Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[tom]

He's talking about all Herxheimer reactions...or "die-off" when killing any microbes....there is no sub-set.

He links chronic candida infections directly to mercury....so yeah....his belief is that when you kill candida (or other bugs) with an antifungal, antiviral, antiparasitic, antibacterial...whatever kind of treatment....the "die-off" is nothing other than mercury being released from the cell wall of that organism and overwhelming the system.

Obviously the more you kill....the more you would release and the worse you would feel.

Candida is the organism found to have the highest ability to absorb mercury...hence his theory that chronic candida is the immune systems attempt to protect the body from the mercury.

I do find this latest theory so very interesting. Hadn't heard anything like it before.

The way it explains a number of different things w/ one straightforward scenario is what good theories are all about, IMHO.

And THEN(!), when it ALSO explains unexpected (surprising even, right?) data like the DMPS halting herx?!

Now THAT, ladies & gentlemen, is the hallmark of a good theory.

When new data is also explained w/out any adjustment required to the theory.

(Maybe I'm mixed up, but I thought the theory came b4 the DMPS/herx-halting info) (or maybe the connection was just seen after the theory was formulated w/out using the dmps data) (gah! Confusing myself now!!)

Regardless, it's very interesting to me.

I wonder what the proponents of the old bug-guts candida herx theory think of it . . . . . .

[Rachel--24]

From this page...

Open Original Shared Link

Since mercury, soon after entering the body (naturally or iatrogenic) is firmly 'bound in the nervous system (brain, spinal chord, peripheral motor and sensory ganglia, autonomic ganglia), it does not appear in the blood, hair, urine, feces, sweat or any other body fluids (except for a short period after acute exposure).

Therefore, a regular trace-element analysis of these body "compartments" will not show any mercury toxicity. There are to my knowledge currently 4 types of tests which can demonstrate CNS mercury toxicity:

(1) Placing fillings with radio-labeled mercury and subsequently scanning the brain/ spinal chord for radioactive emissions.

(2) Brain/spinal chord tissue biopsy and analysis.

(3) New MRl technology that scans the brain for spectral emissionS typical for mercury (based on resonance principles). A current research project studying amino-acids is under way at the University of Washington, Seattle using the same MRl technoiogy. The author has modified this technique into a low-tech manual approach referred to as "autonomic response testing" (A.R.T.) which uses the same resonance principles.

(4) Challenge tests with complexing or chelating agents (administration of appropriate agent followed by mercury urinalysis). Our clinical experience has shown that when a patient is mineral deficient (especially sodium, calcium or potassium), the body is unable to mobilize toxic metals with a challenge test!! The mineral status has to be corrected before successful mobilization for mercury should be attempted.

All four approaches have demonstrated significant levels of mercury in patients with a history of dental amalgam fillings.

There is no controversy about the fact that mercury in the CNS causes psychological, neurological and immunological problems in all humans.

The symptoms and literature are carefully reviewed in the 1994 publication by the U.s. Department of Health and Human Services entitled 'The toxicological profile of mercury.' The symptoms of mercury toxicity can be significantly amplified by the often accompanying presence of mercury sensitivity ("allergy").

Recent studies with the M.E.L.I.S.A. test, developed by Vera Stejskal at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, show that most humans become rather rapidly allergic to virtually all metals placed in the human body (mercury leads list, gold is #3!).

Skin testing appears to be completely inappropriate with large numbers negative" findings and should be discontinued because the results are misleading.

DMPS is a complexing agent developed in Russia with an abundance of international research data and an excellent safety record.

Preliminary results of the U.S. multi-center study show that mercury toxicity is very prevalent in the United States and appears to be a co-factor in a large variety of illnesses, especially illnesses associated with compromised function of the immune system (such as chronic viral and fungal syndromes).

DMPS appears to be extremely safe when used appropriately.

None of the, above mentioned agents (including D.M.S.A., which is not mentioned here) cross the blood brain barrier nor the barrier into certain body areas which are "compartmentalized" (areas of low perfusion). Therefore, these challenge tests are also inadequate to rule out CNS mercury toxicity. However, they can demonstrate connective tissue toxicity and vascular toxicity, which an unchallenged urine test cannot.

New developments:

The autonomic response testing, developed by D. Klinghardt and L. L. Williams - which was used to develop the current I.R.B. guided DMPS detox program - has led to new developments which allow the researcher to mobilize compartmentalized mercury in the CNS and other compartments.

[dlp252]

OMGosh Rachel...okay, for ONE YEAR now I've been looking for that STUPID NEW Whole Foods. You've told me where it is a few times and somehow I've never found it. Then yesterday, driving back from the flea market, my friend says, look at that HUGE Whole Foods. It's on Stevens Creek right?! (If not, then there's a really big new one there ). I was jsut at that Mervyns a few weeks ago and never even saw it.

Makes me wonder how I get anywhere to do anything?! A bit scarey actually. But totally lame brained and funny.

OMG....I *can* do this in less than 500 words.

Sorry, this was just worthy of a !

Regardless, it's very interesting to me.

I wonder what the proponents of the old bug-guts candida herx theory think of it . . . . . .

It's interesting to me to, and sort of makes sense in my specific case too. The very first time I went low carb, by it's nature it was anti-candida basically. I felt HORRIBLE to two weeks, and I think that's because I killed off a lot of candida very fast...at the time I wasn't taking anything else...no supplements or anything. Theory sort of makes sense that I killed a lot of candida and a good amount of mercury was released. I gradually felt better, then had more energy than I knew what to do with.

I was already basically low carb for quite a while when I went on the anti-candida diet, and then later on the anti-candida/rotation diet, so it makes sense that I wouldn't have a big herx and therefore no big release of bugs.

It also holds for most recently...going back on the candida diet, but more losely and not as drastic and/or strict, again no big die off and no big release.

At least that what my little fogged up mind is thinking, but somehow reading Dr. K's theory made sense on some level for my situation too.

[AndreaB]

I'm downloading right now....on my slow computer at home.

From what Gigi told me and from what I read its always starting with sulfa...then autoimmune stuff (I'm guessing T. didnt have autoimmunity problems?)...and then onto the major toxins...usually mercury first.

She did have some autoimmunity come up. If you look at the 2nd page of the ASYRA I sent you last week you'll see what those were. Toxic focus was red so that must be why she's concentrating on that right now.

OMG....I *can* do this in less than 500 words.

[Rachel--24]

(Maybe I'm mixed up, but I thought the theory came b4 the DMPS/herx-halting info) (or maybe the connection was just seen after the theory was formulated w/out using the dmps data) (gah! Confusing myself now!!)

This has been his theory for quite some time now. He used DMPS when people were having die-off from candida treatments because it was already his belief that the reactions were caused by heavy metals.

The fact that the DMPS immediately stopped the herxes was proof to him that his theory was correct.

I think for many many years now he's been treating his patients with the realization that the infections are secondary to the metals....and that they are all living together. If you disturb one thing....you disturb the other.

So yeah....when you kill a bunch of yeast you release metals....and likewise if you chelate metals you release the yeast...and the yeast does tend to flare-up during chelation...particularly in the beginning. It requires antifungal treatment throughout the process of detoxing the metals.

I wonder what the proponents of the old bug-guts candida herx theory think of it . . . . . .

I dont know.....many of them probably have never even heard this theory.

Also, for alot of people in the supplement business (including Naturopaths) candida is BIG business for them. There are so many things on the market for treating candida and so many practitioners diagnosing this as a single cause of disease...I think many of them would turn their backs on this even if there was scientific proof avaliable.

You can *feel* better on candida treatment....its long-term...you have to STAY on it to avoid the symptoms....so yeah....lots of supplements...and lots of $$.

Most of these people do not have the experience to treat heavy metal toxicity, Lyme Disease, etc...so they will go with the diagnosis of Candida and not look for a cause.

Fortunately all of the people I've seen for treatment over the last year and a half have looked at candida as a secondary infection....and did not waste my time (or theirs) focusing on the candida.

I did see a Naturopath a couple years ago...when I diagnosed myself with candida. I guess I needed someone to confirm this...and she did. I paid around $125 each time I saw her just to have her agree with me about candida and to have her support in saying I wasnt crazy and I was doing everything right to get myself better.

She did help me with other things...thyroid, food intolerance testing etc.....but never did she suggest there was a *root* cause for the candida infection...and never did she even test for candida. She took my word for it and diagnosed based on my symptoms and improvement on diet alone.

I dont think these Dr.'s that dont look beyond the superficial infection are the ones that get people well....but yeah....she did give me some of my sanity back after having been dealing with Kaiser for a couple years.

I asked my current M.D. about candida being a "protective" infection. He said he's heard the theory but does not know whether its true or not.

He does very much believe that the yeast are bound with the metals in the body and that they *do* get released when you treat one or the other. He's been doing these treatments for a number of years so he sees that patients get these flare-ups when you treat the yeast...or when you chelate the metals. They have to be done simultaniously.

He just doesnt know if the immune system actually "cultivates" the yeast to protect the body....or if the yeast just grows out of control because the metals are weakening the immune system and because there is a strong attraction between the two.

I dont think he has a strong opinion either way.

My other Dr. was trained by Klinghardt so I'm sure she considers yeast to be a protective infection...although I never asked her. She's talked me about the release of metals when killing the yeast and vice versa.....the need for treating everything simultaniously, etc.

[Rachel--24]

OMGosh Rachel...okay, for ONE YEAR now I've been looking for that STUPID NEW Whole Foods. You've told me where it is a few times and somehow I've never found it. Then yesterday, driving back from the flea market, my friend says, look at that HUGE Whole Foods. It's on Stevens Creek right?! (If not, then there's a really big new one there ). I was jsut at that Mervyns a few weeks ago and never even saw it.

Yeah....the new Whole Foods on Stevens Creek is either not open yet or has just opened up within the last week or so. It was supposed to open up sometime this month.

Its almost directly across the street from the old one...which is right next to Mervyns. The last time I was there (before my vacation) the old one was still open...the new one wasnt.

I dont think they've even been building it for a year.....you couldnt really tell it was gonna be a Whole Foods until just in the last couple months. So yeah...you could've drove past it a million times and had no idea it was Whole Foods...it just looked like construction.

So NO.....you're not totally oblivious (at least not this time ).....it just barely started looking like a Whole Foods....or even a grocery store.

If you've been looking for it the past year....you must be thinking of the one in Los Altos?? Its on El Camino....opened up last summer. Its also HUGE.....underground parking because of the location....but I think the new one on Stevens Creek is even bigger.

The Los Altos Whole Foods is only like a block or two up from Dr. S.'s office. I shop at both the Los Altos and Cupertino stores.

[tom]

OMGosh Rachel...okay, for ONE YEAR now I've been looking for that STUPID NEW Whole Foods. You've told me where it is a few times and somehow I've never found it. Then yesterday, driving back from the flea market, my friend says, look at that HUGE Whole Foods. It's on Stevens Creek right?! (If not, then there's a really big new one there ). I was jsut at that Mervyns a few weeks ago and never even saw it.

I didn't know one was on Stevens Creek either. Always went to the Bascom one - straight shot down SW expy for me.

I'd guess it's that part of S.Creek that's after it goes under 280 tho (well, from my perspective - usually east of there). So west of 280.

Did it really look much bigger from the car than the usual?

The ones I've been to seem mostly same size. (Bascom, Az, Monterey, hmmm another?)

[Edit -

P.S. Ahhh it's NEW!! Then again I never its precursor across the street was there either]

[CarlaB]

If you have a bunch of metals floating around your body....then yes...a shot of DMPS can very quickly and effectively grab onto those metals and hopefully you can then excrete them.

Okay, so the chelator also grabs the metals, so that makes sense.

All of those things...including ALA are not used by themselves....they are not effective all on their own.

Yes, my doc didn't want me taking NAC or ALA until I was also taking a chelator.

I'm guessing since you're killing off bugs and maybe releasing metals (since you do experience herxes)...that the NAC and ALA are binding with those metals...they're not necessarily chelating. ALA could just be moving stuff around from one place to the next....the NAC is capable of the same thing....the protein from diet and from whey would help with this.

He says the NAC can chelate, but the idea is to take it with a chelator.

The Detoxamin (never heard of it but I did check out your link) seems to contain EDTA. This would likely be a very weak chelator in comparison with other things...so its not likely to overwhelm your system. Dr. K. considers IV EDTA to be weak in comparison to other chelators so I'm guessing a pill would be slower....not really sure though? The Detoxamin is probably very safe but very slow. I dont think EDTA is effective for all forms of mercury....its used primarily for lead but can chelate some mercury as well.

Actually, it's not a pill, it's a suppository ... think of the coffee enema ... this is an efficient way of getting it to tissue, where it needs to be. It's no less effective than the IV EDTA.

I was primarily toxic in lead, which is why they are using the mild chelator. I tested low on mercury ... it was there, but was very low. Lead is easier to chelate from what I'm told.

Klinghardt discussed NAC and strongly cautioned its use.....he also said he feels Glutathione is highly overrated...he hasnt seen anything to suggest what they're saying about it is true. Basically it hasnt made much of a difference in his patients.

There is conflicting information on this. I've also seen doctors say that IV glutathione helps tremendously. It may be one of those things that some things work for some, and other things work for others.

I've also read that the precursors are better at working than the glutathione itself ... that the glutathione doesn't get absorbed into the tissues where it needs to be, but if you give your body the tools, it can make the glutathione itself.

I think Klinghardt has a lot of good points and research, but so do others .... and opinions differ since they're still all trying to figure this out. I think we can take some good information from Dr. K, but we also need a well-rounded look at other theories as well.

The stuff you're taking would then be effective in binding with it....there is no chelating involved.

No, I'm taking a chelator, too. Detoxamin is used over a period of months.

OMG....I *can* do this in less than 500 words.

[tom]

You can *feel* better on candida treatment....its long-term...you have to STAY on it to avoid the symptoms....so yeah....lots of supplements...and lots of $$.

My own experience w/ candida was pretty short time of direct treatment, except for the diet. Diet very long-term here.

I'm not even totally avoiding the detergent aisle anymore. Used to hold my breath if I had to go *near* it.

So unless "treatment" in the quote above means diet OR supplements, I'll have to respectfully disagree.

No supplements for me in a very long time.

Just basic vitamins. Not even a probiotic for months.

[Rachel--24]

He says the NAC can chelate, but the idea is to take it with a chelator.

Yeah....exactly. An effective chelator should be able to pull out the metals and then also remain firmly bound to the metals so that that can be removed from the body. NAC can do these things but its not necessarily an effective chelator if its dragging the metals into the brain or into other areas of the body....instead of getting rid of them.

Thats why he's saying you need alot of other things in place when using something like that...DMPS or DMSA....and the foundation of minerals, amino acids, fatty acids, etc.

Those things arent theories....those are proven scientifically. Each thing plays a role in getting the metals safely out of the body.

Of course any Dr. can just go ahead and do whatever they want...they can just start IV DMPS and do nothing else....it doesnt mean it will be successful and it doesnt mean there wont be harm to the patient.

The stuff Dr. K. is talking about is not just what works....but works most effectively and with the least amount of risk to the patient. Some Dr.'s arent necessarily thinking about safety....and others might be doing things that are very safe but not actually effective in removing the metals.

I've also seen doctors say that IV glutathione helps tremendously. It may be one of those things that some things work for some, and other things work for others.

My Dr. does alot of Glutathione IV's...he said he has one patient who comes in every week to get the IV because its the only thing that clears up her chemical sensitivities.....but she has to get it every week.

So yeah...it might help people in certain ways. Dr. K was talking about chelation.... as far as that he says glutathione isnt doing much.

He says he's done more heavy metal challenges (urine, hair and stool) then anyone else in the world cuz he's been doing it for over 32 years....I think he has a good idea of whats working to get rid of the metal toxicity. Glutathione is helpful...he said that....but if you're trying to detox somebody...theres much better ways to do it.

I've also read that the precursors are better at working than the glutathione itself ... that the glutathione doesn't get absorbed into the tissues where it needs to be, but if you give your body the tools, it can make the glutathione itself.

This is true to...but then it works very very slowly to actually decrease the heavy metal burden.

Its the difference between years and years of detoxing and maybe 1-2 years to be rid of the metals.....with more effective chelators and the proper foundation.

I think Klinghardt has a lot of good points and research, but so do others .... and opinions differ since they're still all trying to figure this out. I think we can take some good information from Dr. K, but we also need a well-rounded look at other theories as well.

Yeah...people should really be pro-active and do reasearch and see whats out there as far as treatment and success rates. Nobody has to take Dr. Klinghardt's word...or anything I post from him as "Gospel".

I just post it to make it available for everyone reading. If other people know of things that seem to be working really well for people....then its good to share that stuff. I'm interested in *everything*.

I do think Dr. K. is one of only a couple in the world with this kind of experience in heavy metal detox. If he was unsuccessful in what he does I dont think he would have that world-wide recognition.....especially being on the alternative side.

I just tend to gravitate towards what makes the most sense to me....and also results....Dr. K. has undeniablely good results with detoxification from metals and infections. I'm not so much looking for theories or opinions....even though I'm interested in all this....ultimitaely I DO wanna get better....so in the end results matters more to me than anything else.

Thats why I'm trying to absorb everything I can from those who are having high success rates. I'm just sharing as I go along.....other people can do the same....obviously nobody has to base their treatment on anything Dr. K. does or says.

I've posted about Dr. Cowden's stuff too... I'll be trying those treatments to see what they can do for me.

All that I know for sure from everything I've learned is that focusing on one thing is not enough....so I'm trying to look at the whole picture.

[dlp252]

I now have metallic navy blue toes...I'm experimenting with a white stripe...hoping THAT turns out. Will make white flowers later.

Mia sent me some info on Goatein (she's having some trouble posting I think)...she read my question about the undenatured protein in other forms. I saw some at WF today, but didn't buy it because it didn't specifically say it was undenatured... She sent me a link with some info and it specifically mentioned the denatured status of most protein powders and the way it was worded (although didn't specifically say so), it sounds like it might be similar to undenatured whey.

The Nutritional Science Behind Goatein [TM]

Biologically active proteins make up much but not all the nutrient components in Goatein [TM]. As mentioned, this product furnishes the only available protein powder that comes from organically-raised goat's milk. All other milk products consumed in North America are manufactured from bovine sources or from vegetables such as rice. Goatein [TM] is minimally processed. Most other milk protein powders are made from cow's milk and, even though cow's milk manufacturers claim that their product is "minimally processed," they may use several invasive processing steps, including heating at high temperatures. These methods denature many important amino acids and destroy enzymes and beneficial bacteria. Research suggests that processing whey with heat and acid (i.e. ion-exchange) results in the loss of several key amino acids including 73% to 77% of cysteine, 35% to 45% of threonine, 18% to 30% of seine, and 19% to 20% of lysine. Because Goatein [TM] is processed without the use of acid or excessive heat, the amino a cids, enzymes, and beneficial bacteria remain in their natural form.

I'm thinking of trying some of this and may show it to Dr. S to see what he thinks.

Yeah....the new Whole Foods on Stevens Creek is either not open yet or has just opened up within the last week or so. It was supposed to open up sometime this month.

Its almost directly across the street from the old one...which is right next to Mervyns. The last time I was there (before my vacation) the old one was still open...the new one wasnt.

I dont think they've even been building it for a year.....you couldnt really tell it was gonna be a Whole Foods until just in the last couple months. So yeah...you could've drove past it a million times and had no idea it was Whole Foods...it just looked like construction.

So NO.....you're not totally oblivious (at least not this time ).....it just barely started looking like a Whole Foods....or even a grocery store.

If you've been looking for it the past year....you must be thinking of the one in Los Altos?? Its on El Camino....opened up last summer. Its also HUGE.....underground parking because of the location....but I think the new one on Stevens Creek is even bigger.

The Los Altos Whole Foods is only like a block or two up from Dr. S.'s office. I shop at both the Los Altos and Cupertino stores.

Oh good, I totally thought I was losing my mind!! I knew I've been more foggy brained than usually lately, but didn't really think it could be THAT bad. The old one was still open...couldn't tell if the new one was open or not, but the signs were up and all, and I'm pretty sure NONE of that was up last time I was by there.

Well, you just won't believe it (or maybe you will ) but I DID think you said the other one was on El Camino and that's where I've been looking and I STILL haven't ever seen it. I think when I drive I just can't look well...takes all my concentration to drive.

I didn't know one was on Stevens Creek either. Always went to the Bascom one - straight shot down SW expy for me.

I'd guess it's that part of S.Creek that's after it goes under 280 tho (well, from my perspective - usually east of there). So west of 280.

Did it really look much bigger from the car than the usual?

The ones I've been to seem mostly same size. (Bascom, Az, Monterey, hmmm another?)

[Edit -

P.S. Ahhh it's NEW!! Then again I never its precursor across the street was there either]

Yeah, I always shop at the Bascom Ave store because that's just a couple of blocks from me, but sometimes I'd like to hit one of the newer bigger stores and this one is sort of on my way home, especially if I have a chiropractic appointment.

[CarlaB]

Thats why he's saying you need alot of other things in place when using something like that...DMPS or DMSA....and the foundation of minerals, amino acids, fatty acids, etc.

Yeah, I'm on all this stuff, too. When I told him I was taking daily saunas, getting enough minerals was a concern of his. Saunas also chelate, and the sweat takes out minerals.

I do think Dr. K. is one of only a couple in the world with this kind of experience in heavy metal detox. If he was unsuccessful in what he does I dont think he would have that world-wide recognition.....especially being on the alternative side.

This is true ... as far as heavy metals go. I just don't know that I can agree that all major chronic health issues are due to heavy metals. It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be that simple.

I know heavy metals can make you that sick, but I think other things can, too. I think that we all have a different balance of problems.

I know I've simplified this and that he looks at other things, too, but his focus IS metals. I think you relate so much to this because your illness began with heavy metals. Mine began this time with stress and abx, and my heavy metal issues are minor, though they were major back in '91.

I would trust him more than anyone else in the world if heavy metals were my primary problem.

Okay, I'm throwing something else out there ... many on Lymenet think babs herxes are the worst. Does babs bind to metals more than borrelia?

All that I know for sure from everything I've learned is that focusing on one thing is not enough....so I'm trying to look at the whole picture.

True.

[Rachel--24]

My own experience w/ candida was pretty short time of direct treatment, except for the diet. Diet very long-term here.

I'm not even totally avoiding the detergent aisle anymore. Used to hold my breath if I had to go *near* it.

So unless "treatment" in the quote above means diet OR supplements, I'll have to respectfully disagree.

No supplements for me in a very long time.

Just basic vitamins. Not even a probiotic for months.

I'm talking about people who are seeking help from Naturopaths, health stores, stuff like that. *Most* people on the candida program will be taking some supplements. I'm sure when you were diagnosed with candida you were on some things right??

It doesnt sound like you're currently seeing anyone for treatment so this wouldnt apply to you. I was talking about people seeking treatment for symptoms and getting diagnosed and treated for only candida infections.

Of course if people are self-treating they can do what they want...eat what they want...supplement what they want.

If people are seeking help from Naturopaths or even looking for answers online....the treatments are *always* including supplements....Theralac, Threelac, Lame Advertisement, YeastDefense, Oil of Oregano, Collodial Silver, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Pau d arco.....I could seriously go on all day with products used for chronic candida.

The point is that these things help.....but if they're not "curing" the problem...then it all adds up to alot of money in the long run....with no real results. I know cuz I've been there and I tried all this stuff...and yeah....I still have candida.

Even though the diet had nothing to do with what I was saying...its still a form of treatment...if you have to do it forever....then its not really a cure. I can "manage" my candida in the same way....but it doesnt correct the situation and I really dont want to be on a candida diet all my life.

Holy heck....even the thought of doing that would make me just throw my hands up.

I realize some people are able to accept so many restrictions.....but I think we all know I'm not cut out to be one of those people. I wanna be racheling me some pizza!!

[CarlaB]

I realize some people are able to accept so many restrictions.....but I think we all know I'm not cut out to be one of those people. I wanna be racheling me some pizza!!

NOBODY wants the restrictions!!!

We went to dinner to Maggianos Friday night. The chef at our local one has a MIL who has celiac disease and he's appalled at how celiacs get treated at restaurants, so he personally makes up for this at his restaurant.

When we walked in, he happened to be walking by the reception desk and immediately stopped and greeted us. He said he'd look for us in the restaurant.

A few minutes later, he saw us sitting in the bar waiting for a table ... he asked how long they said the wait was, said that was no good, and we were seated in just a few minutes at one of the best tables.

He always has gluten-free brownies -- all celiacs get free dessert , but knows I can't have sugar, so personally brought out a beautiful plate of fruit for Adam and I to share.

Anyway, I got sidetracked. I was going to say that when I'm out and I'm feeling as good as I have been, it's REALLY difficult to NOT DRINK!! I grew up in a family where a cocktail before dinner and a glass of wine with dinner was not unusual ... well, most just had wine, but my grandfather and I always had a rum and Coke.

I have to tell myself that Dr. B's guidelines say that the top three reasons people don't heal from Lyme are alcohol, lack of rest, and non-compliance. That's the only thing that keeps me from having a couple drinks.

I have a friend locally who has Lyme and so does her daughter. Her daughter was having seizures last summer and they finally figured out it was from Lyme. Anyway, when I asked the mother how the daughter's doing, she always tells me that when her daughter starts feeling better she isn't as good at taking her meds. and has a setback.

So, the daughter was here for Chloe's birthday party ... I asked her how her mom was doing (you know, Lymies don't get out much, and neither of us likes the telephone). Her daughter told me her mother is doing better, but she doesn't always take her meds.

So, I guess non-compliance is a big issue ... I'd bet that has something to do with some of the people on LN, too.

It's funny, when we eat out, I just pull my Mepron out of my purse and my measuring spoon and take it right at the table. The first time I went out, I went to the bathroom with it, but the other people in the bathroom were trying to get away from me as quickly as possible ... so now I just take it at the table ... everyone is too busy to notice and I don't traumatize anyone this way!

[dlp252]

I realize some people are able to accept so many restrictions.....but I think we all know I'm not cut out to be one of those people. I wanna be racheling me some pizza!!

Yep, I think I belong to the same club.

[TreeC]

Hi,

I've been diagnosed with Celiac for 4 yrs. Been really careful - my family still consumes gluten and I cook for them etc. I just started last week pulling out corn - boy, there isn't much left. I'm not having any dairy, eggs or poultry - beef (unless grass fed). I still have the runs. Had them for so long now! LOL! I'm working on using gluten-free/Corn-free products on my skin, hair etc. I have to find a dish soap/DW det too! Any suggestions? Anyone else still having the runs after being gluten-free? My sister was diagnosed first - had the biopsy too, I only went on blood work - since it was in the family. She's feeling fine - very few reactions. She also using organic dairy products too. I was trying organic milks, eggs.

Thanks

Tree in ME

[happygirl]

tree---

try www.gfsoap.com. Their products are gluten-free, cf, corn free, etc.

[Rachel--24]

Mia sent me some info on Goatein (she's having some trouble posting I think)...she read my question about the undenatured protein in other forms.

Hey.....I read a book like 3 years ago by Jordan Rubin "Patient Heal Thyself".

He talked all about Goatein in that book. I think its good stuff but I ended up getting turned off by the fact that he heavily promoted it in his book and then I found out its his own company "Garden Of Life" that puts it out....so I never actually tried it.

I got skeptical but was still curious about it. I ended up finding it in a health store by my house...this was when I was on disability and it had a BIG price tag attached to it....so I got mad at Jordin Rubin again.

Anyways....from what you posted it sounds really good and it might be perfect for you. At least if you're getting it from WF and it doesnt work out...they're really good about the returns.

Well, you just won't believe it (or maybe you will ) but I DID think you said the other one was on El Camino and that's where I've been looking and I STILL haven't ever seen it. I think when I drive I just can't look well...takes all my concentration to drive.

The one on El Camino is pretty easy to miss...because its on El Camino it just doesnt seem to take up alot of space...even though its actually really big....pretty much ALL of the parking is underground...with a tiny little lot in the front that might park 20 cars.

During the busier times they have people directing traffic in the parking area because of how its situated. I dont even attempt to park in front...I always go straight underground and have no problems parking.

If you drive past Dr. S.'s office its only about a block up....on the same side...right next to Sees's Candy....it doesnt jump out at you....you cant get an idea of how big it is from the street.

This is true ... as far as heavy metals go. I just don't know that I can agree that all major chronic health issues are due to heavy metals. It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be that simple.

Simple??

Hehe...if only.

I dont think heavy metals is simple at all....and its extremely difficult to find any Dr.'s who know how to deal with it. Just in my area.....we only know of Dr. S.....and even HE admits that he cant do it w/out the help of the alternative testing and treatments.

Its super hard to diagnose and ART seems to be the only way to actually locate the metals in specific parts of the body.

The challenge tests can only pull out whats in the blood or some connective tissue...they cant get to whats stored deeper or in the brain. So yeah....its freakin hard to find the metals....and if there are issues not allowing the body to let go of the metals...they're just not gonna come out.

If it was simple I would be better by now.

I know I've simplified this and that he looks at other things, too, but his focus IS metals. I think you relate so much to this because your illness began with heavy metals. Mine began this time with stress and abx, and my heavy metal issues are minor, though they were major back in '91.

His focus is actually getting people better. He spent alot of time on Lyme and other things...there is a great deal of focus on Autism. The geopathic stressors are a major part of what he looks at...he says its even worse than the metals.

Its all a puzzle.....it just happens that the metals are always there and he's learned that he cant get people better without getting rid of the metals. He's never looking at Lyme patients or Autistic kids and NOT finding metals. Thats what he's saying.

The other practitioners who are using ART and energetic testing are saying the same things...that the metals are always there.

Even if my Lyme infection were extremely active and even if my CD57 were a 2....I would still be putting the attention on the metals as being the *root* cause. My Dr.'s would be doing the same....although obviously we would be more aggressively treating the Lyme.

My candida infection is very severe....but I'm not putting alot of focus on that because I know I cant clear it with the metals in my body....all I can really do is take the antifungals and try not to feed it.

I wasnt saying anything to you about your situation or how or why you got sick. I was just answering your questions with the information that I have. You dont have to apply it to yourself.

I would trust him more than anyone else in the world if heavy metals were my primary problem.

Theres a great deal of talk on LymeNET about the heavy metals...and I only know of one person there who is actually a patient of Dr. K.'s. He's not the only Dr. or LLMD addressing metals while treating Lyme. He's just got a little more experience in *finding* the metals when they're not showing up in traditional testing.

I think most of the LLMD's are aware that theres a strong link between the metals and the infections.

I know Scott had an interview with Dr. Garry Gordon. He's the father of IV chelation....the world leader in IV and oral chelation. The interview was about the relationship between heavy metals and Lyme.

For sure theres a strong link.....its undeniable and a good portion of the people on LymeNet are also being treated for heavy metals....by Dr.'s all over the country...(who are not Dr. K).

Dr. K. doesnt just treat heavy metals....he treats chronic illness....infections, neurological conditions, autism, psychological issues, etc.....the whole realm of it. If his focus was *just* heavy metals he would be unsuccessful.

Okay, I'm throwing something else out there ... many on Lymenet think babs herxes are the worst. Does babs bind to metals more than borrelia?

I dont know if thats ever been studied. They have looked at different organisms and their capabilities for absorbing metals. Fungus/molds was at the top and then theres a list from there...different organisms have higher or lower abilities to absorb the metals. I dont know if spirochetes were part of the study...or if certain parasites like Babesia were involved or not.

I would assume a parasite and a spirochete wouldnt have the same abilities for absorption....one would probably be higher than the other....but I dont know which.

If people are seeking help from Naturopaths or even looking for answers online....the treatments are *always* including supplements....Theralac, Threelac, Lame Advertisement, YeastDefense, Oil of Oregano, Collodial Silver, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Pau d arco.....I could seriously go on all day with products used for chronic candida.

Sheeeesh....why is "Candi-Gone" a lame advertisement and the others perfectly acceptable??

[CarlaB]

Simple??

Hehe...if only.

I dont think heavy metals is simple at all....and its extremely difficult to find any Dr.'s who know how to deal with it.

I didn't mean metals were simple to get rid of or diagnose.

He's not the only Dr. or LLMD addressing metals while treating Lyme.

I know, mine does, too. I was just saying that he's very respectable in the field. I guess I'm just getting misunderstood in everything I'm saying.

[Rachel--24]

I guess I'm just getting misunderstood in everything I'm saying.

Yeah....I could very well be misinterpreting....it wouldnt be the first time and I can pretty much guarantee it wont be the last.

You say 10 words....I say 1,000.

My mind just goes in a gazzillion directions....theres no stopping it.

[CarlaB]

Yeah....I could very well be misinterpreting....it wouldnt be the first time and I can pretty much guarantee it wont be the last.

Yeah, it seems like you think I'm always arguing with you.

I was researching what my doctor says about metals ... came across this and thought it was interesting. It dates back to 2004, so new stuff has been discovered since then, I'm sure.

Dr H closed his talk on a hopeful note, mentioning that for the first time in 20 years, he has seen evidence of a possible treatment solution occurring right before his eyes, "in my office during the last 30 days."

A patient had come in who suffered from Lou Gehrig's disease, and was given glutathione by intravenous injection to remove heavy metals stored in his brain cells.

"Neurotoxins produced by the Borrelia spirochete, or Lyme disease bacterium, also interact with heavy metals in our cells," Dr H pointed out.

After being given the IV dose, the patient showed 90 percent improvement within ten minutes. His joint pain was gone and his cognitive symptoms improved markedly.

"We repeated the experiment doing a double blind test with saline instead of the glutathione," Dr H said, adding that the results were encouraging and consistent. "All these chemicals in our bodies cause inflammation, and glutathione seems to act like a sponge that pulls them out. I'm very excited about this."

[Rachel--24]

I was researching what my doctor says about metals ... came across this and thought it was interesting. It dates back to 2004, so new stuff has been discovered since then, I'm sure.

I read that....I think someone posted it on LymeNET...I may have posted it here with all the glutathione scientificness a few weeks back.

Thats why I got all excited about it and asked my Dr. about it. I still plan on trying it and they already said they're gonna be adding in glutathione (I didnt test ok for it last time) at some point.

I'm just not expecting miracles from it now...seems like most people dont notice dramatic improvement from it...but I still think its good to add in with the rest of the stuff. It cant hurt.

My Dr. only mentioned that one lady having noticeable improvement from it.

[dlp252]

Well my flowers and stripes turned out reasonably well. Next time I really MUST do this over two days...like everything else, I rachelled painting my nails....too much in a hurry to get it all done.

Hi,

I've been diagnosed with Celiac for 4 yrs. Been really careful - my family still consumes gluten and I cook for them etc. I just started last week pulling out corn - boy, there isn't much left. I'm not having any dairy, eggs or poultry - beef (unless grass fed). I still have the runs. Had them for so long now! LOL! I'm working on using gluten-free/Corn-free products on my skin, hair etc. I have to find a dish soap/DW det too! Any suggestions? Anyone else still having the runs after being gluten-free? My sister was diagnosed first - had the biopsy too, I only went on blood work - since it was in the family. She's feeling fine - very few reactions. She also using organic dairy products too. I was trying organic milks, eggs.

Thanks

Tree in ME

Hello Tree, welcome! Yes, I had D for over a year after going gluten AND casein free. At about the 6 month mark I started figuring out that there was something else involved...I stumbled on this thread and we've been discovering things about my health situation since then. I first thought it might be corn, maybe histamines, candida, mercury... I tried an elmination diet, but I couldn't get to a point where I wasn't reacting to something. I finally did some alternative testing, which helped me figure out what foods to avoid and what other issues might be contributing. I felt better but still had the D. The alternative testing also led me to a doctor who tested me for a BUNCH of stuff (by blood test, lol) and it was found that I have mold toxicity, metals toxicity, lyme and some mineral/vitamin imbalances.

I was started on a lot of supplements and herbs to strengthen my immune system and my body's natural ability to detox. My D has finally (just in the last couple of weeks) gone away...in fact it's kind of gone the other way now.

Hey.....I read a book like 3 years ago by Jordan Rubin "Patient Heal Thyself".

He talked all about Goatein in that book. I think its good stuff but I ended up getting turned off by the fact that he heavily promoted it in his book and then I found out its his own company "Garden Of Life" that puts it out....so I never actually tried it.

I got skeptical but was still curious about it. I ended up finding it in a health store by my house...this was when I was on disability and it had a BIG price tag attached to it....so I got mad at Jordin Rubin again.

Anyways....from what you posted it sounds really good and it might be perfect for you. At least if you're getting it from WF and it doesnt work out...they're really good about the returns.

The one on El Camino is pretty easy to miss...because its on El Camino it just doesnt seem to take up alot of space...even though its actually really big....pretty much ALL of the parking is underground...with a tiny little lot in the front that might park 20 cars.

During the busier times they have people directing traffic in the parking area because of how its situated. I dont even attempt to park in front...I always go straight underground and have no problems parking.

If you drive past Dr. S.'s office its only about a block up....on the same side...right next to Sees's Candy....it doesnt jump out at you....you cant get an idea of how big it is from the street.

Yeah, this article hypes Goatein a lot too. I haven't reasearched to see if there is any connection between the author and Rubin though. The article is called Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients: Goatein Provides Optimal Amounts of Absorbable Protein, by Morton Walker.

I still may try it, but still plan to ask Dr. S about it. I mean is there something special in the whey, and is this supplying the same thing...or is it just the amino acids and not destroying them that makes the whey work?

The article also mentioned that people who are lactose intolerant may be able to tolerate this...at least I think I read that. Heck that was a couple of hours and a few coats of nail polish fumes inhaled ago...who can remember now.

Here's the link: Open Original Shared Link

[dlp252]

Ha, no stinkin fumes can totally wipe out my memory...this is what I read...it was specifically ONE person's response, so not really a statement about all lactose intolerant persons:

"She currently supplements any form of protein she ingests with Goatein [TM] because even today, this surgical nurse is unable to eat any other animal-derived products -- no yogurt, cow's milk, eggs, fish, shellfish, meat, or poultry. Moreover, the patient is highly lactose-intolerant, but she finds Goatein [TM] to be quite digestible as the mainstay of her diet. It is a minimally processed product that does not cause excitation to a lactose intolerant bowel. Truly, I am an enthusiastic advocate of using Goatein [TM] for any chemically sensitive patients," affirms Dr. Gloria Gilbere.

[Rachel--24]

I still may try it, but still plan to ask Dr. S about it. I mean is there something special in the whey, and is this supplying the same thing...or is it just the amino acids and not destroying them that makes the whey work?

Its the proteins...the amino acids. Other whey powders would have the same stuff but if they're denatured they just wouldnt serve the same purpose in the body. All the benefits would have been removed with the processing.

I think Garden Of Life makes good quality products...I've never heard anything bad about Goatein. It seems like the main thing about the whey products is that alot of them are denatured but yet they advertise otherwise...that would be the main thing to watch out for or look into.

If the protein in Goatein hasnt been altered in any way then I think it should have all the same benefits.

The article also mentioned that people who are lactose intolerant may be able to tolerate this...at least I think I read that. Heck that was a couple of hours and a few coats of nail polish fumes inhaled ago...who can remember now.

Well...you were really making me miss painting my nails ....until I got to this part about the fumes.

Yeah....I wont be attempting that anytime soon.

and Carla...good thing I'm not EVER tempted by alcohol....could you imagine if I was!!

Racheling alcohol would not be a good situation.

I think alcohol has a worse affect on me then anything else I could eat or drink...so I definately dont get tempted. Even if everyone around me is drinking I dont think I've ever even contemplated having a sip....its WAY too much of a heinosity from what I can remember.

Hopefully I'll be able to have a beer again someday! A margarita....A White Russian!! Yeah...I *do* miss the stuff....just not tempted in the least.