Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Rachel--24]

Rachel, have you considered taking probiotics? I am gluten intolerant, and I think I might be corn intolerant, however, even after getting rid of these items, I was still feeling sick.

Hi Scott...I've taken lots of probiotics. I'm about to start taking them again. I dont have alot of stomach pain or anything like that. My main problem is candida...high toxicity....leaky gut...and heightened immune response to food and environment....and there is some evidence that I may have Lyme Disease.

Even though probiotics are definately important....in my case they dont relieve any symptoms....but they'll play a big role in getting my gut back in balance...at some point in time.

[Rachel--24]

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of my problem (possibly leaky guy syndrome), but I am happy that I've found a way to rid myself of these pains when eating gluten-free foods.

There are more affordable ways to add probiotics to your diet, like eating fermented foods, but this is my solution for now.

-Scott

I dont eat fermented foods due to yeast and the fact that I'm highly reactive to those foods particularly.

I'm glad the probiotics have helped you....it could be that you've got some candida overgrowth...(#1 cause of leaky gut). Maybe the probiotics are helping you keep in under control but when your immune system was a little weakened by the virus...it flared up again??

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Rachel: after reading post #11931, I have a strong urge to make you chicken soup...

[CarlaB]

Rachel, yeah, I do. Your symptoms go along with candida, as you said. The candida obviously has a reason for being there, but you were put through a lot.

I know I was exposed to this over 30 years ago. I have had symptoms come up here and there, but have mainly felt good. I was one of those people who others would ask how I had so much energy! This is the fourth time this has brought me down ... the other three, my own immune system handled it. All four times were because of stress ... the first stressor was a majorly broken heart at 19, btw. It was always negative stress, the positive stresses never made it bother me.

I think this has just been a way too stressful five years -- it took that long to sell our old house, we actually bought this house and moved to it in 2002, then moved back to the other house in 2003 and rented this one out, then moved back here in 2006 living split as a family for 4 months. I am guessing that eventually my immune system might be able to overcome it again this time, but it seems to have a better hold on me than before, so I more than likely need some help.

The numbers are shocking, but not surprising, if that makes sense. I think you have a good chance of stregthening your immune system as you get rid of the candida to make it strong enough to keep the Lyme a non-issue. That's just my opinion, of course, but from my own personal history, it seems likely. When I had my amalgams removed and fought candida, I never had to address the Lyme -- it went into remission for over 10 years. I ate healthy and supplemented that whole time and the Lyme didn't kick in again until all this recent stress.

Just keep the triggers away!! I think that my future will be healthier than my past just because I know that this is always a possibility. I won't feel guilty sleeping in, or saying "no", etc. I'll know I need to be careful to keep my immune system strong. No more burning the candle at both ends.

Our flight is early, so signing off ... maybe till after my appt., but maybe I'll check in tomorrow.

If you want the details, please send me your email address. I'll put generalities on here, but I don't want to post specifics for the world to see ....

[CarlaB]

Rachel: after reading post #11931, I have a strong urge to make you chicken soup...

Ooooh, that sounds delicious!! Make me some, too!!! Please!!

[Rachel--24]

I'm digging more deeper into the possibility of candida being the trigger for Celiac and non-celiac gluten intolerance. Its actually making more sense to me then anything has so far...Even moreso than the possibility of Lyme being the trigger.

I'm now thinking Lyme is not a trigger for Celiac. I think its more likely that people with Lyme...or *any* viral or bacteria infection are susceptible to candida....either due to weakened immune defense or antibiotic treatment for the infection. Most people with Lyme *do* have Candida as well.

Now that I've learned about the candida/gluten connection I'm pretty darned convinced.

I'm gonna post this again...in case anyone didnt see it the first few times...

Now we come to what to me is the most interesting of the recent research regarding celiac. It seems fitting that the research again comes from Holland , where celiac disease was first linked to diet. Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, from the research group TNO Nutrition and Food Research, published a paper in the June, 2003, Lancet. He links celiac disease with Candida albicans.Dr. Nieuwenhuizen, knowing the actual sequence of proteins which trigger celiac disease from the published work of other scientists, had searched the databases available to him through TNO to see if the same sequence existed in other places. It turns out the identical sequence of proteins occur in the cell walls of Candida albicans. [15]

These Candida gluten-like proteins turn out to be the yeast's "hypha-specific surface protein" nicknamed Hwp1. This is the yeast's version of Velcro and allows it to attach and hang onto the endomysium in the wall of the intestine. It is also targeted by transglutaminase, the enzyme which acts on the gluten protein and serves as a target for immune antibodies. Candida species which don't have this Hwp1 protein can't attach themselves to the digestive tract. [16]

If Candida can trigger the same chemical and immunological reactions as wheat gluten do we can imagine a number of interesting implications.

First, in people with celiac disease, symptoms usually get better rapidly when they eliminate gluten from their diet. This isn't always the case. Even without gluten some people continue to have symptoms. They may have intestinal Candidiasis. The Candida in their gut may be acting like gluten and continues triggering symptoms.

Second, an acute Candida infection may trigger the onset of celiac disease. Even if the Candida is treated and eliminated, the person could be left with a permanent sensitivity to wheat gluten.

Candida infections occur frequently with antibiotic usage. In people genetically susceptible to celiac, extra caution should be exercised when using antibiotics to prevent Candida overgrowth.

Third, if wheat can cause neurological damage as in gluten ataxia, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could also do so by the same process. Reports of Candida infections causing neurological symptoms are not uncommon; now we have a possible explanation.

Fourth, if only a small portion of the people with gluten ataxia have gastrointestinal symptoms despite their severe damage elsewhere in their bodies, it is reasonable to assume that Candida could stimulate significant problems while producing slight or no digestive symptoms.

So what does all this mean? Here's my bottom line:

Celiac disease may be grossly under diagnosed. It should be ruled out in any chronic digestive condition even if the symptoms don't fit the classic picture. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in osteoporosis and in neurological problems, especially MS. Celiac disease should also be ruled out in Hashimoto's Disease and other thyroid abnormalities. Whenever Celiac disease is diagnosed, Candida infections should be tested for and treated aggressively. People of Irish descent are far more likely to get celiac disease than others and should be extra cautious to avoid Candida infections and treat them aggressively if they occur.

Interestingly this research is available right here on this site....I wonder why noone has ever brought this up??

https://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=859

Well....the more and more I think about it...the more its making sense to me.

My Candida book actually tells of studies they've done which show that candida albicans leads to autoantibodies.

Check this out...

Medical scientists in the Dept. of Mycology at the Institut Pasteur, Paris, France, investigated six patients who were suffering with chronic, generalized candidiasis of the skin, nails, and oral and genital mucous membranes. The scientists were looking for the presence of autoantibodies during the course of the patients yeast infections.

As mentioned, the presence of autoantibodies means that the body has launched immune defense reactions against parts of itself.

The researchers carried out highly sophisticated testing procedures, and results of their tests were incontestable. Autoantibodies specifically against each of the body areas involved with yeast infections were detected.

Treatment against candida albicans, using the effective anti-candida drug ketoconazole, was given to four of these six patients. Retesting showed that all signs of autoantibodies had disappeared.

It goes on to say...

Science hasnt explained why the body should lose the ability to distinguish between substances that are "self" and those that are "nonself". An accumulating stack of evidence is pointing the finger of suspicion directly at candida albicans as well as other parasites or infections.

All of my research keeps coming back to the fact that autoimmune disease is caused by microorganisms....bacteria....yeasts....pathogens.

I think candida albicans would be the most prevelant one....given the overuse of antibiotics accompanied by the diet most are accustomed to here in the US.

It goes on to discuss the results of further studies done on mice. After the studies the researchers concluded that infection by candida albicans induces a nonspecific immunosuppression.

It says yeast is associated with depressed cellular immune system.

So I've got all these possibilities running through my head about this....

I always was curious as to why in some families....all family members have Celiac and in other families only one person may have it. That totally baffles my mind.

So I'm wondering if in these cases it could be yeast?? This could happen in so many ways....here are a few scenarios that come to mind...

1. The mother has candida (or developed it during pregnancy when chances for yeast infection are high). This is passed onto the children....I'm pretty sure it can be passed through breast milk if I'm remembering correctly. The yeast overgrowth (even if short-term) can trigger Celiac.

2. The mother has latent lyme infection and passes latent lyme onto the children. The presence of the bacteria by itself....or with additional yeast overgrowth...triggers the autoimmune response....hence triggering Celiac.

3. The family is affected by something in their environment. Chronic mold exposure, for instance, can suppress the immune system and alter the intestinal flora....leading to a candida overgrowth. Celiac Disease is then triggered...in all who are genetically susceptible. (This seems like a very likely scenario to me)

I was posting on another thread about mold, candida and had "cut and pasted" that research about candida triggering Celiac.

Then someone posted this.....

My daughters have been to Ireland to visit a friend a couple of times, and all houses they were in had mold . The clothes smelled mold when they came back. Now with the article in the Lancet and the high prevalence of celiac in Ireland.....is there a connection....just thinking.

So that really got me thinking.

Of course genetics is the biggest factor in who gets Celiac.....but are those who are living in environments which suppress the immune system and promote candida overgrowth also the ones who are most likely to have their gene triggered??

We know pregnancy is a huge trigger for Celiac.....pregnant women are also more susceptable to yeast infections.

All triggers for Celiac involve a weakening of the immune system....which would also be the most likely time for an opportunistic yeast like candida albicans to step up.

I dunno...I could be not thinking clearly (I started my Nystatin).....but it does seem to make sense to me in alot of ways.

Also...I'm not one to believe we get autoimmune disease for no good reason. Something had to be behind my Graves Disease. Unless I got exposed to Lyme when I was younger it couldnt be responsible for my Graves because I got "the bite" a few years after my thyroid went hyper.

I always smoked...always had high levels of stress and always ate the most unhealthy diet. My thyroid would only wack out when I was under more stress than normal. I wonder if the stress was supressing my immune sytem enough to let candida overgrow for a period of time....until I calmed down and my immune system got it under control again.

Then maybe since the last time I was under stress and my thyroid wacked out... and I had the dental work done at the same time....maybe the mercury got in the way of allowing my immune system to recover like it had so many times before.....then with all the stuff that heaped on after that....the candida and everything else just exploded??

Another post that got out of hand...

Me and my "theories".

Carla....have a safe trip!!!

I'll be waiting to hear all about it! I hope it goes well.

[Rachel--24]

Rachel: after reading post #11931, I have a strong urge to make you chicken soup...

Alison....you dont know how badly I want soup (especially chicken soup)!!!

Its been unusually cold here and everyone at work is buying hot soup from the deli....with crackers of course.

It looks and smells soooo good.

Yeah...I'm broken and I could really use some chicken soup for healing.

[diamondheart]

Claire....does he have an overgrowth of C.Diff?? Usually people will get hit with C.Diff while hospitilized and on antibiotics. Its the same scenario as with candida....antibiotics wipe out too much of the friendly bacteria and C. Diff can overgrow. When it overgrows it produces toxins....C. Difficile toxin A and Toxin B.

Thanks for the info Rachel. Yes, DH tested for Toxins A & B for C. diff. from a stool test. Dr. F doesn't rely on BioSET to diagnose pathogens. He makes you get the tests done, which is fine by me. DH does not have severe diarrhea, but he does have pretty bad gas. I mean, he can clear a room - WOOFF !! I've actually been woken up in the middle of the night from being fumigated by his farts . But it could also be the saprophytic fungi that they also found in his gut.

DH was in the hospital a couple of years ago for back surgery, so we think he might have gotten it there as it's really common in hospitals. Just another reason to hate hospitals .

They can test for the C.Diff toxins and if they are found then it needs to be treated with antibiotics. Usually Flagyl. Aggressive antibiotic treatment....if Flagyl doesnt work...Vancomyacin is used as a last resort.

I was worried that all the Flagyl I took while in the Peace Corps was antibiotics after reading this. I asked DH, and of course, got another chemistry lesson. I guess even though Flagyl is a heavy duty drug used to treat intestinal parasites, it is not an antibiotic. DH made me look up the chemical structures for Flagyl versus antibiotics . For all you wondering, they are different chemical structures with antibiotics being a more complicated structure than Flagyl :huh: . Ok, that's my simplified version of it, and all I really know is that they aren't the same. Now, as for the effect it has on your gut, I dunno. I'm wondering if the Flagyl wipes everything out like antibiotics, the good and the bad. I always took Flagyl for parasites, the one-celled amoeba. Then I took another drug to get rid of the cysts that amoebas form in your liver. On top of that, I was taking another drug to prevent getting malaria, another parasite. Pleasant, eh ? I did it when I was in my early 20's and it didn't phase me at the time.

So, I guess I'll worry more about that fungi amongi DH . In any case, Dr. F is going to treat it without antibiotics. Dr. F says the only reason to take antibiotics is when you have a blood, bone, or organ infection, somewhere you can't get at effectively with Chinese herbs. Otherwise, he says he can treat all infections with herbs. I'm ok with that .

Claire

[diamondheart]

I asked the BioSET lady lady if somehow the candida issue could have become a problem to this magnitude because of the fact that I had very high levels of stress, an overactive thyroid, poor diet, exposure to mercury, radiation for the thyroid, lots of antibiotics...and all of this occurring within the same time frame??? Could it have just been too much at once??

She was like this.

She actually started laughing....couldnt believe all that happened to me at the same time. She was saying that shes never heard of someone having all that at the same time....talk about BAD LUCK! She said with a combination like that.....if my luck were reversed and we were talking about lottery numbers....I could WIN!!

She said its like I got knocked down and then someone went and kicked me some more.....and that just wasnt good enough so I got beat down some more....and then they said..."hey...she's still alive....so lets give her some radiation now." And then I was still around so they gave me antibiotics of all kinds....and yet I'm still here.

So yeah...she said that would definately be enough to cause this.

And thats leaving out the Lyme factor and the fact that I had that bite.

I also left out the fact that I got dumped in the midst of all that...got my heart broken....and that wasnt it....my ex also felt the need to repeatedly kick me while I was down for like a year....breaking my heart over and over again. There is also the fact that while I was really sick and trying to deal with all this I started chain smoking....cuz of all the stress. So yeah...at this point I was already highly toxic and reacting to stuff and there I was smoking a pack a day (at least) and barely eating anything....and getting sicker.

It was a heinous time....ALOT going on in about 6 months time...each thing causing me to get more and more sick.

:blink:

Damn girl, you've been through a lot! I know you've been trying to pin point one factor, but it sounds like you had the whole 9 yards at once, and that's your answer.

Claire

[AndreaB]

Rachel,

I've been reading but not posting much.

Your theories make sense to me.

Still don't answer Talitha's intolerances......I'm leaning toward mercury with her though....thimerosal/my amalgams.

[Rachel--24]

. I guess even though Flagyl is a heavy duty drug used to treat intestinal parasites, it is not an antibiotic.

Claire,

As far as everything I've ever read re: Flagyl....it is definately an antibiotic. One of the more stronger antibiotics...and yes...it will wipe out gut bacteria. Its the frontline treatment used for C.Diff...which is a bacteria.

Heres some info. about Flagyl...

GENERIC NAME: metronidazole

BRAND NAME: Flagyl

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Metronidazole is an antibiotic effective against anaerobic bacteria and certain parasites. Anaerobic bacteria are single-cell living organisms that thrive in low oxygen environments and can cause disease in the abdomen (bacterial peritonitis) liver (liver abscess), and pelvis ( abscess of the ovaries and the fallopian tubes). Giardia lamblia and ameba are parasites that can cause abdominal pain and chronic diarrhea in infected individuals. Metronidazole selectively blocks some of the cell functions in these microorganisms, resulting in their demise.

PRESCRIPTION: yes

GENERIC AVAILABLE: yes

PREPARATIONS: Tablets: 250mg, 500mg.

STORAGE: Metronidazole should be stored at room temperature and protected from light.

PRESCRIBED FOR: Metronidazole is used to treat giardia infections of the small intestines, amebic liver abscess and dysentery (amebic colon infection causing bloody diarrhea), trichomonas vaginal infections, and carriers of trichomonas (both sexual partners) who do not have symptoms of infection. Metronidazole is also used alone or in combination with other antibiotics in treating abscesses in the liver, pelvis, abdomen and brain caused by susceptible anaerobic bacteria. Metronidazole is also used in treating colon infection caused by a bacteria called C. difficile. Many commonly used antibiotics can alter the normal type of bacteria that inhabit the colon. C. difficile is an anaerobic bacteria that can infect the colon when the normal bacteria types of the colon are altered by common antibiotics. This leads to inflammation of the colon (pseudomembranous colitis) with severe diarrhea and abdominal pain.

DOSING: Metronidazole may be taken with or without food. In the hospital, metronidazole can be administered intravenously to treat serious infections. Metronidazole is metabolized mainly by the liver and dosages may need to be reduced in patients with abnormal liver function.

DRUG INTERACTIONS: Alcohol should be avoided because metronidazole and alcohol together can cause severe nausea, vomiting, cramps, flushing, and headache. Metronidazole can increase the blood thinning effects of warfarin (Coumadin) and increase the risk of bleeding. Cimetidine (Tagamet) increases the blood level of metronidazole.

PREGNANCY: Metronidazole is not used in early pregnancy because of potential adverse effects on the babies.

NURSING MOTHERS: Metronidazole is not used by nursing mothers because of potential adverse effects on the babies.

SIDE EFFECTS: Metronidazole is a valuable antibiotic, and is generally well tolerated with appropriate use. Serious side effects of metronidazole are rare; and include seizures and damage of nerves resulting in numbness and tingling of extremities (peripheral neuropathy). Metronidazole should be stopped if these symptoms appear. Minor side effects include nausea, headaches, loss of appetite, a metallic taste, and rarely a rash

[Rachel--24]

Still don't answer Talitha's intolerances......I'm leaning toward mercury with her though....thimerosal/my amalgams.

Andrea...if a person has high levels of mercury yeast is *always* an issue. They go hand in hand. Higher levels of candida albicans are going to be present in anyone who has heavy metal toxicity.

Its just a matter of which came first. If mercury comes first then the candida is a result of the imbalance in the body. If candida comes first then the metal toxicity is more likely caused by the liver not being able to detox efficiently. The liver can get easily burdened by the candida toxins.

[AndreaB]

Andrea...if a person has high levels of mercury yeast is *always* an issue. They go hand in hand. Higher levels of candida albicans are going to be present in anyone who has heavy metal toxicity.

Its just a matter of which came first. If mercury comes first then the candida is a result of the imbalance in the body. If candida comes first then the metal toxicity is more likely caused by the liver not being able to detox efficiently. The liver can get easily burdened by the candida toxins.

I'll have to talk to my doctor and see what he thinks. She was the only child on "cillan" when she was little....for 3 ear infections. She didn't have any malabsorption according to enterolab. Perfectly fine, very low.

[diamondheart]

Wow, there are many different types of antibiotics !!

Open Original Shared Link

I guess DH was wrong. How did I miss all these years that Flagyl was an antibiotic ? What planet have I been living on ?

Claire

[NoGluGirl]

When I was healthy, I was like that.

My problem now is that I feel good after I exercise, then after my sauna, my neck, shoulders and back ache like when you have the flu ... I guess that's good because it kills the bugs, but it sure feels bad.

Dear CarlaB,

Thank you for the info on prebiotics. I kept hearing about them, but had no idea what they were! I take L. Acidophillus, but maybe I need prebiotics to assist their functioning. I do feel the difference without them. I try to workout, but lately after doing that round of Flagyl, the past couple of months I just have not felt well enough. I am going to try and at least do Pilates a few times per week.

It really helped the Fibromyalgia, too. I did not feel is rough with it on the days I did them. The yeast issue is still pending scientifically, but personally, I am pretty sure that it the trouble. I seemed to have had a bacterial infection on top of a yeast infection. We will see soon if the cream helps at all!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

[CarlaB]

Most people with Lyme *do* have Candida as well.

Carla....have a safe trip!!!

I'll be waiting to hear all about it! I hope it goes well.

True. It thought I probably had candida until I bought The Yeast Connection again and realized I don't have any signs of it (except for fatigue). Many have it because of the constant antibiotics use.

I have too much brain fog to digest all that scientificness tonight .... tired after a long day for me. But, WE'RE HERE!!

[happygirl]

Carla, Hope it goes well. I'm thinking of you. xoxoxo

[CarlaB]

Carla, Hope it goes well. I'm thinking of you. xoxoxo

Thanks! I'm going to have to bring a note pad ... good thing Adam's going to be there, too. This brain fog is killing me!

NoGluGirl, did the Flagyl help the Fibro? Wouldn't that indicate the Fibro is a bacterial infection?

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Rachel,. as usual, your theories make far more sense than anything the medical community is trying to sell!

Do you have my chicken soup recipes? Crockpot/rotisserie chicken bones plus vegies and the other is egg drop soup made with that chicken stock that comes in cardboard boxes--can you have any of that?

[Rachel--24]

Rachel,. as usual, your theories make far more sense than anything the medical community is trying to sell!

Alison,

Someone on another thread mentioned that I should go to school. All of this stuff really fascinates me.....although I'm postive it would bore me to death had I not been put into this predicament....against my will.

Anyways.....now I'm sucked into the scientificness of it all.

I think the main problem with the medical community is that they are totally consumed by disease....its all they care about. They only know what to do if they can diagnose a disease and start some sort of treatment with prescription meds. Its NEVER about prevention. Its never about finding underlying causes. They really have no idea what causes autoimmune disease and its just not their business to care.

When I was going to Kaiser and still sick after they "treated" my Graves....they started testing me for all other autoimmune disease (since they so ofeten come together). Everything came back negative but my Dr. told me this: " Well...you could still be having some autoimmune stuff going on that just hasnt completely developed enough that you'll test positive for anything....but that might change later....sometimes it takes awhile to show up."

Ummmm...ok...

He said it as if in some way it was suppossed to be reassuring.

I'm sure he was proably right...and I'm sure I've got autoimmune stuff going on right now as I type this....but why the heck would I wanna just sit around and *wait* for them to fully develop??

I dont understand the medical community at all....I dont understand their line of thinking. I'm not on the same page with them and if I ever got interested in medicine after all this....it would definately be preventive medicine. Thats the stuff that could really help people....if we could understand *why* these things happen and address those things before the diseases start to show up. To me thats REAL success.

Giving someone pain meds to relieve their symptoms of RA...or giving someone all kinds of steroids or other drugs to help their MS...even if these things help some of the symptoms...I wouldnt exactly call that a success.

When I was at the compounding pharmacy waiting for my Nystatin...I picked up a flyer about Fibromyalgia. I just couldnt believe what I was reading...it makes no sense to me and I just wanted to laugh....but its really not too funny.

It repeatedly refers to this as a disorder for which the cause is still unknown. It goes on to talk about how its diagnosed, how its treated (drugs) and the prognosis....it can be a disabling chronic condition in which symptoms can wax and wane.

All of the symptoms listed are the symtpoms caused by bacteria, parasites or candida. It lists about 100 symptoms.

This is what it says about what causes FMS

The cause of FMS remains elusive, but there are many triggering events thought to precipitate its onset. Examples include: infections (bacterial or viral), automobile accidents, or the development of another disorder, such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus or hypothyroidism. These triggering events probably dont cause FMS, but rather, they may awaken an underlying physiological abnormality that is already present.

What???

So it saying that it occurs when infections are present, or when there is trauma, or when there are autoimmune diseases occurring. I think this goes right along with everything I've been researching about infections causing autoimmune disease. FMS is just a part of the whole picture...unfortunately conventional medicine never seems to look at the WHOLE picture.

People with latent Lyme Disease can start developing symtpoms after a car accident or traumatic event....people can get candida....or other issues related to stress on the immune system. We all have pathogens living within us....if our immune systems arent up to par and the conditions within the body are just right...these pathogens can step-up. This is not FMS....and a person will most likely NEVER recover if they accept this diagnosis and go on treating it with pain meds. It makes me sooooo sad.

In the section that talks about treatments it mentions stuff like sleep and treatments designed to boost the immune system. Well yeah...if boosting the immune system helps with symtpoms....wouldnt that be an indication that *something* is weakening the immune system and causing the FMS symptoms to begin with??

I could totally be wrong about all this but it doesnt make sense to just say "we dont know what causes this....you just have to live it and take mediaction for the pain."

When Kaiser put me in their chronic pain clinic...half of the people there had Fibro. From the very first day...I just knew I didnt belong there. Same thing when they put me in a TMJ class...which talked about managing TMJ....I just felt like they were ignoring everything *important* as to why we were sufferring with these things and *only* focusing on learning how to live with the pain.

I like learning about the other side of all this....and I'm very grateful that there is a whole other medical profession dedicated to researching and finding the *real* reasons behind FMS and autoimmune disease. Thank God for that!

Do you have my chicken soup recipes? Crockpot/rotisserie chicken bones plus vegies and the other is egg drop soup made with that chicken stock that comes in cardboard boxes--can you have any of that?

I cant have chicken.

I dont know why but I react to soups.....I think it might have something to do with cooking the meats in the water...and I'm reacting to the broth. I'm gonna try again someday without cooking the meat in the water and see what happens.

When I get better I'm gonna have to try some of your soups!

[Rachel--24]

I forgot to share about my thyroid panel at BioSET last week.

Basically I flunked....again.

I was weak with almost everything in the panel. It was *everything* having to do with thyroid...the hormones...the mediactions...(they even had Armour in there)....all of the things that have to do with the thyroid gland.

Interestingly...the last row of vials was *other* substances like gliadin, gluten, red dye 40, msg, aspartame and other chemicals found in our food supply.

I asked her why these were included in the thyroid panel and she said that these are all the things that were found to be problematic for people with thyroid disease. These were all linked in some way to thyroid problems.

If leaky gut and pathogens is truelly the cause of autoimmune disease.....it would make sense that these particular substances would be linked with autoimmune stuff. These would be the most toxic things in our food supply that would be allowed to leak into the bloodstream via the leaky gut. These would be things that could contribute to immune dysfunction.

Anyways....I did so bad on the panel...and I reacted to all of those substances too.

The lady said she thinks I might have autoimmune stuff going on with my thyroid. I told her I had Graves but they nuked my thyroid.

She said she would guess that the immune stuff is still going on...even if my thyroid is not functioning....its still physically a part of me and the same autoimmune stuff could still be going on....regardless of whether or not my thyroid is able to produce anything or not.

Yeah...I'm sure shes exactly right....because whatever caused my thyroid to go haywire to begin with is still untreated and its obviously still affecting all of my body systems. I just hope I can get a handle on it before anything else autoimmune pops up.

Stupid pathogens.

[covsooze]

Hi Rachel

hvae you kept a list of links on what the causes are of leaky guts and what the possible pathogens are and what tests are needed to establish what the issues are in an individual? I want to get to the bottom of these issues, but it's very difficult in the UK as leaky gut is not recognised by the mainstream medical profession. It means I will have to pay to see someone, but I've no idea where to start/ who to see/ what tests to expect. The people I've spoken to in the past (nutritionists) just seem to jump on the candida band wagon automatically. Whilst that might well be a valid issue, I want tests to show that's what the problem is (or ID what else it could be).

Could celiac disease by itself cause leaky gut? I am biopsy diagnosed and I had total villous atrophy so in my mind (this is not scientific in any way!) that would lead me to think it wouldn't be surprising to end up with holes in my gut. By last biopsy showed my gut had healed significantly from the celiac disease damage. Does that mean the leaky gut should be getting better? For that matter, how do I determine if I've got a leaky gut?

Sorry - these things have probably been discussed way back!!

Thanks for all your scientificness. I think you should go to school You could teach the teachers a thing or 2

Susie x

[nikki-uk]

I think the main problem with the medical community is that they are totally consumed by disease....its all they care about. They only know what to do if they can diagnose a disease and start some sort of treatment with prescription meds. Its NEVER about prevention. Its never about finding underlying causes. They really have no idea what causes autoimmune disease and its just not their business to care.

I totally agree, and it's not just in the US.

This article written by a UK gp makes an interesting read.This guy had the forsight to think outside the box.

Open Original Shared Link

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Wow. I especially like the part where he says, "but there are also some highly intelligent people who approach the problem thoughtfully and rationally. They cannot be dismissed."

He must have heard about our Lyme Ladies!

[Rachel--24]

Alison...I just saw your fibro thread. Dang...how did I miss that one??

Was your friend in pain management open to this??

I wonder if Fibro is a result of leaky gut....with gluten being the most problematic food passing through??

I tested myself a long time ago and I had most of the tender spots.....enough to be diagnosed. I would check and sometimes I'd have nearly all the tender points and other times...barely any. Since I changed my diet I really probably only have 2 tender spots still.

It can all flare up again if I eat the wrong foods though or the bad stuff like msg....thats why I'm wondering if its related to leaky gut. I read all the posts and it seems like people get relief from removing gluten and other foods....much better results then they ever got taking pain meds.

I had to take pain meds everyday for a year....since the day I changed my diet I never took another pill. In April it will be 2 years totally free of pain meds.