What About The Eucharist?

[DingoGirl]

- and it does not surprise me that there are people with Celiac that are ignored by their religious leaders. They do not care about you. They never did, and never will.

Once again, I am not "bitter". This is a charge that is thrown at people that reject the tyranny of religion.

wow....maybe not "bitter" but certainly really angry...that's too bad.

There are people with Celiac who are ignored by their DOCTORS, and doctors who don't know and don't care to know the full ramifications of Celiac. So let's not put that limitation on just the church. Remember, churches are made up of HUMANS, and humans are terribly flawed....

I haven't read through this whole thread, but Carla, your posts were extremely eloquent and thoughtful.

And if I wanted a religion, I could choose many things.....but I wanted a Savior, and am not ashamed to admit that I need one. Yes, a map to heaven and grace in abundance.

And for the record, God knows my heart, and what I do, and after receiving the host and praying, I stick the communion wafer in my purse. My church will gladly accommodate anything I choose to do, I am quite sure, when I approach them about this.

[DingoGirl]

As far as being "angry" - I'm very opinionated, but if you want to read some REALLY good stuff, try some writings about organized religion by Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, etc.) or Thomas Jefferson. They make me sound like Billy Graham, the Pope, and Mother Theresa combined!

Have a good one!

I've read them......years ago, in my philosopy studies in college....and through those and many other readings, I became a Christian.....go figure?

[Guest adamssa]

I'm so glad this thread came up! Just last week, I had been feeling pretty good, and then I went to (Catholic_) church and took communion and bam! I had thought I wasn't a Celiac or intolerant, just kind of sensitive to gluten, but now I'm thinking otherwise. I'm glad that you guys also gave me the idea to just take the wine, which, silly as it sounds, hadn't occured to me because I've been taking only the eucharist for as long as I can remember,and was really getting nervous about how my parents would react if I didn't go up. Does anyone know, is there a lot of gluten in the Eucharist (for Catholics) or just a small amount?

[2kids4me]

Yes there is enough in it to make you feel sick. Just CC in the wine made my daughter ill starting within hours of church. We have separate chalice and they only receive the wine without any pieces of the eucharist added (no cc)

[CarlaB]

Yes there is enough in it to make you feel sick. Just CC in the wine made my daughter ill starting within hours of church. We have separate chalice and they only receive the wine without any pieces of the eucharist added (no cc)

The Host is made from pure wheat, so it has lots of gluten! I always receive out of a chalice separate from the one the priest adds a piece of the Host to.

Bernice is correct about the fast and how it's changed over the years. However, people who are ill are not bound to the practice.

[penguin]

The Host is made from pure wheat, so it has lots of gluten! I always receive out of a chalice separate from the one the priest adds a piece of the Host to.

Bernice is correct about the fast and how it's changed over the years. However, people who are ill are not bound to the practice.

From what I understand from catechism is that the ill and young (under 15?) aren't required to fast. Healthy adults are still supposed to fast for at least an hour I think before mass.

Thank goodness for Vatican II, eh?

[Sierra]

For those Catholics who take only the Blood, how do you do it logistically? I'm frequently visiting at a church since I travel a lot, and do you just go up in the long line, then skip over to the second line for the wine when you get to the front? It seems like it would be weird to "skip" the bread part just from the logistical standpoint.

Of course, at home I can work it out a bit better talking with my priest, etc, but when I travel, it's a different story. I'm already wondering how all of my travel is going to work out...

Sierra in OR

Just had the biopsy 7/25/06, waiting on "final" results

[CarlaB]

For those Catholics who take only the Blood, how do you do it logistically? I'm frequently visiting at a church since I travel a lot, and do you just go up in the long line, then skip over to the second line for the wine when you get to the front? It seems like it would be weird to "skip" the bread part just from the logistical standpoint.

Of course, at home I can work it out a bit better talking with my priest, etc, but when I travel, it's a different story. I'm already wondering how all of my travel is going to work out...

Sierra in OR

Just had the biopsy 7/25/06, waiting on "final" results

You know how kids or people who are not Catholic go up with their hands crossed over their chest to receive a blessing instead of Communion? I do that if logistically I have to walk to the person distributing the Host. Then I go over and receive the cup. Sometimes if the person who has the cup sees that you didn't receive the Host, they might not understand, but I've only had this happen once and all I needed to do was say I was receiving.

Be sure you watch carefully when you have a visiting priest or are at a different parish. Some priests put a piece of the host in every chalice. It's an unnecessary practice, but some do it. Then I just stay in the pew.

Ah, I just noticed you are new to the board, welcome!

[beaglemania]

I'm Catholic and I can't have a gluten free wager b/c the Catholic church doesn't accept it. I also do not drink the wine. It comes in a communal cup and people stand and wipe the rim of the cup off after you use it but still once people receive the communion wafer, then they go to receive wine, they contaminate the wine in the cup. So I just stay in my bench. I think its ridiculous that the Catholic church can't have a gluten-free wafer substituted for a regular one.

[Ashley]

I'm not Catholic, but, I am a Christian. Our church only does Communion once a year. I take the regular waffer and wine. I ask the Lord to protect me and leave it be at that.

-Ash

[beaglemania]

I'm not Catholic, but, I am a Christian. Our church only does Communion once a year. I take the regular waffer and wine. I ask the Lord to protect me and leave it be at that.

-Ash

Well when its only once a year that's probably ok,. Have you ever reacted to it?? B/c I have gone to a christian nondenominational church before and they gave you a little cracker like the ones you put in your clam chowder. really tiny.

[tiredofdoctors]

Wow . . . I stay away from one thread, and look what I miss . . . .

Everyone has their own personal belief system. Some are remarkably similar, some are remarkably different. Some include God, some don't. Some people are religious, and some are spiritual. When you get down to it, however, we are all individuals, deserving of the benefit of having our belief systems treated with respect. It amazes me how many a war has been started in the name of religion.

If you look at the universe scientifically (no I am NOT a Christian Scientist), after studying WAY too much physics, it almost undoubtedly confirms the existence of a higher power. In the scientific world, everything lends to chaos. Therefore, there seemingly needs to be a higher power that brings it all together . . .

After reading all these pages and all these posts, it appears that there is one common thread that binds everyone here . . . we're all struggling with a disease that is so horribly difficult to manage. Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, Hindu, Buddhist -- whatever. This thread is about trying to manage to fit into the lives of the people with whom we have a particularly unfortunate commonality (celiac) a way for them to celebrate their faith and participate in their religion, without having the side-effects from this awful disease. This is not about who is right, who is wrong, who is good, who is bad. This is about helping our friends, acquaintances, maybe even enemies, I don't know . . . find a way to successfully fulfill yet another part of their lives that Celiac has taken away. This disease takes enough of our lives . . . I would like to think that, as adults, we can work together to help some members get a very important part of their lives back -- regardless of what you believe. I have often been accused of being naive, and if that is the case, so be it. I would like to think that, regardless of anyone's belief system, that we would ALL be able to work together to find solutions to enrich the lives of our fellow celiac board members.

I wish you all the success you can find . . . . . . you deserve that so much.

Lynne

[Canadian Karen]

Beautiful post, Lynne.......

Boy, this thread sure has made me believe in "cyber re-incarnation".......

Hugs.

Karen

[debmidge]

"After reading all these pages and all these posts, it appears that there is one common thread that binds everyone here . . . we're all struggling with a disease that is so horribly difficult to manage. Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, Hindu, Buddhist -- whatever. This thread is about trying to manage to fit into the lives of the people with whom we have a particularly unfortunate commonality (celiac) a way for them to celebrate their faith and participate in their religion, without having the side-effects from this awful disease. This is not about who is right, who is wrong, who is good, who is bad. This is about helping our friends, acquaintances, maybe even enemies, I don't know . . . find a way to successfully fulfill yet another part of their lives that Celiac has taken away. This disease takes enough of our lives . . . I would like to think that, as adults, we can work together to help some members get a very important part of their lives back -- regardless of what you believe. I have often been accused of being naive, and if that is the case, so be it. I would like to think that, regardless of anyone's belief system, that we would ALL be able to work together to find solutions to enrich the lives of our fellow celiac board members.

I wish you all the success you can find . . . . . . you deserve that so much."

Amen, Lynne.

[Guest BERNESES]

Wow . . . I stay away from one thread, and look what I miss . . . .

Everyone has their own personal belief system. Some are remarkably similar, some are remarkably different. Some include God, some don't. Some people are religious, and some are spiritual. When you get down to it, however, we are all individuals, deserving of the benefit of having our belief systems treated with respect. It amazes me how many a war has been started in the name of religion.

If you look at the universe scientifically (no I am NOT a Christian Scientist), after studying WAY too much physics, it almost undoubtedly confirms the existence of a higher power. In the scientific world, everything lends to chaos. Therefore, there seemingly needs to be a higher power that brings it all together . . .

After reading all these pages and all these posts, it appears that there is one common thread that binds everyone here . . . we're all struggling with a disease that is so horribly difficult to manage. Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist, Hindu, Buddhist -- whatever. This thread is about trying to manage to fit into the lives of the people with whom we have a particularly unfortunate commonality (celiac) a way for them to celebrate their faith and participate in their religion, without having the side-effects from this awful disease. This is not about who is right, who is wrong, who is good, who is bad. This is about helping our friends, acquaintances, maybe even enemies, I don't know . . . find a way to successfully fulfill yet another part of their lives that Celiac has taken away. This disease takes enough of our lives . . . I would like to think that, as adults, we can work together to help some members get a very important part of their lives back -- regardless of what you believe. I have often been accused of being naive, and if that is the case, so be it. I would like to think that, regardless of anyone's belief system, that we would ALL be able to work together to find solutions to enrich the lives of our fellow celiac board members.

I wish you all the success you can find . . . . . . you deserve that so much.

Lynne

That was beautiful....it's exactly how I feel. But I couldn't have sait it as eloquently. Hugs, Beverly

[mouse]

Thanks Lynne for saying so well, what I also think. Each thread is to help with a particular problem for a Celiac. Our individuals beliefs should not come into play. We are here to be educated on Celiac Disease and how to deal with the daily problems we encounter in handling this disease. Lets please keep to the topic and not try and convert people to our personal beliefs.

[jerseyangel]

I've stayed off this thread, also, because as a Catholic, I have my own feelings on the matter. I didn't think my feelings were particularly relevent to the original poster's question so I refrained.

Thank you Lynne for stating your feelings so eloquently. You, naive? Never

[CarlaB]

These last several posts really reinforce what I meant and really reflect the great, non-judgmental, accepting support system we have here on the board. Even though we come from differing spiritual backgrounds, we all have a tremendous respect for each other. I think that it's okay for our spiritual beliefs to come out as it's part of the person each of us are. I also think we all can learn from each other. Pope John Paul II wrote a short book many years ago that I read where he went over different faiths, and I don't mean other Christian religions, and pointed out what we Catholics could learn from them. He had a respect, even if he didn't agree, for all people. I learned so much from that book, just as I am learning from many of you on the board about your own faiths and ways of practicing them. I find it intriguing.

The last several posts from Lynne, Susan, Beverly (your commendation of Lynne was eloquent in itself), Patti, Debmidge, Karen, and anyone else I missed, really show that we come from differing beliefs, have this common bond (even if we didn't ask for it!!!) and enjoy learning more about each other's ideas ... why else would we post?

I'm glad we're all here for each other. I think we can all learn from Bernice and Jax, as well. I actually like learning about all of your personal spiritual beliefs because most of the people I am surrounded by in my real life -- as opposed to my cyber-life- (except in my music -- you think we are all of differing backgrounds!!), are Catholic and have the same beliefs I do. I think it's a good thing to get out of your own circle ... kind of the same idea we talked about with going abroad to study.

Have a great day everyone!

[DingoGirl]

Bernice, clearly you have had a most tragic life experience with the CAtholic church....I believe Jesus himself weeps over the condition of your childhood parish, and I'm glad it's closed. It's so, so sad that many Catholics did in fact grow up in those conditions....

(totally off-topic of the Host and gluten...forgive me!)

[CarlaB]

Bernice, this is what I meant when I said I was sorry you had to deal with whatever you had to deal with as regards the human element of the Church. People who are ill or who cannot for some other reason do the fast are not bound to it. When I was pregnant, I did not observe the fast myself. I had to constantly suck on Jolly Ranchers just so that I didn't throw up, so I'd simply take it out of my mouth before receiving communion. This was considered acceptable. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in the Church. My experience has not been even remotely similar to yours. I can understand your anger/bitterness towards it. I don't see the decline in attendance the way you do ... our parish has 12,000 registered parishoners. Many parishes are growing like ours is, but many inner-city and older parishes are closing. The behavior of some priests, some school teachers, some coaches, some parents, some older siblings, some relatives, some preschool teacher, etc., etc. is reprehensible.

[ravenwoodglass]

Some people are outraged by my criticisms of the Catholic church, and other religions. They probably did not experience, in their childhood, going hungry for up to SIXTEEN HOURS from Saturday dinner until Sunday lunch, and only given a thin piece of glutened poison the size of a nickel, soaked in wine, which is considered to be some kind of magic bullet for a non-existent thing called a "soul".

They probably do not know that most of these churches had no rest rooms or toilet facilities, nor air conditioning or lounges if you were sick. They didn't even have water fountains! If criminals, or even terrorists, were treated this way the ACLU, Amnesty International and United Nations would be up in arms. It was not uncommon to see kids vomiting outside after mass, passing out during services, told to knell better, sit up straighter, read in a dimly lit area, etc. Sometimes kids in church were struck with rulers, hands, even metal crosses by the staff - usually nuns, brothers, and lay teachers. Many of my classmates were of first or second generation Irish descent, and it is well known that the rate of Celiac disease is very high in parts of Ireland.

Fortunately, holy communion was not required every week. To "receive" the Pukearist, you were supposed to go to confession on Saturday and beg for forgiveness in a booth due to lapses of morality, faith and behavior– which usually consisted of actions called “sin” that any normal human would have to do to survive. This ritual supposedly puts you in a "holy" state. Does anybody remember “holy water”, usually in a little tub as you enter a church? As I mentioned, there was no water fountain, so sometimes I would just use it on my forehead for relief from the heat. I remember the collections of cash during mass, usually by the ushers, and the "poor boxes" in the church vestibule. We didn’t realize that WE were financially poor!

The Catholic “grammar” school that I attended, and possibly the church that it was associated with, closed down last year (2005). This was also the year I found out that I had celiac and started on a gluten-free regimen. Overall, it was a very good year! I feel better, the churches and parochial schools are closing down in record numbers, predator priests and their ilk are being prosecuted, and science is working on ways to make the lives of celiac sufferers easier. In light of the world's problems, any news that isn't bad is good.

Ironically, these lighter rules of the Church have accomplished one good thing: Church attendance and membership is way down. People that were sick, only to be given a small piece of glutened junk, soaked in wine, handled by a person of questionable character, sexuality and hygiene, probably wouldn’t have much resistance to the nonsensical ravings from the pulpit, and the vicous cycle continued. This is one reason why the gluten host isn't going away anytime soon.

Okay, have you gotten the bile out now? I was raised a staunch catholic, I encountered many of the same conditions you did. Thank goodness my inherent internal beliefs protected me from the bitterness you appear to be experiencing. This is not the place to speak in this manner about other peoples beliefs. I left the Catholic church a long time ago and while for myself organized religion is not something I am comfortable with I certainly would not condemn them or any other religion from Catholic to Muslim to Buddist to Wiccan in the manner that you are. IMHO you should keep your rantings to yourself.

[ravenwoodglass]

Bernice, clearly you have had a most tragic life experience with the CAtholic church....I believe Jesus himself weeps over the condition of your childhood parish, and I'm glad it's closed. It's so, so sad that many Catholics did in fact grow up in those conditions....

(totally off-topic of the Host and gluten...forgive me!)

Many Catholics grew up in just those conditions, but many of us choose to make trials a learning experience and not use them as an excuse to hate. We don't all agree with each other but hard times are not a reason to promote prejudice they should be used to increase understanding.

May I ask if you are an American citizen? We have a little thing here called "free speech", which many people have sacrificed their lives for.

Are you? We also have freedom of religion and a dislike for prejudice and hate.

[CarlaB]

May I ask if you are an American citizen? We have a little thing here called "free speech", which many people have sacrificed their lives for.

You are correct, you do have the right to speak like this on this forum. It's just not appreciated. We are here to help each other. Do you really want to be a part of this group? You are welcome, it's just you need to be more respectful of those you disagree with. Everyone here is tolerant of other's beliefs and opinions, but you seem hostile.

[ravenwoodglass]

I think that the "prejudice and hate" is in the religions. Who else is responsible for all of the war in the world? Just pick up the newspaper and try to comprehend what they're doing in the name of whatever "god" they worship. I'm willing to accept that the my past experiences are just that - and happy that it's over for me. I'm concerned about the future of the world, the human race, and other life forms.

I believe in freedom FROM religion!

Are you an American?

Yes I am a US citizen. I also believe in "freedom from Religion" but the way you are expressing your contempt of the catholic religion does nothing to educate or inform anyone. I share your views but not the way you are expressing them. This thread was on the safety of consuming the Eucharist not on the validity of the religions that use them. You may not realize it but from the perspective of people who are strongly Christian (I am not a Christian by the way) you are attacking them

[Canadian Karen]

This thread was started out by someone asking how they deal with taking (or not taking) the Eucharist. I don't believe the original poster was asking for some deep complicated argument on the theology of religion. There are plenty of religious forums out there if one wishes to partake in a debate of that sort.

I think we all need to remember the original poster's question had to do with gluten in the Eucharist - let's keep it on track and resist the urge to hijack this thread and turn it into something that does not belong here......