deficiency on eradication rates of Helicobacter pylori.

Treating Celiac Disease without increasing serum vitamin D leaves us open to other opportunistic diseases.

 

 

[Jackie Garrett]

Thank you  Wheatwacked for your reply,  I hope you are well, Vitamin D deficiency seems to crop up a lot, I have never been tested for Celiac Disease as I never have had a problem as far as I’m aware with Gluten etc, I never suspected milk until I increased it and my symptoms increased, I would like to be tested for Celiac to see what shows up, I feel fine but I have to be careful if I have something with Dairy in or my symptoms will come back which is such a shame. I am having a test done and it will be interesting if they find this bacteria and if they do, hopefully I can be treated  for it. There must be so many people out there with undiagnosed Celiac Disease. But one thing is for sure we should get plenty of Vitamin D and if people are having symptoms start a food Diary.