Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Rachel--24]

Ok...the rotten egg lotion is NOT gonna work for me. Its not so much that I have to walk around smelling like sewer...that I can totally handle.

What I CANT handle is the freakin glutathione making my head swell up and making me feel like crap.

Theres just no way my body can handle the glutathione right now. My sulfur metabolism is all messed up and I dont think I can convert sulfur to sulfate. I did much better with the IV DMPS and no glutathione.

I took my bloodtest Monday...probably get the results sometime next week. I'm thinking that copper toxicity is a strong possibility.

I really have to figure out why my sulfation pathway is down. Copper toxicity could be a reason for molybdenum deficiency and that would most likely inhibit the sulfur oxidase enzyme. If that were to happen I wouldnt be able to convert sulfur to sulfate....and with no available sulfate my PST enzyme would be inhibited as well. I would also develop leaky gut as a result of sulfate deficiency.

So thats why I'm looking at copper.

Also...I read this from Dr. K.

Even though DMPS has a high affinity for mercury, the highest affinity appears to be for copper and zinc, which are the metals that appear first in high levels in the urine.

The "normal" urine challenge test will show high copper levels and low manganese levels. I consider someone only copper toxic if his/her level is more than fourfold the upper limit of the reference range.

If the patient has a high body burden of these metals, no mercury comes out with the first test. Only subsequent DMPS tests will show the mercury. As long as there is a high body burden of mercury, virtually none of the other heavy metals are coming out.

Only as the mercury level starts to drop, does the lead, nickel, silver, cadmium, and so on appear in the urine. This is important to understand: As different heavy metals appear in the urine test at different times, so do the patient's symptoms change while going through the detox.

When he says "fourfold the upper limit"....does that mean the same as 4 x the normal limit??

Maybe its a German thing?? I dunno but I'm not familiar with fourfold?

I already know that copper should be elevated in the urine challenge but at what point does it exceed what is considered normal?

After I read this I looked back at my results. The first challenge my copper was about double the normal range....it would have been much higher had I been on a higher dose of DMPS...but for that initial challenge I only took a baby dose (1cc). Small amounts of all other metals are coming out...but nothing significant....and all within reference range.

At the second challenge I was up to 3cc's of DMPS (still not a full dose) and the copper was near 4x the normal range....but not quite. Again...all metals are coming out but only in small amounts.

My third challenge had the copper over 4 x the normal range and I'm still only on 3cc's of DMPS (a full dose being 5 cc's). On this test all other metals are still picked up...but barely. Everthing else is coming out less...while the copper is coming out more.

If I had been getting my mineral IV's without copper I'm guessing that at some point the copper would have come down and the other metals (esp. mercury) would have started coming out more than what we were seeing. I think the high levels of copper may have kept the DMPS from getting to the mercury.

I'm gonna ask Amy about this possibility.

If I can bring copper down and get some of the other minerals back in...especially molybdenum for the sulfur oxidase enzyme...I think I will have better luck with getting the mercury to come out.

Also while I was having the galvanic recation between the gold crowns and amalgams all of the various metals would have been leached from both the crowns and the fillings. I believe the gold crowns do contain copper.

If my blood test shows high copper....and maybe even if it doesnt....I think I'm going to go back on the DMPS IV's and have it work on the copper. I'll replace other minerals and this time leave the copper out.

I felt improvement when I started with the DMPS....it was only when I started getting increased amounts of minerals (copper included) that I stopped noticing improvement.

I dont believe that my body was utilizing all that copper....it was probably all "unbound" copper that had nowhere to go. I think that the majority of the DMPS was used up for collecting all that loose copper.

Anyways it was definately over 4x the upper normal range. The reference range is (.01 - .09)....my last results had copper at .44 and the test prior to that it was .33.

According to what Dr. K. said...would that be considered copper toxicity?

[CarlaB]

Oh . .. ..and I quit smoking yesterday.

I'm only at 19hrs right now, but it's been 20 YEARS since I went that long w/out a cig. Most of the 7000+ days I rarely went an hour w/out.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Carla, I am wondering if it is possible to expel parasites after treatments, maybe more so after multiple treatments?? Isn't this your second (or is it even your 3rd) round in a short amount of time?

Well, the first treatment I did was last fall. I was still expelling parasites a few days after treatment. I waited over 3 months before the next treatment, which was completed a few weeks ago. That treatment I saw something only at the very beginning.

So, I don't think it's the Humaworm.

But, Bartonella causes me significant GI distress. Within a couple days of starting the Levaquin the GI problems started going away again. It makes me wonder if getting rid of that big parasite a while back may have been the combination of the Humaworm and Levaquin. Not that Levaquin works on parasites, but maybe getting rid of the bart made me eliminate them.

Anyway, the whole thing is disgusting .... if you knew what a neatnik I was, you'd find it as funny as hubby does, LOL.

[dlp252]

Thanks Rachel...it's good to be back among the living, lol!

I had heard the same thing and i cant remember which ones they were either lol. That is why i thought i would ask here lol. I will do an search on this thread and see what i come up with, i just hate doing searches when it has an 3 letter word lol

I picked the Wispure because it was highly rated (at the time I was looking) by Consumer Reports. That was one of two that they said actually did what it was supposed to, lol. I can't remember what the other one was, but it was more expensive than the one I bought, BUT it didn't have a HEPA filter, so in the end I wish I got that one, lol. I wish I could remember the name of it...I think it was Friedrich.

[CarlaB]

So, Donna, what was it, some kind of wicked cold, or what?

Rachel, makes sense what you're saying about the copper.

[Green12]

Ok...the rotten egg lotion is NOT gonna work for me. Its not so much that I have to walk around smelling like sewer...that I can totally handle.

What I CANT handle is the freakin glutathione making my head swell up and making me feel like crap.

Theres just no way my body can handle the glutathione right now. My sulfur metabolism is all messed up and I dont think I can convert sulfur to sulfate. I did much better with the IV DMPS and no glutathione.

When he says "fourfold the upper limit"....does that mean the same as 4 x the normal limit??

Maybe its a German thing?? I dunno but I'm not familiar with fourfold?

According to what Dr. K. said...would that be considered copper toxicity?

Rachel, I am so sorry you started to have symptoms with the glutathione cream and that you won't be able to continue with it at this time

I would assume he means 4 times the amount when he says "fourfold". I am not so sure I understand how copper toxicity is measured, I thought you mentioned before the urine test doesn't give an accurate measurement. Are all these numbers you are looking at from your urine challenges?

I hope you get some clues from your blood test results and I am sure you and Amy will put your heads together and come up with what is best to do next.

I just know you will get to the bottom of it, it may take trying several different things and approaching it from all different angles, but I know you will find that key that is going to unlock all of this for you

[dlp252]

So, Donna, what was it, some kind of wicked cold, or what?

It was some kind of wicked cold/flu hybrid, lol. I had fever and chills, head congestion, but hardly sneezed, extreme exhaustion, ear pain (thought it was going to be an ear infection at one point) and blockage (could hear popping when I swallowed, etc), etc. etc. What scared me was that I didn't want to eat....I NEVER get like that, lol.

I barely coughed, but when I did it was wicked and productive, but my lungs were clear (not sure how THAT is possible, lol)

It started with a really, really bad sore throat, which I thought was going to be strep, but it went away in a couple of days. I saw signs of sinus infection, but my doctor didn't think it was a sinus infection. So, yeah, some kind of evil hybrid that lasted a whole two weeks.

I'm still feeling the effects: extreme exhaustion and some congestion, runny nose and cough.

[AndreaB]

I would assume he means 4 times the amount when he says "fourfold".

That's what I'm thinking too. If two of us think the same we can't be wrong can we?

Rachel,

Sorry about the cream too. I will be curious as to what you and Amy come up with. Has she done testing for copper at all?

I don't know how people get copper toxic but what you posted makes alot of sense.

[CarlaB]

Wow, Donna, sounds HORRIBLE! Can I say, I'm glad we're internet friends so I couldn't catch THAT from you!! Glad you're feeling better.

My cognitive issues are flaring horribly on the Levaquin ..... can't wait till this herx passes .... lots of fatigue, too.

[AndreaB]

Donna,

Hope this thing is on it's way out for good! What an awful thing to go through.

[Guest tamedandfoxed]

Rachel and folks worried about my tooths:

I am not anywhere near actually planning for removing the metal. I'm in the curious and want to know more stage. But yes, I am still nursing other things and definitely don't need to feel worse!

I'm sure i will ask questions in about a year or so. I think it just came up yesterday cuz i went to the dentist and was like "hmmm. maybe i should find out more!"

But yes, No worries! I will not enter to procedure in haste!

~Katy

[confused]

Here is the info mercola was talking about the purifier

Open Original Shared Link

paula

[confusedks]

Oh . .. ..and I quit smoking yesterday.

I'm only at 19hrs right now, but it's been 20 YEARS since I went that long w/out a cig. Most of the 7000+ days I rarely went an hour w/out.

I know, this is great Tom! I read on the silly thread! You guys crack me up!

Congrats Tom!!!

[Rachel--24]

Rachel, I am so sorry you started to have symptoms with the glutathione cream and that you won't be able to continue with it at this time

Thanks Julie...its not really a big disappointment....probably because I expected it. I already know how I react to sulfur foods and things like NAC...plus my previous reactions to glutathione and whey protein. I figured if I reacted that way I'd know for certain that I cant metabolise the sulfur to sulfate....so its just accumulating to toxic levels.

Its more info. for me to work with. Personally, I'd rather do the DMPS IV's rather than the lotion....for obvious reasons.

Even better though...I'd like to be able to do both at some point but for now theres no way to do the TD-DMPS until the sulfur issue is resolved...or at least improved. My Dr. actually had called in the prescription for no glutathione....but the pharmacy called me and said that wasnt an option with this TD-DMPS....it was formulated with the glutathione.

I would assume he means 4 times the amount when he says "fourfold". I am not so sure I understand how copper toxicity is measured, I thought you mentioned before the urine test doesn't give an accurate measurement. Are all these numbers you are looking at from your urine challenges?

Yeah...its true that the urine tests dont give an accurate measurement for copper toxicity. Thats because every person who takes DMPS should show elevated copper....thats just how it works...it pulls copper out first and the levels will be higher than the reference range.

I'm waiting for the results of red blood cell test to get a more accurate measurement on the copper...as well as other minerals (and toxic metals).

In the meantime...I was thinking that there was a pattern of increased copper excretion and decreased mercury excretion on all 3 of my urine tests. Copper increased with each test...and the mercury decreased with each test.

I was getting copper from my mineral IV's but these were 7 days away from my DMPS treatments...so under normal circumstances I dont think it should be as high as it is on my urine tests. I think it means the copper isnt getting utilized...probably because its blocked by mercury to some extent. I think its just kind of "sitting" around and probably interfering with other minerals....like molybdenum.

Thats what happens when one mineral is too high...it affects other minerals in the body. Mercury I think is the one that sets off this chain reaction.

I was just thinking that even though the urine test isnt accurate because of the chelator...if there IS a situation of copper toxicity...and a person keeps taking in more copper...it *must* have some effect on the excretion of mercury. I would assume that it would make the DMPS less available for mercury and other metals if the copper remains high.

I was thinking that something isnt really right if I'm excreting more and more copper...and less of everything else.

Dr. K. was most likely just speaking from his experience....cuz he's probably seen a million of these challenge tests over the years. So he was saying he doesnt suspect copper toxicity unless he sees that its being excreted more than 4x the upper normal range. I guess then it would probably make him think to look at the copper situation.

I just know you will get to the bottom of it, it may take trying several different things and approaching it from all different angles, but I know you will find that key that is going to unlock all of this for you

Thanks Julie.

Sorry about the cream too. I will be curious as to what you and Amy come up with. Has she done testing for copper at all?

I dont think Amy has done any testing for copper....probably because its an essential mineral. She tests the toxic metals and all the bugs, etc. Next time I could have her test copper (to see if its a stressor) but I hope to have answers sooner than that....and if its high I'll want to get back on IV DMPS. I think thats the most effective way to pull it out. It obviously works judging from the results of my urine tests. No shortage of copper coming out thats for sure!

I dont think copper would be an issue for me if not for the mercury. Nearly all kids with autism have high copper/low zinc. I think once mercury becomes an issue....the mineral balance in the body gets totally thrown off. Mercury will displace copper in the cells....so even if there is excess copper in the body...it doesnt necessarily mean there is no deficiency. There can be both copper toxicity AND copper deficiency occuring at the same time. It would mean it cant get to where it needs to go...and copper is a cofactor for LOTS of enzymes in the body.

If mercury is blocking copper....its not really a good thing to have a bunch of unbound copper getting stored away in tissue and just hanging out or interfering with other minerals. Thats my uneducated guess anyway.

I would think the copper needs to come out....and then more importantly the mercury and other toxic metals need to come out as well.

I just dont know how well that process would work if copper is *always* elevated (due to supplementation) and the chelator has a preference for copper above all other metals. Seems like treatment would be much more effective without lots of copper getting in the way.

Again....thats just my uneducated guess. I gotta run it by Amy.

[Rachel--24]

But yes, No worries! I will not enter to procedure in haste!

Glad to hear that Katy.

We'll be here to answer your questions when your ready for that.

Tom...congrats on not smoking. It gets easier once you get past the initial cravings. I used to smoke a pack a day (at least)....the past few years I havent even thought about picking up a cig.

[confused]

Ok its official i do have an problem with mold. I am so upset right now. I decided to clean the bathroom with an toothbrush cause the grout lines have not been done for months. Well i decide to take off the vent covers and sure enough there is mold all in there. Even since we have moved downstairs i have been sick and i had thought it was mold toxicity from all the old mold problems that we had. But i had thought they got it out when they remolded. I am so sick right now, i got all light headed and couldnt breathe. Im sure it has traveled threw all of the heat vents by now.

paula

[AndreaB]

Paula,

That is awful! I hope you guys can get those cleaned out and that it won't come back again. I know, more money that we are all swimming in right?

[confused]

Paula,

That is awful! I hope you guys can get those cleaned out and that it won't come back again. I know, more money that we are all swimming in right?

Thanks andrea, I am just so mad at all this right now. I woke up so sick again. My head is so clogged and light headed and i just feel so off today. Plus it is snowing here and i cant turn the heat on and we are out of wood to build an fire.

I think i want a new house lol

paula

[dlp252]

Paula, I'm so sorry about the mold. I STILL don't know exactly where the mold is in my house but it's there somewhere. I haven't looked in the vents though...I'm afraid to look now, lol.

[dlp252]

Oh...I forgot to mention something exciting that happened...about a week ago I wore earrings!!! A small thing to most people, but as most people on this thread know, I've developed a strong sensitivity to metals, including gold. Since I've been in "treatment" for the lyme and system support for about a year now, I decided to give them a try again. I wore them for probably about 8 hours, and my ears didn't hurt and there was no oozing or cysts in the holes! That is a major improvement over the last time I tried!!!! I only had them in for a couple of hours before those symptoms came up.

I haven't tried again...sort of afraid to push my luck, but it's nice to know I could wear them again once in a while. I have 4 holes in each ear, so I've got LOTS of earrings I want to wear, lol!

[confused]

Oh...I forgot to mention something exciting that happened...about a week ago I wore earrings!!! A small thing to most people, but as most people on this thread know, I've developed a strong sensitivity to metals, including gold. Since I've been in "treatment" for the lyme and system support for about a year now, I decided to give them a try again. I wore them for probably about 8 hours, and my ears didn't hurt and there was no oozing or cysts in the holes! That is a major improvement over the last time I tried!!!! I only had them in for a couple of hours before those symptoms came up.

I haven't tried again...sort of afraid to push my luck, but it's nice to know I could wear them again once in a while. I have 4 holes in each ear, so I've got LOTS of earrings I want to wear, lol!

Yayyyy that is great. I have been wanting to test earings lately to, but havent got the nerve lol. Do you have to try with 24 k gold, or can u try with cheap ones lol

paula

[dlp252]

Paula, I tried 14kt gold. I'm afraid to try my silver earrings yet, lol. Those have been reactive much longer than the 14kt gold ones were, so I'm going to give them a bit more time, lol.

[confused]

Paula, I'm so sorry about the mold. I STILL don't know exactly where the mold is in my house but it's there somewhere. I haven't looked in the vents though...I'm afraid to look now, lol.

Dont look lol. We have hot water base board heat and i know fur sure the bathroon one is covered in it. I am even afraid to take an bathe today.

I have been reading about mold toxicity online and it seems to fit almost every one of us in this house. My stepson and I the most tho. But it does correlate with the kids to that go to school, at school they are perfect angels and at home they have outburst from time to time.

Im not sure if i want to just clean it all out here, or buy an new house and sell this house as is lol.

paula

[dlp252]

Im not sure if i want to just clean it all out here, or buy an new house and sell this house as is lol.

If you are reacting to mold definitely DON'T try to clean it yourself!!! That would definitely be bad. Even if professionals (who are experts in mold removal) come in to clean it, don't be there when they do, lol.

[Nyxie63]

Carla,

Sorry for being a jerk last night. Was trying to be a brat and guess I passed it.

[AndreaB]

Donna,

YAY on the earrings!

Paula,

Definately don't try to clean the mold yourself.

How in the world are you supposed to stay warm if you can't use the heat or fire? It's going to be unseasonable cold here to going through the weekend.......more like December weather. I hope you can get ahold of a little bit of wood to help you through some of this cold snap.