Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Rachel--24]

I've wondered the same thing about chocolate, because I often swell up from it, and I thought it was the soy lecithin, but who knows, maybe it's that sneaky msg hiding out under a different name like 'vanillin.' Sounds suspiciously like villain, doesn't it?

The chocolate I was eating doesnt have vanilla in it or soy lechitin....thats why I was buying it. Its Dagoba dark chocolate but they have other bars that *do* have vanilla or soy in them. So it states on the package that it may contain traces of milk and soy protein. I wasnt gonna worry about minute taces but maybe I should have cuz I was eating quite a bit of the chocolate. I dont think I have a problem with chocolate itself...usually that would present with a headache or something to that effect but I dont get headaches from chocolate.

I'm with Patti..there's always a possibility that vegetarian means soy. Often supplements will say "vegetarian capsule" and then claim to be free of allergens from soy, etc. but here's the thing: that wording is a bit suspect b/c it doesn't quite say free of all soy, just the allergenic part, and people have different opinions concerning which aspect is allergenic.

I've had bad reactions to 'vegetarian' supplements and thought that maybe hidden soy was the reason. Of course now I'm wondering if maybe it was actually hidden msg, but it definitely makes you think. Maybe too much. Haha This is like a second job! My mind's been jumping around latching on to theories like mad this weekend too. I think there's something in the air. Or maybe it just means that we're really close to solving all of this!!

That would be great if we could solve this!!!

I'm thinking theres probably alot of soy in things that I wasnt aware of....just like with corn...I never payed much attention. I dont really eat soy products because of my thyroid disease but in saying that I mean stuff like Tofu or veggie burgers...obvious soy products. I never tried to eliminate all soy so thats still a possibility. I also got really severe symptoms from Silk eggnog...I drank it for Thanksgiving cuz it was free of gluten, casein, egg and a bunch of other stuff....just not soy. Lately I figured it could have been the carageenan cuz of the msg factor.

What I'm thinking tonight is that something is causing my gut to stay leaky....its not gluten. I'm so good about avoiding gluten. The other big players for causing damage are casein, soy and corn. I think maybe all of these or a couple of them could still be causing damage and when it gets bad enough I start reacting to everything for a week or 2 because of the leaky gut...this would make me extremely vulnerable to more severe reactions from MSG.

I agree about the labeling....I dont trust any labels anymore. Even if it says no soy....there could very well be soy in there. We already know this to be true with MSG. So as long as they didn't put some actual soybeans in the product they call it soy-free but what if they put Vitamin E which was derived from soy? All the products containing xanthan gum are labeling their products as corn-free even though it was grown on corn and can still cause reactions. They just dont care....they want to sell their product and thats the bottom line.

Another question...what is in Canola oil? Is it soy? I dont think its corn because people with corn allergy seem to be able to have canola oil. I'm confused about that cuz I think there is actually a corn stalk on the front of the bottle of canola oil.

I had a REALLY bad reaction to canola oil and figured it was either from corn or some nasty antioxidant chemical they may have put in it. Never thought of soy....

Um, I have to make a confession. I have eaten gluten for the last 6 days.

WOW! I just almost fell out of my chair!

Its ok.....we can be honest here. I wont scold you

I can't speak for Matilda though!!

I have to go back and read the rest of your post now....I got stuck on that first sentance.

[Rachel--24]

ok...now that I've read the whole post I understand. I'm sorry about the death in your family.

Did gluten do ALL that to you? I've never done a challenge but after reading what you posted I dont think I'd want to now. Thats scary. I hope you recover quickly. I guess you wont be wondering about gluten anymore. I totally understand because I wonder about that alot too....I mean its not like an obvious thing where just giving up gluten cured me. I have lots of intolerances.

The interesting thing is there is so much similarity/cross-over between corn and MSG. So many corn derivatives are MSG - or vice versa, so many sources of MSG are corn derivatives. At least this is what I understand is true based on what I have read, and what Rachel has posted.

I was thinking about this earlier today...the lists are so similar. I dont know if it makes it easier or more confusing.

I guess if you avoid msg you're also pretty much avoiding corn and vice versa but there are still some that will get you....like gelatin.

[Rachel--24]

Does anyone else get really sick when they eat all the gluten-free foods??

As far as the make-up, I have been buying mine at the healthfood store the last several years. I'll look at the ingredients and see if they are safe. I use lotion, deoderant, lip balm, hair spray, soap, feminine products, etc. all from the health food store- of course it doesn't necessarily mean they are safe but the chemical load is definitely down to a minimum. I read on the MSG board that Aubrey Organics, Alba, and Nature's Gate products are all supposedly safe.

I get sick from all the gluten free foods. I might as well eat regular food...its cheaper.

I bought a bunch of Aubrey Organics stuff last summer cuz I was trying to reduce the chemicals. Funny thing is I got WORSE.....I mean I got worse in a big way. I believe I was getting reactions from the lotion and possibly the other products as well. The lotion had wheat germ oil in it (so did the conditioner) and thats actually what brought me to this message board. During the 2 weeks I was using those products I got extremely chemically sensitive....HELLO...I was trying to eliminate that problem not make it worse. Also I lost weight and was just having all kinds of problems. I looked at the ingredients again today and its all natural vegetable type ingredients and vitamins. On top of gluten there's probably soy and corn in there as well.

[Mango04]

I get sick from all the gluten free foods. I might as well eat regular food...its cheaper.

I bought a bunch of Aubrey Organics stuff last summer cuz I was trying to reduce the chemicals. Funny thing is I got WORSE.....I mean I got worse in a big way. I believe I was getting reactions from the lotion and possibly the other products as well. The lotion had wheat germ oil in it (so did the conditioner) and thats actually what brought me to this message board. During the 2 weeks I was using those products I got extremely chemically sensitive....HELLO...I was trying to eliminate that problem not make it worse. Also I lost weight and was just having all kinds of problems. I looked at the ingredients again today and its all natural vegetable type ingredients and vitamins. On top of gluten there's probably soy and corn in there as well.

There's hydrolized soy protein and corn in Aubrey Organics Shampoo.

[Rachel--24]

I stopped using BE lip gloss because it made my lips really sore - dry. burning and peeling. Rachel, in your present hyper-sensitive state isn't there something less risky you could use? Maybe vaseline? Maybe Neutrogena? I think as a huge company Neutrogena have at least got on top of knowing what's in their products. I don't usually like them but I do trust them , and the gloss is very good.

I'm sure there is less risky stuff but since I dont know exactly what my intolerances are....Its hard to know what to look for. Thats the biggest problem. Its not hard to find gluten free products...but corn and soy are another story.

There's hydrolized soy protein and corn in Aubrey Organics Shampoo.

OK...I was using that shampoo. So now that could be soy that was causing me trouble or MSG....it just never ends. I dont see how those organic products are any better than the regular stuff AND I paid like $10 for each item AND I couldnt keep using them cuz they got me sick!

So...I've narrowed it down to corn, soy and MSG. Its probably all of them...a chain reaction started by gluten.

[Calicat]

Julie,

You poor thing! I'm so sorry to hear about all that you've been going through. It's absolutely terrible to be so sick on top of losing someone in your family. I totally understand the emotional eating thing, too I lost my grandmother in March and I still haven't gotten myself all the way back to the only diet that works for me(ice cream crutch anyone?) It's like you get so worn down by all of the emotion, plus by feeling so sick that it's just too overwhelming to do the things that you know will help. Talk about ironic. I hope that you start to feel better soon. It's so unfair to be dealing with all of that. If you ever want to talk about it, I'm here.

I am going to have to find a way to eat and stick with it, I think it has to be for good. If I eat really well just meat, fruit, vegetables, I am fine, it's when I stray and start experimenting with different foods and add more things in that gets me in trouble.

Also, I have a lot of joint pain, but when my diet is really clean- food in the most natural state- the pain is almost nonexistant, so for me I believe there has to be a food connection (chemical, additive, allergen, etc.).

Sounds like we're going to be on a pretty similar and oh-so-exciting diet Way before my celiac dx, I was to the point where i only felt well when i ate the following: zucchini, spinach, broccoli, tomato, berries, apples, tea, fish. No joint problems at all and I wasn't puffy or exhausted or brain foggy. Then I expanded my diet and since then (even avoiding gluten and all the substitutes) I've been really sick. So I totally get where you're coming from. I think once you get used to it, it becomes like a habit and it's not so hard, but when it's been a while, it's hard to remember being okay with committing to such a restricted diet.

Does anyone else get really sick when they eat all the gluten-free foods?? The gluten-free foods have been making me as sick as a dog the last year........

I get much sicker from all gluten-free foods than I do from anything that contains wheat. Maybe it's to do with corn? I'm not sure at this point, but -- i'm sure this will sound completely terrible to most people -- if i was being forced to eat either a substitute product or something that contained wheat, i'd go for wheat b/c i wouldn't be half as sick.

Makes it a lot harder to stay off of wheat though, when there's nothing you can have in its place.

I think the msg/corn connection might just be the missing link for us though. My grand hope is that if we can just be super-clean for a while then maybe once in a blue moon we'll be able to tolerate something more normal. Hey, anything is possible and besides, i'm assuming that there was a time in all of our lives when we were able to eat normally, right? So why shouldn't we be able to heal to the point where we can be healthy again?! I think we're close to the answer, girls.

[Calicat]

What I'm thinking tonight is that something is causing my gut to stay leaky....its not gluten. I'm so good about avoiding gluten. The other big players for causing damage are casein, soy and corn. I think maybe all of these or a couple of them could still be causing damage and when it gets bad enough I start reacting to everything for a week or 2 because of the leaky gut...this would make me extremely vulnerable to more severe reactions from MSG.

Rachel,

I think we're on the same page. It makes sense that the only reason we'd still be having all of these reactions even being strictly gluten-free is if something else was also contributing to the leaky gut. So that means there's a lot of hope because we can still change things by eliminating all of these sneaky little troublemakers...and who knows how that'll impact us?! Maybe it's the holy grail of health!

Another question...what is in Canola oil? Is it soy? I dont think its corn because people with corn allergy seem to be able to have canola oil. I'm confused about that cuz I think there is actually a corn stalk on the front of the bottle of canola oil.

Canola oil comes from the rapeseed plant, which is a member of the turnip family so it isn't corn or soy. However, canola is one of the biggest GM crops, so it is often contaminated and I always reacted to it until I got a pure organic canola that specifically says it's non-Gm (yeah, in this case, i think organic actually made a difference). Hope that helps

[christine 25]

Rachel, about the lipgloss,

I react a lot to anything of red pigment, which includes lip glosses, chapstick, lip liners, also eyeliners, and I used bare minerals before too.

I figured it out, I am reacting to the metals, the iron oxides and mica, and sylica in the products.

I tested positive to metal allergys in the dr office I dont know if I mentioned that to you.

I think the iron oxides and metals are prob causing the lipgloss symptoms, not Msg. but who knows.

Christina

[christine 25]

I think most of the foods I react to are goitrogens and the other chemicals, and iodine, which is in eggs corn, most processed foods, msg , and the metals in makeup and they make the facial puffiness, joint pain cracking, headaches,,,, wrose

rape seed oil, or canola oil, is a goitrogen, and inhibits thyroid function.

Also Soy it really bad for thyroids, and gives me a lot of reactions

I think I have thyroid problems on the celluar level that wont show up on standard tests, because I still have these lingering symptoms even tho im clinically euthyroid. I still have antibodies and feel hypo in a sense.

I have the classic hypothyroid "puffy face" I ve been a great thyroid board lately I posted a thread about facial swelling and puffiness and wanted to survey how many people had it, I got over 13 replys and its only been a week! So I have discovered its very common, among thyroid folks espically after they are considered "normal" again according to blood tests, TSH etc. A lot of people have the facial swelling and hand swelling and chemical sensitivitys as I suspected, all realated to autoimmune thyroid disease most hashis but some with graves. Autoimmunity has a large part to play in this I would suspect.

I have gotten some good advice from that board...There are some very educated people on there that have actually taught me some new things from their experiences and its helping me.

I really have to make an effort to try and limit more of the goitrogens in my diet and see if that helps...

I dont dear wear blush, or lipstick, because I can feel my skin stretch and hurt. I tested it out a long time ago, I put makeup on one side of my face to see if I reacted and and one side without, the side with the makeup on swelled and got irritated, the side without was fine.

I dont eat soy of anykind, and havent for the past 2 years, when i tried soy milk it was a nightmare, hypo symptoms came back, when I eat anything with carragean in it, I react because its derived from seaweed and its really high in iodine, so I react to it intensly.

Also cheese and dairy, milk and eggs are the worst.

I cant really eat a lot meat, which makes the swelling worse, too much protein and salt in the diet attract water and cause edema for me, Ive noticed.

i do ok with beans and rice and cooked bell peppers, shredded lettuce, diced up tomoatos that are cooked, salads without dressing.

Ive been cutting way down on meat, no dairy, or avacados, no corn and I try to avoid potatos, and fruit and juices, no candy, or junk.... It seems to have helped. I almost do better when i eat foods with less vitamins and minerals, that are just plain and white. which is not necessarily healthy,,, And lately everyone says my skin looks better, and my bf says it looks less puffy. Because my close friends do notice a difference when its puffy and not puffy. I feel much better and I notice a difference too!

I cant really tolerate salt, cause all the salt in the US uses iodine and it makes me react. Even the normal no iodized salt I dont use because it makes me retain water. So I dont add salt to my foods.

Foods that give me a stomach ache and metallic, or bitter taste seem to be the ones causing the delayed ractions, I think those are they main culprates, i have to completely cut them out,,,,,and Im not buying organic anymore,,,, Organic doesnt alwyas mean its safer or better, and i have found I cant trust the peoples advice in health food stores, its like they are all culists in a strange religion ,,,and the supplements they sell are bogus and some no better and basically are drugs. With the exception of a few, like some vitamins. but I would never buy somthing from a health food store again, thats how I got into trouble in the first place.

Traceminerals,,,, mineral drops contain highly concentrated Halogenated compounds (of chlorine, fluoride, and bromine) which is what I was taking when it messed up my thyroid and then all this started.

Just FYI aside,,,,So anyone dont buy colloidal minerals, or primal defence or anything with "organic eath" colloidal, or ionic minerals or cell food,,,,its a bunch of natural "toxic chemicals"

I cant believe they sell this stuff on the shelves!!!!

Christina

[miamia]

Rachel,

I think we're on the same page. It makes sense that the only reason we'd still be having all of these reactions even being strictly gluten-free is if something else was also contributing to the leaky gut. So that means there's a lot of hope because we can still change things by eliminating all of these sneaky little troublemakers...and who knows how that'll impact us?! Maybe it's the holy grail of health!

Canola oil comes from the rapeseed plant, which is a member of the turnip family so it isn't corn or soy. However, canola is one of the biggest GM crops, so it is often contaminated and I always reacted to it until I got a pure organic canola that specifically says it's non-Gm (yeah, in this case, i think organic actually made a difference). Hope that helps

Rachel and calicat-

you guys both sound so simialr to me and I have been reading all your posts but npt answering lately because I have just been so overwhelmed- the corn was one thing but once Is tarted researching the msg factor I think I went into overdrive and just lost it. I decided basically that everything is going to cause a reaction right now because my leaky gut is so bad but the good news is I has an intestanal permiability test redone and althoiught my malabsorbtion has not improved my leaky gut has a little- still very far from normal though. My plan now is to really try to heal my gut. I cut out most of my supplements and am just taking L- glutamine( rachel I know you reacted bad to this - what kind did you take itws one of the only things that I seem to be alright with. ) I also take a digestive enzyme- Absorb aid- a probiotic,and triphala (for bathroom issues. ) The new things I am going to try are cocunut oil- I have done alot f research and it is really great for candida, leaky gut and overall health- plus eliminates the issues of which oil is safe. I do ok with canola oi. Vegetable oil is pure soy oil so stay away from that!!

The other things I am going to start are neuro biofeedback - becaus eI do so bad with anything I have to ingest - this helps to balance out neurological levels with creates a balance in your body and all of these issues we suffer from are from inbalances. I am going to also in conjustion with try this thing called glco nutritionals. It sounds like an interesting option and I feel like I have tried everything else so its worth a go. Again it supposedly helps to create balance and improve cell to cell communication and get your body healed. I think the key for me right now is to heal. I've tried to avoid just about everything and it dosen't seem to do much. It helps me get by but I really am sick of just getting by especially since a week dose't go by where I don't get a reaction to something.

Oh calicat I also get a worse reaction to gluten free foods than wheat. And I often think god I used to eat so normal there has to be a way to get back there!!!!!!

Miami

[Rachel--24]

Rachel, about the lipgloss,

I react a lot to anything of red pigment, which includes lip glosses, chapstick, lip liners, also eyeliners, and I used bare minerals before too.

I was using Bare Escentuals lipgloss....it wasnt colored at all...just clear. The colored lipstick I use doesnt seem to cause any burning or tingling. The make-up I put on my face doesnt bother my skin or cause it to become more puffy. My face is the same on the days I dont wear any make-up at all but I had reactions when the make-up has gotten into my mouth via crying or sweating.

I think the iron oxides and metals are prob causing the lipgloss symptoms, not Msg. but who knows.

Christina

As far as I know there is no MSG in the lipgloss. So its not that but I dont think its metals either since I get the same reaction from food.

[Rachel--24]

I think most of the foods I react to are goitrogens and the other chemicals, and iodine, which is in eggs corn, most processed foods, msg , and the metals in makeup and they make the facial puffiness, joint pain cracking, headaches,,,, wrose

rape seed oil, or canola oil, is a goitrogen, and inhibits thyroid function.

Also Soy it really bad for thyroids, and gives me a lot of reactions

Goitrogens are mainly from the cabbage/broccolli family...also soy. They can affect your thyroid if taken in excess over a period of time. Goitergens dont cause immediate reactions to your thyroid when eaten. If you get an immediate reaction to foods like I do...its not thyroid related. I lost all the puffiness in my face last summer when I ate only veggies fish and meat but it came back with the processed foods. My thyroid levels have been stable for almost 3 years now so its not thyroid for me.

Most of the foods you listed having reactions to a few pages back are not goitergens so if you get reactions like swelling....its probably more of an immune response and not a thyroid problem.

[Guest BERNESES]

I've been following this thread (as much as possible) and I am amzed by all your strength and perseverance. I don't know if you guys have discussed this yet (was down for a few days- surgery) but Multiple Chemical sensitivities Syndrome might be something to explore. I've often wwondered if I have it because I react VERY strongly to certain things- especially medications etc. Here's a link to an article on it by American academy of Physicians and it's amazing how "minute", relatively speaking, the triggers can be- nailpolish remover, laundry dtergent etc.

Open Original Shared Link

I hope this helps and if you've aalready discussed it, I apologize. I read most of the thread but wasn't able to read all. Hugs, Beverly

[jerseyangel]

I love this thread--I have so much in common with you all! I believe, truly, that I have a leaky gut. When I went gluten-free last June, I felt better than I had in years--for about 3 months. Then it seems that everything started to bother me. I have been reading everything I could get my hands on about lectins, grain intolerance, and food intolerance in general. Over the winter, my reflux became so bad that I agreed to go on Prevacid. That caused me terrible side effects--even ones that were not warned about on their package. I got vertigo--was bumping into walls, not to mention the GI effects. I slowly came to realize that all grains--rice, corn, all of them were making me sick--or at the very least, keeping me from healing further. As I read about lectins further, I came to know that all of them--soy, peanuts, and beans of all kinds, including string beans that I was eating almost every day were contributing to my illness. So far, thank God, I can still eat potatoes. These past 2 weeks, I've been actually feeling much better. I eat only meat, chicken. fruit, veggies, (both peeled), Vance's Dari Free, and olive oil. Yesterday, I went shopping and just shopped around the perimeter of the store--that's it! It is amazing! As far as the Bare Escentuals, I still use the dry face minerals. I use nothing at all on my lips except Badger Balm. I have not even used my Neutrogena Gloss that was ok for me. I know they (BE) have given out conflicting information concerning gluten--I received an email from them which I posted on the board, and then I find out that some of that info is either outdated fast, or not entirely true. Oh--I've been using Shikai Shampoo and Conditioner for the last month or so. It's great--no SLS or gluten--and suds up like "real" shampoo! Thank you all--this is all such great info and support! It's good to know that gluten-free is not enough for others, too

[dlp252]

Why??? Are you serious?

Matilda

Unfortunately, yes I'm serious. I'm not normally too much of an emotional eater, but in the last month or so I've been stress eating and can't seem to get a hold of myself. This was the first time I tried any gluten since I went gluten-free at the beginning of November. I was having a particularly bad day and the darned things were sitting in front of me while I heated up my lunch. I think I really just wanted to see what my reaction would be and it kind of fit a need I had at that particular moment. I've definitely learned that although my reaction isn't immediate it is strong enough to take it seriously from now on. My whole system has been off since then...much more congested, diarrhea, stomach pains.

As far as Krispy Creme Donuts go - I'm trying hard to keep my gob shut.

You can always tell me what you think, lol. It was a really dumb thing to do!

Um, I have to make a confession. I have eaten gluten for the last 6 days.

I am going to have to find a way to eat and stick with it, I think it has to be for good. If I eat really well just meat, fruit, vegetables, I am fine, it's when I stray and start experimenting with different foods and add more things in that gets me in trouble.

Does anyone else get really sick when they eat all the gluten-free foods??

You too huh. The only times in the last 4-5 years I've felt well and relatively free of symptoms were when I was eating a really clean diet, with no processed foods of any kind. When I started low carb about 5 years ago, I started out clean, but as soon as I added some of the low carb processed foods, I got sick. I went clean again and it all cleared up (some of those foods I cut out had gluten and casein in them too). The diet was very strict to me at that time so after 3 months I added back 100% whole wheat tortillas (low carb), sure enough I got sick. My allergist and I finally decided I should try an anti-candida, anti-yeast low carb rotation diet. I followed that for 6 months and wasn't sick at all. Sure enough I started adding back a few things and got sick. That's what finally made it click that it might be gluten or some other intolerance. My symtoms improved from going gluten free and improved more after cutting out casein a month later after my Enterolab results came back...but there are still nagging things like dizziness and lightheadedness, shakiness, nausea, diarrhea, GERD, and most recently a horrible unrelenting hunger. All of these nagging symptoms have gotten worse when I started eating the gluten-free foods, especially sweets. That is what is making me think I may have a blood sugar issue in addition to all the other intolerances.

[Green12]

OMgosh, I missed out on so much conversation last night!

I didn't mean to shock you all with my confession about my gluten fest. As grim as my symptoms may sound, I will recover quickly. As long as I just eat really clean everything calms way down in about 4 or 5 days, and then continually everyday thereafter.

I still am so confused though because yes I do have obvious symptoms from eating the gluten, but it hasn't nearly been as bad as a result as when I eat all the packaged gluten-free products. My bowels have been completely regular through the week (before I would have chronic C). I did feel worse at night but by the time I would wake up in the morning I would actually feel a little better (only the swelling remained). That's what makes me think I don't have celiac, because a celiac just has to take out gluten and they are better, correct? I took out gluten for a year or longer (maybe two?) and I am looking back on my gluten-free period and I was sicker than I was when I was eating wheat. But I convinced myself as long as I didn't eat gluten everything will eventually turn around, so I kept buying all the gluten free foods and experimenting with them. Obviously there has to be something else to it than gluten for me. Oh, and Rachel, I wasn't just eating gluten for the last 6 days, I was having a lot of other stuff with it, so it really wasn't an isolated gluten challenge.

It wasn't until I started clearing the corn out and then adding it back in to do a challenge that I realized all of these gluten-free products were making me sick. Like we talked about before, the cleaner your system gets the more clear and obvious the reaction when you add it back in. It wasn't obvious to me while I was eating them day in and day out. Also my food/substance allergies seem to have a cumulative type effect, so for example during the last 6 days of eating gluten I didn't feel the full force of my symptoms until after 2 or 3 days of continually ingesting the gluten. I do have some initial symptoms, but they increase and become more involved as I eat more of the offending substance (sorry if that is so confusing) Allergies are confusing!

Berneses- thanks for checking in, and thanks for the informative link. I hope you are recovering nicely from your surgery

jersey, thanks for all your information too. When you mentioned the reflux there is lots of information I came across at the MSG boards about reflux- that MSG is directly responsible for irritating the tissue/muscle that causes reflux. I found that interesting since I have battled with reflux after going gluten-free and after I introduced all of this gluten-free packaged food into my diet. I'm not at all saying that this is the sole cause, but just that it is an interesting connection.

Christine, you have so many challenges, bless your heart. Auto-Immune illnesses seem to be like a big scattered puzzle, trying to find what piece fits where. I at one time took the Primal Defense you referred to, if it is the same product I am thinking of from Jordan Rubin's company, the chrohns guy? I took a lot of his stuff and it just made me worse. I agree there is a lot to look out for, just because they are natural supplements doesn't mean that they are good for us. I haven't been taking any supplements for over about a week and I actually notice a difference. If I can just figure out a stable diet to stick with I feel like it will be smooth sailing from there. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about eating a whole foods diet, and getting nutrition from the food itself. I do wish you luck in finding some answers and figuring it all out.

Calicat, you are good people. It was the dreaded Alzheimers so you know where I am on that. I will be fine, but a million thanks for support. Rachel, thanks for the condolences as well.

So, it's back to the drawing board to figure this all out

The soy thing Rachel, isn't MSG in everything soy? And a word about canola oil, I remember on the Avoiding Corn board someone saying that canola oil can be a corn cross-reactive substance. I also had a brochure about germ warfare being made from the rapeseed oil plant (where canola oil comes from) I can't remember if it was mustard gas or what. But nice to know canola oil is similar to a purposely harmful poison, and canola is in everything too.

It seems to always come back to corn/MSG. It's literally the 6 degrees of separation game but not with Bacon, with corn and MSG!!!

[Rachel--24]

Julie,

As far as getting worse on the gluten free foods....did you actually get worse or did your symptoms just become more noticeable?

For me I was way worse before cutting out gluten...I stayed on a clean diet for four months but when I started adding in the gluten-free foods my symtoms slowly began returning. Its a cummulative effect...a build-up...like you described. I didnt contnue eating the gluten-free processed foods once I sensed trouble so I never got to the point that I was while on gluten but I'm pretty sure it would have led to that had I continued.

What I'm thinking is that other intolerances were present all along because of the leaky gut I developed while consuming gluten. I developed other intolerances such as the corn and soy and because I wasnt aware of them or avoiding them the damage never healed. I've read alot about dairy, soy and corn causing damage to the intestinal lining....not sure about flattened villi but I've read that too with regards to dairy and soy.

I think the symptoms become more clear once the main offender is removed and our bodies are more sensitive. My reactions are noticeable now whereas before ever starting any diet I couldnt even really tell that my illness was even food related. I was just really sick everyday.

When I took my Enterolab test I'd already been on my clean diet for 4 months but taking lots of supplements...the results were positive but my antigliadin numbers werent sky high or anything. I've seen much higher numbers with no malabsorption present....which would indicate minimal or no damage. I, on the other hand had almost severe malabsorption....indicating significant damage but I dont believe it was gluten at that point. *something* was causing damage still....when I took the test I was having loose stools and lots of chemical sensitivities....it was when I was using the Aubrey Organics products and got sick. I also had tried some baking for the first time in the 4 months I ate clean food. I used no dairy or soy that I'm aware of...I did use baking powder and vanilla extract....so there would have been corn. I reacted severely.

The other thing is that the doctor I see, who specializes in gluten intolerance says that alot of us get parasitic infections from the damage caused in the intestinal lining while we were eating gluten. The parasites then keep the cycle of food intolrance and leaky gut going even after we've gone gluten-free. I'm being retested for infections this week. Have any of you gotten tested for that? The test consists of different samples usually over a 4 day period.

[Rachel--24]

I don't know if you guys have discussed this yet (was down for a few days- surgery) but Multiple Chemical sensitivities Syndrome might be something to explore. I've often wwondered if I have it because I react VERY strongly to certain things- especially medications etc. Here's a link to an article on it by American academy of Physicians and it's amazing how "minute", relatively speaking, the triggers can be- nailpolish remover, laundry dtergent etc.

Thanks for the link Beverly,

I do have multiple chemical sensitivities...the doctors I've seen say its caused by leaky gut in my case....or possibly an infection. They also looked into Mercury toxicity....nothing has been found at this point as far as heavy metal toxicity or parasitic infections or autoimmune problems. Everything has come back normal. The most recent was the heavy metal toxicity test. My doctor says he often sees high numbers due to some people exposing themselves to lead or other hazordous materials over a period of years. My numbers werent high and I wasnt exposed to chemicals or metals in high amounts. He said he wouldnt treat me for that based on my numbers coming back normal....he believes the sensitivities are coming from leaky gut.

I dont know if you recall but I had that c-diff overgrowth awhile back which I took antibiotics for. I still need to retest to see if the infection is gone or not...I've just been lagging on getting the test done. They said that could still be contributing to this as well...if its not gone.

My sensitivity to chemicals changes from day to day....according to how I eat mainly. Some days I have high tolerance and other days I may have almost no tolerance.

[Rachel--24]

Autoimmunity has a large part to play in this I would suspect.

Autoimmunity has everything to do with it in my opinion. Gluten Intolerance is autoimmune.....its not an allergy....Celiac is an autoimmune Disease. If you have a response to gluten whether your Celiac or not.....its an autoimmune thing. Its believed to be a huge factor in other autoimmune diseases such as thyroid and diabetes.

When gluten leaks into the bloodstream the immune system attacks it....whever it is in the body. The attack causes blunted villi in Celiac. In other people it can cause damage to other areas. If the damage is occurring in the joints it can lead to Rheumatoid Athritis. The immune system starts mistaking our own tissue for gluten and it can then start attacking the thyroid gland. This is why so many people with gluten intolerance also have thyroid disease or at least one other autoimmune disease.

Have you ever read Dangerous Grains? Its an excellent book and explains very well how gluten leads to autoimmune diseases.

I believe that many of the people with thyroid disease who still suffer symptoms regardless of having normal TSH are also gluten intolerant but just dont know it. The 2 diseases are so commonly linked.

[Rachel--24]

when I eat anything with carragean in it, I react because its derived from seaweed and its really high in iodine, so I react to it intensly.

It could be MSG you're reacting to. Carageenan contains MSG and its on the list of things to avoid. Glutamate was originally discovered in seaweed and thats where MSG came from....they took the glutamate in its natural state from the seaweed and made MSG as we know it today. The "not so natural substance".

Here is something about seaweed, MSG and Hypothyroid.

Glutamates are metal compounds of glutamic acid. Glutamic acid is one of the amino acids found in proteins. Glutamates are found naturally abundance in sea weeds. Glutamates were isolated from sea weed by a Japanese scientist. Commercial productions usually are performed by hydrolyzing grain or soy protein using enzyme or hydrochloric acid.

Over-consumption of food with high content of glutamates may result in overproduction of δ-amino acid. δ-amino acid may inhibit the secretion of thyroid stimulating hormone from the pituitary glands and causes the under production of thyroid hormone. The under production of thyroid hormone causes the loss of calcium and phosphate and causes growth retardation and may also cause obesity.

There are studies that show effects of glutamate on lab animals:

1. damage in retinas of the eyes

2. obesity in baby animals if glutamate was included in the diet of the nursing mother animals

3. all small chickens died in 19 days after being fed feed containing 2.6% monosodium glutamates. All chickens in the controlled group survived.

More info. on seaweed

If you're eating seaweed, that's not a problem for your health; in fact seaweed is very good for you and it's now shown to actually prevent and even help treat cancer. But if you take MSG out of seaweed or you synthesize MSG and put it into a highly concentrated form, then it functions as a neurotoxin -- that's why it's called an excitotoxin by Dr. Russell Blaylock, who is perhaps the world's foremost authority on MSG and other excitotoxins such as aspartame.

So basically if your getting reactions from carageenan that would more likely be a reaction to MSG rather than seaweed itself. Carageenan is just another label for MSG. When you consume carageenan you're not really consuming seaweed in its natural state....you're consuming MSG.

[Rachel--24]

Well tomorrow I'm gonna take this test so maybe I'll get some type of answers from it re: the soy and corn.

Open Original Shared Link

I've already had the gluten and cow's milk tested via Enterolab...it was also IgA. I was negative for dairy in that test so we'll see what happens with this one. I've been gluten-free for a year so that should be negative? I'm not sure with this type of test. I'm not really too concerned about the gluten results though since I was already positive last year. It hasnt been that long since I've had no corn, dairy, or soy though....and I've eaten tons of rice so we'll see what happens. That would really be something if it was positive for corn and soy though.

[Green12]

Julie,

As far as getting worse on the gluten free foods....did you actually get worse or did your symptoms just become more noticeable?

I don't know...I really don't seem to know anything anymore.

I find myself more confused than ever. I only had IgG and IgE tests to look into my food allergies. From what I understand these are not 'classic' allergy tests, only leaky gut tests, so I was under the impression it might be a case of following a permenant rotation diet or later introducing an offender to see if it could be tolerated- not a forever allergy. I also did a lot of allergy testing with kinisiology, NAET as I had mentioned before, and with the bio-scan machines- and I would go back and forth with foods- allergic/not allergic- which I am not so sure any of that can be relied on as accurate. I am trying so hard to clear all of my past experiences out of my head and just focus on listening to my body and go in the direction it leads me, but I don't know if I am doing such a bang up job at that either. I keep second guessing myself. If I can't clear out all the allergens and get past all the reactivity, I don't think I can truly get to the root of the problem and heal.

You gave me lots to ponder.

The good news is I haven't had any wheat or gluten today. That was probably a big lapse in judgement on my part to ingest it, and to keep ingesting it. I was just so frustrated and to the point where it made sense if I couldn't handle the substitutes maybe I would be better off with the real thing.

As far as the parasite infections, I have been on one kind of parasite cleanse or another this entire 14 years and nothing ever changed for me. It has been similar to the candida phenomenon, as well as other yeasts, fungi, etc- basically disbiosis, that situation never seems to improve for me. So obviously I am not getting it right yet.

dlp, so sorry you have had a lot of stress the last month. I totally understand the emotional/stress eating. It's easy to make mistakes and none of us are perfect, we're just human. Just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again! No biggie.

I definitely have a big blood sugar imabalance too. I'm not really a fan of low-carb, but that is truly just my personal stand on it. I feel the processed packaged stuff is the villain and not the carbs, at least the natural carbs. I find what works for me is to have balanced meals, good sources of protein with a portion of carbohydrate (brown rice, legumes, potatoes, etc.) with lots of vegetables and fruits to round it out and I am fine. It's when I eat the processed packaged stuff that my body gets wacky, blood sugar wise and everything esle. And things definitely get even wackier with the gluten free processed packaged stuff. I was looking at some of the ingredient lists and there are all these alternative grain flours that have been so stripped down and processed. I think I am just destined to eat as natural and pure as I possibly can because my system just doesn't seem to be able to adapt to eating these things. I also think for the time being I can't handle grains, but I seem to be fine with starchy vegetables (winter squashes, potatoes) and some legumes.

Well tomorrow I'm gonna take this test so maybe I'll get some type of answers from it re: the soy and corn.

Open Original Shared Link

I've already had the gluten and cow's milk tested via Enterolab...it was also IgA. I was negative for dairy in that test so we'll see what happens with this one. I've been gluten-free for a year so that should be negative? I'm not sure with this type of test. I'm not really too concerned about the gluten results though since I was already positive last year. It hasnt been that long since I've had no corn, dairy, or soy though....and I've eaten tons of rice so we'll see what happens. That would really be something if it was positive for corn and soy though.

Good luck with your test Rachel. Let us know how it goes, I'll be anxious to hear

[Rachel--24]

I only had IgG and IgE tests to look into my food allergies. From what I understand these are not 'classic' allergy tests, only leaky gut tests, so I was under the impression it might be a case of following a permenant rotation diet or later introducing an offender to see if it could be tolerated- not a forever allergy.

Anything IgE you were tested for would be a "true" allergy.

Anything IgG would be more typical of leaky gut and can be reversed with rotation diet and/or healing of the leaky gut

I definitely have a big blood sugar imabalance too. I'm not really a fan of low-carb, but that is truly just my personal stand on it. I feel the processed packaged stuff is the villain and not the carbs, at least the natural carbs. I find what works for me is to have balanced meals, good sources of protein with a portion of carbohydrate (brown rice, legumes, potatoes, etc.) with lots of vegetables and fruits to round it out and I am fine. It's when I eat the processed packaged stuff that my body gets wacky, blood sugar wise and everything esle.

I have the same problem....I'm fine on a clean diet but when I first went gluten-free and started eating stuff like snickers bars and other processed foods....I started feeling shaky and extremely hungry all the time. I felt like I might pass out if I didnt eat something sweet right then and there.

It doesnt necessarily have to be the specialty gluten-free foods that do this to me though. Just your normal mainstream gluten-free foods can cause it as well.

[Green12]

Anything IgE you were tested for would be a "true" allergy.

Anything IgG would be more typical of leaky gut and can be reversed with rotation diet and/or healing of the leaky gut

oh kripes! The test results I have don't distinguish between what was IgE or IgG. They are all lumped together. I went to the website of the lab to see if I could get information and no such luck. So I could actually have proof of a true allergy,a forever allergy, right at my finger tips? Maybe I will call them tomorrow. Thanks for this information Rachel.

[Calicat]

Miami and JerseyAngel,

I can't believe how many of us are in a similar situation. I figure since we're all working together and putting out different thoughts and theories, we can't help but have a breakthrough! It's interesting to me that some of us react even worse to the gluten-free stuff than to wheat. It's kind of comforting b/c it made me feel crazy when everyone i asked in the real world kept acting like my reactions were impossible. I hope that the neuro biofeedback glco nutritionals work for you, Miami! Let us know how it's going

I don't know if you guys have discussed this yet (was down for a few days- surgery) but Multiple Chemical sensitivities Syndrome might be something to explore.

Open Original Shared Link

Berneses,

Thanks for the encouragement and the link...I haven't checked into MCS yet, but that's my next step. I hope you're feeling better from your surgery.

The only times in the last 4-5 years I've felt well and relatively free of symptoms were when I was eating a really clean diet, with no processed foods of any kind. Sure enough I started adding back a few things and got sick. All of these nagging symptoms have gotten worse when I started eating the gluten-free foods, especially sweets. That is what is making me think I may have a blood sugar issue in addition to all the other intolerances.

I definitely have a big blood sugar imabalance too. I think I am just destined to eat as natural and pure as I possibly can because my system just doesn't seem to be able to adapt to eating these things.

Dlp and Julie,

I've been wondering about blood sugar a lot lately too. I also get shaky and have some of the other symptoms you mentioned. The best I ever felt was when I was eating a very pure diet (fruits, veggies, fish, and a little yogurt) and avoiding all sugar except for the occasional weekend indulgence of sugar in my tea. Of course, getting off of the sugar took quite a bit of willpower the first time so I'm not looking forward to the process, but more and more I'm thinking it'd be worth the effort if it could make such a difference.

my food/substance allergies seem to have a cumulative type effect, so for example during the last 6 days of eating gluten I didn't feel the full force of my symptoms until after 2 or 3 days of continually ingesting the gluten. I do have some initial symptoms, but they increase and become more involved as I eat more of the offending substance

I also had a brochure about germ warfare being made from the rapeseed oil plant (where canola oil comes from) I can't remember if it was mustard gas or what. But nice to know canola oil is similar to a purposely harmful poison, and canola is in everything too.

It seems to always come back to corn/MSG. It's literally the 6 degrees of separation game but not with Bacon, with corn and MSG!!!

Julie,

Congratulations on not eating gluten today! I always think the first few days going back off of anything are the hardest. (Tomorrow's my first day off of dairy again). I also seem to have a cumulative effect with certain foods, like diary, I'm now thinking. But my feeling is that if it is cumulative, either once in a while it might be okay to have a taste, assuming you don't go crazy like I did with dairy , or that it might be possible to tolerate it in rotation once we're healed.

Thanks for the corn info, I agree with you, everything seems to come back to corn or msg now. As insidious as it is, I am *so* hoping that this is it...

I don't know a lot about the blood tests for allergies, only what my own experience with them has been so I don't mean to make this any more confusing. I had a ton of allergy tests done a while back and they weren't accurate. I don't know if they were IgG or IgE or both, but they said I was allergic to almost everything...except the things that I am actually allergic to. I don't really think that there is a comprehensive test that's 100% accurate short of eliminating the possible offender and then reintroducing it if you aren't certain. In my personal experience, anyway, allergy tests don't seem to be conclusive. Hope that doesn't make it even murkier