Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Coeliac and mandibular tori

ceslater

By ceslater
in Related Issues & Disorders

 Share

Recommended Posts

ceslater Rookie
ceslater
Posted

Hi, I was wondering if any other members have coeliac disease and mandibular tori. I have both, and a Google search led me here, to a 20 year old post where 2 group members also had both. Mandibular tori are bony growths on your lower jaw. They are uncommon, with only around 2.7% of the general population having them. They're believed to be caused by grinding teeth, high mineral content in the bones, and some vitamin deficiencies can be linked. My tori are big. I've recently been prescribed long-term calcium and vitamin D3 tablets. I already take D3 and K2. You need K2 to help calcium to be deposited correctly. I've requested a bone density scan. I'm 50 and have recently been diagnosed with celiac disease. My dad was diagnosed at 62 and was anaemic and had osteopena by then. My blood mineral levels are all healthy ... if anything, on the higher end of normal. My Anti-tTG level was 614 in October, so very high. I've just had a gastroscopy done ... waiting for the results. I've requested a bone density scan before I start with the calcium tablets because excess calcium can cause kidney stones, harden arteries and cause heart problems. I consume a huge amount of cheese and milk every day and always have done so I don't believe I'm deficient in calcium. I did a lot of high impact sport when I was younger which would have helped  my skeleton should be healthy. I believe I have tori because of vitamin D and K deficiency (I now take supplements) coupled with good amounts of existing calcium and high bone mineral levels. You just can't grow them unless there's a high amount of mineral (calcium) content in your jaw.

Anyone else have both celiac disease and tori? It's a rare combo but I'd like to know anyone's theory and if their bone density is normal. 

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


trents Grand Master
trents
Posted

Welcome to the forum, @ceslater!

High or normal serum calcium levels mean very little when it comes to bone density sense the body will rob calcium from the bones in order to keep serum levels adequate. Celiac disease typically results in vitamin and mineral deficiencies because of damage done to the villous lining of the small bowel, the area of the intestinal track where all of our nutrition is absorbed. This damage reduces the surface area of the villi and therefore the efficiency of absorption. The results if your gastroscopy and your bone density scan will be telltale in this regard.

ceslater Rookie
ceslater
Posted
  • Author

That's the reason I've asked for a bone density check. I don't want to guess. My minerals levels were completely healthy in my October blood test, and higher than average amounts of calcium have to be present in the mandible in order to grow mandibular tori - the calcium has to already be in the bone matrix to be used to grow them. Hypercalcaemia is as damaging as hypocalcaemia, so I think it's important to check for any depletion in my bone density before starting on the tablets. And I don't want my tori getting even bigger - they're 1/2 cm off touching so they're already big. It's possible that some people with coeliac adjust by producing more metal-shifting enzymes to counter villi damage ... this may be the case with me as I'm not iron deficient. I think it's more that I'm lacking in vitamins. Lack of K2 would potentially assist tori growth. 

knitty kitty Grand Master
knitty kitty
Posted

Welcome to the forum, @ceslater!

Have you had your thyroid and parathyroid glands checked?

Apparently there's a link between Celiac disease and hyperparathyroidism and  mandibular tori.  

Magnesium is important for keeping calcium in the bone in place and not depositing elsewhere.  

Vitamins and minerals important to bone maintenance include Thiamine, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine, selenium and magnesium, as well as calcium and Vitamin D.  

References:

Celiac disease and primary hyperparathyroidism: an infrequent association

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10851394/

Coeliac disease and primary hyperparathyroidism: an association?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653933/

Hyperparathyroidism in dentistry: Issues and challenges!!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4911858/

Short-term oral magnesium supplementation suppresses bone turnover in postmenopausal osteoporotic women

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19488681/

 

ceslater Rookie
ceslater
Posted
  • Author

Thanks for the info. I haven't had that checked, but will enquire about it. I have a GP appt on Monday so will ask then. I'm pretty sure I have some vitamin and mineral deficiencies that had led to the tori, plus I have dry eyes (vit A), I've had bad palpitations and an irregular heartbeat, I have migraines, etc. and ehile not at all overweight, I've been pre-diabetic. I'm sure it's all related.

knitty kitty Grand Master
knitty kitty
Posted

@ceslater,

Ask your doctor for an Erythrocyte Transketolase test to check for Thiamine deficiency.  Although, you can have normal blood levels and still have a clinical thiamine deficiency.  

Palpitations, irregular heartbeat, and migraines are associated with Thiamine deficiency.  Weight loss (without trying) is another symptom.  Dry eyes are associated with Thiamine deficiency.  Diabetes is associated with Thiamine deficiency, too.  About 96% of people with diabetes have Thiamine deficiency.  

I had all of these symptoms of Thiamine deficiency.  My doctors didn't recognize Thiamine deficiency in a non-alcoholic.  Doctors are not required to take much nutritional education while at med school.  Still, check with your doctor about supplementing with B Complex, Vitamin D and magnesium in addition to Thiamine.  Benfotiamine really helped me.  

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

Thiamine and benfotiamine: Focus on their therapeutic potential

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10682628/

Benefits of Supplementing with B Complex

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316433/

Keep us posted on your progress!

ceslater Rookie
ceslater
Posted
  • Author

Many thanks, will do. I have Glucokinase MODY, which is a type of diabetes where glucose levels are mildly elevated. It doesn't require medication, and isn't an autoimmune disorder.  My dad also has mildly elevated glucose levels. It's thought that the glucose receptors in the pancreas have a slightly higher threshold before insulin is released. I'm not underweight ... ideal BMI.  The thiamine is worth checking out. 

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


  • 2 weeks later...
ceslater Rookie
ceslater
Posted
  • Author

Update, I asked to see my blood test results and I'm not deficient in anything. My thiamin levels are normal. I've asked for a bone density scan. My iron haem levels in my red blood cells  are on the high end of normal, with iron serum levels right in the middle of the normal range.

My daughter's recent anti-tTG level is over 500. She's anaemic and has started a course of iron tablets.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):


  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      128,260
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    Elizabeth Tageson
    Newest Member
    Elizabeth Tageson
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.1k
    • Total Posts
      70.8k
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):


  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • trents
      Test uncertainty

      By trents · Posted

      Yes, I can imagine. My celiac journey started with a rejection of a blood donation by the Red Cross when I was 37 because of elevated liver enzymes. I wasn't a drinker and my family doctor checked me for hepatitis and I was not overweight. No answers. I thought no more about it until six years later when I landed a job in a healthcare setting where I got annual CMP screenings as part of my benefits. The liver enzymes were continually elevated and creeping up every year, though they were never super high. My primary care doc had no clue. I got really worried as your liver is pretty important. I finally made an appointment with a GI doc myself and the first thing he did was test me for celiac disease. I was positive. That was in about 1996. After going on a gluten-free diet for three months the liver enzymes were back in normal range. Another lab that had gotten out of whack that has not returned to normal is albumin/total protein which are always a little on the low side. I don't know what that's about, if it's related to the liver or something else like leaky gut syndrome. But my doctors don't seem to be worried about it. One thing to realize is that celiac disease can onset at any stage of life. There is a genetic component but there is also an epigenetic component. That is, the genetic component is not deterministic. It only provides the potential. There needs also to be some health or environmental stressor to activate the latent gene potential. About 40% of the population have the genetic potential to develop celiac disease but only about 1% actually do.
    • cristiana
      Does this definitely suggest Coeliac Disease?

      By cristiana · Posted

      Hello @Heather Hill You are most welcome.  As a longstanding member and now mod of the forum, I am ashamed to say I find numbers and figures very confusing, so I rarely stray into the realms of explaining markers. (I've self-diagnosed myself with dyscalculia!)  So I will leave that to @Scott Adams or another person. However as a British person myself I quite understand that the process with the NHS can take rather a long time.  But just as you made a concerted effort to eat gluten before your blood test, I'd advise doing the same with eating gluten before a biopsy, in order to show if you are reacting to gluten.  It might be worth contacting the hospital or your GPs secretary to find out if they know what the current waiting time is. Here is a page from Coeliac UK about the current NHS recommendations. https://www.coeliac.org.uk/information-and-support/coeliac-disease/getting-diagnosed/blood-tests-and-biospy/#:~:text=If you remove or reduce,least six weeks before testing. Cristiana  
    • MI-Hoosier
      Test uncertainty

      By MI-Hoosier · Posted

      Thanks again. My mom was diagnosed over 50 years ago with celiac so grew up watching her deal with the challenges of food. I have been tested a few times prior due to this but these results have me a bit stunned. I have a liver disease that has advanced rapidly with no symptoms and an allergy that could be a contributing factor that had no symptoms. I guess I’ll call it lucky my Dr ordered a rescreen of a liver ultrasound from 5 years ago that triggered this or I would likely have tripped into cirrhosis. It’s all pretty jarring.
    • Heather Hill
      Does this definitely suggest Coeliac Disease?

      By Heather Hill · Posted

      Many thanks for your responses, much appreciated.  The tests did include tTg IgA and all the other markers mentioned.  I also had sufficient total IgA so if I'm reading the Mayo clinic thing correctly, I didn't really need the anti-deaminated gliadin marker? So, if I am reading the information correctly do I conclude that as all the other markers including tTg IgA and DGP IgG and tTg IgG and EMA IgA are all negative, then the positive result for the immune response to gliadin, on it's own, is more likely to suggest some other problem in the gut rather than Coeliac disease? Until I have a view from the medics (NHS UK) then I think I will concentrate on trying to lower chronic inflammation and mend leaky gut, using L glutamine and maybe collagen powder. Thank you for your help so far.  I will get back in touch once I have a response, which sadly can take quite a long time.   Kindest Heather Hill 
    • trents
      Test uncertainty

      By trents · Posted

      To put this in perspective, most recent pretest "gluten challenge" guidelines for those having already been eating reduced gluten or gluten free for a significant time period is the daily consumption of 10g of gluten (about the amount in 4-6 slices of wheat bread) for a minimum of two weeks leading up to the day of testing (antibody or biopsy). And I would certainly give it more than two weeks to ensure a valid test experience. Short answer: If it were me, yes, I would assume I have celiac disease and launch full bore into gluten-free eating. I think the tTG-IGA is reliable enough and your score is solid enough to make that a reasonable conclusion. Here is an article to help you get off to a good start. It's easy to achieve a reduced gluten free state but much more difficult to achieve consistency in truly gluten-free eating. Gluten is hidden in so many ways and found in so many food products where you would never expect to find it. For example, soy sauce and canned tomato soup (most canned soups, actually), pills, medications, health supplements. It can be disguised in terminology. And then there is the whole issue of cross contamination where foods that are naturally gluten free become contaminated with gluten incidentally in agricultural activities and manufacturing processes: Eating out at restaurants is a mine field for those with celiac disease because you don't know how food is handled back in the kitchen. Gluten free noodles boiled in the same water that was used for wheat noodles, eggs cooked on the same griddle that French toast was, etc.  
×
×
  • Create New...