Fuelling exercise -corn and other gluten free grains

[knitty kitty]

13 minutes ago, Gilly M said:

Hi Knitty Kitty, thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly. I'm so grateful to you......

Last year I was up to about 300mg benfotiamine and 300mg B1Hcl.  I reduced gradually until only on 100mg b1Hcl in my B complex.  I think I reduced because my sleep was getting light and I was dumping lots(although its a bit vague now...I'm not the best at keeping logs/diaries)

I've just restarted B1Hcl today....50mg only...I'm concerned I have electrolyte issues as I'm not only having insomnia but muscle twitching, some air hunger and excess urinating at night....I'm taking magnesium threonate and malate/citrate. If I'm just increase the thiamine to 500mg too quickly, could I not exacerbate any electrolyte deficiencies thus symptoms?

I stopped the B complex as I was worried the methyl forms were adding to the anxiety. To be honest, I'm just so confused now and second guessing everything.  I feel I'm just taking my supplements without any methodology now.  I "throw in" some iron too as I have heavy menstruations and I know iron deficiency can cause insomnia and anxiety.  

I have very grainy stools daily......no diarrhoea though. I have neck tension and my whole body feels wired and tremors.  I do eat a lot of dairy to ensure enough calcium, which oxalates will deplete.  

I haven't felt this low or anxious or sleep deprived since I had Lyme disease 5-6years ago.  The sleep deprivation is the main concern right now.

Do you think I should just up the dose tomorrow to 500mg(B1Hcl)...just go for it?  And continue the magnesium? I won't don't this evening as it would add to alertness/ insomnia(mind you, I'm hardly getting any sleep anyway)

Get calcium and potassium from foods. I'm so reluctant to stop dairy due to calcium.  I take vit D 2000iu.  I will get a blood panel done this week which will include vit D and iron.

Ill take a look at the low histamine Paleo diet.

I have never had genetic testing done for Celiac disease.  By knife edge B1 levels I mean, likely low but not low enough to cause the neuro signs.... I'm only going by deductive thinking based on history, symptoms, and improvement in many areas last year.

I'm really not too sure what to do now.  Any extra advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you x

Thiamine helps balance your electrolytes.   How did you arrive at the conclusion you have electrolyte imbalance?  Were you diagnosed by a doctor?   Thiamine improves electrolyte imbalances. 

Insomnia, muscle twitching, muscle tension and tremors, and air hunger are neurological symptoms of Thiamine deficiency.   Heavy periods are a symptom of  Thiamine deficiency.  Excess urination can be found in Thiamine deficiency and histamine intolerance.  Histamine Intolerance will cause insomnia because histamine is a neurotransmitter that keeps us alert.

As long as you're getting your Vitamin D and Iron checked, you may want to ask for a Celiac panel and a check on your histamine levels.  

Yes, do look into the low histamine Paleo diet.  Alcohol, nuts, high carbohydrate foods, processed foods, fermented and cured foods like cheese and yogurt are high in histamine.

Do consider lactose intolerance and casein allergy.  Lactose intolerance and casein allergy will both raise histamine levels.  

Yes, do take 500 mg and the B Complex and magnesium tomorrow.  For the insomnia, Tryptophan, a form of Niacin, is needed to make Serotonin and melatonin.  

[Gilly M]

18 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Thiamine helps balance your electrolytes.   How did you arrive at the conclusion you have electrolyte imbalance?  Were you diagnosed by a doctor?   Thiamine improves electrolyte imbalances. 

Insomnia, muscle twitching, muscle tension and tremors, and air hunger are neurological symptoms of Thiamine deficiency.   Heavy periods are a symptom of  Thiamine deficiency.  Excess urination can be found in Thiamine deficiency and histamine intolerance.  Histamine Intolerance will cause insomnia because histamine is a neurotransmitter that keeps us alert.

As long as you're getting your Vitamin D and Iron checked, you may want to ask for a Celiac panel and a check on your histamine levels.  

Yes, do look into the low histamine Paleo diet.  Alcohol, nuts, high carbohydrate foods, processed foods, fermented and cured foods like cheese and yogurt are high in histamine.

Do consider lactose intolerance and casein allergy.  Lactose intolerance and casein allergy will both raise histamine levels.  

Yes, do take 500 mg and the B Complex and magnesium tomorrow.  For the insomnia, Tryptophan, a form of Niacin, is needed to make Serotonin and melatonin.  

Hi, I had a Drs appointment today and am getting bloods taken tomorrow.....iron panel electrolytes, vit D. So I will wait until after that before I change anything.  The Dr was very caring and concerned and wants to see me back tomorrow.  Thank you so much for this wealth of info Knitty Kitty.....I think my Dr is very open and flexible to my ideas and input.  I hope you are well and to be able to report back to you with good progress

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

Have you discussed with your doctor the possibility of Celiac Disease?  Lactose intolerance?  SIBO?  Malnutrition from malabsorption?  

Your stools may be resulting in malabsorption of nutrients because you may not be digesting and absorbing your food properly.  Especially if you have had improvement while taking thiamine and B Complex vitamins earlier.   

I went through a period where I had constant loose bowel movements and it's not fun.  

I hope the doctor can discover the cause.  I wish you all the best! 

knitty kitty

[Gilly M]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:43 PM, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

Have you discussed with your doctor the possibility of Celiac Disease?  Lactose intolerance?  SIBO?  Malnutrition from malabsorption?  

Your stools may be resulting in malabsorption of nutrients because you may not be digesting and absorbing your food properly.  Especially if you have had improvement while taking thiamine and B Complex vitamins earlier.   

I went through a period where I had constant loose bowel movements and it's not fun.  

I hope the doctor can discover the cause.  I wish you all the best! 

knitty kitty

Hi Knitty Kitty,.

The Dr thinks all my symptoms are due to anxiety and depression.....and these are causing the insomnia.  She gave me sleeping tablets for emergencies. Without them I'm very anxious falling asleep and have panic attacks.

I am.low in mood, yes. But I do feel that other things are adding to it

I think I'm reacting to histamine foods now.  I think over the Festive period my alcohol consumption and stressful time may have filled up my "histamine bucket" so now I font tolerate the high histamine foods I used to??

I currently take 2500IU VIT with K2, 135mg magnesium/malate.  I've stopped everything else as I am getting so worried about making things worse.  The B1 seems to increase dumping in my stools??? I worry this increased dumping is causing increased histamine release and increased consumption of potassium and magnesium which are needed for sleep??

When I increase magnesium, I seem to react badly, increased anxiety?? But citrate forms can cause histamine release?? Threonate was not good....  I have read if you're B1 deficient you may not tolerate Mg yet.

I've also read that you need to start low with B1 to avoid the side effects and reduce paradoxical reactions....so would starting with 500mg not be too much?

As you can tell I'm really lost with this.  I slept on/off 8hours last night (most for weeks!!)but only due to sleeping tablet. I still feel wired, shivery, tired, anxious.  Its becoming a vicious circle as I feel less able to work, see people etc which makes me more anxious/low.

Everyone keeps saying, give it time, keep busy and it will pass.  I agree, BUT I also think if I'm low in B1, have high histamine and oxalate issues, these too need to he addressed. My period thus month is 1week early! Likely stress.

I am eating low/moderate oxalate foods.

I am wary of taking my B complex as it has methylated bs and I am concerned of the methylation causing anxiety.

If I started 20mg B1 today, no B complex, 135mg Mg and 2500Vit D....would this be a start? Could this make a difference? If I  started with 500mg B1, would this not risk a paradoxical reaction? And also increase dumping and electrolyte loss.

I'm trying not to over think it all and hope that with time, it passes. But its been 6weeks now and I'm.concerned about B1.

Thank you for any feedback you can offer

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

Take the B Complex and Vitamin D every day for two weeks.   

The eight B vitamins are essential to life.  We need all eight every day.  

You need to take the B Complex.  The methylated forms are "ready to use" forms of the B vitamins.  Taking an additional sublingual  B12 supplement should take care of any over-methylation potential.

When low in all eight B vitamins, taking one B vitamin isn't going to help much.  Thiamine B 1 interacts with every other B vitamin.  If there are shortages of the other seven B vitamins, Thiamine isn't going to work either.  Magnesium isn't going to work if there's not enough Thiamine.   

Take the B Complex for two weeks.  It should have some thiamine in it.  Then add in more Thiamine, potassium, and magnesium.  This should prevent possible paradox reactions.

Do Not take Thiamine Mononitrate.  It is not absorbed well and is not utilized by the body well.   

Thiamine Hydrochloride (500-2000 mg per day).

Benfotiamine (300-1200 mg per day).

Allithiamine (TTFD) (200-800 per day).   

You can spread your doses out over the course of the day.  Taking Thiamine close to bedtime might not be conducive to sleep. 

Start with whatever dose at which you are comfortable.  I tried high dose Thiamine 500 mg of Thiamine Hydrochloride because I was so desperately ill.  The difference the high dose Thiamine made compared to the small dose in my B Complex was astounding.  My body responded in such a positive way.  I don't have the words to describe it.  The anxiety diminished.  My digestive system acted better.  My brain functioned better.  I didn't realize how badly I'd been feeling until I took the high dose Thiamine and felt so much improved.   

You can combine different forms.  I take all three forms.   I took 300 mg Thiamine Hydrochloride every three hours until four pm.  Later, I added Allithiamine and Benfotiamine and decreased the thiamine hydrochloride.  I played around with different combinations and doses to find what my body responded to.  

Deficiencies in Niacin B3, Thiamine B1, and Cobalamine B12 can cause diarrhea.  Take the B Complex.

Alcohol is inflammatory, high histamine, causes malabsorption of B vitamins and damages the lining of your intestines.  Niacin, Thiamine and Cobalamine B12 are especially low in people who drink alcohol.  Take the B Complex.

Low Vitamin D can cause menstrual irregularities and fertility problems.  Vitamin D regulates the immune system and helps lower histamine production.  Take the Vitamin D.  

Thiamine deficiency results in menstrual problems like cycle irregularities, PMSDD, PCOS, and endometriosis.  High levels of histamine are released by mast cells when they are deficient in Thiamine.  Take Thiamine.

I understand.  I used to have anxiety and panic attacks.  These were neurological changes associated with deficiencies in Thiamine and the rest of the B's. 

Falling asleep was especially awful.  I tried sleeping pills but found Pyridoxine B 6, magnesium, and Theanine worked better for me.  Theanine is in Oolong tea.  A nice cuppa Oolong before bed, with no screens, is great for drifting off.  Theanine supplements are also available over the counter.  Passion flower extract is also wonderful for calming sleep.

I do hope you feel better.  

[Gilly M]

2 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

Take the B Complex and Vitamin D every day for two weeks.   

The eight B vitamins are essential to life.  We need all eight every day.  

You need to take the B Complex.  The methylated forms are "ready to use" forms of the B vitamins.  Taking an additional sublingual  B12 supplement should take care of any over-methylation potential.

When low in all eight B vitamins, taking one B vitamin isn't going to help much.  Thiamine B 1 interacts with every other B vitamin.  If there are shortages of the other seven B vitamins, Thiamine isn't going to work either.  Magnesium isn't going to work if there's not enough Thiamine.   

Take the B Complex for two weeks.  It should have some thiamine in it.  Then add in more Thiamine, potassium, and magnesium.  This should prevent possible paradox reactions.

Do Not take Thiamine Mononitrate.  It is not absorbed well and is not utilized by the body well.   

Thiamine Hydrochloride (500-2000 mg per day).

Benfotiamine (300-1200 mg per day).

Allithiamine (TTFD) (200-800 per day).   

You can spread your doses out over the course of the day.  Taking Thiamine close to bedtime might not be conducive to sleep. 

Start with whatever dose at which you are comfortable.  I tried high dose Thiamine 500 mg of Thiamine Hydrochloride because I was so desperately ill.  The difference the high dose Thiamine made compared to the small dose in my B Complex was astounding.  My body responded in such a positive way.  I don't have the words to describe it.  The anxiety diminished.  My digestive system acted better.  My brain functioned better.  I didn't realize how badly I'd been feeling until I took the high dose Thiamine and felt so much improved.   

You can combine different forms.  I take all three forms.   I took 300 mg Thiamine Hydrochloride every three hours until four pm.  Later, I added Allithiamine and Benfotiamine and decreased the thiamine hydrochloride.  I played around with different combinations and doses to find what my body responded to.  

Deficiencies in Niacin B3, Thiamine B1, and Cobalamine B12 can cause diarrhea.  Take the B Complex.

Alcohol is inflammatory, high histamine, causes malabsorption of B vitamins and damages the lining of your intestines.  Niacin, Thiamine and Cobalamine B12 are especially low in people who drink alcohol.  Take the B Complex.

Low Vitamin D can cause menstrual irregularities and fertility problems.  Vitamin D regulates the immune system and helps lower histamine production.  Take the Vitamin D.  

Thiamine deficiency results in menstrual problems like cycle irregularities, PMSDD, PCOS, and endometriosis.  High levels of histamine are released by mast cells when they are deficient in Thiamine.  Take Thiamine.

I understand.  I used to have anxiety and panic attacks.  These were neurological changes associated with deficiencies in Thiamine and the rest of the B's. 

Falling asleep was especially awful.  I tried sleeping pills but found Pyridoxine B 6, magnesium, and Theanine worked better for me.  Theanine is in Oolong tea.  A nice cuppa Oolong before bed, with no screens, is great for drifting off.  Theanine supplements are also available over the counter.  Passion flower extract is also wonderful for calming sleep.

I do hope you feel better.  

Thank you.  I am so lost right now.  I feel in 24hour fight and flight.  I feel so low.  So anxious.  In 6weeks my life has just 180degree turned.  Nothing seems to bring me joy.  I am shivering a lot. I have nocturia.  I am dumping oxalates via stools loads. I get weird zapping/tingly/ tightness over face/neck/ head

What do you think about this B complex https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/basic-b-complex .  This has 110mg thiamine

You think 2 weeks of this before adding in magnesium or potassium or thiamine?

I'm concerned thiamine may increase dumping? And that dumping is creating many of my symptom's. What are your thoughts on this.

My Dr thinks all.my symptoms are due to anxiety and depression due two psychological things (a stressful.new year and start of 2024,....I took B complex then...and magnesium.....I think I was having histamine issues badly though so maybe the B complex just wasn't enough at that time). I am.certain more is at play...histamine/ B1/electrolytes.

On a positive note, I slept more last night on and off but would wake anxious.  

So B complex 2 weeks. Then after 2weeks add in thiamine/ potassium/ magnesium.  Magnesium malate? (Citrate I think causes histamine issues) I don't think magnesium agrees with me right now....likely due to B1 deficiency?

Thank you so much x

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

I think that B Complex is a great choice.  

The symptoms you've described are very familiar (I've experienced them, too) and are in line with Thiamine and B vitamin deficiency symptoms.  

In Thiamine deficiency, the body cannot regulate temperature well, hence the shivering.  The frequent trips to the bathroom day or night can be caused by Thiamine deficiency in the area of the brain that coordinates and regulates body functions.  The tingling is neuropathy, and can be improved with B vitamins.  

Thiamine will not increase your dumping.  Dumping is a result of being deficient in the vitamins needed to digest your food.  Sandy stools like you've described can happen when you're not digesting food sufficiently and results in not absorbing nutrients.  

I do think you would benefit more if you took extra Thiamine with the B Complex right away.  But go at a place that makes you comfortable.  The B vitamins are water soluble.  They can get flushed out easily if you have diarrhea or dumping.  Take Magnesium when you start taking the extra Thiamine.  Magnesium without sufficient thiamine may cause diarrhea. 

Benfotiamine may be the best form for you as it helps relieve inflammation in the digestive tract.  The neurotransmitters that regulate mood are made in the digestive tract.  Your mood will improve when you get your digestive tract settled down.  

Let me know how you feel with taking the B Complex.  Wishing you the best.

Interesting Reading....

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

[Gilly M]

1 hour ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

I think that B Complex is a great choice.  

The symptoms you've described are very familiar (I've experienced them, too) and are in line with Thiamine and B vitamin deficiency symptoms.  

In Thiamine deficiency, the body cannot regulate temperature well, hence the shivering.  The frequent trips to the bathroom day or night can be caused by Thiamine deficiency in the area of the brain that coordinates and regulates body functions.  The tingling is neuropathy, and can be improved with B vitamins.  

Thiamine will not increase your dumping.  Dumping is a result of being deficient in the vitamins needed to digest your food.  Sandy stools like you've described can happen when you're not digesting food sufficiently and results in not absorbing nutrients.  

I do think you would benefit more if you took extra Thiamine with the B Complex right away.  But go at a place that makes you comfortable.  The B vitamins are water soluble.  They can get flushed out easily if you have diarrhea or dumping.  Take Magnesium when you start taking the extra Thiamine.  Magnesium without sufficient thiamine may cause diarrhea. 

Benfotiamine may be the best form for you as it helps relieve inflammation in the digestive tract.  The neurotransmitters that regulate mood are made in the digestive tract.  Your mood will improve when you get your digestive tract settled down.  

Let me know how you feel with taking the B Complex.  Wishing you the best.

Interesting Reading....

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

Brilliant.  Thank you!  So the sandy stools may not be oxalate at all?!! But undigested food!!? But I only started getting them when I went low ox and added in B1??

I don't have diarrhoea....just sandy stools...quite normal otherwise.

I have taken a quarter B complex with an extra 25mg HCL.... Am I being too cautious??

Yes!  I have rest that article....soooo interesting and think that was my situation!!

[Gilly M]

PS....my vit D levels are pretty good at 95mmol/l

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

Apologies for not being able to answer sooner.

I hope you are feeling better.  

Are you keeping a food/mood/poo'd journal?  It can help link what is eaten and drunk with the outcome (sandy stools).  

I do hope you are taking the whole B Complex by now.  B Complex is water soluble.  Any you don't absorb will be easily excreted in urine.  B Complex supplements boost your ability to absorb these nutrients.  I'm glad you are adding in Thiamine HCl.  

I'm glad you found the article helpful.  

Let me know how you are doing!

[Gilly M]

29 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

Apologies for not being able to answer sooner.

I hope you are feeling better.  

Are you keeping a food/mood/poo'd journal?  It can help link what is eaten and drunk with the outcome (sandy stools).  

I do hope you are taking the whole B Complex by now.  B Complex is water soluble.  Any you don't absorb will be easily excreted in urine.  B Complex supplements boost your ability to absorb these nutrients.  I'm glad you are adding in Thiamine HCl.  

I'm glad you found the article helpful.  

Let me know how you are doing!

Hi Knitty Kitty,

I'm worried the B complex is actually adding to anxiety and keeping me up at night- this is maybe me overthinking it, but the methylated B's in the complex can cause this in some people?  I'm only taking a very small amount of B1 so not too concerned with supporting the other B's right now?????(I may be wrong in saying this), but if I increase to higher levels, then this will become a factor????

I've started out with very small amounts of thiamine HCl (25mg).  I also think that the magnesium is making me anxious ( Elliot Overton has done a video on this- he thinks it is because people are deficient in B1 and can't handle the magnesium yet)- so I'm only taking mg malate 50mg in the morning.  I also think high mg doses lower my sodium/potassium(all speculation and subjectivity- although my sodium level was only 136mmol/l in my last blood test)   Today I feel a little calmer but it comes in waves.  

Last night I took valerian to help me sleep.  I feel my case is complicated due to the histamine, oxalate, B1 AND the relationship breakup I had at the start of the year.  I will build very slowly with the B1 and maybe add in small amounts of B2, B5, B12, B6 - - maybe try the methylated complex again at that point.

I also know I get very fixated on things which often doesn't help me break the cycle....need to calm the vagus nerve!!  But I am certain B1 is a big player and it will be interesting to see how high I increase it over time.

I'll be sure to keep you posted.

Thanks loads x

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

The B Complex should not keep you up at night if you take it in the morning.  The methylated forms are forms that the body uses.  If we take forms of B vitamins that are not methylated, our bodies still have to change them to the methylated forms in order to use them.  You can change to unmethylated forms if you wish, just don't take Folic Acid (synthetic form that produces anxiety because the body has difficulty breaking down Folic Acid into the useable form methylfolate).   

You should  be concerned with supporting the B Complex vitamins.   Thiamine works with every other B vitamin.  If you take Thiamine by itself and don't have enough of the other B vitamins, this can cause anxiety. 

High dose Thiamine works much better and faster if the other B vitamins are also available.  Supplement with the B Complex and extra Thiamine and magnesium.

All of the B vitamins have beneficial effects on mood and mental health as well as physical health.  

I took all sorts of antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds and sleeping pills.  None of them worked because I was vitamin deficient.  The only things I found to resolve my anxiety, panic attacks and depression have been the B Complex vitamins and high dose Thiamine.  

Below are links to studies showing that vitamins in the B Complex help relieve anxiety and depression.  

References:

Dietary intake of B vitamins and their association with depression, anxiety, and stress symptoms: A cross-sectional, population-based survey

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33848753/

The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046018/

Thiamine and benfotiamine: Focus on their therapeutic potential

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10682628/

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8533683/

Vitamin B6: A new approach to lowering anxiety, and depression?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9577631/

High‐dose Vitamin B6 supplementation reduces anxiety and strengthens visual surround suppression

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9787829/

Higher vitamin B6 intake is associated with lower depression and anxiety risk in women but not in men: A large cross-sectional study

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31188081/

Dietary riboflavin intake in relation to psychological disorders in Iranian adults: an observational study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10060244/

Dietary niacin intake in relation to depression among adults: a population-based study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10506255/

A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of B Vitamin Supplementation on Depressive Symptoms, Anxiety, and Stress: Effects on Healthy and ‘At-Risk’ Individuals

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6770181/

Biology of Perseverative Negative Thinking: The Role of Timing and Folate Intake

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34959947/

Vitamin B12 Supplementation: Preventing Onset and Improving Prognosis of Depression

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7688056/

The Effects of Magnesium Supplementation on Subjective Anxiety and Stress—A Systematic Review

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452159/

Effect of magnesium and vitamin B6 supplementation on mental health and quality of life in stressed healthy adults: Post‐hoc analysis of a randomised controlled trial

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9292249/

The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046018/

 

[Gilly M]

10 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

The B Complex should not keep you up at night if you take it in the morning.  The methylated forms are forms that the body uses.  If we take forms of B vitamins that are not methylated, our bodies still have to change them to the methylated forms in order to use them.  You can change to unmethylated forms if you wish, just don't take Folic Acid (synthetic form that produces anxiety because the body has difficulty breaking down Folic Acid into the useable form methylfolate).   

You should  be concerned with supporting the B Complex vitamins.   Thiamine works with every other B vitamin.  If you take Thiamine by itself and don't have enough of the other B vitamins, this can cause anxiety. 

High dose Thiamine works much better and faster if the other B vitamins are also available.  Supplement with the B Complex and extra Thiamine and magnesium.

All of the B vitamins have beneficial effects on mood and mental health as well as physical health.  

I took all sorts of antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds and sleeping pills.  None of them worked because I was vitamin deficient.  The only things I found to resolve my anxiety, panic attacks and depression have been the B Complex vitamins and high dose Thiamine.  

Below are links to studies showing that vitamins in the B Complex help relieve anxiety and depression.  

References:

Dietary intake of B vitamins and their association with depression, anxiety, and stress symptoms: A cross-sectional, population-based survey

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33848753/

The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046018/

Thiamine and benfotiamine: Focus on their therapeutic potential

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10682628/

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8533683/

Vitamin B6: A new approach to lowering anxiety, and depression?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9577631/

High‐dose Vitamin B6 supplementation reduces anxiety and strengthens visual surround suppression

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9787829/

Higher vitamin B6 intake is associated with lower depression and anxiety risk in women but not in men: A large cross-sectional study

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31188081/

Dietary riboflavin intake in relation to psychological disorders in Iranian adults: an observational study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10060244/

Dietary niacin intake in relation to depression among adults: a population-based study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10506255/

A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of B Vitamin Supplementation on Depressive Symptoms, Anxiety, and Stress: Effects on Healthy and ‘At-Risk’ Individuals

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6770181/

Biology of Perseverative Negative Thinking: The Role of Timing and Folate Intake

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34959947/

Vitamin B12 Supplementation: Preventing Onset and Improving Prognosis of Depression

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7688056/

The Effects of Magnesium Supplementation on Subjective Anxiety and Stress—A Systematic Review

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452159/

Effect of magnesium and vitamin B6 supplementation on mental health and quality of life in stressed healthy adults: Post‐hoc analysis of a randomised controlled trial

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9292249/

The Role of Vitamins and Minerals in Psychiatry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3046018/

 

What magnesium would you recommend? And what dose to start with if I take 1 B complex and an extra 25,mg B1 today?  I'm nervous about doing it...but last night was awful.... so little sleep, agitation, and waking up in a panic if i did get to sleep.  I'm.blaming it on foods, histamine, dumping. 

I didn't have this anxiety or low mood in 2022 before I even knew about B vits and oxalates! But I guess I've been under more strain. Last year I got up.to 200mg benfo and 350mg Hcl....but maybe the alcohol and stress over Dec/Jan depleted stores more.

I'll start today....1B complex, 25mg HCl separate, 100-200mg Mag citra-malate, 2000IU  vit D 15mg Fe.

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

I take Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate.  (Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium no more than 300 mg a day).  

Yes, alcohol and emotional stress are things that will deplete Thiamine suddenly and quickly.  

Your symptoms, anxiety, insomnia, panic attacks, are the same things I experienced when I was thiamine deficient.  It gets worse, much worse, if not corrected promptly.  You may want to seek medical attention for Thiamine deficiency at hospital where intravenous thiamine can be administered.  Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even at high doses.

Unfortunately, my doctors were not familiar with Thiamine deficiency symptoms.  They wrote me off as hypochondriac.  

I was taking a B Complex with 100 mg of Thiamine, but no improvement.  Then I found Dr. Derrick Lonsdale's high dose Thiamine treatment on Dr. Chandler Marrs' website.  Yes, I was scared, but I was out of options, so I took 500 mg of Thiamine Hydrochloride.  I had improvement within minutes.  (Some people improve within hours or days.)  Dr. Lonsdale's favored form of Thiamine is Allithiamine TTFD, so I started taking that, and Benfotiamine as well.  I've continued to take high doses for about ten years now.  Nontoxic even in high doses.  No harm, no foul in trying it.  

P. S. You're better off to have found out now what kind of stuff your partner was made of.  Not made out of strong enough stuff for someone as strong as you.  Concentrate on you right now.  {{{Hugs}}}

P.S.  more interesting reading...all cases using high dose Thiamine....

A Patient With Thiamine Deficiency Exhibiting Muscle Edema Suggested by MRI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6297209/

High-dose thiamine improves the symptoms of fibromyalgia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669831/

A case of celiac disease with hallucinations

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5765830/

Edited February 22 by knitty kitty
Added post script

[Gilly M]

14 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

I take Magnesium Lysinate Glycinate.  (Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium no more than 300 mg a day).  

Yes, alcohol and emotional stress are things that will deplete Thiamine suddenly and quickly.  

Your symptoms, anxiety, insomnia, panic attacks, are the same things I experienced when I was thiamine deficient.  It gets worse, much worse, if not corrected promptly.  You may want to seek medical attention for Thiamine deficiency at hospital where intravenous thiamine can be administered.  Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even at high doses.

Unfortunately, my doctors were not familiar with Thiamine deficiency symptoms.  They wrote me off as hypochondriac.  

I was taking a B Complex with 100 mg of Thiamine, but no improvement.  Then I found Dr. Derrick Lonsdale's high dose Thiamine treatment on Dr. Chandler Marrs' website.  Yes, I was scared, but I was out of options, so I took 500 mg of Thiamine Hydrochloride.  I had improvement within minutes.  (Some people improve within hours or days.)  Dr. Lonsdale's favored form of Thiamine is Allithiamine TTFD, so I started taking that, and Benfotiamine as well.  I've continued to take high doses for about ten years now.  Nontoxic even in high doses.  No harm, no foul in trying it.  

P. S. You're better off to have found out now what kind of stuff your partner was made of.  Not made out of strong enough stuff for someone as strong as you.  Concentrate on you right now.  {{{Hugs}}}

P.S.  more interesting reading...all cases using high dose Thiamine....

A Patient With Thiamine Deficiency Exhibiting Muscle Edema Suggested by MRI

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6297209/

High-dose thiamine improves the symptoms of fibromyalgia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669831/

A case of celiac disease with hallucinations

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5765830/

Hi

...thank you so much for all.this.

One thing holding me back....dumping....Trying Low Oxalate forum members speak a lot about increased dumping and then histamine issues and then.more anxiety and insomnia ...after increasing B1.

If I didn't have signs of dumping I'd go for it...but this makes me super cautious.

I know you don't think the grainy stools are dumping, but I can't explain them otherwise. And rashes.  

What to do

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

What does your doctor say about the dumping?  What does your doctor recommend doing about the dumping? 

Do you have kidney stones? High oxalates in urine? 

Deficiencies in Thiamine B1, Pyridoxine B6 and Riboflavin B2 are connected to oxalate formation.

References:

The association of dietary intake of riboflavin and thiamine with kidney stone: a cross-sectional survey of NHANES 2007–2018

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10214353/

Absorption of glyoxylate and oxalate in thiamine and pyridoxine deficient rat intestine

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3947375/

Thiamine deficiency and oxalosis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC475395/

Oxalate metabolism in thiamine-deficient rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3426152/

Edited February 23 by knitty kitty
Add links

[Gilly M]

38 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@Gilly M,

What does your doctor say about the dumping?  What does your doctor recommend doing about the dumping? 

Do you have kidney stones? High oxalates in urine? 

Deficiencies in Thiamine B1, Pyridoxine B6 and Riboflavin B2 are connected to oxalate formation.

References:

The association of dietary intake of riboflavin and thiamine with kidney stone: a cross-sectional survey of NHANES 2007–2018

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10214353/

Absorption of glyoxylate and oxalate in thiamine and pyridoxine deficient rat intestine

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3947375/

Thiamine deficiency and oxalosis

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC475395/

Oxalate metabolism in thiamine-deficient rats

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3426152/

Hi,thanks for prompt reply.  My Dr doesn't comment on the dumping.  I don't seem to excrete via urine....its via skin and mostly stool.  I seem to dump more when I increase b1, exercise, go too low oxalate.  I get all my info via TLO Facebook site.

But maybe I just need to go for it...I'm.getting such weird CNS symptoms....hard to explain....like electricity. Drs, family, therapists ttll me I'm.just fixating on it and if I refocus it will.pass....depression and anxiety take time to pass.  I do question self as I do fixate on things. But with my symptoms and history, b1 deficiency fits.

I was up to 500+ mg b1 last year.  It's night here so I'll wait till morning.

300mg b1 HCl then another 200mg few hours later. Take 0.5 x b complex(which has 50 mg b1 HCl...so include that in my b1 total. And 250-300mg Mg citramalate(I'm not sure if I react to the glycinate ie. excitotoxic)

If it increases histamine via increases dumping then I will roll with it I guess.  I already seem to be having histamine reactions....which from one of your previous papers seems to be the case without enough b1

I'm Aldo going to stop fixating about getting enough calcium from dairy. And low calcium not letting me sleep!! I seemed to tolerate dairy last year, but I think my threshold had been reached this year.  No dairy or grains for a while.

Im holding onto this as a thread of hope but admit I'm.nervous about it due to lack of support in my immediate family and medical team.  I will remind myself it'd not toxic and if I support it with magnesium and b complex then I'm covering self. I'll.have to see what happens regarding dumping.

OK....I'll keep you posted!! 

[Gilly M]

9 minutes ago, Gilly M said:

Hi,thanks for prompt reply.  My Dr doesn't comment on the dumping.  I don't seem to excrete via urine....its via skin and mostly stool.  I seem to dump more when I increase b1, exercise, go too low oxalate.  I get all my info via TLO Facebook site.

But maybe I just need to go for it...I'm.getting such weird CNS symptoms....hard to explain....like electricity. Drs, family, therapists ttll me I'm.just fixating on it and if I refocus it will.pass....depression and anxiety take time to pass.  I do question self as I do fixate on things. But with my symptoms and history, b1 deficiency fits.

I was up to 500+ mg b1 last year.  It's night here so I'll wait till morning.

300mg b1 HCl then another 200mg few hours later. Take 0.5 x b complex(which has 50 mg b1 HCl...so include that in my b1 total. And 250-300mg Mg citramalate(I'm not sure if I react to the glycinate ie. excitotoxic)

If it increases histamine via increases dumping then I will roll with it I guess.  I already seem to be having histamine reactions....which from one of your previous papers seems to be the case without enough b1

I'm Aldo going to stop fixating about getting enough calcium from dairy. And low calcium not letting me sleep!! I seemed to tolerate dairy last year, but I think my threshold had been reached this year.  No dairy or grains for a while.

Im holding onto this as a thread of hope but admit I'm.nervous about it due to lack of support in my immediate family and medical team.  I will remind myself it'd not toxic and if I support it with magnesium and b complex then I'm covering self. I'll.have to see what happens regarding dumping.

OK....I'll keep you posted!! 

Potassium supplementation too....or just include fruit /veg /juice/meat?

[knitty kitty]

@Gilly M,

I knew someone who would have oxalate dumping in stools, UTIs,  then ended up in hospital for painful kidney stones.  It's a serious medical condition that following a low oxalate diet can help.  

However, some diets that are medically necessary for some people become health fads. Some health fad diets give a bad name to legitimate medically necessary diets and the associated disease, like the gluten free diet and Celiac Disease, for example.  

High oxalate levels are tested in blood and urine samples.  Surely, your doctor would have checked.

What made you decide that high oxalates were your problem? 

Are you consuming dairy?  Are you consuming coconut water?  Do you consume lots of leafy greens? Sandy stools can occur with these and with alcohol consumption.

Look into a low histamine Paleo diet.  Eat dates for potassium.  

Yes, Thiamine and the B vitamins will help lower histamine levels.  

I didn't get any support from my family or doctors.  They were telling me it was mental, but it wasn't.  It was nutritional deficiencies.  Easily corrected, but unrecognized by my doctors who were trained to prescribe pharmaceuticals.  

Yes, do be brave. 

Keep me posted!

[knitty kitty]

How's it going, @Gilly M? 

 

[Gilly M]

9 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

How's it going, @Gilly M? 

 

I took 450mg.  260mg Mg.  0.5 B complex.  Potassium.foods.  There were times in day I definitely felt calmer.  But then times everything came flooding back.....muscle tremors, tingly lips, burning feet, nausea, head pressure, tingly hands and feet, anxiety, shivering.  I have slept 5 hours (taking herbs) and women with all these symptoms and mind racing.  Bur exhausted I'm.concerned.  Paradoxical reaction?? I want to get a hospital appointment so that I can get electrolyte and thiamine (transketolase) assessed.  Not sure what to do.  

Just now, Gilly M said:

I took 450mg.  260mg Mg.  0.5 B complex.  Potassium.foods.  There were times in day I definitely felt calmer.  But then times everything came flooding back.....muscle tremors, tingly lips, burning feet, nausea, head pressure, tingly hands and feet, anxiety, shivering.  I have slept 5 hours (taking herbs) and woke with all these symptoms and mind racing.  But exhausted.... I'm.concerned.  Paradoxical reaction?? I want to get a hospital appointment so that I can get electrolyte and thiamine (transketolase) assessed.  Not sure what to do.  Feel v down but anxious.

 

[knitty kitty]

Hi, @Gilly M,

When I started supplementing after being deficient, there were definitely some strangeness going on as my body started working properly with an increased amount of vitamins available.  No, not a paradoxical reaction.  Simply the body starting to work properly.  How long after taking the thiamine and b complex did symptoms start?

Which herbal supplements did you take?  Are you having an allergic reaction to the herbs?  

But, if you are so shaken, do seek medical attention.  Stop taking all supplements including the herbal ones.  Blood tests for vitamin levels are not accurate.  The Erythrocyte Transketolase test will be invalid as well if you keep taking the thiamine.  Ask for a Banana bag and iv thiamine.  Explain your drinking and subsequent health decline.  Perhaps the doctor will recognize Thiamine deficiency, although most don't recognize deficiency symptoms.  

[CatherineWang]

I can relate to your story sm. Like you, I've had my fair share of ups and downs trying to figure out what works best for my body. When I started cutting out gluten, I found that adding quinoa and corn into my diet helped maintain my energy levels during workouts. They're great sources of carbs and nutrients. As for dairy, it was a bit trickier for me, but I discovered alternatives like almond or oat milk that worked well. Keep experimenting, listen to your body, and contact a nutritionist for personalized advice.

[Gilly M]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:48 PM, knitty kitty said:

Hi, @Gilly M,

When I started supplementing after being deficient, there were definitely some strangeness going on as my body started working properly with an increased amount of vitamins available.  No, not a paradoxical reaction.  Simply the body starting to work properly.  How long after taking the thiamine and b complex did symptoms start?

Which herbal supplements did you take?  Are you having an allergic reaction to the herbs?  

But, if you are so shaken, do seek medical attention.  Stop taking all supplements including the herbal ones.  Blood tests for vitamin levels are not accurate.  The Erythrocyte Transketolase test will be invalid as well if you keep taking the thiamine.  Ask for a Banana bag and iv thiamine.  Explain your drinking and subsequent health decline.  Perhaps the doctor will recognize Thiamine deficiency, although most don't recognize deficiency symptoms.  

Hi...symptoms came on on the night....I took the supplements that morning.  I have read that b1 can be a histamine liberator in sensitive individuals.  I haven't taken anymore yet.

[Gilly M]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:48 PM, knitty kitty said:

Hi, @Gilly M,

When I started supplementing after being deficient, there were definitely some strangeness going on as my body started working properly with an increased amount of vitamins available.  No, not a paradoxical reaction.  Simply the body starting to work properly.  How long after taking the thiamine and b complex did symptoms start?

Which herbal supplements did you take?  Are you having an allergic reaction to the herbs?  

But, if you are so shaken, do seek medical attention.  Stop taking all supplements including the herbal ones.  Blood tests for vitamin levels are not accurate.  The Erythrocyte Transketolase test will be invalid as well if you keep taking the thiamine.  Ask for a Banana bag and iv thiamine.  Explain your drinking and subsequent health decline.  Perhaps the doctor will recognize Thiamine deficiency, although most don't recognize deficiency symptoms.  

Hi....I'm struggling to get the Drs onboard with thus.  I went to the hospital but they wont entertain it either.  I am now flushing face, breathing.issues, burning arms, nauseous.  They say its all anxiety and that anxiety can be extreme.  I'm questioning myself now!! But surely such extreme symptoms are not just anxiety.  I have severe headaches and weird zaps.

I'm waiting for Dr to call.  Its evening here....if they don't do anything tonight I'm tempted to take 500mg myself ....but that will mean sleepless night??