Dole Bananas

[StrongerThanCeliac]

Hi,

I know some celiacs react to bananas. I’m not one of those people, I’ve eaten Chiquita brand bananas, some others as well and been fine. 
 

I was already not feeling great but I ate a dole banana and I seemed to feel even worse later on. I don’t remember eating a dole brand banana when I was fully healthy. 
 

Is there anyway that dole brand bananas could contain gluten somehow?

 

thank you. 

[knitty kitty]

Some people develop a reaction to bananas if they develop a reaction to latex.  

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/latex-allergy

And...

The latex-fruit syndrome

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12440950/

[StrongerThanCeliac]

36 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

Some people develop a reaction to bananas if they develop a reaction to latex.  

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/latex-allergy

And...

The latex-fruit syndrome

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12440950/

Right, but I am not one of those people. Since I’m already sick. Just making sure the dole bananas didn’t just make it work. 
 

there’s no way those could get cross contamination right? Dole bananas from the produce section. 
 

 

[knitty kitty]

Very unlikely bananas contained gluten. 

[StrongerThanCeliac]

12 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Very unlikely bananas contained gluten. 

Thank you - I was thinking no way natural fresh fruit would. 

[selectivefocus]

So I react to bananas as well. I don't think it's latex related. I have read a couple things about how the proteins in ripe bananas are similar to gluten proteins. Do with that what you will...You're not crazy, though. Stop eating the bananas.

I live in a sterile gluten-free home...and I react to banana bread, ripe bananas in smoothies, etc. I don't react to avocado. 

[newtonfree]

I just started reacting to bananas - strongly - this past week. Was eating 1-2 a day for months on end before that.

For me, the symptoms were scratchy throat, painfully swollen tastebuds, postnasal drip, acid reflux, and upset stomach.

Did several tests of withdrawing and reintroducing them while changing nothing else, and it's clearly the bananas. Some of those symptoms (the reflux and upset stomach) are very similar to my gluten symptoms.

I think I found the connection. Oral allergy syndrome, also called pollen allergy syndrome. Bananas have a protein that is quite similar to ragweed pollen, and I have a ragweed allergy.

Perhaps noteworthy is the fact that ragweed season just started where I live, exactly at the time the bananas started causing me trouble.

I'm hoping that this is just related to my immune system being on alert for ragweed already with so much of it in the air right now, and that it'll settle back down when I'm no longer being exposed to ragweed, but apparently for some people it's a year-round thing.

I'm very bummed about it. I love bananas and plantains (which did it even worse than bananas - I ate a plain plantain and my mouth felt like it was burning afterward, kind of like when you over-pepper food).

[Russ H]

9 hours ago, newtonfree said:

I just started reacting to bananas - strongly - this past week. Was eating 1-2 a day for months on end before that.

For me, the symptoms were scratchy throat, painfully swollen tastebuds, postnasal drip, acid reflux, and upset stomach.

Did several tests of withdrawing and reintroducing them while changing nothing else, and it's clearly the bananas. Some of those symptoms (the reflux and upset stomach) are very similar to my gluten symptoms.

I think I found the connection. Oral allergy syndrome, also called pollen allergy syndrome. Bananas have a protein that is quite similar to ragweed pollen, and I have a ragweed allergy.

Perhaps noteworthy is the fact that ragweed season just started where I live, exactly at the time the bananas started causing me trouble.

I'm hoping that this is just related to my immune system being on alert for ragweed already with so much of it in the air right now, and that it'll settle back down when I'm no longer being exposed to ragweed, but apparently for some people it's a year-round thing.

I'm very bummed about it. I love bananas and plantains (which did it even worse than bananas - I ate a plain plantain and my mouth felt like it was burning afterward, kind of like when you over-pepper food).

Interesting. I found an article from Stanford Medicine that describes OAS well. Apparently most sufferers don't react to cooked fruit as it denatures the proteins.

https://stanfordhealthcare.org/content/dam/SHC/clinics/menlo-medical-clinic/docs/Allergy/Oral Allergy Syndrome.pdf

[selectivefocus]

10 hours ago, newtonfree said:

I just started reacting to bananas - strongly - this past week. Was eating 1-2 a day for months on end before that.

For me, the symptoms were scratchy throat, painfully swollen tastebuds, postnasal drip, acid reflux, and upset stomach.

Did several tests of withdrawing and reintroducing them while changing nothing else, and it's clearly the bananas. Some of those symptoms (the reflux and upset stomach) are very similar to my gluten symptoms.

I think I found the connection. Oral allergy syndrome, also called pollen allergy syndrome. Bananas have a protein that is quite similar to ragweed pollen, and I have a ragweed allergy.

Perhaps noteworthy is the fact that ragweed season just started where I live, exactly at the time the bananas started causing me trouble.

I'm hoping that this is just related to my immune system being on alert for ragweed already with so much of it in the air right now, and that it'll settle back down when I'm no longer being exposed to ragweed, but apparently for some people it's a year-round thing.

I'm very bummed about it. I love bananas and plantains (which did it even worse than bananas - I ate a plain plantain and my mouth felt like it was burning afterward, kind of like when you over-pepper food).

It may be oral allergy syndrome. I take benadryl every single day because I have mast cell issues. My Celiac 14 year old daughter has oral allergy syndrome and reacts to almost all raw fruits and veggies. She also has an anaphylactic almond/cashew allergy. You have to be careful with OAS. Her symptoms are primary which means her tongue gets itchy and throat starts closing up like anaphylaxis. 

My reaction to bananas is very similar to ingesting gluten--I get DH bumps. Which sucks, because I love bananas and I'm pregnant. I'd be eating 3 a day if I could.

[newtonfree]

7 hours ago, selectivefocus said:

It may be oral allergy syndrome. I take benadryl every single day because I have mast cell issues. My Celiac 14 year old daughter has oral allergy syndrome and reacts to almost all raw fruits and veggies. She also has an anaphylactic almond/cashew allergy. You have to be careful with OAS. Her symptoms are primary which means her tongue gets itchy and throat starts closing up like anaphylaxis. 

My reaction to bananas is very similar to ingesting gluten--I get DH bumps. Which sucks, because I love bananas and I'm pregnant. I'd be eating 3 a day if I could.

Flippin' heck. The tongue itching/burning and throat symptoms are very similar to what I get, and I also had a mini flare of my DH recently, around the same time as the OAS type symptoms. I basically pared my diet down to a low FODMAP AIP diet recently in order to try to settle everything down, as I'm recently diagnosed and haven't been gluten-free terribly long (cut out bulk wheat 6 months ago which helped a lot, but only went full gluten-free upon my diagnosis a few weeks ago). But bananas are big in AIP and I love them (and plantains) so I upped my intake, and the oral symptoms got really bad along with the DH.

I've been taking daily antihistamines lately regardless, because between these oral symptoms and the general ragweed pollen allergy, it seemed like a good idea.

Oh, and of course, I've cut out the bananas and plantains. With a tear in my eye.

[newtonfree]

8 hours ago, Russ H said:

Interesting. I found an article from Stanford Medicine that describes OAS well. Apparently most sufferers don't react to cooked fruit as it denatures the proteins.

https://stanfordhealthcare.org/content/dam/SHC/clinics/menlo-medical-clinic/docs/Allergy/Oral Allergy Syndrome.pdf

Interesting, the bananas were always raw but the plantains were cooked and still produced exactly the same symptoms despite my intense wishes that they wouldn't.

Maybe it's not OAS, then. The symptoms seemed consistent with it, but the cooked plantains were exactly as bad as the fresh bananas.

[selectivefocus]

23 minutes ago, newtonfree said:

Flippin' heck. The tongue itching/burning and throat symptoms are very similar to what I get, and I also had a mini flare of my DH recently, around the same time as the OAS type symptoms. I basically pared my diet down to a low FODMAP AIP diet recently in order to try to settle everything down, as I'm recently diagnosed and haven't been gluten-free terribly long (cut out bulk wheat 6 months ago which helped a lot, but only went full gluten-free upon my diagnosis a few weeks ago). But bananas are big in AIP and I love them (and plantains) so I upped my intake, and the oral symptoms got really bad along with the DH.

I've been taking daily antihistamines lately regardless, because between these oral symptoms and the general ragweed pollen allergy, it seemed like a good idea.

Oh, and of course, I've cut out the bananas and plantains. With a tear in my eye.

So, with OAS, things have to be super cooked. I only know with my kid that when we make fajitas with peppers and onions, she can eat them as long as they are really cooked down, whereas she reacts to raw pepper. 

The banana thing may not be OAS. I really think there is a protein thing going on. Everyone is different with their intolerances. You are still fresh off the gluten boat so your body is still healing. I always say that undiagnosed Celiac is a massive hurricane. Once you eliminate, you have to clean up and rebuild and your body won't be the same as before. I've been gluten-free strictly for 3 years, and I can finally tolerate certain things again. Other things I'll never be able to enjoy again without getting sick. You may find further in your healing journey you can enjoy bananas again. Also be sure that all of your personal care products are gluten-free and you're not getting cross contaminated. No shared appliances etc.

[newtonfree]

All solid advice. I do generally treat everything I have to eliminate right now as "eliminated...for now" with the hope that, as I heal, they may return (because I know for certain that at least some of them should return, in some form and/or quantity).

But you're right that it's like a hurricane, and I'm in the cleanup and rebuilding process.

My wife has gone full gluten-free with me and we have eliminated all identifiable possible sources of CC from the house to make sure that I can heal. I'm starting off super narrow with my diet, sticking with certified gluten-free whole food ingredients and cooking everything at home, slowly testing out and broadening my diet so that I can be sure what it is I'm reacting to if I do have a mini-flare.

[selectivefocus]

1 hour ago, newtonfree said:

All solid advice. I do generally treat everything I have to eliminate right now as "eliminated...for now" with the hope that, as I heal, they may return (because I know for certain that at least some of them should return, in some form and/or quantity).

But you're right that it's like a hurricane, and I'm in the cleanup and rebuilding process.

My wife has gone full gluten-free with me and we have eliminated all identifiable possible sources of CC from the house to make sure that I can heal. I'm starting off super narrow with my diet, sticking with certified gluten-free whole food ingredients and cooking everything at home, slowly testing out and broadening my diet so that I can be sure what it is I'm reacting to if I do have a mini-flare.

I love hearing about supportive spouses!!! Good luck to you on your journey. 😊

[Ani Jimenez]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:25 PM, StrongerThanCeliac said:

Hi,

I know some celiacs react to bananas. I’m not one of those people, I’ve eaten Chiquita brand bananas, some others as well and been fine. 
 

I was already not feeling great but I ate a dole banana and I seemed to feel even worse later on. I don’t remember eating a dole brand banana when I was fully healthy. 
 

 

 

thank you. 

I was just recently diagnosed with Celiacs after spending 14 days in the hospital on 2 separate occasions.   I got very sick after eating bananas and I googled:   Is there any way that bananas could contain gluten? Response:  Bananas have lectin which is similar to gluten and in some celiacs it causes the same reaction as gluten. I cannot eat bananas, lesson learned.  Now I goggle just about everything before I eat it.

[trents]

2 hours ago, Ani Jimenez said:

I was just recently diagnosed with Celiacs after spending 14 days in the hospital on 2 separate occasions.   I got very sick after eating bananas and I googled:   Is there any way that bananas could contain gluten? Response:  Bananas have lectin which is similar to gluten and in some celiacs it causes the same reaction as gluten. I cannot eat bananas, lesson learned.  Now I goggle just about everything before I eat it.

Yes, lechtin can make some ill but so can fruits high in histamines like bananas. You might want to look up histamine intolerance/SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth) which are common in the celiac population.

Edited September 6, 2023 by trents

[newtonfree]

1 hour ago, Ani Jimenez said:

I was just recently diagnosed with Celiacs after spending 14 days in the hospital on 2 separate occasions.   I got very sick after eating bananas and I googled:   Is there any way that bananas could contain gluten? Response:  Bananas have lectin which is similar to gluten and in some celiacs it causes the same reaction as gluten. I cannot eat bananas, lesson learned.  Now I goggle just about everything before I eat it.

Be wary of the "a little information is a dangerous thing" phenomenon.

As has been pointed out, bananas are I) high histamine, II) capable of causing direct food allergy, and III) capable of cross-reacting in oral allergy syndrome. Trusting a random Google hit that mentions lectins as "the answer" could blind you to the alternative answers that may be true.

Also, it's important to recognize that lectins are not "like gluten" - they are a massive and diverse family of proteins which happen to include gluten, but also include proteins found in essentially every plant food.

Banana lectins are not necessarily a bad or dangerous thing. This article reviews a bunch of specific banana lectins that have been identified as having all sorts of different properties, including one that is sort of shockingly effective at preventing HIV from entering cells.

Other plants have lectins that appear to have potent anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties. There's a chickpea lectin that showed remarkable action against breast cancer, and we know from epidemiological studies that vegetarian diets high in "high lectin" foods are associated with reduced rates of multiple types of cancer. Are they active parts of that? Are they unrelated bystanders? Are they bad for you, but outweighed by the good things in those foods? Those are conclusions we can't jump to without data.

I've been reading a lot about lectins since my diagnosis and am giving the AIP diet a shot, which reduces or eliminates them at first, but I'm not jumping to conclusions about them, either.

For example, when you Google many foods and ask if they contain lectins, you'll get answers based on their raw state. And yet a recent study showed that common cooking methods (boiling rice for 15 minutes, boiling beans after soaking them overnight, etc) fully denatured and inactivated the lectins in nearly all the foods they examined. A couple of notable exceptions were tomatoes and chickpeas. But most of the foods you'll see being described as "high in lectins" online might not, in fact, contain any active lectins at all if you cook them thoroughly. Many people eat flash-cooked canned beans rather than buying dry ones, soaking them, and then boiling them, but that's a preparation issue, not an issue with the food itself.

So all I'm saying is that you need to resist jumping to conclusions. In this very thread, I wondered about oral allergy syndrome and my reaction to bananas, but it was then pointed out to me that my reaction to boiled plantain didn't sound like OAS, since the relevant proteins, like the lectins in the study linked above, generally break down with thorough cooking. So I'm taking note of my reaction and will continue to put it into context with other things I notice as I challenge different foods and slowly heal from a lifetime of assaulting my gut with gluten.

[selectivefocus]

23 minutes ago, newtonfree said:

Be wary of the "a little information is a dangerous thing" phenomenon.

As has been pointed out, bananas are I) high histamine, II) capable of causing direct food allergy, and III) capable of cross-reacting in oral allergy syndrome. Trusting a random Google hit that mentions lectins as "the answer" could blind you to the alternative answers that may be true.

Also, it's important to recognize that lectins are not "like gluten" - they are a massive and diverse family of proteins which happen to include gluten, but also include proteins found in essentially every plant food.

Banana lectins are not necessarily a bad or dangerous thing. This article reviews a bunch of specific banana lectins that have been identified as having all sorts of different properties, including one that is sort of shockingly effective at preventing HIV from entering cells.

Other plants have lectins that appear to have potent anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer properties. There's a chickpea lectin that showed remarkable action against breast cancer, and we know from epidemiological studies that vegetarian diets high in "high lectin" foods are associated with reduced rates of multiple types of cancer. Are they active parts of that? Are they unrelated bystanders? Are they bad for you, but outweighed by the good things in those foods? Those are conclusions we can't jump to without data.

I've been reading a lot about lectins since my diagnosis and am giving the AIP diet a shot, which reduces or eliminates them at first, but I'm not jumping to conclusions about them, either.

For example, when you Google many foods and ask if they contain lectins, you'll get answers based on their raw state. And yet a recent study showed that common cooking methods (boiling rice for 15 minutes, boiling beans after soaking them overnight, etc) fully denatured and inactivated the lectins in nearly all the foods they examined. A couple of notable exceptions were tomatoes and chickpeas. But most of the foods you'll see being described as "high in lectins" online might not, in fact, contain any active lectins at all if you cook them thoroughly. Many people eat flash-cooked canned beans rather than buying dry ones, soaking them, and then boiling them, but that's a preparation issue, not an issue with the food itself.

So all I'm saying is that you need to resist jumping to conclusions. In this very thread, I wondered about oral allergy syndrome and my reaction to bananas, but it was then pointed out to me that my reaction to boiled plantain didn't sound like OAS, since the relevant proteins, like the lectins in the study linked above, generally break down with thorough cooking. So I'm taking note of my reaction and will continue to put it into context with other things I notice as I challenge different foods and slowly heal from a lifetime of assaulting my gut with gluten.

Celiac disease is in no way a one size fits all autoimmune disease and not thinking outside the box when it comes to food problems will be detrimental in the long run. For me, my banana symptoms cause DH-like bumps, which makes me think that it's a lectin/gluten protein confusion. Symptoms and context matters in ALL situations. Basically, tl:dr, I agree with you. 

[patty-maguire]

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and it seems this business of cross-reactivity is one of those things.  This article from Gluten Free Watchdog may help to clear this up.

"Bottom line: At this time there is no scientific basis for eliminating non gluten-containing foods from the gluten-free diet due to supposed cross-reactivity with gliadin."

Itching, hives, scratchy throat, congestion, post-nasal drips are allergy symptoms, not gluten.  Do take it seriously though.  Allergic reactions tend to get more sever over time and could end up in anaphylaxis. 

[trents]

28 minutes ago, patty-maguire said:

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and it seems this business of cross-reactivity is one of those things.  This article from Gluten Free Watchdog may help to clear this up.

"Bottom line: At this time there is no scientific basis for eliminating non gluten-containing foods from the gluten-free diet due to supposed cross-reactivity with gliadin."

Itching, hives, scratchy throat, congestion, post-nasal drips are allergy symptoms, not gluten.  Do take it seriously though.  Allergic reactions tend to get more sever over time and could end up in anaphylaxis. 

This is a controversial issue and in part it depends on how you define "cross reaction". We know, for instance, that the protein, casein, in dairy can blunt small bowel villi in some people just as gluten does. 

[trents]

On 8/30/2023 at 2:25 PM, StrongerThanCeliac said:

Hi,

I know some celiacs react to bananas. I’m not one of those people, I’ve eaten Chiquita brand bananas, some others as well and been fine. 
 

I was already not feeling great but I ate a dole banana and I seemed to feel even worse later on. I don’t remember eating a dole brand banana when I was fully healthy. 
 

Is there anyway that dole brand bananas could contain gluten somehow?

 

thank you. 

Dole's bananas are no different than any other brand. I suspect your reaction has more to do with how ripe the banana is and the level of histamines in your body at the time of consumption. You really should look into MCAS and histamine intolerance.

[newtonfree]

12 minutes ago, patty-maguire said:

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet and it seems this business of cross-reactivity is one of those things.  This article from Gluten Free Watchdog may help to clear this up.

"Bottom line: At this time there is no scientific basis for eliminating non gluten-containing foods from the gluten-free diet due to supposed cross-reactivity with gliadin."

Itching, hives, scratchy throat, congestion, post-nasal drips are allergy symptoms, not gluten.  Do take it seriously though.  Allergic reactions tend to get more sever over time and could end up in anaphylaxis. 

As a doctor, I agree with most of what you say here. In the case of my own symptoms, I've been thinking along the lines of OAS and true food allergies, since my symptoms are of the classic allergic constellation.

But the one thing I disagree with in this post is the statement, "At this time, there is no scientific basis for eliminating non-gluten foods due to supposed cross-reactivity with gliadin."

We know from multiple studies that somewhere between 10-20% of celiacs do in fact cross-react with gluten-free oats.

The scientist in me must consider, given the fact that one non-wheat food has been demonstrated to cross-react, that it's entirely within the realm of possibility for others to do so as well.

What we need is more, and better, research to guide us.

I found it interesting that casein cross-reacted as or more strongly than oats in that particular study. From personal anecdotal experience, during my elimination diet this past year, introducing even a small portion of lactose-free dairy for a single day caused a flare of my DH, which is very much a celiac symptom and not an allergic one. None of my oral/sinus/generalized allergy symptoms - just an increase in my number of DH lesions, and an increase in the redness, pain and itching of the ones I had already. I've done that challenge three times, months apart, and on days when I hadn't challenged any new foods in a week or more.

I agree that that decade-old study itself is not only in vitro (which can never be assumed to be directly applicable to human biology), but used nonideal methods as well. But as a DHer, I'm on the sensitive side of celiacs, and find dairy (or at least cow dairy, I haven't challenged goat or others yet) to behave exactly like oats, which behave like gluten in that they all provoke immediate and obvious DH flares. My diet is currently restricted and monotonous, and involves no wildcards like restaurant food, because I've been taking a scientific approach to it and introducing only one variable at a time into the equation.

That's why I actually ended up eliminating wheat six months before my celiac diagnosis; I was working methodically through foods and had identified that it was causing both GI and dermatological symptoms.

The fact that I ended up identifying lactose-free dairy and oats as similar-intensity trigger foods is something I can't dismiss given the significant quantity of evidence for oat cross-reactivity. Perhaps I'm "lucky" as a DHer in that I have a specific, non-GI symptom that helps differentiate food allergy and food intolerance symptoms from celiac triggers.

Bananas, strawberries, and flaxseed all cause allergic type symptoms in me, which includes diarrhea, but I have no fear that they're gluten cross-reactions because my DH never flares with any of them, even if my other symptoms are severe. But one tiny portion of gluten-free oats or lactose free cheese and my DH flares something fierce.

Just wanted to put that out there, because being a good scientist isn't just about following what we have evidence for. It's about remaining open-minded to the possibility that there are things we know nothing about, or have gotten backwards. We (as in doctors) used to stick NG tunes down people's throats and lavage their stomachs with milk as a treatment for ulcers, and laughed at the guy who proposed that they were bacterial infections. Then he infected himself with H. pylori and gave himself an ulcer, and we figured out that putting milk into stomachs triggers the release of more acid, not less, which actively worsens ulcers.

I never want to be the kind of doctor who laughs at someone who's figured something out, just because there "isn't enough evidence yet." Figuring things out based on intuition, first principles, anecdotal evidence and clinical pattern observation is exactly how we inspire studies in the first place, which can then confirm or refute our hypotheses.

My current hypothesis is that cow's dairy might indeed share cross-reactivity with gliadin, based on my anecdotal experience and the weak evidence currently available. Would I tell people, as their doctor, to cut out all dairy after a celiac diagnosis? No, because I don't practice medicine based on hunches and weak evidence. But what I would suggest to them is to do what I did, and pare things down to a relatively narrow diet of nutrient-dense whole foods so that they can introduce things one at a time and thus feel confident in everything they've "cleared" as safe, in order to end up with as broad and varied a diet as possible. And if they figure out that even lactose-free dairy doesn't work for them, then the underlying mechanism isn't what's important. The fact that they've identified a food that shouldn't eat is the key.

But I'd still love to see more and better follow-ups to that study.

[RMJ]

1 hour ago, newtonfree said:

We know from multiple studies that somewhere between 10-20% of celiacs do in fact cross-react with gluten-free oats.

The scientist in me must consider, given the fact that one non-wheat food has been demonstrated to cross-react, that it's entirely within the realm of possibility for others to do so as well.

As a fellow scientist, I like your approach.

There is a good genetic/chemistry reason why some celiacs react to oats.  Oats are in the same sub-family as wheat, rye and barley.  This article has a good diagram.

https://minervanaturalhealth.com.au/coeliac-disease-gluten-and-oats/

[newtonfree]

1 hour ago, RMJ said:

As a fellow scientist, I like your approach.

There is a good genetic/chemistry reason why some celiacs react to oats.  Oats are in the same sub-family as wheat, rye and barley.  This article has a good diagram.

https://minervanaturalhealth.com.au/coeliac-disease-gluten-and-oats/

A good point (also, thanks for not pointing out my typo in the paragraph you quoted - I should have said "one non-gluten food" rather than "non-wheat" since, of course, rye and barley at not wheat but certainly contain gluten!).

And yes, oats are in the same subfamily as barley, rye and wheat, but chimpanzees and gorillas are all in the same subfamily as us (Homininae), and yet have many biochemical differences from us. Their immune systems are significantly different in how they react to infections, and their digestive systems are very different too. Our closest living subfamily relatives eat mostly fruit, shoots, and leaves, with about 2% of their calories coming from insects and meat. A 98% fruit-and-leaf diet doesn't sit well with us. Gorillas can synthesize every single amino acid, they have no "essential" (meaning "obligate dietary source") amino acids, which is why they can build hundreds of pounds of muscle while eating almost entirely vegetation and fruit. Taxonomy is, of course, descriptive rather than prescriptive.

Proteins designed to bind to a given molecule, like anti-gliadin antibodies, can also end up fitting together with something completelt unintended and unrelated, as well.

Our brains are full of receptors designed to specifically fit GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), one of our most important neurotransmitters. And yet, ethanol from rotting plant matter latches onto a different site of the same protein (the "A" subtype GABA receptor) and activates it nonetheless. Benzodiazepines (like valium) bind differently from alcohol, but still hit the same receptors and have a similar effect, and can be found in nature in certain species of aspergillus fungus.

So the same biologically-active protein (be they anti-gliadin antibodies, GABAA receptors) can potentially be functionally activated by unintended targets from entirely unrelated species of plant, animal or fungus.

If you're a biochemist or biologist, I really don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you. I just like to write things out in an approachable way so that others reading the thread can make sense of it without having that background. I took a lot of evolutionary biology and biochemistry in undergrad, and did research in a neuroscience lab before going into medicine, so while I'm hardly an expert, I've got more than a passing familiarity with taxonomy and comparative biochemistry.

The most important thing I know is that I don't know everything - and therefore must keep an open mind. I truly didn't believe I had celiac disease, and I'm a G-D doctor! But what I had been taught about celiac at "GP" levels of detail, and once took as gospel, I have now recognized was only a small part of the picture. I didn't know how many risk factor genes for IBD turned out to be risk factors for celiac disease as well, which was discovered before I graduated (my grandfather had horribly severe Crohn's). I didn't know about how celiac inflammation can be patchy, so D1 (first segment of the duodenum) biopsies can be negative in a floridly inflamed celiac intestine, or how most endoscopists take 1-2 duodenal biopsies while 6 or more have been proven to catch a significantly higher percentage of celiacs.

I didn't know that IgA levels have to be measured alongside anti-tTg, because IgA deficiency can cause false negatives. I just knew I had screened slightly under the cutoff for anti-tTg on a single measurement years ago, and "that meant I didn't have celiac disease."

Of course, I know all that now, but there's plenty more I still don't know, and more yet to come that no doctor or researcher has figured out.

So I keep a more open mind these days, and simply try my best to put information into context with other things that I, and "we" as a collective, do know.

And I know that proteins like antibodies and receptors that are activated by interfacing with specifically-shaped/charged molecule can and do react to totally unrelated, unanticipated targets, so this business of gliadin cross-reactivity is entirely plausible whether the plants (or animals, in the case of cows) are closely related or not.

That's why I've been receptive to some of the hypotheses of Dr. Sarah Ballantyne as I've been reading what she has to say, even if I don't currently agree with 100% of it, yet I take exception to the quackery and lectin-based fear mongering of "Dr." Gundry (who sadly somehow shares an MD credential with me on paper), whose writing resembles a snake oil charlatan more than any kind of scientist. Dr. Ballantyne's scientific literacy was immediately apparent to me (and makes sense given her research background), while "Dr." Gundry reminds me more of my classmates who continually shocked us all by somehow passing each year and lent credibility to the old joke, "What do you call the dumbest med student in the graduating class? 'Doctor.' "

Gundry goes on about how lectins are essentially the cause of all disease, and yet a simple study like the Danish one I linked above showed that the majority of high-lectin foods have their lectins entirely denatured and inactivated by typical/recommended cooking methods.

So I keep an open mind to everything now...until I find strong evidence that refutes a given hypothesis. Simple answers are rarely the correct ones, but they're fortunately the easiest to test. If lectins caused most diseases, then high lectin diets should be associated with the highest burdens of disease (refuted by epidemiological data on traditionally vegetarian populations who rely on legumes), and lectins should be found not only in the inedible raw forms of foods, but in the ones cooked by standard methods (also not looking like it's the case).

But this is why I'll never have a thriving line of snake oil supplements or cult of personality like him, because I have this stupid, stubborn insistence on being proud of the intellectual honesty of anything I attach my name and credentials to publicly.

[selectivefocus]

3 hours ago, trents said:

Dole's bananas are no different than any other brand. I suspect your reaction has more to do with how ripe the banana is and the level of histamines in your body at the time of consumption. You really should look into MCAS and histamine intolerance.

I have histamine intolerance. My reaction to bananas is as if I ate gluten, and I get DH-like bumps because of it. It is not a histamine reaction (I'm well versed in that unfortunately). 

Everyone should read the replies by the scientist and doctor on this thread. The phrase "potential gliadin cross-reactivity" needs to be a more frequently used phrase. I am one of the people who reacts to oats (as are 3/4 of my children, 2 of whom also get DH, and one who also reacts to bananas as I do).