Does anyone get weird symptoms like random anxiety and yawning ?

[Baz]

Hi Guys, new on here but i wanted to reach out as my labs came back positive and i have an endoscopy on the 18th of Sep. The testing came about because i visited the doctor after a few days of constant yawning, but being unable to complete it, they said it was probably anxiety but thats weird becuase i have never struggled with it before, apart from the odd panic attack every now and then. I did some research and apparently its called air hunger, caused by a low tollerence to C02, its harmeless. A few days later i got a call back from my doctor saying i tested positive for the celiac disease antibodies, i have now started to get some of the more traditional symptoms like bloating and funny stomach after heaten gluten. I have read that gluen can have an effect on the vaugs nerve which could be a cause, and i have read that gluten can cuase anxeity for people with celiac disease so perhaps its because of that ? anyways, i just wanted to put this out there to see if anyone has had a smimilar experience and if going on a GFD helped ease the symptoms. 

[Wheatwacked]

Welcome to the forum, @Baz

While waiting for the endoscopy, be sure to continue eating gluten.  It is annoying but the endoscopy is looking for a certain type and amount of damage.  More is better.

4 hours ago, Baz said:

probably anxiety

Must be the modern day option to "Take two aspirin and call me in the morning"!

Yes you will feel better on GFD.  But it sometimes can be a rough road.  As you heal, you'll absorb more of the nutrients you need.

Vitamin D deficiency would be a start for your yawning.  VDD (vitamin D deficiency) is common in Celiac Disease.  First, everyone avoids the sun.  Second, Celaic Disease causes malabsorption of vitamin D in the small intestine.  Ask your doctor to test you for 25-hydroxy D blood test, if he hasn't already.

As an indicator, I need to take 10,000 IU a day to maintain 80 ng/ml; equal to 200 nmol/L in some labs; the level where it has the most benefit to me.  I started in 2015.

One theory of yawning is it is the immune system raising your alertness to your surroundings.  A primal urge.  I like; you are more tired than you think.

Common Nutrient Deficiencies in People with Newly Diagnosed/Untreated Celiac Disease

Edited August 20 by Wheatwacked

[trents]

Yes, don't start the gluten free diet until all testing for celiac disease is complete.

[Baz]

Thanks Guys, I will make sure i continue eating gluten until my endoscopy. As for the VDD would it be okay for me to start trying to increase my intake of this without effecting the Endoscopy. 

In regards to the Yawning i like that idea of it being a primal urge, could the urge 'your more tired than you think' be becuase i have a bit of underlaying fatiuge due to gluten consumption ? 

I have also read that it could be due to bloating putting pressure on the diaphram. However i dont feel like im having trouble breathing, only that i need to sigh and yawn ever couple seconds. Its very frustrating ! 

The last interesting thing that i read is that it could be due to vagus nerve stimulation...

Thanks again for your replies, i am still learning how to use this site so appologies if i havn't replied properly ! 

[cristiana]

Hello @Baz.   LIke you I'd never suffered anxiety in the form I had it prior to diagnosis, and in the months after.  In my case it was debilitating and so alien to me I didn't know what it was at first.  It is not uncommon in coeliacs.  In my case I think it was to do with low B12 and low iron.  You need to be tested for deficiencies in these, if you haven't already.   These deficiencies can also contribute to fatigue.  

[Baz]

Hi @cristiana 

My B12 bloods came back at 302 ng/l which according to the NHS is normal. Did you find once you supplimented for your deficency and adopted a GFD your symptoms went away ? Also did you ever struggle with the 'air hunger'/yawning. 

my bloods did come back as boarderline iron defficent, could that be relevent ? 

[cristiana]

Hi Baz

I am not medically qualified, I ought to say that first!

But my B12 was considered borderline normal by UK standards at diagnosis and reading around the subject at the time other countries set their limits higher.  I read on this site that 500 is a better level, and that is the Japanese normal (but please do check up on this, I am afraid I can't cite anything to prove it but have read it more than once online).  As for your iron, I am not sure what your numbers are but mine were 6, I think, at diagnosis.  They improved to the teens/early 20s.  A while later, I had to see a consultant with a lesion in my mouth (non cancerous) and he told me he thought it was due to low iron at that level, describing my iron levels as 'dreadful'!.  He wanted to see my iron hit at least 40.   So do think that what you are describing is relevant.  

There are periods I yawn a lot, and sometimes I only need to see someone yawn and it sets me off.  I feel like yawning even reading this thread - not because it is boring, just because even discussing the subject makes me want to yawn!  Whilst I am quite sure that there could be a physical cause or it might be related to anxiety, perhaps as it is on your mind it is making things worse?

Cristiana 

Edited August 20 by cristiana

[Wheatwacked]

7 hours ago, Baz said:

As for the VDD would it be okay for me to start trying to increase my intake of this without effecting the Endoscopy. 

Yes.

B12 is needed to absorb iron, so though you are above average for the UK, raising it may help to raise your iron without resorting to iron pills which can aggrevate your stomach.  Along with eating meat and eggs.  Do you eat vegetarian a lot?

8 hours ago, Baz said:

my bloods did come back as boarderline iron defficent, could that be relevent ? 

 

Quote

 

Iron deficiency anaemia

Symptoms of iron deficiency anaemia can include:

• tiredness and lack of energy
• shortness of breath
• noticeable heartbeats (heart palpitations)
• paler than usual skin
• headaches

 

•  
• 302 ng/L = 302 pg/ml = 223 pmol/L
• The medical field in Japan and Europe considers a patient to have vitamin B12 deficiency if testing reveals levels below 550 pg/mL.  Meanwhile, the low end of “normal” in America is 200pg/mL to 350 pg/mL. 
• According to Gloucestershire Hospital Haematology Deptartment the range is  Vitamin B12 180 - 1000 pg/mL.
• As of April 2024, the average active vitamin B12 level for adults in the UK is 96.5 pmol/L. (130 ng/ml). Oh my!
• My own tested last month in the US is 875 pg/ml Range 232-1245.

Additional likely deficiencies and what I take to boost my intake (I get anorexic at the drop of a hat so I take them to keep me stable):  the ones that helped me the most noticibly Was increasing vitamin D blood level to 80 ng/ml and Iodine to 650 mcg a day, Thiamine, Choline, and Iodine.

[Eldene]

I have had IBS (Celiac?) since a young age and got my first panic attack when I was 29. I have suffered from depression and anxiety for 40 years now. Is there a link?

[cristiana]

Hi @Eldene

My experience is yes, albeit in my case, I think it was due to low B12 and low iron.   In particular I found that when I drank anything with B12 in it at that time, my anxiety left me within a few hours.  

Are your B12 or iron levels low?  

That said, it is worth bearing in mind that non-coeliacs get depression and anxiety, so it might be unrelated.

You might find this thread helpful:

 

[Baz]

@cristiana I was having a read through that thread you linked (Very interesting BTW). It sounds like your symptoms pre-diagnosis are following a pretty similiar pattern to mine. 

I woke up one morning after a super nice sunday, with these breathless feelings and unexplained anxeity. Like you it was a super alien feeling, not in that i hadn't felt general anxeity before (i had, but usualy after a night of of drinking, and when anything causes my heart rate to spike) but becuase there was seemingly nothing that was causeing it. I wasnt haveing any stomache issues, sickness or even a headache, so my mind didnt even go towards a physical factor could be causeing it, the only thing i could pin point was my breathing, and how i had to keep gasping for air (even though it felt like my background breathing was normal). This concerned me so i went ot the doctors. They ran the classic asthma tests, and vitals (everything was fine) and then also took my blood to check for clots. She said she would call back within the day if anything abnormal came up. 

Fast forward 1.5 weeks, i had kind of accepted that somthing weird was going on but nothing that was going to kill me (Since the doctor didn't call back). By this point i was feeling anxious in situations i had been confertable in just days before, like: going to the cinima & watching TV in bed with my girlfriend. Then out of the blue my doctor called me and let  me know they had found the enzymes in my blood for celiac. That was about 2 weeks ago now.

Since then i have obviously been researching, and i have started to notice that perhaps i was getting low level digestive symptoms of celiac months before i went to the doctors. Mainly bloating. I dont think i have not been bloated for litteraly months. Im now starting to get mood swings, anxiety and general feeling of not being myself. So perhaps those months where i was always bloated had been doing damage to my SI and only now am i stating to feel the affect on the brain of vitimin defficency...

[cristiana]

Baz, you could be talking about me.  I too used to feel absolutely fine, going about my business, then this very alien feeling would hit me.  I remember often it would be just when I was sitting in front of the TV (not watching anything scary!)  It sounds like you are experiencing something very similar.

As I say, I am not medically qualified, but perhaps you might like to look at Steve Llardi's book The Depression Cure: Six Step Programme to Beat Depression without Drugs and see what you think.  Don't get me wrong, if you are taking medication for anxiety, obey doctor's orders.  But in Dr Llardi's book, he sets out the six steps to adopt that can often really help people recover from depression,  and in my case they worked well for helping me recover from anxiety:

- physical exercise
- omega-3 fatty acids
- natural sunlight exposure
- restorative sleep
- social connectedness
- meaningful, engaging activity
 

Paul David, founder of the Anxiety No More website, was one of the first websites I found that described how I was feeling, to a T.   His book, At Last a Life was also tremendously helpful in my recovery. 

In my own case recovery took time. If you could chart my recovery in chart form, it wasn't a straight upward line of recovery, but rather a jagged one with a few setbacks.  At the beginning I might have two or three hours a day where I felt normal, a few weeks later I might only have a few hours where I felt anxious, some days I felt I'd made no progress at all.  That is what recovery from anxiety and depression can look like.  But the overall trajectory was up.  Feeling anxious is horrible but, in the same way we wouldn't expect to immediately recover from a broken leg, it can take a while to feel completely better again.  

One thing I must point out on supplementing:  I am sorry as I haven't had much time to read your posts but if you are going to supplement iron under the direction of your GP/consultant, do make sure your blood iron is monitored regularly  Too much iron can make people very ill.

 

Edited August 22 by cristiana

[Wheatwacked]

6 hours ago, Eldene said:

I have suffered from depression and anxiety for 40 years now. Is there a link?

Vitamin D deficiency.  I was depressed from age 39 until I started taking 10,000 IU a day at 64 years old.  I started being morbidly depressed at 39 because I was sure I would die on my 39 1/2 birthday.  My maternal grandfather had a massive heart attack and passed at that age.  Of course everyone said get over it, but that feeling never left, I just stopped talking about it.  I started D3 on the recommendation of my oldest friend in Spring 2015 after starting GFD Thanksgiving 2014.  I increased the dose by 1000 IU a week, until on the third day at 10,000 IU I looked at the bottle, had an epiphany and exclaimed "This stuff is sunshine in a bottle!"  Each time I go off it I get reclusive.  My first sign is annoyance at the phone and I let things pile up on horizontal surfaces and I stop reading email and avoid going out.  This last time, from May until July, my vitamin D blood dropped from over 80 ng/ml for over a year to 54 ng/ml, dispite getting several hours of full S. Florida sun every week.  Proof to me that it was not just "in my head".  In 2019, the first time a doctor agreed to test me ("In Florida vitamin D deficiency is not an issue") for vitamin D it was still only 47 ng/ml.  4 years at 10,000 a day.  By the way that doctor told me to not come back because the BP meds he prescribed were not working and he accused me of not taking them.  In fact the amlodipine dryed my eyes out making wearing contacts, -10 diopter so glasses are very thick and heavy, difficult and the Lisinopril caused that persistant cough which gave me an inguinal hernia, which I am still dealing with but is improving since raising my iodine intake to 1000 mcg a day starting last September.  My father and older brother died of sepsis after 'routine' abdominal surgery.  Leaky gut. Both surgeons stated their guts were like sewing lace.

Edited August 21 by Wheatwacked
change a day to a week

[Wheatwacked]

Celiac Disease causes malabsorption of some 20 vitamins.  Many of the symptoms suffered are the result of low levels of these vitamins and minerals.

Quote

 

Merck Manual Professial Edition: "Celiac Disease"

Celiac disease is an immunologically mediated disease in genetically susceptible people caused by intolerance to gluten, resulting in mucosal inflammation and villous atrophy, which causes malabsorption.

 

3 hours ago, Baz said:

i was getting low level digestive symptoms of celiac months before

Low Choline causes bile backup interfering with fat digestion. 

Quote

BMJ Nutrition, Prevention & Health: "Could we be overlooking a potential choline crisis in the United Kingdom?

In 2011 the EFSA authorised a number of choline-related health claims. It was concluded that a cause and effect relationship had been established between the following: (1) “choline is needed for lipids metabolism”, (2) “maintaining healthy liver functioning” and (3) “reduction in homocysteine levels”...  Relevantly, European research has shown that habitual choline intakes are, on average, below the AI established in 1998 by the IOM, and that meat, milk, eggs, grains and their derived products were the predominant sources of dietary choline... US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey data (NHANES; 2009–2014 datasets) achievement of the AI for choline was extremely difficult without the consumption of eggs or taking a dietary supplement... Other work based on the NHANES datasets showed that only around 11% of American adults achieve the IOM AI for choline... using the Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ) recipe files, and when applied it was discovered that less than 10% of the population were found to achieve the AI for choline (eggs again ranked top as a contributor).  

 

3 hours ago, Baz said:

i had, but usualy after a night of of drinking, and when anything causes my heart rate to spike

Quite possibly low Thiamine.

Quote

13 Vitamins for Anxiety Relief

Vitamin B1 (thiamine) Like other B vitamins, vitamin B1 supports healthy organ functioning, and thiamine has been found effective in treating a variety of anxiety disorders. It does this by helping to maintain a healthy nervous system which is important for effectively combating high stress levels that can occur with anxiety.

 

Studies have shown that low levels of Lithium in drinking water have been linked to depression.  With everyone drinking bottled water, this is something to consider.  I took 5 mg a day for a few bottles and it seemed to help that feeling that I needed to do something, now.  I can't help but wonder if the increase in mass shootings in the US may be related to everyone drinking bottled water.

Quote

 

Association between lithium levels in drinking water and suicide rates: Role of affective disorders

Higher lithium levels in drinking water are inversely associated with the lower suicide rates in areas with high incidence of affective disorders.

Even very low levels of lithium in drinking water may play a role to save lives among people with affective disorders.

 

 

[knitty kitty]

Hey, @Baz,

My yawning and anxiety were due to Thiamine deficiency.  

I was yawning all the time and having more frequent anxiety which escalated to panic attacks.  The Thiamine deficiency progressed to Gastrointestinal Beriberi, which has the same symptoms as you mentioned, gas bloating and diarrhea.  

Alcohol consumption can cause Thiamine deficiency by itself, but add to that poor absorption  caused by Celiac Disease, and you're behind the eight ball.  

We need more Thiamine if we eat a high carbohydrate diet or drink alcohol. 

We need more Thiamine when we're ill, emotionally stressed, or physically active outside in hot weather.  Heat and light destroy Thiamine, so working and exercising outside in a heat wave can precipitate Thiamine deficiency.

We can experience Thiamine deficiency symptoms within three days.

Thiamine is very important to the vagus nerve and the lower brain that controls the autonomic nervous system (things you don't have to consciously think about doing, like breathing and digesting food).  Thiamine also influences the fight or flight response.  If there's an insufficiency of Thiamine, the fight or flight response can have difficulty turning off.  So irritability and anxiety escalate.

Thiamine deficiency can affect balance, swallowing and the voice.  (Ever notice how some people who drink alcohol have hoarse, raspy voices? Low thiamine.)

Some medications can negatively affect Thiamine levels, so watch out for anti-anxiety meds and antidepressants, some diuretics and antidiabetic meds.

Thiamine and the other seven B vitamins  and Vitamin C and D work together, so take a B Complex, magnesium, and Thiamine in the form of Benfotiamine or Thiamine Hydrochloride.  Remember, gluten free facsimile foods are not required to be enriched with vitamins like their gluten containing counterparts.  Taking supplements helps boost your absorption so you can heal and feel better sooner.  

 

Interesting Reading:

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

 

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

 

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8533683/

 

B Vitamins in the nervous system: Current knowledge of the biochemical modes of action and synergies of thiamine, pyridoxine, and cobalamin

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6930825/

Inhibition of α-glucosidase by vitamin D3 and the effect of vitamins B1 and B2

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26744303/

Edited August 22 by knitty kitty
Typo correction

[Baz]

@knitty kitty thank you for taking time to write this. 
 

this would make a lot of sense as I consume high amounts of carbs ever single day in the form of rice. I also play golf every day after work and on the weekends, so I spend pretty much 4 hours or more a day walking round in the sun. I’ll look into these supliments and start taking them. Did you symptoms improve once you started taking them ? 

[knitty kitty]

@Baz,

Oh, yes, indeed, the symptom improvement for me was within an hour.  I was extremely low, so my improvement was probably more dramatic than most.  I had  Wernicke's Encephalopathy but do not drink.  (Alcohol makes me feel like I drank ground glass.)  

If you want to be checked for vitamin deficiencies, do it before taking supplements.  Once you start taking supplements, blood tests will reflect the vitamin supplements and can mask a true deficiency.  

The vitamins are in the bran of brown rice, so if you eat white rice or polished rice, it's easy to become thiamine deficient.  Vitamins are added to white rice, extruded so the vitamin blob looks like a piece of rice.  (Look closely, it's the opaque grains.) 

Usually Thiamine Mononitrate is added to processed foods because this form of Thiamine is shelf-stable, it doesn't degrade with exposure to heat and light, but because, it's shelf-stable stable, it's hard for our bodies to utilize it because it won't react.  

Benfotiamine has been shown to promote healing in the intestines.  I take this form with two meals.  I try not to take any form of Thiamine late in the day because my brain keeps thinking in a pleasant way and doesn't want to go to sleep.

I also took, still take, the form Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide TTFD (Ecological Formulas Allithiamine) which can cross the blood brain barrier without a carrier molecule, so it really helps with brain fog, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, mood swings, vertigo, etc.  

Takeda ALINAMIN EX Plus Vitamin B1 B6 B12 is a Japanese brand with Pyridoxine and Cobalamine, which is wonderful.  The Japanese have done lots of research and development of Thiamine from garlic (Allium).  (Yes, sometimes I do have an aromatic garlicky scent, but it keeps vampires away, so it's all good....)

Benfotiamine will cross the blood brain barrier with a carrier molecule (red blood cells), so it will get into the brain, too.  

Thiamine needs magnesium to make life sustaining enzymes, so I take Magnesium Chelate, an easily absorbable form.  Don't take Magnesium Oxide.   It's used for constipation because it pulls water into the bowels.  (Magnesium Oxide is Milk of Magnesia.) 

I also take Magnesium Threonate (Mag Tein) which is a form of magnesium that can get into the brain easier than other forms.  

TTFD and Magnesium threonate are my cup o' coffee in the morning.

This site has tons of information about taking Thiamine.  Dr. Derrick Lonsdale and Dr. Chandler Marrs' site and their book...Thiamine Deficiency Disease, Dysautonomia and High Calorie Malnutrition

https://hormonesmatter.com/navigating-thiamine-supplements/

High Calorie Malnutrition is where you eat more carbohydrates than your body can process without sufficient thiamine, so the carbs get stored as fat.  For every extra thousand calories, we need an extra mg of Thiamine.  

Alcohol and High Fructose Corn Syrup have to be processed through the liver.  Without sufficient thiamine, fatty liver will develop.  My fatty liver became not fatty with Thiamine supplementation.  Gluten free processed foods often contain HFCS, so make a different choice.  

Try different kinds and different dosages of Thiamine to see what works best for you.  I found taking up to 300 mg throughout the day best.  Our bodies cannot absorb more than 300 mg in three hours and will get rid of the excess in urine.  So small doses throughout the day.  

Check out my blog for more Thiamine information...and bits of my journey to diagnosis...

Keep us posted on your progress!

[Baz]

@knitty kitty 

my mum was borderline diabetic a couple months ago, so the rice I do consume is mostly brown ?  

[knitty kitty]

Brown rice isn't fortified. 

Grocery store lights will deplete Thiamine in brown rice just like sunlight.  And if you're eating a lot of it while low in Thiamine....High Calorie Malnutrition, and Celiac malabsorption...  

I would try supplementing.

"Hi" to your mum!  I'm diabetic, too.  Most diabetics are deficient in Thiamine because our kidneys don't filter thiamine out properly, so we lose a lot of Thiamine in urine.  Anti-diabetic medications, Metformin, glyburides, glypizides, etc., block thiamine from getting into cells by attaching to the Thiamine/Folate transporters on the cell surface.  With transporters blocked, Thiamine can only get into cells by passive diffusion (higher concentration moves to lower concentration as with Thiamine Hydrochloride) or by one of the allium derivatives, TTFD, Benfotiamine, Alinamin which have a fatty tail that can penetrate the cell membranes and release the thiol ring part of Thiamine inside the cells.  

Taking these forms has helped me control my blood glucose levels with diet instead of pharmaceuticals.  

Give your mum some Benfotiamine! 

[knitty kitty]

 

Thiamine and diabetes: back to the future?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8505293/

The first reports of a link between thiamine and diabetes date back to the 1940s. Some years later, a role for thiamine deficiency in diabetic neuropathy became evident, and some pilot studies evaluated the putative effects of thiamine supplementation. However, the administration of thiamine and its lipophilic derivative benfotiamine for the treatment of this complication gained consensus only at the end of the ‘90 s. The first evidence of the beneficial effects of thiamine on microvascular cells involved in diabetic complications dates to 1996: from then on, several papers based on in vitro and animal models have addressed the potential use of this vitamin in counteracting diabetic microangiopathy. A few pilot studies in humans reported beneficial effects of thiamine administration on diabetic nephropathy, but, despite all promising proofs-of-concept, the possible role of thiamine in counteracting development or progression of retinopathy has not been addressed until now. Thiamine is a water-soluble vitamin, rapidly expelled from the body, with no issues of over-dosage or accumulation; unfortunately, it is non-patentable, and neither industry nor independent donors are interested in investing in large-scale randomized controlled clinical trials to investigate its potential in diabetes and its complications. Consequently, science will not be able to disprove a promising hypothesis and, more importantly, diabetic people remain deprived of a possible way to ameliorate their condition."

[Baz]

@knitty kitty

Thanks for this, I have an appointment with the doctor on the 3rd so I’ll get them to run some bloods to check my thiamine and if I’m deficient I’ll start supplementing. Thanks for your help !  

[knitty kitty]

The second best test for Thiamine is the Erythrocyte Transketolase test.  I don't know if it's still available.  The labs were closed a couple years ago.

The best test is to take it for a few weeks and look for improvement.  So after you get your blood drawn, take some Thiamine just to see for yourself if you notice improvement.  Let us know what you think of it!