Nausea and fatigue almost all day

[trents]

Boiling them in the shell will not allow the steam to effect hydrolysis. I bought something like this to poach my eggs: https://smile.amazon.com/Nordic-Ware-64702-Microwave-Poacher/dp/B00004W4UR/ref=sr_1_21?crid=W09XJMVS9IQQ&keywords=egg+poacher&qid=1667923275&sprefix=egg+poacher%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-21

Crack the eggs into the cups. Pierce the yoke with a knife. Wet your fingers under running water and then sprinkle/spritz the eggs with the wet fingers. Takes about 60 seconds of cooking time in the microwave on high for two eggs. Makes it very easy to cook them this way.

Edited November 8, 2022 by trents

[itarachiu]

6 minutes ago, trents said:

Boiling them in the shell will not allow the steam to effect hydrolysis. I bought something like this to poach my eggs: https://smile.amazon.com/Nordic-Ware-64702-Microwave-Poacher/dp/B00004W4UR/ref=sr_1_21?crid=W09XJMVS9IQQ&keywords=egg+poacher&qid=1667923275&sprefix=egg+poacher%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-21

Crack the eggs into the cups. Pierce the yoke with a knife. Wet your fingers under running water and then sprinkle/spritz the eggs with the wet fingers. Takes about 60 seconds of cooking time in the microwave on high for two eggs. Makes it very easy to cook them this way.

I'm afraid to try them again, not for the moment at least...

I start to feel nausea again and I think the canned tuna is the culprit... I'm speechless...

I have to make a list and sort the foods by histamine level, salicylate level and oxalates level. Is there any compound(or whatever histamine, salicylate and oxalates are) that I should be worried?

[trents]

To answer your question, you probably know more about all this than I do and you seem to have researched it well and are aware of the issues. I'm afraid I can't add to your knowledge base at this point. Another thing about blueberries, though, is that they are very high in fiber so be careful with that. Fiber is good but too much of anything is not necessarily good.

[itarachiu]

I just made a connection, I Googled every food that I use to eat 1-2 years ago and what I eat in the last 2 months, and seems that I react to high histamine foods, almost 100% accurate, from 15 foods 14 of them were high in histamine. Now I will eliminate these high histamine foods and see how it goes for the next days.

Now I don't feel any discomfort in the intestine, he is mostly fine, I feel it in the stomach, histamine when is released according to Google you feel pain in the stomach, nausea and fatigue, which is exactly what I feel right now.

A few days ago I bet the bluberries caused me nausea but they are low in histamine, however they are high in salicylates, I still had nausea but no fatigue and no pain in the stomach.

What salicylates or histamine reaction have in common is nausea... which is the #1 thing that I experience almost everyday.

I will update again in a few days to see how it goes with no histamine foods. This might be the answer that I was looking for. I HOPE IT IS.

[trents]

Avoiding high histamine foods is very challenging unless you live in a place where fresh food is readily available, like in the tropics. All foods undergo an increase in histamine level with time. So anything canned, pickled, refrigerated for extended periods, or stored on shelves for extended periods will increase in histamine count. Yes, some foods are naturally higher in histamines than others but our storage and preservation practices cause all foods to become higher in histamine over time. It is very difficult to be consistent with a low histamine diet. I try to avoid the worst offenders but otherwise cope with taking a 3rd generation antihistamine and a DAO supplement.

[itarachiu]

9 minutes ago, trents said:

Avoiding high histamine foods is very challenging unless you live in a place where fresh food is readily available, like in the tropics. All foods undergo an increase in histamine level with time. So anything canned, pickled, refrigerated for extended periods, or stored on shelves for extended periods will increase in histamine count. Yes, some foods are naturally higher in histamines than others but our storage and preservation practices cause all foods to become higher in histamine over time. It is very difficult to be consistent with a low histamine diet. I try to avoid the worst offenders but otherwise cope with taking a 3rd generation antihistamine and a DAO supplement.

I may take in consideration an antihistamine supplement.

Here is another thing that I discovered. I joined this forum and my first post was about ciggarates if they have gluten. I remember while smoking(now I quit) that even after first ciggarate I could feel instant nausea. Histamine is released while smoking according to Google. Even coffee can trigger histamine release which I use to enjoy while smoking I eliminated coffee too btw because after I quit smoking I could feel nausea after drinking coffee, however not all the time, sometimes was ok but sometimes not.

[trents]

Keep in mind that it's the total histamine load in your body that is what counts. Total histamine load is influenced not only by what we eat but by allergens in the air that we breathe via pollen and pollutants, aromas, etc. That could explain why you seem to be able to eat something one day without issues but then experience a reaction to the same thing on another day. Some days our total histamine load is high and eating one more high histamine food tips us over the edge. That is why antihistamine supplements can help. When taken on a regular basis they help even out the histamine load.

[itarachiu]

10 minutes ago, trents said:

Keep in mind that it's the total histamine load in your body that is what counts. Total histamine load is influenced not only by what we eat but by allergens in the air that we breathe via pollen and pollutants, aromas, etc. That could explain why you seem to be able to eat something one day without issues but then experience a reaction to the same thing on another day. Some days our total histamine load is high and eating one more high histamine food tips us over the edge. That is why antihistamine supplements can help. When taken on a regular basis they help even out the histamine load.

Got it... so these antihistamine supplements I have to take them for the rest of my life or if I stay away from high histamine foods the body will recover after some time, just like the villi in the gut after a gluten free diet? If that is the problem and the solution is basically... I have no choice and somehow to adapt to a new diet.

[trents]

I think they will be with you the rest of your life. I think they are by now hard wired into your immune system "reactivity data base". I think you will just have to adapt to a new diet. It is probably fair to say, given the many variables, that no matter what measures you take, you will not be completely free of reactions but you can expect to gain significant control of them. That is just reality.

[itarachiu]

Yeah... just like gluten. Well I will find out in a few days if this was the problem. I hope it is(lol) because I'm tiered of looking for answers for why I still struggle.

Here is a list: https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

Seems quail eggs are ok. Regular eggs egg yolk, egg white.

From Google: One study evaluated celiac disease patients who were not responsive to a gluten-free diet alone. Histamine intolerance was found in more than half of the patients, and the study concluded that unmanaged histamine intolerance played an important role in non-responsive celiac disease.

[trents]

Can you provide a link to that one study you mention? It could be a valuable resource to keep on hand for other forum users. I think this is one of the many spinoffs of celiac disease.

[itarachiu]

https://www.glutenfreesociety.org/histamine-intolerance-and-gluten/

[trents]

Got it! Thanks.

[itarachiu]

I think this website owner is that guy that I seen on YT, he does videos about gluten and health related problems.

Usually I don't like these type of guys because they advertise their products but this guy is an exception. Dr Osborne.

[knitty kitty]

Mast cells release histamine.

Mast cell activation syndrome is common in Celiac Disease.

Histamine is broken down by B12, Pyridoxine B6, and Vitamin C.  Vitamin D helps regulate the immune response and make mast cells calm down.

Thiamine deficiency causes mast cells to release histamine easily.

Blueberries contain "thiaminase", a chemical that makes thiamine not work.  Thiaminase is also in sweet potatoes, SPINACH, coffee and tea, and CIGARETTES and Salicylates.

Salicylates makes you loose more Thiamine in urine.  Oxalate formation occurs in Thiamine deficiency.

Thiamine deficiency symptoms include nausea and GERD.  

Proteins are the best sources of B vitamins.  Fruits and vegetables are not good sources of B vitamins.

Canned food is high histamine.  Processed meats are high histamine.  Fresh meats are low histamine.  Fresh veggies are low histamine.  

There are eight essential B vitamins.  These "vital amines" cannot be made in our bodies.  They cannot be stored long, so we need them every day.  The Eight B vitamins need each other to work properly.  Taking just one can make the others not be able to work properly because the others are missing.  

When I was struggling with MCAS, I took my B Complex supplement, Vitamin D and Vitamin C even if I could not tolerate any foods.  My health improved.  I began to tolerate more foods.  My health has improved.  If we give our bodies these vital building blocks, our bodies can heal.  

[itarachiu]

@knitty kitty Thank you for making everything more clear.

In a few days I will know the answer, I will introduce tomorrow new foods and see how it goes. The foods are still on the low FODMAP and low histamine too.

I'm pretty confident that this is the problem for me, everything that is on that list, kind of give me issues, walnuts, spinach, buckwheat, french fries(sunflower oil), bananas, green peas, etc.

Also everything that made me lose my consciousness and have uncontrollable bowel movement is on that list too.

Also again! Every morning after I use to wake up and light a cigar, after finishing the cigar I could already feel that nausea, instant reaction. After the coffee was ready and with another 1-2 cigar, recipe for nausea. When you are addicted... doesn't matter how you feel you keep doing that... thanks to Covid it made me to quit smoking and coffee, in exactly 1 week I will be 3 months smoking free.

https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

 

[itarachiu]

Almost 48h update.

Good news and only good news this time. I'm responding to low histamine foods, I had no more nausea in the last 36h, I already tried 6 foods from the list because I was feeling hungry. In the last month I didn't eat much because I was desperate to find out what foods cause me to feel bad so I had to take them one by one and wait 2 days, I lost all my fat, I became skinny so in the last 2 days I did eat a big amount of food... and I FEEL GREAT! I already start to do research about histamine intolerance, is not an alergy in my case, it's intolerance 100%.

I think I do actually tolerate some of them in small quantities because I remember when I cut off gluten I still had high histamine foods in my diet and I was doing great for the most part, I still had nausea from time to time but it was easy to tolerate until I start to smoke again, to cook foods in sunflower seeds oil to add bananas and avocados and eggs and nightshades and walnuts and everything that is hard to digest and all the bad stuff in my diet again. As @knitty kitty mentioned about COVID, that was the plug for me, after healing from COVID I think I was just as bad when I was on my gluten diet until I discovered that I'm celiac. What was also worse is the fact that you don't eat gluten and you feel just as bad and you don't know why. Well the foods were mostly organic and despite the fact that most of them were healthy foods, for me was poison.

For the moment I will still eat most of the low FODMAP diet but I already start to put in my diet high FOODMAP foods and I'm doing great. There is a drug to block histamine called "Daosin" is recommended here in Romania, is about 30$ for 30 or 50 capsules and when I get out to a restaurant I will take one before. I don't want to take them on daily basis I have to try first maybe I can heal this thing if I go 1-2 years only with low histamine foods, I think as I said I can tolerate in moderation, small quantities some of them.

As @knitty kitty mentioned about thiamine(B1), I will add them soon because I had to help my body to regenerate the cells, I think this is important for histamine intolerance journey. I will take all of them I already bought B1, Magnesium, Zinc, and vitamin D, all of them from Solgar.

Almost forgot, I almost don't have spams anymore(I was suspecting magnesium deficiency), my hands and feets are not cold anymore(no more anemia), my heart is not skipping beats anymore, my apetite has sky rocketed, I have no fear to eat anymore, I feel no more pain in the stomach or intestine, I have more energy. And this is just after 2 days, I can't believe it that I found WHAT WAS STILL WRONG WITH ME despite the fact I have gluten free diet in the last 5 years.

Today I drink for the first time coconut milk, pretty good. I drink also 1 cup of chichory root, I use to love coffee but I will keep it away for the moment at least. Also 1 tbs of honey.

So yeah... I think this histamine intolerance was caused by not being diagnosticated for celiac for... let's say 15 years. Some people actually healed from this thing or at least you keep it under control even without treatment which is exactly what I want. I may take as I said even if I will heal it, 1 before a meal to a restaurant or familly events because... well you don't want nausea while you having a good time with your familly.

Here is the list of foods if anyone is suspecting alergy or intolerance to histamine.

https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

I will still update this post, why not... but I'm 100% confident that I found out what was wrong with me

EDIT: Fun fact, my diet before I tried low FODMAP diet was close to 80-90% high histamine foods and the result was nausea all day and fatigue and not be able to function anymore as a human. I had days that I had to skip driving my car because I couldn't even focus, I had panic attacks and just overall not feeling good, specially in the last 6 months, I avoided familly and friends important events... awful.

[itarachiu]

I can't edit the post anymore I want to add also the fact that yesterday my sleep was so deep that I even had a dream. I can't even remember when was the last time when I had a dream, that's a good sign I guess right ?

[trents]

I would think it is a good sign, especially if deeper sleep is consistent.

There is a time window for editing posts. This is to discourage spammers who test the waters with false posts.

[itarachiu]

40 minutes ago, trents said:

There is a time window for editing posts. This is to discourage spammers who test the waters with false posts.

Yes, I know. I work as computer programmer and I know about this stuffs

[Posterboy]

Itarchiu,

If you are having trouble with Histamine intoerlance aka Histadelia then taking some Niacin will help you with your Histamine issues....

Here is the research about it...

http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2002/pdf/2002-v17n01-p017.pdf

This article explains how to use Niacin aka Vitamin B3 to induce a flush.....thus helping your Histamine intoelrance...aka Histadelia etc.

http://getwellstaywellathome.com/blog/2015/06/seasonal-allergies-and-the-niacin-flush/ ght

You want the straight Nicotonic Acid.....not the flush free from of Niacin....

If I don't respond right away..... because I am doing other things more these days than the forum.....Trents can help you too!.....I think he has tried the Niacin flush himself.....if I remember correctly from another thread...

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

[itarachiu]

And another update.

I still feel great, no nausea anymore. Yesterday I eat 250g of rice and around 200g of sweet potato, I felt so hungry after 1 month of testing the low FODMAP diet however it was a little bit too much for my stomach, it caused me to feel some sort of discomfort, no nausea but I felt something, very tolerable anyway. I sleep better and a little bit longer, more energy, high apetite, I'm not afraid anymore to eat. I tried pistachios, honey, I do react a little bit to honey, 1-2 tbsp are ok but if I cross the line I feel some discomfort in the stomach for 1-2h.

Maybe... maybe... I may take in consideration to do some tests for histamine, however I don't know, all I know is the fact that I respond the the histamine low foods. I'm still mad on the medical system in my country because I suffered for 15 years of misdiagnosis for celiac, they told me that I have depression and I need treatment, they told me that I have ulcers and there is nothing wrong with the food that I eat... nobody asked me what I eat or what is my lifestyle, they told me that I have sinusitis or that I need glasses and that was wrong for the way I was feeling and all sort of BS. Anyway I found that I have celiac after I requested personally to a private clinic the endoscopy. That was the last time when I visited a doctor which was 5-6 years ago, I even stop the anual blood tests because they are useless, they were saying that all my vitamins supply are in normal range and there is nothing wrong with me. I heard from a friend that they don't even test the blood, they pretend they do and they generate false results... I don't know. According to these doctors and all the thousands of dollars that I spent on tests, there was nothing wrong with me and I couldn't leave my bed anymore because of the pain and feeling so malnutritioned. Thanks to the internet that I was able to figure out by myself that I have celiac disease just by googling the symptoms.

I stop taking Solgar B Complex vitamins because they do contain folic acid(vitamin B9) and is on the histamine list(should be avoided). I introduced Solgar B1 thiamin, I just took my first one.

@knitty kittyI tried to replace my Solgar B1 vitamins with another form of B1, you mentioned benfotiamine, I did found something online in Romania for sale but not at the local pharmacy, the seller from the pharmacy he did accepted to replace them but they couldn't find the product that I asked.

https://us.amazon.com/Swanson-Benfotiamine-Milligrams-120-Capsules/dp/B01IQD86ZS/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

This is the product that I can buy online but for the moment I will use B1 from Solgar. According to my Google translate this product from Solgar they make the b1 from hydrochloride which is not really the best.

[trents]

The trouble with vitamin level testing is it only tests the amounts circulating in the blood and not what is actually getting into the cells. Symptoms are a better barometer.

[itarachiu]

16 minutes ago, trents said:

The trouble with vitamin level testing is it only tests the amounts circulating in the blood and not what is actually getting into the cells. Symptoms are a better barometer.

I was thinking there is some sort of test for this condition, I didn't even checked.

[knitty kitty]

@itarachiu,

Can you order Thiamax where you are?

https://www.amazon.com/Objective-Nutrients-Thiamax-Thiamine-Capsules/dp/B0898T6NX3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=186Z8F43JPU9K&keywords=Thiamax&qid=1668374818&sprefix=thiamax%2Caps%2C221&sr=8-2

 

https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/thiamax/

This is the kind I use.