Anyone else with very high HDL?

[plumbago]

Since some time between 2010 and 2014, my HDL-C has been going up and you might even say elevated. The last time I could find in my records that my HDL was normal was in 2014 when it was 67. Last week, it was 101, and it’s been 88 and above since about 2015. A significant life event happened in 2010 when I was diagnosed with Celiac disease and in May of that year began a gluten free diet. An informal perusal of a previously posted topic on HDL on this forum shows that a lot of members responding had high normal or high levels of HDL, so it doesn’t seem to be that unusual. But because my HDL numbers have been so high for so long, I am now officially concerned enough that I will probably reach out to a cardiologist who specializes in lipids. I would like to know if I should have a genetic test, as a specific genetic mutation can be one reason for high HDL numbers. I will also ask if he/she thinks a cardiac work up including a coronary artery calcium score should be considered. I think by now most of us are done with the ridiculous good and bad cholesterol labels; the amount of what we don’t know about HDL is quite large. For me my questions include is it a matter of production or an inability to clear HDL, and are the high levels having an effect on my vasculature (or a result of a less than optimal vasculature)? My last TSH level was normal, so it's likely not a thyroid issue. I also take B12 regularly. I’ve read that niacin can cause HDL levels to go up, but B12 is not niacin, and I could find no definitive link between robust B12 supplementation and abnormally high HDL levels. Any input is appreciated!

Plumbago

Edited February 15 by plumbago

[trents]

But HDL is considered to be the "good" cholesterol, right?

[plumbago]

Yes, well, that's what we have been told, probably ever since the different types of cholesterol were identified. It's what most of our primary care providers are still telling us, it's what the commercials tell us. But researchers (up until now at any rate) have been learning a great deal about HDL. Nevertheless, the universe of what we still don't know about HDL is vast. And since I can sustain only a 35% level of understanding when I hear lectures on HDL, I will have to nutshell my layperson's understanding, which is that at this time, it's possible or likely that HDL-C levels are best understood as U-shaped, that there's a sweet spot right there in the dip of the "U" and anything before or after is not ideal. This is why I said what I did earlier about the "good" and the "bad" being oversimplifications. The research has long since moved on.

There's a lot of talk about how the focus should be on functionality, that you want to make sure that all that HDL is performing how it should be.

And now, that's it, I've exhausted my ability to explain my understanding of HDL!

[knitty kitty]

@plumbago,

Are you taking any folate with your B12?  

Folate helps regulate HDL levels.  You may try taking a methylfolate supplement with your B12.   If there's a folate deficiency because you aren't absorbing sufficient folate, or have the MThF mutation causing a functional folate deficiency (methylfolate trap), you can have a functional B12 deficiency despite supplementing, resulting in HDL levels not getting regulated, but running high or low.  

Pushing the envelope in explanations, too.

P. S. Are you taking a B Complex?  Folate and B12 Cobalamine need enzymes made from B6 Pyridoxine's interaction with Thiamine, and B2 Riboflavin's interaction with Thiamine.  Is your Vitamin D low?

Edited February 15 by knitty kitty
Added Post Script

[plumbago]

The last time my vitamin D was very low, according to a lab test, was before I was diagnosed with celiac disease. I've been supplementing ever since, and now the numbers on the lab tests are within their normal ranges, oftentimes way above. I've also been supplementing with methylcobalamin (B12) since I was low before diagnosis in 2010, and now I'm fine. I'm surprised I ever requested a folate level, but I did, in 2019. Result 9.4 ng/mL (range >3.0).

 

 

[knitty kitty]

Wow, @plumbago,

Curiouser, and curioser...

Have you been fasting?  Apparently HDL levels increase after fasting...

https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(23)31185-7/abstract

 

I must say it, try taking some Thiamine.  Thiamine helps regulate lipoproteins... Thiamine helped lower HDL in this study whether they had diabetes or not.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3921172/#:~:text=Serum thiamine and its derivatives,supplementation (p %3D 0.009).

[trents]

Well, I have the opposite problem. My LDL has been moderately high for years. I eat healthy and exercise regularly but can't seem to move that meter. I used to be on a statin (and my doctors want me to go back on one) and it brought both HDL and LDL down but the ratios never changed. I think a lot of that cholesterol stuff is just baked into the genes.

[plumbago]

I have taken thiamine on and off (just not at this exact moment), and I’m not sure it's made any difference. Yes, I almost always “fast” (12 hours NPO) for blood tests, as do a great many other Americans, so I tend to think that’s not it.

All I can say is that the mystery continues. I could do some speculating here…well, heck, let me go ahead and speculate now:

The lab ranges we all see on our reports are more or less the averages of Americans who have had those blood tests. Now, it’s up to you and me whether or not to think of the average American as healthy. I can make arguments both ways, more often than not, on the negative. My point here is that maybe the current range of HDL is somewhat skewed (ie, low), and maybe just maybe my super high (plus 100s) HDL results are not something to worry about; the range just needs updating. Why do I say this? Because pre-celiac disease diagnosis, my HDL values were in the normal range, but post celiac disease diagnosis, my HDL levels are way above average. See where I’m going? My trusty guidebook on celiac disease, Recognizing Celiac Disease by Cleo Libonati, RN, BSN, says that HDL increases after being on the gluten free diet. Or can increase, I guess.

Then again, it could be something else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In thinking of going to a cardiologist, I sort of fear that he/she will be dismissive of a link to celiac disease, treated celiac disease, and would not therefore be considering all possibilities.

@trents I'm sorry you've been diligently working on your numbers to no effect. That must be frustrating. LDL is a world that is far better understood than HDL, so for you there's maybe less "mystery." Familial hypercholesterolemia is for sure something that can be tested. Outside of that, you're right, genetics can determine a general pattern.

[Wheatwacked]

@plumbago,

I found a good PDF on cholesterol:  Unlocking the mysteries of VLDL: exploring its production, intracellular trafficking, and metabolism as therapeutic targets

I just started it, but it may have answers for us, with whacky cholesterol.  The pharmaceuticals don't seem to be interested in anything but statins.  

"The nicotine in tobacco causes a decrease in the HDL cholesterol level. "

Maybe you should start smoking? 🤪

I have high LDL and low HDL.  It is genetic mutations in the LDLR, APOB, PCSK9, or LDLRAP1 genes. My whole family is on statins for Familial Hyperliperdemia except me.  December I had ultrasound and cat scan for Carotid Artery blockage and both sides are above 85% blockage.  I started on Atorvastatin and that made me weaker than ever, even with CoQ10.  I asked for and got prescription for 2000 mg/day Nicotinic Acid B3 and in the 3 weeks my numbers changed. I am feeling realy good lately.  Stronger and more flexible.  Sleeping better.  Getting roto router (TCar) as soon as I get clearance from a cardiologist.  I expect that by my next blood panels in April to be even better.

I am beginning to believe that like vitamin D where the RDA only accounts for preventing Rickets, the RDA for B3 is way underestimated.  

• From Oct 22 to Jan 17:
• A1c from 13.5 to 10.2
• eGFR from 55 to 79
• Triglyeride from 458 to 362
• Total cholesterol from 245 to 264
• HDL from 27 to 44
• VLDL from 84 to 68
• LDL from 134 to 154

[plumbago]

A relative has opened another door for me on this issue -- the possibility of menopause raising HDL. Most studies suggest that menopause decreases HDL-C, however, one study found that often it's increased.

"Surprisingly, HDL cholesterol was higher (p < 0.001) in postmenopausal women by 11%. Further, the number of women who had low HDL cholesterol was higher in pre vs. postmenopausal women. The range of ages were 26–49 years for pre-menopausal and 51–74 years for postmenopausal women.

"This interesting finding has also been observed by other investigators. It is possible that the observed increase in HDL-C in postmenopausal women could be due to a protective mechanism to counterbalance the deleterious effects of biomarkers associated with menopause. However, further studies are needed to confirm this theory.

And to the point raised earlier about functionality:

"...some patients with elevated HDL-C concentrations could remain at risk for coronary events if HDL is not functional and some authors have suggested that this could be the case for menopausal women."

Postmenopausal Women Have Higher HDL and Decreased Incidence of Low HDL than Premenopausal Women with Metabolic Syndrome.

By no means to I think this is definitive, rather food for thought.

[cookiesyum]

The easiest way to remember the difference between the cholesterol types is

HDL;   H=healthy equals healthy (omega 3, 7, limit 6 & 9 MCFA'S =Medium Chain Fatty Acids. 3= coconut oil, 7= sunflower oil, avocado. The higher your HDL the healthier you are & less likely to experience strokes, clogged arteries Etc. You can even use cold expeller pressed coconut oil on your skin and that is the best kind of coconut oil to eat as well. You want your HDL much higher than your LDL, it will help you stay healthy.

 

LDL;    L=Lousy. Meat fats, processed fats.  The higher your LDL is the more likely you will have strokes, clogged artery is, heart disease, fatty liver.

 

Then there's lipids... they are the culprit to be blamed for many heart attacks and things like that they are very small round particles that transport fats. You can have a low overall cholesterol reading and most of it be healthy cholesterol and have a ton of lipids and there's nothing you can do to change the lipid count. High number of lipids is very dangerous.

 

I'm going on statins is extremely dangerous if you ask me it's just completely my opinion, because I have seen so many of my elderly friends bleed to death internally because of the statins. I mean you wouldn't take all the oil and grease out of your car or a motorcycle and then try to drive it that way would you? You see that's what statins do they remove all of your bodies fats and it doesn't matter whether it's healthy fats or a lousy fats. It removes all of them and then your body can't function properly. You have to have fats to keep your skin supple and to stay warm. Your body also needs fats to digest & process certain nutrients, amino acids & vitamins.   Your brain is composed of fat so is that something you really want to remove with a pill every morning and night?

  The thing about statins is that they also make the blood vessels and capillaries permeable. So this is how my friends who were on cardiac medication for a long time and statins ended up bleeding internally to death.

 

If you want to make sure that your heart is healthy, take odorless garlic at night and magnesium, vitamin K & calcium. 

 

 

[Wheatwacked]

Welcome to the forum @cookiesyum,

I lasted on staton for about a month before getting so weak I had to stop.   Switched to Nicotinic Acid and I posted the results in a previous post.  Instead of getting sicker and weaker on the statin I feel I am improving day by day.  Nicotinic Acid was first used for cholesterol in 1955.

 

Quote

Meta-analysis on Subgroup of Patients Without Statin Treatment

In the subgroup of patients not treated with a statin, niacin arms showed improvement on secondary outcomes measurements. For example, among trials reporting data on acute coronary syndrome,the niacin arms were associated with a 26% lower rate compared with controls among patients not treated with statins. As another example, niacin treatment was associated with a 26% reduction in stroke events in the subgroup without costatin treatment. Finally, in the 13 trials that measured risk of revascularization procedure, niacin treatment was associated with reduced risk for both groups. The reduction point estimate was lower in the subgroup of patients without a background statin treatment (RR, 0.51; 95% CI, 0.37-0.72) compared with the subgroup of patients with statin treatment (RR, 0.91; 95% CI, 0.84-0.99). Among other clinical outcomes, such as CVD, coronary heart mortality, and major adverse cardiac events, the associations were directionally similar but not significant... niacin was not associated with a reduced risk of cardiovascular morbidity and mortality for all patients, with similar results among the subgroup of statin-treated patients.

[Scott Adams]

13 hours ago, cookiesyum said:

The easiest way to remember the difference between the cholesterol types is

HDL;   H=healthy equals healthy (omega 3, 7, limit 6 & 9 MCFA'S =Medium Chain Fatty Acids. 3= coconut oil, 7= sunflower oil, avocado. The higher your HDL the healthier you are & less likely to experience strokes, clogged arteries Etc. You can even use cold expeller pressed coconut oil on your skin and that is the best kind of coconut oil to eat as well. You want your HDL much higher than your LDL, it will help you stay healthy.

 

LDL;    L=Lousy. Meat fats, processed fats.  The higher your LDL is the more likely you will have strokes, clogged artery is, heart disease, fatty liver.

 

Then there's lipids... they are the culprit to be blamed for many heart attacks and things like that they are very small round particles that transport fats. You can have a low overall cholesterol reading and most of it be healthy cholesterol and have a ton of lipids and there's nothing you can do to change the lipid count. High number of lipids is very dangerous.

 

I'm going on statins is extremely dangerous if you ask me it's just completely my opinion, because I have seen so many of my elderly friends bleed to death internally because of the statins. I mean you wouldn't take all the oil and grease out of your car or a motorcycle and then try to drive it that way would you? You see that's what statins do they remove all of your bodies fats and it doesn't matter whether it's healthy fats or a lousy fats. It removes all of them and then your body can't function properly. You have to have fats to keep your skin supple and to stay warm. Your body also needs fats to digest & process certain nutrients, amino acids & vitamins.   Your brain is composed of fat so is that something you really want to remove with a pill every morning and night?

  The thing about statins is that they also make the blood vessels and capillaries permeable. So this is how my friends who were on cardiac medication for a long time and statins ended up bleeding internally to death.

 

If you want to make sure that your heart is healthy, take odorless garlic at night and magnesium, vitamin K & calcium. 

 

 

Statins are a widely prescribed class of medications used to lower cholesterol levels and reduce the risk of cardiovascular events, such as heart attacks and strokes. Extensive scientific research, including large-scale randomized controlled trials, has demonstrated their efficacy and safety for most individuals. Statins work by inhibiting an enzyme involved in cholesterol production in the liver, thereby reducing low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, often referred to as "bad" cholesterol. Importantly, statins do not "remove all fats" from the body, as suggested in your post. They specifically target cholesterol synthesis and do not deplete essential fats, such as those required for brain function, hormone production, or nutrient absorption. The body still maintains its necessary fat reserves, including healthy fats, which are critical for physiological processes.

Regarding the claim that statins cause internal bleeding by making blood vessels permeable, this is not supported by scientific evidence. Statins are not known to increase the risk of internal bleeding. However, like all medications, they can have side effects, such as muscle pain or, in rare cases, liver enzyme abnormalities. The benefits of statins in reducing cardiovascular risk generally outweigh the risks for most patients, particularly those with a history of heart disease or high cholesterol.

The suggestion to use odorless garlic, magnesium, vitamin K, and calcium for heart health may have some merit, as these supplements can support cardiovascular function in certain contexts. For example, magnesium is involved in muscle and nerve function, while vitamin K plays a role in blood clotting and bone health. However, these should not replace evidence-based treatments like statins when prescribed by a healthcare provider. Always consult a medical professional before making changes to medication or starting new supplements, as individual health needs vary.