Liver Cause Of Celiac Did Anyone See This Site?!

[merlin23]

I actually agree with this kind of thinking and it has kept our family out of the doctor's office for years. However, I can tell you that it's different with Celiac. I was eating healthy, with proper food combining, lots of raw fruits and vegetables, juicing, etc., thinking this way of living would make me healthy and make the fatigue go away. I think it helped with my general health, but I still got very sick. So, on a certain level, I agree with you. I think a celiac would benefit from having a healthy immune system, eating right, etc., HOWEVER I do not believe a celiac could then go back and eat gluten. Yea, it would take some time to get sick again, but the gluten is poison to someone who has the genetic tendency toward celiac disease. There are limitations to natural hygeine, although the concept is a good one.

Others have also raised valid questions on the safety of a celiac doing the cleanse.

Interesting. I have read other reports on the health benefits of coffee -- it was always my excuse for drinking it! I don't have a problem with soy ... yet ... so I'm still off the coffee since I need cream. I'll probably have some once in a while, but I think it's better right now for me to restrict my soy. I know once I get started again, I'll want it every day!

That's a fair enough. It's pretty apparent I know diddly about the different types of celiac cases so I'm not gonna argue there. Celiac disease does seem pretty acute and I can imagine would be an extremely stubborn ailment to rectify, especially the cases when even the slightest ingestion of something like a biscuit can cause major problems. I'm not sure where I stand on this, but Andreas Moritz, the guy whose views have become mine and is one of the advocates of liver flushing, believes cleansing the liver of stones can even reset genetics. He thinks it is that significant. As I said, I'm not sure.

He also believes that you can have the greatest diet in the world but if your liver function is compromised then you are still susceptible to ailments and conditions such as cancer. This could explain why people who have good diets and healthy lifestyle seem to inexplicably be struck down with serious diseases. Liver cleansing is vital if good diet and lifestyle is going to make a significant difference.

[CarlaB]

That's a fair enough. It's pretty apparent I know diddly about the different types of celiac cases so I'm not gonna argue there. Celiac disease does seem pretty acute and I can imagine would be an extremely stubborn ailment to rectify, especially the cases when even the slightest ingestion of something like a biscuit can cause major problems. I'm not sure where I stand on this, but Andreas Moritz, the guy whose views have become mine and is one of the advocates of liver flushing, believes cleansing the liver of stones can even reset genetics. He thinks it is that significant. As I said, I'm not sure.

He also believes that you can have the greatest diet in the world but if your liver function is compromised then you are still susceptible to ailments and conditions such as cancer. This could explain why people who have good diets and healthy lifestyle seem to inexplicably be struck down with serious diseases. Liver cleansing is vital if good diet and lifestyle is going to make a significant difference.

I'm one of those who gets sick off a crumb. As far as resetting genetics, maybe he can reset mine so that my eyes are bluer and my hair blonder

You would enjoy Garden of Life. It's an old book written back in the 30's all about cleansing to regain health and beat cancer. Do a search for natural hygeine. It's intersting stuff and works to an extent. I'm sure your philosophy is the same, a lot of truth, but with limitations.

[ravenwoodglass]

I'm not sure where I stand on this, but Andreas Moritz, the guy whose views have become mine and is one of the advocates of liver flushing, believes cleansing the liver of stones can even reset genetics.

I think your choice of the name Merlin was quite appropriate. It would take quite a feat of magic to 'reset' our genetic code. You are of course entitled to your opinion on these things, and they may of course benefit some. But anyone who tried to sell me on anything by saying it will change the genes that my ancestors worked so hard to pass down to me would not get very far.

[utdan]

There are seemingly never ending debates over where disease starts and where it could be cured. One thing is sure...no one knows for sure what exactly goes on fully 100%. That said, I'll throw in something some may find boring and some interesting:

A newly minted Ph.d. researcher had an inspiration about the cause of lung cancer in smokers. In smokers immunity cells called macrophages attack the invaders of the chemicals from ciggarettes. Macrophages not only attack, but they multiply at a very rapid rate to be up to the task. In replicating themselves, a complete set of DNA has to be replicated with each of the new cells. She made a hypothesis that since the macrophages were the only cells that came close to replicating as fast as the cancer cells then maybe the lung cancer cells are really just macrophages that have gone awry. She turned out to be right. Later, she co-authored a scientific journal article which was put up for a nobel prize, but didn't get it because of strife and arguing within the organization (Molecules of Emotion).

Recently, I learned that each and every cell in the human body has a complete set of DNA that has all the information for making another duplicate human, and there are about 1 trillion cells in a human. Since each DNA strand in every one of those cells is some billions of nucleotide combinations long and that millions of such DNA are copied every second then this does show how there are some mistakes made every now and then in the replication. These mutated DNA makes different proteins and different cells, in some cases cancer. In the case of smokers, irritation by chemicals cause massive macrophages to be produced at the site. Sooner or later a DNA will not get copied 100% correctly. So when a medical doctor or a scientist says that there is a chance of getting cancer sometimes this scenario is what they might be referring to. Of course this is just one of many possibilities for the start of disease but thought I'd add to the genetics side of the discussion.

[chrissy]

my dad is a big believer in liver flukes being the cause of cancer. he read Hulda Clark's book *the cure for all cancer*. my sister has done colon cleanses combined with a special diet for candida and fibromyalgia----she really felt like it helped her.

the problem with so many natural cures is that they cost an arm and a leg, and ins. doesn't cover them. you can't tell me the "natural health gurus" aren't in this for the money also.

[skbird]

I got into liver flushes for a while there, started by my massage therapist. I also frequented Curezone for a bit there and learned some things about my self and others I just didn't know what to think.

I can tell you this - liver flushing has made me increasingly sicker and worse. I got stones out, but each flush I did, something worse happened. The last time, I ended up vomiting so violently, I injured my shoulder (I don't even know how that happened, so don't ask!) and two years later I still have to see a chiropractor for it. It wasn't until I went on a gluten free diet that my symptoms of bowel problems, stomach problems, migraines, etc, all the things I was blaming on my liver function, cleared up. And even now, that I have been taking liver supplements over the years, and I am hundreds of times sicker from smaller and smallerl amounts of gluten now. So, if I base my "science" on my personal results, I would have to say liver flushes don't work for celiac/autoimmune gluten intolerance.

The fact that doctors, such as Dr. Fine, have pointed to research that the antibodies are made in our guts indicates that the liver as filter theory wouldn't work - the antibodies are made on the spot, so it's not like the harmful substance travels through your body, gets filtered or not by your liver, and then causes the reaction. It happens on contact in the mucous membranes in your small intestines.

I think liver health is essential for good health, but I don't believe that it is the keystone to all health. I think of the healer I went to right before I went gluten free, who talked about energy, liver congestion, then instructed me to stick to a diet heavy in long-fermented soy sauce, miso soup, and whole grain wheat products, along with well-cooked veggies and king salmon. The fact I told him I was allergic to the fermenting agent in soy and that I was trying to reduce my wheat intake held no water with him - he said to disregard that info. Hmmm. The power of the mind.

Oh, and Andreas - interesting guy, but no expert in my world view. He personally told me to stick to a high-carb diet for my hypoglycemia because more insulin is released when one consumes protein than carbs. So, using my "science" I can tell you about the time I got low blood sugar of 36 following that advice. Doesn't float with me.

Stephanie

[penguin]

Oh, and Andreas - interesting guy, but no expert in my world view. He personally told me to stick to a high-carb diet for my hypoglycemia because more insulin is released when one consumes protein than carbs. So, using my "science" I can tell you about the time I got low blood sugar of 36 following that advice. Doesn't float with me.

What kind of quackbox is this guy?!?! He's going to kill someone going around saying stuff like that! Sounds like he very nearly did you in...

[skbird]

And I lived to tell. I didn't take leave of my good senses, but I did try to go for a veggie diet (I was desperate!) and all the brown rice and fruit were just too much for me (not to mention the gluten stuff). Maybe I didn't "believe" enough - I was pretty skeptical the whole time. Actually, following a Celiac diet has improved my hypoglycemia much more than even following a hypoglycemia diet, oddly enough. I do eat more starch now than I did for about 4 years.

Anyway, I do appreciate alternative explanations for health woes and finding other ways to get healthy, but I definitely did the "been there, done that" in full faith on the Curezone site and found it to be bad advice for me.

Live and learn.

Oh yeah, I'm SOOOOOO over people telling me that if I follow this protocol or that protocol, my allergies/intolerances will go away. I've noticed only people who have neither like to preach this stuff. As my mama taught me, "Speak from knowledge."

Steph

PS ChelsE - you totally crack me up. Rock on!

[cmom]

Yeah, several years ago when no one could find a cause for my misery, I was sent to a psychiatrist. When I told him I couldn't afford him (just out of college), he sent me to his assistant. She proceeded to tell me that maybe I just needed to be myself and quit shaving my legs and armpits to please people (WHAT!!!) She said that's what she did. From there, I went to a chiropractor/"witch doctor". She held vials of different substances against my stomach. If she could push my arm down, I was allergic to that substance. She told me I had a kidney about ready to fail. (I still have both!) Nothing was ever mentioned about gluten though!! So goes the adventures of celiac diagnosis!!!

[skbird]

Oh yeah - the chiropractor I go to for the shoulder thing wanted to allergy test me for some supplements and, since I knew he knew about my allergies and gluten, I trusted him. Well, he tested me for three supplements by putting the pill on my tongue and then pushing down on my arm. Strong arm - no allergy. I bought the supplements, was at home ready to take them when I read BARLEY and OATS on one of them.

Ummm, well, I guess it isn't an *allergy* technically.

Enough of that stuff for me.

Stephanie

[penguin]

Live and learn.

Oh yeah, I'm SOOOOOO over people telling me that if I follow this protocol or that protocol, my allergies/intolerances will go away. I've noticed only people who have neither like to preach this stuff. As my mama taught me, "Speak from knowledge."

Steph

PS ChelsE - you totally crack me up. Rock on!

Isn't that obnoxious? People that live allergies/intolerances know there is something wrong with the wiring in the body. It's not the liver. It's not some sort of psychological thing. It's not needing to "flush your system". Heck, it's not even the offending substance itself, it's a wiring flaw, the hard drive is damaged.

Thanks for thinking I'm funny!

Oh yeah - the chiropractor I go to for the shoulder thing wanted to allergy test me for some supplements and, since I knew he knew about my allergies and gluten, I trusted him. Well, he tested me for three supplements by putting the pill on my tongue and then pushing down on my arm. Strong arm - no allergy. I bought the supplements, was at home ready to take them when I read BARLEY and OATS on one of them.

Ummm, well, I guess it isn't an *allergy* technically.

Enough of that stuff for me.

Stephanie

Wow, you're sure good at finding the quackers, aren't you?!

[Guest Robbin]

Cancer is probably the most interesting subject of all. My view is that when the Liver, Kidney, and Colon are not eliminating toxins from the body effectively the blood gets saturated with those surplus toxins. These toxins begin seeping through the connective surrounding tissues searching for an outlet. If this process continues, and blood toxemia rises, tumours are forced to form to provide a proper outlet for the toxins. Cancer is actually a survival mechanism as a response to toxemia. Without the cancer you would be serious trouble alot quicker. When the bile from the liver is optimum, the tumours have no need to exist as the toxin overload is relieved by the improvement in liver performance. That's why cancer comes back and with a vengeance when chemotherapy is used as a treatment. The root cause has not been addressed- toxemia.

I hope I'm not coming across as some hippy alternative preacher but it's hard to be anything but when you express extreme views.

I think it's interesting to discuss conflicting views on stuff, especially something as important as health. I just stumbled across this site on google and thought I would give my 2 cents. Good luck in treatment for celiac, doesn't sound like fun.

Interesting theory, but what about babies and children with cancer who have not had years of "toxins saturating the blood?" Also, what causes the malfunction of the liver, kidney and colon? You are not coming across as a hippy alternative preacher-you are coming off as someone who has a vested interest in "liver cleanse " products

[2kids4me]

It is interesting how many "cures" are out there and not one of them seems to be making headlines for actually accomplishing what they say.. as in no proof.... only subjective testimonials.

I have been told (by non diabetics of course) that I wont need insulin if I drink Goji juice.

I have been scolded by people I barely know (if they find out I have diabetes) that I ate too much candy and its my own fault.

My son (who is also diabetic) has been told by people that - its not so bad - you can treat it with diet and exercise once you get older. Somehow this person thought that Type one diabetes only affected children and once you grew up - you converted to Type 2. (the old name was juvenile diabetes so maybe that's why she thought that).

I have been told that I am negligent for not doing chelation therapy as that would cure my daughter's Aspergers'.

As for the whole cancer thing - I work in veterinary medicine so animals are my area of expertise. I do lab work in a vet clinic for a living. I have seen a number of dogs with lung cancer but never seen one of them sneaking a smoke behind the school, young dogs with acute lymphocytic leukemia or tumours of the jaw, cats with feline leukemia as young as 6 months, allergies and bowel disease - you name it .... and guess what - not one of these animals had liver stones or gall stones.... and their liver works the same way a human liver does....hmmm

An interesting fact is that celiac disease has only been documented in Irish Setters - never been seen in other breeds. There are some in the vet community that believe we will see celiac disease in the future because most pet foods use wheat as their plant protein. Wheat is not a natural food source in a dog or cat's diet (ever seen one in a field of wheat chowing down?)..by introducing foreign proteins - we change things.

Dogs are omnivorous and cats are carnivores- yet many feed cats as if they are omnivores and some even insist their cat be a vegetarian.......totally off topic, but just examples of how us humans can use twisted logic and screw things up for ourselves and the animals. Everyone is always looking for a magic cure, something that will cure them. It isn't always possible and although I am always looking to improve my knowledge or improve the health of myself or the kids - I try and stay realistic and research treatments before I lay out wads of cash for unknown consequences.

[merlin23]

Interesting theory, but what about babies and children with cancer who have not had years of "toxins saturating the blood?" Also, what causes the malfunction of the liver, kidney and colon? You are not coming across as a hippy alternative preacher-you are coming off as someone who has a vested interest in "liver cleanse " products

Yes, you've got me, I own an Olive Oil factory in Italy and this liver flush is really increasing demand. Oh Please, the whole process costs about $5, all you need is olive oil and Lemon juice. Hardly gonna make me a million.

As for the other person who wanted to know why the organs would malfunction. Liver because of stones (i swear I mentioned that about twenty times) and colon because of constipation and backlog. I'm sure you've heard of kidney disease.

As I mentioned earlier, I believe organs can be screwed from birth. Cancers are unpredictable and can develop rapidly whilst others take years to develop. The liver controls every cell in the body, which obviously includes the Villi of the intestines. People are of course genetically pre-disposed to certain conditions but that doesn't mean you should resign yourself having an ailment all your life. Remember, the liver can keep the body alive when it is at 36% of it's capability. When it reaches 35% it fails and you die of liver failure. Unlike the stomach, it never complains directly, only indirectly through various conditions. That's why it's so often overlooked.

Out of curiourisity I read the Celiac forum on curezone and a person claims to have cured her Celiac condition. She can't be telling the truth obviously, because he/she probably has "vested" interests, whatever they might be.

The liver flush is not a plain sailing process, I have found it a two-step forward one step back process, as when you undergo that level of detoxification you are stirring up all the toxins that have built up over the years. If you've had a chronic condition all your life it will take a while to improve, and symptoms sometimes get intensified in the early-mid stages of the process. It is called "retracing".

[penguin]

The liver controls every cell in the body, which obviously includes the Villi of the intestines. People are of course genetically pre-disposed to certain conditions but that doesn't mean you should resign yourself having an ailment all your life. Remember, the liver can keep the body alive when it is at 36% of it's capability. When it reaches 35% it fails and you die of liver failure. Unlike the stomach, it never complains directly, only indirectly through various conditions. That's why it's so often overlooked.

Would you mind sharing the science behind your statement, because that was overlooked in any anatomy or biology class I ever took...

[jerseyangel]

I was wondering about that, myself.....

[merlin23]

Would you mind sharing the science behind your statement, because that was overlooked in any anatomy or biology class I ever took...

The liver has direct control over the growth and functioning of every cell in the body. What science are you looking for? Do you have any science to contradict it?

[penguin]

The liver has direct control over the growth and functioning of every cell in the body. What science are you looking for? Do you have any science to contradict it?

Yeah, actually. If any part of the body controlled the growth or functioning of anything, it would be the brain. The brain (more specifically, the brain stem) controlls the autonomous functions of the body. The brain is what sends the signals to the liver, or any other organ, to function. The brain delegates and sends signals to the hypothalmus, pituitary, reproductive organs, and to the nerve endings, etc. etc.

Other than that, your skin is the largest organ that keeps bacteria and germs out. Your bone marrow makes your blood, which eventually gets to the liver to be cleaned and recycled. No one organ controlls the function of everything, and if one did, I don't think the liver would be in the top 5.

The liver is a biological coffee filter. I'm not saying it's not important, because it is. You would die without one, but you would die without many of your organs so it's a moot point. They all work together. The liver filters blood, recycles the blood, metabolizes drugs, and secretes bile. It's a great organ, but certainly isn't the end all be all of organs.

All of that is basic physiology that any 7th grader learns in bio. That physiology is based on thousands of years of research. Where do you get your information?

[nikki-uk]

Out of curiourisity I read the Celiac forum on curezone and a person claims to have cured her Celiac condition. She can't be telling the truth obviously, because he/she probably has "vested" interests, whatever they might be.

....I'd be genuinely interested to see what a small bowel biopsy would show for this person in around 10 years time after being cured

[merlin23]

Yeah, actually. If any part of the body controlled the growth or functioning of anything, it would be the brain. The brain (more specifically, the brain stem) controlls the autonomous functions of the body. The brain is what sends the signals to the liver, or any other organ, to function. The brain delegates and sends signals to the hypothalmus, pituitary, reproductive organs, and to the nerve endings, etc. etc.

Other than that, your skin is the largest organ that keeps bacteria and germs out. Your bone marrow makes your blood, which eventually gets to the liver to be cleaned and recycled. No one organ controlls the function of everything, and if one did, I don't think the liver would be in the top 5.

The liver is a biological coffee filter. I'm not saying it's not important, because it is. You would die without one, but you would die without many of your organs so it's a moot point. They all work together. The liver filters blood, recycles the blood, metabolizes drugs, and secretes bile. It's a great organ, but certainly isn't the end all be all of organs.

All of that is basic physiology that any 7th grader learns in bio. That physiology is based on thousands of years of research. Where do you get your information?

[merlin23]

Yeah, actually. If any part of the body controlled the growth or functioning of anything, it would be the brain. The brain (more specifically, the brain stem) controlls the autonomous functions of the body. The brain is what sends the signals to the liver, or any other organ, to function. The brain delegates and sends signals to the hypothalmus, pituitary, reproductive organs, and to the nerve endings, etc. etc.

Other than that, your skin is the largest organ that keeps bacteria and germs out. Your bone marrow makes your blood, which eventually gets to the liver to be cleaned and recycled. No one organ controlls the function of everything, and if one did, I don't think the liver would be in the top 5.

The liver is a biological coffee filter. I'm not saying it's not important, because it is. You would die without one, but you would die without many of your organs so it's a moot point. They all work together. The liver filters blood, recycles the blood, metabolizes drugs, and secretes bile. It's a great organ, but certainly isn't the end all be all of organs.

All of that is basic physiology that any 7th grader learns in bio. That physiology is based on thousands of years of research. Where do you get your information?

Well, obviously every organ is important, but organs like the colon, kidney already get enough press- everyone is aware of their importance. My point is the liver is completely over-looked in modern medicine. Diagnostic tests only pick up really serious liver issues like hepatitis etc. Enymes levels remain non-remarkable when the liver is filled with stones and so no one even stops to consider the liver when attempting to address a problem.

Bile carrying toxins out of the liver is obviously vital otherwise it would be not be designed to do so. Mainstream medicine is surprisingly blase' about any obstruction of this bile flow, only believing jaundice and gallbladder attacks are side effects of impeded bile flow. Most people with liver stones are asymptomatic with regards to direct symptoms such as these.

As for your finding's being based on thousand years of research, I wouldn't hold much credence to that. After all allopathic medicine is still using chemotherapy sixty years after it was first introduced even though most doctors have admitted they would never use it on themselves if they had cancer. It's main tactic is too kill the cancer before the person- what kind of half-brained tactic is that. Forgive me if I don't hold up mainstream medicine as standard bearers for human health.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

This is a very interesting discussion. I gotta say, we can't talk about trusting in mainstream medicine and hundreds of years of science, etc.--it's mainstream medecine that tells most of us that we either aren't sick, or it's in our heads, or we have IBS, etc.

I don't know who disgusts me more, the quacks or the mainstream medical doctors--they are all equally clueless and dangerous.

[ravenwoodglass]

I don't know who disgusts me more, the quacks or the mainstream medical doctors--they are all equally clueless and dangerous.

I agree completely.

[merlin23]

This is a very interesting discussion. I gotta say, we can't talk about trusting in mainstream medicine and hundreds of years of science, etc.--it's mainstream medecine that tells most of us that we either aren't sick, or it's in our heads, or we have IBS, etc.

I don't know who disgusts me more, the quacks or the mainstream medical doctors--they are all equally clueless and dangerous.

I don't blame doctors though. They are only practising what they have been taught. Plus they are under pressure from the drug companies who actually do have vested interests.

Just ask yourself this, is the world getting healthier? No, it's getting sicker and sicker. Mainstream cannot give a definitive answer on what is causing diseases so I don't blame the population for continuing with their slack dietary habits. The world will continue to get sicker if symptoms are treated with drugs which create new symptoms as a side-effect. Then you end up taking drugs to suppress side effects caused by the previous drug, and so on and so forth. The whole thing is a shambles.

For the record, I also think most alternative therapies are rubbish and there are plenty of quacks willing to take advantage of gullible patients. At least the liver flush is based around physiological truth. That's the only complimentary method I advocate.

[utdan]

I was raised by a father that was a chiropractor and my mother who was a registered nurse. I got balanced look at both worlds of allopathic and alternative medicine. One would be unwise to just hold to just one or the other as they balance eachother out with their strengths and weaknesses. My parents used judgement in hearing experiences from trusted friends and sources.