Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[mftnchn]

Sherry,

Are these results from provoked urine tests?

How often do you have them done?

Yes, provoked urine tests. I have had them done every couple of years I think. At one point the mercury increased, maybe in 2004 was the high point. I guess I don't have all the results. What I recall: initially in 2000 mercury was elevated, removed amalgams. Next test increased. Next test not much change. But yes, when I look at 2004 and 2007, there is a decrease. I am sure I'll have them next winter again when I get back to the USA because after going Gluten-free Casein-free there could be some changes.

I checked again and in 2004:

Calcium was 310 (rang 55-400)

Magnesium was 110 (range 45-230)

Copper 0.45 (rand of 0.01-0.09)

Boron and Molybdenum were also very high, boron because I was taking a supplement of it.

In 2007:

Copper 0.43 (range 0.01-0.09)

Selenium was low 0.035 (range 0.05-0.35)

Calcium was 97 (range 55-400)

Magnesium was 61 (range 45-230)

Also Rachel your idea about the balance between bugs and metals fits. I stopped ABX totally plus TF, Cat's Claw in February 2007. Continued to take DMPS every two weeks (oral dose).

So I don't have the high calcium low mercury pattern. But the high copper--how does that fit do you think?

[christine 25]

I know.

Thats why I added that last sentence to my post. I just went on an Enterolab rant again....I cant stop myself.

Rachel,

Thanks for the posts on sulfur pathways, and the B12 methylation.

Very interesting stuff. Really well written. I totally agree.

Hope the M B12 makes you feel better.

No head swelling! leave her alone!!!

Hope everyone has a good weekend!

Sending love and peace out to yall...

C

[tom]

I was just teasing you ... it's my band friends who talk like you're describing and like you talk ... so I was making fun of you being a band geek.

Hehehehhehe

Bet they don't make Richard Feynman jokes!!

Around Silicon Valley it's the geek geeks. The Royal Geek court in the Kingdom of the geeks. (Save parts of Redmond WA)

And I didn't talk to the band geeks this way!!!!!!!!

Just a few select well-rounded geek geeks.

Ugh runnin' around so much I gotta remember to not overextend.

[CarlaB]

I know.

Thats why I added that last sentence to my post. I just went on an Enterolab rant again....I cant stop myself.

Ah, that sentence wasn't there when I read it!

Andrea, it sounds like it went well. Her adrenals are bound to be fatigued since she's having health issues ... that goes hand in hand. As her health improves, so will her adrenals.

I'd like the details.

[CarlaB]

Ugh runnin' around so much I gotta remember to not overextend.

Be careful, you don't want to be reminded tomorrow!!

[Rachel--24]

I think your theory is brilliant. I don't know if it is true or not but it seems like dealing with Lyme is like being in a battle where you are surrounded and you have to fight back on different fronts, sometimes all at once and sometimes piece by piece.

Yeah....thats how I see it too. You have to fight alot more than just to Lyme to ultimately win the war.

If you use all your energy just fighting one thing....you might temporarily win the fight....but the war will continue....and you find yourself fighting the same battles.

I wonder how it is that one person may be bitten and not get ill and another is bitten and becomes desperately ill. I know it is a combination of circumstances, perhaps one person is already mercury toxic and the other is not.

There are soooo many possibilities. Yes, mercury toxicity is one....because its interfering with the body's detox pathways.

Also genetics.....some people are very susceptible to Lyme biotoxins...where others are not. Some people are very susceptible to mold biotoxins....while others are not. Its the toxins that make people sick....not the bacteria (or fungus) itself.

If the body cant excrete those toxins....they will continue to circulate throughout the body...endlessly...continuing to making you sick.

Some peoples immune systems do not recognize certain things as being toxic...thus it does not do anything to rid the body of these things. Some people are more susceptible to Lyme for this reason.

Other people have no problem getting rid of these toxins... they dont accumulate, they dont circulate, they dont get you sick.

There are genetic tests that can reveal which toxins you are susceptible to...or if you're susceptible to all of them (heavy metals, lyme, molds). I havent had the testing but so far Scott and Dr. Amy *think* that I may not be very susceptible to Lyme toxins. Metals and molds are a different story though. Mold toxins circulate through my body...I cant get rid of them..Lyme toxins dont appear to have this affect on me.

We're all in a better place now, with much thanks to this thread.

OMG, I think it is a fest. Donna started it.

Can I join in????

[AndreaB]

So this is what it says (I had it partially wrong):

So it didnt say that the mercury levels had to be low....my memory just sucks.

This is what it actually states.

.

So almost half of my essential elements were out of range and my calcium was elevated.....but mercury VERY LOW.

My calcium was below range. I was vegan though so that could have been part of it. Still don't eat dairy but do take 1000 mg of calcium a day now.

I have the DQ8 gene but....

doubt I'll challenge this EVER knowing what I know about gluten now!

I wouldn't challenge it either with the dq8.

I think of everyone here as a close friend....my extended family....we're in this together.

Ditto.

I'm feeling in a VERY thankful mood today, so just thought I'd speak up and say a big:

THANK YOU

to everyone here!

Ditto.

What's DS again? Seen it mentioned a few times.

Another support forum that some of us belong to.

Oh....and if the shot is to be given every 3 days....does that mean my next shot would be Sunday...or Monday??

I'm thinking Sunday but I just wanna make sure.

Sunday.

The good news is that I didnt even feel the shot!

Yay!

[tom]

...but I dont see how Dr. Fine can determine that his tests are accurate based on "most people who test positive feel better off gluten".

Yikes I didn't know there was controversy on Dr Fine!!

Hmmmm where's my old bkmrks? Oh, in Phx.

I suppose I'm thinking that his reputation seemed good, but I thought some of THAT came from reading that his research included actual measurements w/ #s & statistical correlation to biopsies. Hmm

Off to googleland!!

[tom]

Another support forum that some of us belong to.

Ppppushht (dammit! What's the sound of almost spitting out water from surprise?)

I mean - in the middle of the :wub: lovefest this appears to insinuate that the level of support on *this* thread is inadequate???? I must be reading that wrong.

Orrrrrrrr it's not health-related!! Aha!

<muttering> . . . . ("women")

:lol:

<no1 heard that I hope - doesn't muttering mean "UNDER breath"?>

[rinne]

......

I'm glad because all my fears about the shots are gone now.

That's great news Rachel.

....

For her testing she came up with quite a few things. HepB and Mumps came up. Sulfa family compounds (which is needed to be clear for detox). I was told that it was a possibility that if we had gone through DMPS/DMSA for chelation that it could have caused a backfire.

......

I found it quite sad that she already has a problem with her adrenals.

She has LED for Sulpha as I've stated below, and then she'll have LED for foods and I forget what else.

I've very optomistic about this and like Dr. Elizabeth. She said she's been doing cold laser for 6 years and it was very easy to incorporate the LED. She was down at that training session. She thinks Scott is the greatest and is very pleased with his progress with ART testing.

....

I'm glad you are feeling good about today.

I think the best thing is that you are helping her to deal with this now.

....

Can I join in????

Of course.

.....

<muttering> . . . . ("women")

:lol:

<no1 heard that I hope - doesn't muttering mean "UNDER breath"?>

[Mtndog]

I still feel horrid today so I am just sitting in the AC watching TV all day. We are supposed to get some SERIOUS thunderstorms this afternoon and the temp is going to drop into the 70's.

It was interesting in that I could tell the difference between a gluten-reaction, a Lyme bacteria die-off and this. My body clearly knew that it was the heat.

wentout a little while ago and got some Pedialyte ice pops to eat. Waiting for the storms (oh please oh please!)

No storms AND I lied- it's DEFINITELY a herx. Sneaky, cheeky Lymie bacterias. Blech!

Die bacteria die!

[rinne]

No storms AND I lied- it's DEFINITELY a herx. Sneaky, cheeky Lymie bacterias. Blech!

Die bacteria die!

Did I dingo that?

Sorry the herx is so miserable. Hope you feel better soon.

I do like

[Rachel--24]

Also Rachel your idea about the balance between bugs and metals fits. I stopped ABX totally plus TF, Cat's Claw in February 2007. Continued to take DMPS every two weeks (oral dose).

It makes sense that your mercury levels increased after the removals. Yeah...I do think your Lyme came back because your're still chelating but totally went off of Lyme treatment.

Every Dr. I see has reiterated this point to me many times. You cant move one without also moving the other. They live together and the bugs are always where the metals are. So if you're just killing bugs...you're releasing all kinds of metals.

If you're going after the metals (chelation)...you're releasing the bugs. For some reason....the yeast and the bugs can get out of control when you do this.

They tell me everything has to be treated in unison...the symptoms will see-saw back and forth...you kill bugs...you release metals...you move metals...you release bugs. It goes back and forth like this until enough of it is cleared from the body....then you wont feel it so much.

If you're treating everything as you go along....nothing should get out of control. If you always have something there to absorb the metals you shouldnt get too sick...same with the bugs. If you ignore the yeast, or the Lyme, or any co-infections...they will take advantage as the metals are moving out, freeing them up, and giving them more room to play.

So I don't have the high calcium low mercury pattern. But the high copper--how does that fit do you think?

I dont know how it fits...I know nothing about copper toxicity.

There seems to be alot of info. in this book I have so I'll have to see if I can learn anything. I'll PM you and let you know when I post anything I might learn.

This is what it says:

The behavioral effects of copper poisoning are indistinguishable from those of mercury. The symptoms of copper poisoning are readily confused with those of mercury and there are no distinctive differences. Blood, hair or urine elements distinctively show high copper in the presence of poisoning and do NOT show other patterns characteristic of mercury.

I dont know how someone gets copper poisoning...or how it fits in with everything else. It definately seems like something that should be addressed though. I'm sure the treatment would be different than with mercury.

You obviously have elevated mercury though...so I still think thats an issue contributing to the Lyme relapse. I have to find out more about the copper though cuz I'm not sure what that can do.

Also the question about Gluten-free Casein-free I wrote down...I'm keeping a list of all questions I want to ask.

I wont see Dr. Amy again until Sept. I'll see Anna (who also sees alot of Autistic/Gluten-free Casein-free/Lyme patients) in a few weeks...so I can ask her as well.

It seems like copper can do alot of what mercury does in the body. It also says that copper interacts with mercury in the body.

It says DMPS does increase copper excretion significantly...but DMSA does not.

I have to read more but hopefully you're detoxing better now that you're Gluten-free Casein-free and hopefully DMPS will be more effective in future treatments.

It says copper absorption can be reduced by excluding high copper foods, scrupulously avoiding copper in supplements, and taking 10-30 mgs of zinc and 250-1000 mcg of molybdenum with each meal.

I dont know which foods have high copper. I would check with the Dr. and see what he says.

It says the Carl Pfeiffer Center has extensive knowledge in treating copper toxic individuals and may be willing to cooperate with your Dr. to help him know how to treat you best. Theres a phone #...let me know if you want it.

Is it possible you were taking alot of copper in supplements?

It would be interesting to know if this is contributing to your symptoms. I guess if its indistinguishable from mercury and it does the same thing....its probably still a part of that "toxic world" so the DMPS is pulling those metals out and releasing the bugs.

Another question I wrote down..."Can all the metals (even copper) create an environment favorable for the bugs and can moving ANY of these metals still flare up bugs?"

Oh yeah...I do remember the Dr.'s saying that all the metals interact.....they have a synergistic effect and increase the toxicity of mercury greatly. Mercury is toxic by itself but in the presence of other metals its toxicity increases significantly.

Same with certain other neurotoxins...Aspertame also has a synergistic effect with mercury.

[miamia]

oh today was not a good day!!

I don;t know what it is - the testing / the stress of everything/ this weird juice i tried last night(not good)- but today has been horrible. I am just tryign to settle down now - but the good news is that i finally sent out my stool test and I sent out the urine test for the metals.

DOes anyone know if the DMPS and Gluthatine IVs i had yesturday could ahve caused a severe reaction?

I am definitly reacting badly to something

[tom]

Mia - quite a test-errific day for u recently!

You'll probably find out a ton! (Wow that was a lotta tests!)

Aaaaack! These guys' kitchen is horrendous!

And one has worked as a chef. Trained at some culinary school & everything!

<tom's doubting he can live w/ them>

Just how long *do* they plan on leaving that old beat-up & disgusting (used-to-be)salad in the fridge? <gag>

Getting ready to eat scrambled eggs, onions, grPepper w/ a Plastic Spoon!

Used a paper plate for a cutting bd, and only a dull knife was clean.

And back to

Andrea! I only saw a bit of your doc day - there's more right?

[dlp252]

I think of everyone here as a close friend....my extended family....we're in this together.

Ditto!

Yeah...I know I saw that in your post. Nice that he warned you about it AFTER you've already been taking it.

Anyways...I had seen ALA always mentioned in various protocols so I had bought it at WF before my appt. with Dr. Amy......cuz I wanted her to test it and see if it would work out for me.

I started reading more about it after I bought it and decided I wouldnt risk trying it. It said it doesnt form a strong bond with the mercury and causes redistribution if theres not another chelator taken with it. Everything I've read says it crosses the BBB and has a weak bond on its own.

The guy who wrote my book on mercury poisoning suggests a very specific protocol with ALA used in conjunction with DMSA (or sometimes DMPS)....but not ALA by itself.

Well, I'm not chelating with DMSA or DMPS but I am taking chlorella and am taking the pectin which is supposed to bind with the metals...still, I think it best to not take a lot of it. I'll be seeing Anna in a couple of weeks so I can ask her more about it.

ROFL, I'm watching Friends ... Joey just came into the coffee shop with makeup on. He has a job modeling for the health center .... someone mentioned that the asthma guy was cute then asked him what disease he would have. He said he didn't know but Lyme Disease was still open!

!!

Well I did the shot already...I guess I just stuck myself anywhere.

I guess it would be the lower/outer quadrant.

...

I cant watch the video from my home computer...dial-up...I forgot about that. I'll get a pause for "rebuffering" every 2 seconds...it sucks.

You are so brave fearless captain lymerdida! Glad it didn't hurt.

Yeah, stupid dial up...my friend sent me a card...can't open it til I get back to work tomorrow.

It is another beeeeeeeee-yuuuuu-teeee-Full day in sannozay!!!

Why yes it was!

I've very optomistic about this and like Dr. Elizabeth. She said she's been doing cold laser for 6 years and it was very easy to incorporate the LED. She was down at that training session. She thinks Scott is the greatest and is very pleased with his progress with ART testing.

...

If anyone wants the complete list of things message me.

Wow, sounds like a great appointment!!! I'm so excited about the LED!!! And, I agree that Scott is pretty cool, lol.

I definitely want to know the complete list!

Ugh runnin' around so much I gotta remember to not overextend.

Yes, definitely DON'T get overextended!

Ppppushht (dammit! What's the sound of almost spitting out water from surprise?)

I mean - in the middle of the :wub: lovefest this appears to insinuate that the level of support on *this* thread is inadequate???? I must be reading that wrong.

Orrrrrrrr it's not health-related!! Aha!

<muttering> . . . . ("women")

:lol:

<no1 heard that I hope - doesn't muttering mean "UNDER breath"?>

!!! "men"

Die bacteria die!

Love this...I think this should be our motto!!

[Rachel--24]

Short term plan : start detox w/modifilan? and support w/nutrition and ASYRA remedy.

start LED for detox and desensitization (LED does what it normally takes 50-100 days to do otherwise).

I need to try and get her to eat more veggies, any way I can. We are to continue the gluten-free/CF diet. She said whey protein would be a good thing to take. I forget what brand she mentioned and we forgot to stop by the store she mentioned. We did stop by WF which is only a few miles from there though.

Wow Andrea....how does T. feel after all this??

I think its AWESOME that Elizabeth is doing LED. As you know I wasnt too sure if it was LED or just cold laser that shes doing.

Sounds like she just incorporated LED after the seminar. So yeah...If Scott doesnt report good news I may be going up to Bellevue at some point. This is what Dr. Amy really thinks will give me the most benefit....mainly because of the Sulfa detox...its critical.

T. will have to avoid certain things to make sure the treatments work. You can review those emails I pm'd about the LED...it says you have to follow the program to a T.

I have more info. on LED if you want it. Its the article Scott has on his site.

I took Modifilan....it binds with heavy metals in the gut. Its a brown seaweed supplement used as a binder. I couldnt tolerate it but T.'s not as sensitive as I am.

I'm actually not surprised about the yeast...it explains alot.

I found it quite sad that she already has a problem with her adrenals.

She thinks Scott is the greatest and is very pleased with his progress with ART testing.

I think he's the greatest too!

If anyone wants the complete list of things message me.

I do.

All in all I'm pleased with how things went today.

YAY!

I'm glad you liked Elizabeth. Were you able to meet Amy at all?

I'm excited about the LED treatments too. I guess I can learn all about it from you and T....it'll give me a really good idea of what to expect.

[dlp252]

oh today was not a good day!!

I don;t know what it is - the testing / the stress of everything/ this weird juice i tried last night(not good)- but today has been horrible. I am just tryign to settle down now - but the good news is that i finally sent out my stool test and I sent out the urine test for the metals.

DOes anyone know if the DMPS and Gluthatine IVs i had yesturday could ahve caused a severe reaction?

I am definitly reacting badly to something

I think the DMPS alone could do it! Stress could too, but I suspect the DMPS.

Aaaaack! These guys' kitchen is horrendous!

And one has worked as a chef. Trained at some culinary school & everything!

<tom's doubting he can live w/ them>

Just how long *do* they plan on leaving that old beat-up & disgusting (used-to-be)salad in the fridge? <gag>

Getting ready to eat scrambled eggs, onions, grPepper w/ a Plastic Spoon!

Used a paper plate for a cutting bd, and only a dull knife was clean.

[tom]

oh today was not a good day!!

I don;t know what it is - the testing / the stress of everything/ this weird juice i tried last night(not good)- but today has been horrible.

Bummer miamia. I do believe that that much testing on me would make for a not-so-good next day.

Was the "weird juice" mangosteen? (with Xanthones!!!)

tomtom

[CarlaB]

Die bacteria die!

This is pretty much what I say when I'm at the gym on a bad Lyme day ... it keeps me motivated ... either I'm feeling good or bacteria are dying ... that's the way to keep positive!

Sorry you're feeling bad.

If you're going after the metals (chelation)...you're releasing the bugs. For some reason....the yeast and the bugs can get out of control when you do this.

Last month after my herx I felt great for a couple weeks ... the best I had felt in a LONG time. So, this month I started chelation. I never really bounced back to where I was last month. Starting a different abx I'm sure contributes ... hopefully the chelation won't take long.

Die, bugs, die.

DOes anyone know if the DMPS and Gluthatine IVs i had yesturday could ahve caused a severe reaction?

I am definitly reacting badly to something

Maybe it was the juice. The DMPS didn't make me feel bad, Chloe either ... but Rachel hasn't done it yet because they're worried about that kind of thing.

It could be the Glutathione though.

Hope you feel better soon.

Oh, and to join in on the hugfest

[Rachel--24]

DOes anyone know if the DMPS and Gluthatine IVs i had yesturday could ahve caused a severe reaction?

I am definitly reacting badly to something

Yes....of course....*anything* can cause a bad reaction.

DMPS is chelating metals...if you're heavy metal toxic and not excreting well...the metals could be causing the reaction.

The Gluathione could cause a reaction as well.

I'm kind of surprised they did DMPS IV....its powerful stuff. My Dr. wont even let me do this test with a small oral dose....let alone IV.

The IV would be a higher dose and ALOT of people do feel bad after DMPS IV.

They wont let me do IV glutathione yet either. They're going to retest me in a month to see if I'm ready for it yet.

I'm assuming they gave you the glutathione to help you detox the metals from the DMPS IV...but still...its alot for someone whos really fragile.

Also...the wierd juice....dont know what thats all about .... but like I said *anything* can cause a reaction.

At least those tests are out of the way. I hope you feel better soon.

[tom]

!!! "men"

Omg ROFL :lol: :lol:

(Can't believe I didn't anticipate/expect that!!) :lol: LMA!O

Edit -

P.S. What a pic Donna! Totally reminds me of my sister, on I-Oka St. in Mt. Prospect IL.

And Bev, just cuz I don't write it quick doesn't mean I don't feel bad about the herx.

As long as there's one o' them there silver-lined type clouds, it's good in the end, eh?

[tabasco32]

Hey everyone

Oh my goodness! Needed a fleets enyma for my torpedo today. Ugh. I was ssoo big and hard I can feel it going down the right side of me. hurt so bad, rectum bleeding, the whole bit. But I'm better now. It's going to be warm water enymas for me nightly now.

I can't believe even with miralax that stool was still big and hard. I totally have to go everyday now, no kidding. I think it could be the probiotic I take. I might have traces of milk on the bottle it says. Milk constipates me more. I dont think I can take it.

Hey

rachel

have you ever taken l-glutamine?

[AndreaB]

Die bacteria die!

Yes! You'll feel better after each one......Carla says so.

Well, I'm not chelating with DMSA or DMPS but I am taking chlorella and am taking the pectin which is supposed to bind with the metals...still, I think it best to not take a lot of it. I'll be seeing Anna in a couple of weeks so I can ask her more about it.

I forgot to mention Talitha didn't test well for pectins or chlorella. That's why she was given the modifilan. Between you and Rachel, you jogged my memory.

Wow Andrea....how does T. feel after all this??

I think its AWESOME that Elizabeth is doing LED. As you know I wasnt too sure if it was LED or just cold laser that shes doing.

Sounds like she just incorporated LED after the seminar. So yeah...If Scott doesnt report good news I may be going up to Bellevue at some point. This is what Dr. Amy really thinks will give me the most benefit....mainly because of the Sulfa detox...its critical.

T. will have to avoid certain things to make sure the treatments work. You can review those emails I pm'd about the LED...it says you have to follow the program to a T.

Talitha feels ok......straight from her mouth.

She just learned how to swallow pills tonight. She did good.

Yep, sulfa is important, which is why she's starting with it. There is quite a protocol before and after treatments. We were given a nice big printout that goes over all the LED treatments and what needs to be avoided before hand for each one.

I'll be glad to relay how it goes after our appointment next week. It's only about 1/2 hour appointment......with drive time it's about a 6-6 1/2 hour day.......depends on traffic. I'll be taking all the children since it's a short appointment. Mom's not to much into alternative treatments so I'll probably be taking them all the time.

She did say if I go in before Seth's weaned that she'll run both of us to see if he can tolerate treatments that I need. When I start depends on when Talitha finishes, if she doesn't take long I may be able to squeeze Micah in before me. I don't think he'll take long at all. I told her I'm having amalgams taken care of next year and wanted to come in before hand to see what would work best for me with detox.

All of us will go through this eventually.....one at a time.

[CarlaB]

Andrea, I'm glad this is working out for you with the appts. All in God's time.

I do feel better after each herx ... except the last one. But I think that's due to starting chelation and changing to an abx that will kill the bugs in my gut.