The glue foods theory, and Celiacs in Dogs

[Anniehall]

I found this today. It's more just someones opinion but interesting. I don't really believe it though. This is on the glue theory. It talks about humans and dogs. 

https://www.dobermantalk.com/threads/celiac-disease-in-pets.18942/

 

I wrote out my  experience with my bulldog who I've had for only a few months. There's an old thread on here along these lines but it's from 2007 and the discussion is closed.  

My dog had horrible mange rash when I first got him. I treated him with tea tree oil in carrier oil topically for three weeks but he had a seizure and I thought it may be from the oil. Then I started using a spray from walmart that still had some tea tree but was more dilute. The spray worked better than the oil to stop shedding. His hair was growing in but as the mange spots were getting better he was getting new spots. I read about dog food allergies effecting their immune system and making them more likely to get mange so I switched his food to a limited ingredient gluten free food with rice. The mange stopped getting worse and started healing up. I put all my dogs on flea and tick preventative that also treats mange since my one female had also caught mange from my bulldog.  The seizures seemed to stop for a time after beginning the spray and then he had a series of seizures one night about 3 weeks into using the spray and shortly after I realized he has reactions to gluten. I had stopped the spray and the mange stopped persisting anyway with the dietary change. I noticed when I had him on a no corn, wheat, chicken or soy food he seemed to do the best and when I'd start him back on limited ingredients food that included rice he'd have a seizure once every two or 3 weeks always in his sleep. The vet said the grain free food was not good for him because of the legumes, peas, and potatoes being linked to a heart condition in dogs. I tried another food that didn't have these ingredients, was grain free, but contained tapioca, and the mange rash came back in his armpits. Tapioca is another suspected allergen for him now. He had no seizures on that particular grain free food though. I went back to the no corn, wheat, soy, or chicken food. I got a seizure work up on him. His blood work came back normal. I could get a scan of his brain to see if it's neurological but it's very expensive so I'm holding off.  It's been 8 weeks straight of no grains and he has not had a single seizure, his hair is almost completely grown back in and there's no rash since taking him off the tapioca food. I believe my bulldog has celiacs and thats what causes the seizures. I found out only recently that celiacs can cause seizures. Rice seems to be a seizure trigger besides gluten. I want to try feeding him grain free but just meat and veggies. I think he would likely thrive most on that sort of a diet. Although I wonder if beans are really bad for all dogs or just some.  I met a man whose dog lived to be twenty six. I asked what he fed the dog and he said beans and rice along with dog food. Plus I've read that grains are good for the doggy microbiome similarly to how they are for humans. So I figure they're probably just not good for my bulldog since he has reactions. The only current signs of reaction that he still has is a slightly dry nose and mild eye boogers. I'm thinking meat and veggies only might clear that up. 

[Scott Adams]

You might be interested in this veterinarian who has contributed many articles to Celiac.com:

https://www.celiac.com/profile/102790-john-b-symes-dvm/content/

and specifically these two articles:

 

 

[Anniehall]

Thanks. I'll check this out. 

[Anniehall]

My main thought on the glue theory is if it is really true that everyone's duodenum is negatively effected by the glue foods. Wouldn't everyone appear to have a celiacs duodenum upon examination? Of course I'm skeptical because I don't react to corn or dairy. Plus it seems difficult to obtain enough calcium from the diet in the absence of dairy or a calcium supplement. Although I have been told that bone broth is a good high calcium alternative to dairy, it can contain variable amounts so it's a bit confusing how much one would actually need to consume to get the daily recommended value. Lactose intolerance seems to be largely genetic similarly to celiacs because it is much more common in Asians, Hispanics and blacks than in Europeans where as celiacs is much more common in Europeans.  This info seems to further support breeding outside of one's own genetic pool. Even if you're not directly related to your partner if you have a similar genetic background you may be unintentionally increasing the likelihood of genetic diseases in your children. Thoughts?

[Anniehall]

I just found this link that says lactose intolerance is way less prevalent than was previously estimated. 

https://www.uab.edu/shp/nutritiontrends/nutrition-know-how/consumer-concerns/lactose-intolerance

[trents]

28 minutes ago, Anniehall said:

My main thought on the glue theory is if it is really true that everyone's duodenum is negatively effected by the glue foods. Wouldn't everyone appear to have a celiacs duodenum upon examination? Of course I'm skeptical because I don't react to corn or dairy. Plus it seems difficult to obtain enough calcium from the diet in the absence of dairy or a calcium supplement. Although I have been told that bone broth is a good high calcium alternative to dairy, it can contain variable amounts so it's a bit confusing how much one would actually need to consume to get the daily recommended value. Lactose intolerance seems to be largely genetic similarly to celiacs because it is much more common in Asians, Hispanics and blacks than in Europeans where as celiacs is much more common in Europeans.  This info seems to further support breeding outside of one's own genetic pool. Even if you're not directly related to your partner if you have a similar genetic background you may be unintentionally increasing the likelihood of genetic diseases in your children. Thoughts?

We "breed" animals. People marry and have children.

I think some of the statistics showing differing celiac rates among different racial groups may have a diagnostic base to it rather than a genetic base. People of European decent generally live in places where they have better access to good healthcare resources. For instance, it seems to me we are now seeing a significant rise in celiac diagnosis in east Indians as the economy of that country has awakened in the last several decades. We often have posters from India on this forum now whereas that was not the case when I first joined this forum. Admittedly, that is anecdotal evidence. Just my thought.

[trents]

22 minutes ago, Anniehall said:

I just found this link that says lactose intolerance is way less prevalent than was previously estimated. 

https://www.uab.edu/shp/nutritiontrends/nutrition-know-how/consumer-concerns/lactose-intolerance

That's a good find. Thanks, Annie! I couldn't find a date on the article or the study, however.

[knitty kitty]

1 hour ago, trents said:

We "breed" animals. People marry and have children.

I think some of the statistics showing differing celiac rates among different racial groups may have a diagnostic base to it rather than a genetic base. People of European decent generally live in places where they have better access to good healthcare resources. For instance, it seems to me we are now seeing a significant rise in celiac diagnosis in east Indians as the economy of that country has awakened in the last several decades. We often have posters from India on this forum now whereas that was not the case when I first joined this forum. Admittedly, that is anecdotal evidence. Just my thought.

You're right, @trents,

During the past few decades, there's been an increase in non-European countries adopting the "Western diet" also known as the "Standard American Diet" (SAD).  A corresponding increase in the number of people being diagnosed with Celiac Disease is seen as more people move away from their traditional foods and follow the SAD diet.

[knitty kitty]

@Anniehall,

Mange is a result of blood sucking mites.  Has your bulldog been checked for anemia? 

Are you giving him a supplement with vitamins and minerals to replace the ones added to traditional dog food?   Supplementing may be a good idea since he's got more veggies in his diet.  

Edited May 6, 2022 by knitty kitty
Typo correction

[knitty kitty]

@trents,

At the bottom of the page of Annie's link, the source listed is dated 2009.  

[trents]

4 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@trents,

At the bottom of the page of Annie's link, the source listed is dated 2009.  

Thanks. See that now. I wish they would put stuff like that at the top instead of in the fine print at the bottom.

[Scott Adams]

3 hours ago, Anniehall said:

My main thought on the glue theory is if it is really true that everyone's duodenum is negatively effected by the glue foods. Wouldn't everyone appear to have a celiacs duodenum upon examination? Of course I'm skeptical because I don't react to corn or dairy. Plus it seems difficult to obtain enough calcium from the diet in the absence of dairy or a calcium supplement. Although I have been told that bone broth is a good high calcium alternative to dairy, it can contain variable amounts so it's a bit confusing how much one would actually need to consume to get the daily recommended value. Lactose intolerance seems to be largely genetic similarly to celiacs because it is much more common in Asians, Hispanics and blacks than in Europeans where as celiacs is much more common in Europeans.  This info seems to further support breeding outside of one's own genetic pool. Even if you're not directly related to your partner if you have a similar genetic background you may be unintentionally increasing the likelihood of genetic diseases in your children. Thoughts?

I think the best way to look at this is to look at animal digestive systems which have evolved to consume grains and grasses. They are entirely different than the human digestive system, and humans only began eating grains 12,000 - 20,000 years ago, which is a flash in the pan in terms of evolution. I believe gluten is one of the hardest things for all humans to digest, in comparison to what was likely consumed in a hunter & gatherer diet. 

We have some interesting articles in this category on the possible origins of celiac disease:
https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/the-origins-of-celiac-disease/

Including this one on how the genetic markers from celiac disease likely come from Neanderthal ancestry:

 

[knitty kitty]

Thanks, @Scott Adams, I like the Neanderthal article!  

The strains of wheat grown now are different from wheat grown in ancient times.  Wheat grown now has been bred (by Mandelian genetics, not GMO) to contain more starches than ancient wheat.

[Anniehall]

3 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

@Anniehall,

Mange is a result of blood sucking mites.  Has your bulldog been checked for anemia? 

Are you giving him a supplement with vitamins and minerals to replace the ones added to traditional dog food?   Supplementing may be a good idea since he's got more veggies in his diet.  

He had a seizure work up blood panel done. It came back normal. I'm not sure I'd his iron levels were checked or not. I'd have to call and ask on that. Mange is blood sucking mites but generally dogs immune systems keep mites in check. Some dogs end up with mange that is believed to be related to genetics where their immune system can't fight it off. There's demodox mange, which is more common in puppies, and often goes away on its own as the puppy matures. Then there's sarcoptic mange which is believed to be contagious amongst dogs. It seems like mange might just be more common in this region as well but I got him Florida not here. The mites can live in the grass fir a time. What's odd though is whether or not he's on the mange treatment and preventative which is most flea and tick preventatives ( many of which treat mange off label) if he comes into contact with certain foods he starts scabbing and itching and bleeding again. Like what happened with the tapioca, or when I initially got him before I realized that wheat is an issue for him. He's definitely got english bulldog in him. He might be mixed with sharpei or pocket bully. His breed is known for having skin conditions and allergies and subsequently a shorter life span. I'm starting to think it's more food related than anything. Someone sold him to me for 5 dollars saying they couldn't afford to take care of him. He was covered in sores from mange but I wasn't too worried about it because my old girl who had passed away in November had caught a bit of mange from the neighbor dog and I was able to treat it with a little tea tree oil twice a day. His mange was much more persistent. As the spots were getting better new spots were appearing until I switched his food to gluten free. Even the limited ingredient rice foods seem to trigger seizures though the mange stopped with the food switch. I've still got him on the no corn, wheat, soy, grains, or chicken food for now because he doesn't have seizures or skin issues on it. Chicken is a common allergen in dogs as well. I'm probably going to switch to a meat only soft food for him and just add veggies when I get my funds up again. Canned food is just more expensive. If chicken wasn't suspect I would just feed him from my food pantry meats but a majority of what they give me is chicken. 

[Anniehall]

3 hours ago, trents said:

Thanks. See that now. I wish they would put stuff like that at the top instead of in the fine print at the bottom.

Hmm. So I wonder what the true updated statistics are on lactose intolerance amongst different ethnic groups. I found a pdf about it but it was from a dairy group so it might have been biased. 

[Anniehall]

I want to do more research into what people traditionally ate in different parts of the world. It seems like most other parts of the world eat a lot more rice than Europeans. I'm mostly German and Germans seem to keep a very meat and potatoes type of diet traditionally but I'd have to look into it more. 

[knitty kitty]

@Anniehall,

For your bulldog, could you feed him raw liver?  It's pretty inexpensive and would get his vitamins and minerals up.  Thiamine deficiency can cause seizures in dogs as well as people.

For your research.... potatoes are from South America....how and when did they get to Germany?  

 

[Anniehall]

I don't know. I just know what my family eats when they all get together. German potato salad is a thing. Not sure how far back that goes. I haven't done research yet on that. Brats are a German thing but they're usually on a bun with some sour kraut  Reubens are on rye bread with sour kraut.   

[Anniehall]

Potatoes pancakes I thought were German as well. Might be wrong. 

[Anniehall]

https://www.expatrio.com/living-germany/german-culture/german-food

This is food that is common in Germany. Although not sure how far back it goes. Definitely not gluten free. 

[Anniehall]

My grandparents would have bread and jam with every meal. 

[Anniehall]

https://www.wildjunket.com/traditional-german-food-what-to-eat-in-germany/#google_vignette

This goes more in depth. The desserts are still gluten heavy. Alot of the main dishes are sausage pretty much. If you scroll under side dishes it talks about potatoes becoming a staple for German in the 17th century. 

[Anniehall]

Been thinking about this. Evolution can take millions of years so even if Europe has been eating wheat for 8000 years that's not very long considering people in Iraq have been eating wheat for 75000 years. Potatoes being common in German cuisine since the 17th century is still not a very long time for Germans to have been consuming potatoes either. My neighbor is European and Native American. I wonder how common celiacs is in Native people because they traditionally ate more meat, veggies, and corn.  She seems to have a lot of similar looking skin conditions to what I have and her diet is gluten heavy.  Europeans definitely have a dairy heavy diet but Indian people do as well. Lactose intolerance is common in India as well.  Really dairy hasn't been being consumed for so long by any people if you think about evolution taking millions of years.  All the glue foods have not really been around that long. Maybe there really is something to this theory. There's probably just variances in tolerance due to evolution but people regardless of ethnic background are just more likely to have issues with these foods in general. I'm leaning towards that celiacs and even lactose intolerance are just under diagnosed everywhere. When you think about western medicine taking over the world and usually focusing on treating symptoms instead of underlying causes for those symptoms it's no wonder so many doctors just don't know much about celiacs. My kid and I go to the same doctors office but he goes to the pediatrics side and I go to the adult side. My doctor said she couldn't order the blood test even though I just had recent gluten exposure., that I'd have to seen by a GI doctor. Which is scheduled way out in June. My son's pediatrician ordered the lab right away. I tried to come back and get the celiacs blood test ordered two weeks in a row now as a walk in to no avail. 

[Anniehall]

I keep thinking about the glue theory though. Eggs are a binder but I'm pretty sure humans have been eating eggs forever so it doesn't fit with the whole reacting to foods that were added into the human diet later idea. Plus what about other binders like bananas and chia seeds. Why are they left out of the glue theory I wonder.  I have read that bananas and avocados are cross reactives to latex allergy. 

[Anniehall]

The neadranthal idea fits into thinking that what people's ancestors ate traditionally may effect their bodies ability to tolerate what they eat today. Wouldn't it he nice if celiacs blood testing was routine for everyone? If that was the case I would have been saved years of suffering. Also then people wouldn't act like it's just some dieting fad. Even I was in such denial for so many years. I had a room mate with celiacs but I just didn't think I could have it. Things had to get progressively worse for me to realize. The health problems I've had that were persistent before I figured it out make sense now, and all I can do is be thankful I figured it out at all.