In the news: New Vitamin D Studies

[plumbago]

In some major news outlets, vitamin D is in the news. Studies are showing it does not even protect against fractures. You can google NYTimes etc and vitamin D to see the articles.

As a preface to my message, I would like to say that if you are going to respond by citing a lot of PubMed articles, I will just let you know upfront that I will probably not read them. My favorite kind of response is somebody who responds in a very thoughtful way that’s indicative that you have given enough thought to the matter that you can then put it back in your own words and express it as your own understanding. That's not to say we can make up our own facts! Cite things when necessary - I think that's in the rules of this forum, too. Finally, the following is not meant as a polemic, and it is not meant to be rude, so I appreciate not only thoughtful responses but polite ones.

The timing of this news is interesting because I recently checked out a book called Overkill by Dr Paul Offit (professor of pediatrics in the Div of Infectious Diseases and director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's of Philadelphia) in which he says that measuring and supplementing vitamin D for the vast majority of people is not necessary. Further, that the levels that have been established are completely arbitrary. The book is somewhat light on in-depth analysis, but he does cite his sources, for the most part.

This is, nutshelled, what he says: most of the studies supporting vitamin D use for things like protection against heart disease, infectious diseases, and cancer are observational. He is even ahead of today’s news by saying it doesn’t even protect against fractures. Offit says the only people who should be tested for it (and the tests should not just check a simple D level – that’s looking at only one part of the process - but rather, he says, PTH, vitamin D-binding protein and vitamin D) are those with malabsorption conditions like Celiac, weight loss surgery, people taking certain medications like steroids and anti seizure drugs. He cites the Institute of Medicine recommendations. He is not just making this stuff up himself.

His central point – and one I’ve wondered about since Covid's start with talk linking D deficiency to severe Covid – is that if Vitamin D is low, it is as a result of ill health and not a cause of it.

The question I have at this point is: am I someone with Celiac or am I someone with controlled Celiac? This lack of distinction is what bothers me no end. During Covid, there was a lot of talk about susceptibility to severe disease that  hypertension and diabetes presented to patients, and my question always was – is that uncontrolled htn and uncontrolled DM? Why couldn’t people just put a one or two sentence caveat in there, if it pertains?!?

On July 17, I did decide to stop supplementing D for one month. I am outdoors when it's sunny a lot, I try to be mostly the shade though - I try, but I live in a city and don't have a car - and am learning from medcram videos that there are myriad benefits to light, even indirect light (near infrared) that give us a high dose of melatonin. What medcram says is that from an immunity perspective, being exposed to sunlight, even indirectly, is absolutely not just about vitamin D. And Offit even talked about this: "In addition to D, sunlight also enhances the production of a variety of other substances, such as beta endorphins, which modify pain; calcitonin, which works in opposition to PTH; substance P, which affects blood flow, inflammation, pain, mood, anxiety and cell growth; adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), which controls the immune system and inflammation; and melancocyte-stimulating hormone, which reduces appetite, increases libido, and is responsible for skin pigmentation."

 

Plumbago

Edited July 29, 2022 by plumbago

[Scott Adams]

I've never taken vitamin D strictly for my bone health, which apparently is quite good. For me vitamin D seems to help a lot with eliminating the run down feeling that I had prior to adding it to my regular supplementation. I do think getting it naturally via sun exposure might work for you, but I often don't get regular sun exposure, especially during the winter time. Since I've only seen positive effects from supplementation, and none that are negative, I'll continue it. 

How is your vitamin D supplement omission going for you?

[LCAnacortes]

I had half of my hair fall out.  While testing for causes - we found my vitamin D was off the charts - low.  I am supplementing and will continue to do so.  I live in the Pacific Northwest of the USA and so we are sun challenged here. And I'm not necessarily supplementing for bone health - for me it is more for energy and to combat depression.  Since I learned in May that celiac runs strongly in my family my symptoms suggest that I have vitamin deficiencies and vitamin D is one of them. 

[plumbago]

  On 8/2/2022 at 7:07 PM, Scott Adams said:

How is your vitamin D supplement omission going for you?

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So far, no difference to speak of! So I can't really say. Among the putative effects I had been taking Vitamin D for was the so-called boost to the immune system. Offit calls this and nearly all other effects into question, for all - except, again, those with active malabsorption issues, and the other issues named above.

When I do test, I will try to do the three recommended tests (again, not just check a simple D level – that’s looking at only one part of the process - but rather the PTH, vitamin D-binding protein and vitamin D). I imagine it's going to be very hard to secure a D-binding protein test, esp without a doctor's order.

Again, what we have been thinking of as low, Offit says is likely not low at all due to the completely arbitrary way the range was established.

I don't know who or what is correct here, but it's all food for thought.

Thanks!

[Posterboy]

Plumbago Et Al,

Here is some research I have come across over the years that might help you.

We often over focus on a single nutrient (I have done the same) without being aware of it's Co-Factors that aids absorption of the Vitamin/Mineral we are taking.

For Vitamin D that is Magnesium.....and not Calcium alone.....which is how it is normal consumed.

See this article entitled "Role of Magnesium in Vitamin D Activation and Function"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29480918/

I will quote their whole abstract because it is informative....

Abstract

Nutrients usually act in a coordinated manner in the body. Intestinal absorption and subsequent metabolism of a particular nutrient, to a certain extent, is dependent on the availability of other nutrients. Magnesium and vitamin D are 2 essential nutrients that are necessary for the physiologic functions of various organs. Magnesium assists in the activation of vitamin D, which helps regulate calcium and phosphate homeostasis to influence the growth and maintenance of bones. All of the enzymes that metabolize vitamin D seem to require magnesium, which acts as a cofactor in the enzymatic reactions in the liver and kidneys. Deficiency in either of these nutrients is reported to be associated with various disorders, such as skeletal deformities, cardiovascular diseases, and metabolic syndrome. It is therefore essential to ensure that the recommended amount of magnesium is consumed to obtain the optimal benefits of vitamin D.

I see this a lot.....Magnesium is a Co-factor for several nutrients.....and medical science doesn't recognize it's unique and important role in human health.....

Dr. Derrick Lonsdale considered Magnesium and Thiamine the "Keys to Disease"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25542071/

I have found taking Vitamin D and Vitamin K together is more important than taking Vitamin D alone....

Two of the best medical researchers I know about Vitamin D is/was Dr. Heaney.

See this link to  his 3 part study on Vitamin D entitled "PART THREE: Defining normal – living on the plateau" which he says is important to defining "Normal".

http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2013/04/18/part-three-defining-normal/

And I would also recommend Dr. Chris MasterJohns to you.

Here is where he talks about taking Vitamin D with Vitamin K and he recommends also Vitamin A.

https://www.westonaprice.org/is-vitamin-d-safe-still-depends-on-vitamins-a-and-k-testimonials-and-a-human-study/#gsc.tab=0

This University Health News article explains/summarizes Magnesium role in utilizing Vitamin D well too!

https://universityhealthnews.com/daily/bones-joints/magnesium-more-important-than-calcium-for-bone-health/

I will quote their opening paragraph because it is instructive to us here for this topic.

"We know that calcium is crucial to bone health, but it can’t do its job without magnesium. Without magnesium, the body cannot:

Adequately absorb calcium

Stimulate calcitonin, a hormone that draws calcium from the blood and tissues back into the bones.

Suppress parathyroid, another hormone that breaks down bone

Convert vitamin D into its active form for calcium absorption

Activate an enzyme required for new bone to form

Regulate calcium transport"

Recent research about Magnesium and bone health and density also confirms these findings.

Entitled "An update on magnesium and bone health"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33959846/

Where they note quoting

"Considering the intervention studies published to date on supplementation with Mg, most have used this mineral in the form of citrate, carbonate or oxide, with a dosage varying between 250 and 1800 mg. In all studies there was a benefit both in terms of bone mineral density and fracture risk."

This is despite using poorly absorbed Magnesium forms......Bone density improved and a reduction of risk fracture was found.

Now it is not just Magnesium alone (again) we don't won't to over focus on one Vitamin/Mineral but it is a great place to start....

You will find other Minerals are also helpful and healthy for Bone Density.

I want to circle back around to Vitamin K......we almost always choose the "wrong baby to save" or chose the wrong Vitamin/Mineral to supplement with...

For Vitamin D that also means supplementing with Magnesium and Vitamin K.

See this research on Vitamin K and how it affects bone density as well......but is often overlooked with people often over focusing on Vitamin D instead...

See this research entitled "Vitamin K2, but not Vitamin K1, is Helpful for bone Density"

https://lmreview.com/vitamin-k2-but-not-vitamin-k1-is-helpful-for-bone-density/

Good luck on your continued Journey(s) in life!

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy by the grace of God,

[LCAnacortes]

I should add that I am not taking D3 alone.  I was taking a multiple (that contained wheat) and an Omega 3.  Then I found out that the vast majority of the symptoms I was experiencing was part of Celiac. I have not been officially diagnosed but it has been diagnosed in close relatives. Learning that I needed to go gluten free led me here and I found that other symptoms may go away with other supplements since our bodies do not absorb nutrients correctly. So now I am taking Magnesium, Niacin, Thiamine, a B Complex and a multi-vitamin that are all gluten free. I am slowly but surely feeling better.   

[knitty kitty]

Vitamin D by itself does not prevent fractures, but when taken with Calcium supplements, Vitamin D and Calcium have been shown to prevent fractures.

"Ca/D reduces the risk of hip and any fracture in analyses combining institutionalized and community-dwelling individuals."

Vitamin D Supplementation and Fractures in Adults: A Systematic Umbrella Review of Meta-Analyses of Controlled Trials

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8852203/

And...

Vitamin D and Calcium for the Prevention of Fracture

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6991219/

 

[Posterboy]

Plumbago

You might try some Boron.....it is an over looked Mineral that is important for bone health.

See this article about it.

Entitled "Pivotal role of boron supplementation on bone health: A narrative review"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32540741/

As I understand it (Boron) reduces the amount of Calcium, Vitamin D and Magnesium excreted by the kidneys.....maybe poor bone  health, in part, at least is a sign of a Boron deficiency.

quoting from an another article I have lost the UrL for....but summarizes well the role of Boron in the body on other Minerals and Vitamin D levels.

"However, the real benefit of boron appears to be that it lessens the effect of deficiencies in both vitamin D and magnesium. Adequate boron intake decreases the amount of calcium and magnesium lost in urine. Studies of postmenopausal women have shown this same decrease in urinary excretion of calcium and magnesium, an effect similar to that of estrogen. Thus, a diet low in boron may exacerbate deficiencies in both vitamin D and magnesium or any condition in which these minerals are lost in urine."

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

[Posterboy]

  On 8/3/2022 at 12:16 AM, LCAnacortes said:

I should add that I am not taking D3 alone.  I was taking a multiple (that contained wheat) and an Omega 3.  Then I found out that the vast majority of the symptoms I was experiencing was part of Celiac. I have not been officially diagnosed but it has been diagnosed in close relatives. Learning that I needed to go gluten free led me here and I found that other symptoms may go away with other supplements since our bodies do not absorb nutrients correctly. So now I am taking Magnesium, Niacin, Thiamine, a B Complex and a multi-vitamin that are all gluten free. I am slowly but surely feeling better.   

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LCAnacortes,

Thank you for letting us know you are slowly but surely feeling better!

When you participate on these forums.....you don't always get to know.....if you are making a difference.

Thank you for the positive feedback!

Good luck on your continued journeys!

Posterboy,

[LCAnacortes]

It is my pleasure. I am learning so much and it has made a lot of my past life make sense and gives me hope for the future. Before I went gluten free - it was a gamble to leave the house and I was turning down social engagements because I didn't know how I would feel that day or if I would have so many problems that I had to cancel.  I was job hunting and had to schedule job interviews in the afternoon because I didn't know how the morning would go. And stress made things even worse. Thank goodness I could interview from home. 

Now I can plan to go - and to eat carefully and pack food. I don't have the sudden episodes nearly as often and I am so grateful. 

Anyway - I think the way that I can contribute here is to encourage new members. Let them know that they are not alone and they are not crazy and sharing my experiences. Not to mention the stupid stuff that I did when I was learning not to cross-contaminate myself. My husband and I are still learning.  Thanks again for everything!

[knitty kitty]

Here's another study that finds in combination with other vitamins, Vitamin D can lower mortality risk in severe illness.  

 

Note:  publication date was before Covid.  This combination was used in ICUs during Covid.

Vitamin therapy in critically ill patients: focus on thiamine, vitamin C, and vitamin D

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6244527/

And one during Covid....

Role of vitamins and minerals as immunity boosters in COVID-19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8190991/