Warning - This Is Just A Rant

[floridanative]

As I'm still dealing with a shoulder injury which was minor when I first went to pcp and then got worse after PT sessions, I had to go back to Ortho doc today for second visit. He says I now have frozen shoulder which I did not have when I saw him last month. He ordered an MRI. I think he maybe spent two minutes with me (or less) before escorting me to the scheduling desk.

This morning my new denstist office called to say the Dr. had to leave early today so he can't complete my root canal (that he attempted last Thurs.) at 2 pm today but can take me this morning.......ummmm nope that won't work (see above note about ortho doc). Come in tomorrow.......ummmm, nope that won't work either. I can come Friday........oh the doctor doesn't work Friday. Must be nice! Now I have to wait until Monday to have this horrid white out looking temp. filling removed, have the root canal finished and then have another temp. filling put on. I'm going to meet with a holistic dentist next week and if I like him, I'll have him do the new crown.

The more interaction I have with mainstream medicine doctors, the less respect for them I have. It's like they are herding cattle through the healthcare system. Everyone is in such a hurry (blame that on insurance companies) that doctors don't take the time to think about what patients actually need. Had I never gone in about my shoulder, I would not be in this position today. I won't make that mistake again.

[Guest Robbin]

I am so sorry to hear about your pain and having to go all weekend, yuck. We think alot alike regarding drs. I have to say, though I don't blame insurance companies as much as DOCTOR GREED. Sometimes the insurance companies are trying to put a cap on the greed and waste. Doesn't always work, but if we didn't have some kind of controlling power over them, it would be impossible for anyone to see a dr.. It would take a second mortgage on our houses to pay a dr. visit. They schedule a patient every ten minutes to fit in as much billing as possible. How can they possibly be giving each person the attention they need? I feel your pain.....Take care .

[tarnalberry]

In the case of the ortho... what good would it do for him to continue going over stuff if he can't do anything for you without seeing inside your shoulder? If he can't say a darn thing without the MRI, then all there is to it is ordering the MRI and getting that back ASAP. Eh... They have busy schedules like we have busy schedules... But perhaps I'm too forgiving on that front.

[jerseyangel]

Hi Tiffany

I'm sorry that all of this is coming down on you all at once. I hope that you're not in too much pain over the weekend.

The holistic dentist sounds interesting--let me know how it goes with him!

[floridanative]

Thank you Patti. I'm really not in much pain with tooth or shoulder due to all the Advil the dentist told me to take along with 30 antibiotic pills. So at least that's good.

Tarnalberry - I did not explain the situation clearly about the ortho doc. I went to see my pcp in March about this issue. She sent me straight to a PT who then proceeded to overwork my arm and it got worse. Then she (PT) said I needed a new rx for more PT so back to the pcp I go. But then the pcp says you need to see an ortho doc. So I do and all he does is take an x-ray (shows nothing) and sends me back to the same PT person I'd already been to. I do even more PT with the arm and now it's much, much worse. I think the ortho doc should probably have just set up the MRI if he's been listening. I told him I'd already been doing that but I don't really know that he was listening........and I'm sort of loud so I could not do more to get his attn. except stand on my head. Oh and he did give me a cortisone shot that did nothing and did not even get sore which he was surprised by.

[tarnalberry]

I'm sorry the ortho's not listening. Is there any other ortho you can see? No reason to pay for crappy service if there are other options. It is tough if we get into a bad relationship with our docs (I've certainly done it before), and sometimes there's nothing to it but finding a doc who's got a personality that can be worked with and who's willing to actually treat the patient like something other than a list of symptoms and like a human being.

[jerseyangel]

Gee, It sounds like the MRI should have been done a long time ago, before the PT went to work on you. I am really sorry (but not surprised) that they dropped the ball. I hope that the test this time gives them the info they need to get you better. I'm glad you're not in pain right now, though

Oh Tiffany--(off topic)--I talked to my mom this morning, and she agreed to call the gastro. and ask about getting the complete Celiac Panel done! She's having trouble with dizziness and neuropothy now, and after I mentioned Celiac again for the millionth time, she agreed to call. I'm *again* sending her the correct tests. I'll let you know....

[floridanative]

Patti - good news about your Mom but have her get her B12 checked and make sure she gets the actual number, not told it's normal. My B12 was 233 last Aug. and continued to go down due to malabsorption from Celiac. I later find out that new studies put under 400 dangerous for B12, not under 400 like previously thought. My B12 def. caused my falling (shoulder injury), dizzy spells, dropping things and running into corners/door jambs. Once I went off gluten and took a B12 supplement, all those issued disappeared. B12 def. is nothing to mess around with. Keep up posted on your Mom!

Tarnalberry - I am sick of doctors so no I don't want to go to another one at this point. I'm at least going to see what the MRI shows and go from there. The thought of starting over now is just not something I'm ready to consider. I just feel sort of dumb that after I figured out docs aren't so great over the last year, I didn't make better decisions about getting help for my arm. Like not going to the doc about it, researching stretches I could do at home and this problem my be gone by now. It's like seriously 90% worse than when I first knew I had a problem.

[tiredofdoctors]

I agree about having your shoulder over-worked. I worked at a place where they were so greedy, and so anxious to have people come in-an-out, that they really didn't allow for nor encourage manual therapy. It sounds as though you have a vertebral rotation . . . my guess would be at T4-5 T5-6 and T6-7. Those are the ones that usually cause that type of shoulder pain. I hope that the PT at LEAST ruled out impingement in the cervical spine, and did a full spine work-up to be sure.

If I couldn't get to a PT that specializes in manual therapy, I'd either go to an osteopath or a chiropractor to get your thoracic spine looked at and/or treated. In my experience, most shoulder pain isn't JUST a shoulder problem . . . and often has NOTHING to do with the shoulder.

With regard to the "frozen shoulder" aspect, there are three phases to it: 1) Freezing 2) Frozen and 3) Thawed. Seriously. If it is a true "frozen shoulder", they will thaw themselves. As PT's we try to catch them in the "Freezing" stage and maintain range of motion throughout the process. Once it starts, it usually doesn't stop until it "thaws" . . . I know that sounds crazy, and if I hadn't experienced it with my patients, I would think I'm a quack. You can maintain your range of motion by rigging up a pulley system (or you can buy them CHEAPLY at Smith-Nephew Rolyan -- even on-line) that allows you to do all of the different types of motion that the arm does -- forward and up, to the side and up, rotated outward (like you'd throw a ball), or rotated inward (like you'd hook your bra) . . . you have to do them gently, and you have to make sure that each time, you get a very gentle stretch to it. That will keep the muscles stretched out.

I wouldn't go back to that PT -- sounds like what we call a "shake and bake" -- get 'em in, get 'em out, charge a lot of money . . . There's a group here that's (only known in PT circles) "Meet 'em, greet 'em, treat 'em and street 'em". They hire a lot of 16 and 17 year old kids who know NOTHING about body mechanics, etc. and have them "oversee" the patients' exercises . . . tisk tisk.

I would DEFINITELY have your thoracic spine looked at . . . I really do think that is the "root" of your shoulder problem . . .

As for the Dentist . . . well, even though in Rachelville, I wanted to be Hermie the Dentist, I don't have any advice -- I've gotten crappy dentists throughout my life. I have such bad luck with them, that I wouldn't even BEGIN to tell you anything . . . . !!!

Good luck to you . . . . . Love, Lynne

[jerseyangel]

"Meet 'em, greet 'em, treat 'em and street 'em".

Mmm--sounds like a case for "Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe"!

Picard, if you see this--

[floridanative]

Wow Lynne - thanks for all the helpful info. Okay my PT is in her 30's and seems to know a lot but when I first went in, she said I had an impingement of the shoulder. She then did ultrasound on me and gave me some work to do every day (hot/cold packs before/after). Okay so I did get better at first, but then I went on vacation and just could not do the work every day. So when I got back and went in for more PT she said that I was really tight which of course I knew. She added some more stuff to my routine and did more ultrasound. Okay, after a few more weeks was when she said to go back to pcp for Ortho doc referral. Okay, so third round of PT now and I think I'm making progress but a couple of weeks ago when I went in for PT session she asked why my arm was out of place. If my arms are down, I look perfectly normal - meaning both arms are in the same place. When my left arm is raised, my shoulder goes way to to my elbow. Another reference is if I bend my elbows and raise both bent arms up to my sides, the left sige is like 4'' higher then the right. It sort of looks like the arm is not in the socket correctly - does that make sense? And they sold me a pully system which I was using until last week. Today when I tried in 30 seconds to go over this with the doc he said I should NOT do any more exercises until we see what the MRI shows. And I think it may be a month before they get the MRI done. They have to call this week with my appt. date. What do you think Lynne? Should I very gently use the pully system so I don't get worse? I can still dress myself and carefully wash my hair at this point but I dont' want to get even worse. I really can't put my hair up or in a pony tail now as it causes too much pain. I'm just telling you this since you are an expert and can probably help me better than the hurried doc. Thoughts? Oh and two years ago when I had shingles and the doc at the time did an x-ray since she didn't figure out it was shingles........it showed that I had a slight curvature of the spine which she said 'you know you have this slight scoliosis, right - it was something you were born with. I've never been told that except for then and I never looked into it further because I thought I was dying from the nerve pain at the time.

[Guest nini]

Tiff, Come see Dr. Joe... first visit is totally free including xrays ok? I KNOW we could help you. I just wish you lived closer.

[floridanative]

Tiff, Come see Dr. Joe... first visit is totally free including xrays ok? I KNOW we could help you. I just wish you lived closer.

Nisla - I already told DH that I would probably have to see you and pay out of pocket but we both agreed that I do need the MRI first because no one really knows what the heck is going on with my sholder. I've now had two rounds of x-rays (one yesterday) that showed nothing so I doubt I need more. E-mal the office #/address for me and I'll get there eventually. With my tooth not fixed yet that is a priority, not to mention a huge expense.

[Guest nini]

I understand totally about the expense... I try to work out deals with people... Right now the best one I can offer is a pre pay of $300 that would get you 6 one hour sessions or 12 1/2 hour sessions... DH doesn't really like me doing the pre pay thing, but I'm trying to help people here! LOL!

[floridanative]

I understand totally about the expense... I try to work out deals with people... Right now the best one I can offer is a pre pay of $300 that would get you 6 one hour sessions or 12 1/2 hour sessions... DH doesn't really like me doing the pre pay thing, but I'm trying to help people here! LOL!

Actually my co-pays were $35 so with every doc appt. and all PT sessions I've paid just over $500 and I'm worse off. So you in fact are a bargain. I will get in touch when I get the MRI results and then hopefully Dr. Joe and you can help me!

[queenofhearts]

My current RRRRRR....

Doc prescribed special iron supplement supposedly more absorbable, insurance won't cover it 'cause it's over the counter, but it costs $55 a bottle! Any advice on that one?

Leah

[floridanative]

The ONLY iron I can take is otc SlowFe. It's gentle and I don't even need extra fiber with it. I hope to be off it in six months since my stores are really jumping up since going gluten free. Good luck to you.

[ms-sillyak-screwed]

-

Hugs!

[floridanative]

Thanks. I'm sleeping fine so that's good. My injury may be very simple (or not) but no one has bothered to figure it out yet......guess the MRI will shed some light on the situation.

[tarnalberry]

Thanks. I'm sleeping fine so that's good. My injury may be very simple (or not) but no one has bothered to figure it out yet......guess the MRI will shed some light on the situation.

Glad to hear you're sleeping well. Hopefully that will be beneficial to healing the shoulder.

[floridanative]

Thanks Tarnalberry - it's wierd but since I stopped the PT, my shoulder is a little tiny bit better. I'm just keeping it stretched out well but not doing anything to make it worse. I'm not stressing over it anymore. It will probably be a while before it's better and I'll probably pay out of pocket for help but in the end I would just like to get better, not worse which is what has happened when using my insurance.

[queenofhearts]

The ONLY iron I can take is otc SlowFe. It's gentle and I don't even need extra fiber with it. I hope to be off it in six months since my stores are really jumping up since going gluten free. Good luck to you.

Thanks, I'll give that a try!

Leah

[penguin]

My current RRRRRR....

Doc prescribed special iron supplement supposedly more absorbable, insurance won't cover it 'cause it's over the counter, but it costs $55 a bottle! Any advice on that one?

Leah

I can't even tolerate slowFE. The only one I can tolerate is FlorVital Iron & Herbs, and it has a highly absorbable form of iron and is a liquid. I was skeptical, but I had no side effects and my dangerously low iron levels came up to approaching the low end of normal after 6 weeks. It's not that cheap, $25 a bottle or so...you can find it at whole foods...

[tiredofdoctors]

I am so sorry that I haven't gotten back to you for so long . . . we have had more things going on here -- and not of the good kind -- that anyone cares to hear.

With regard to the movement, if the PT said that you had an "impingement", then that would mean that you have either bone spurs which are causing the problem, or some type of soft tissue enlargement that is causing you to not have enough range of motion. Did she mention a "sulcus sign" -- and did she do all the tests where you stabilize the top of the shoulder, pull the arm down, measure with your fingers how much it goes down, then push it forward, then backward to see if it "pops" out of place?? Also, did she make you lie down, put your arm off the table and do tests to see if she could pop it backward or forward? These are all things that would make me suspicious of a tear in the "labrum" of the shoulder -- it is the tissue that surrounds the socket and "grows out", but holds the head of the humerus (the long bone in your arm) in the socket . . .

Are you having pain that goes into the outside part of your arm? (Deltoid muscle) . . . That is a DEFINITE indicator of thoracic rotation . . . .

I DON'T like that she just did ultrasound, then had you do exercises. I AM glad that she gave you a pulley system . . . I am pretty bummed that she didn't work on your arm, your shoulder, your neck and your back . . . ALL of those come into play when you are talking about shoulder pain. Man, I wish I could get to you!! Even in a wheelchair, I could do better than what she did. I can't believe I just wrote that . . . almost deleted it -- I DON'T want you to think that I'm full of myself . . . I don't strive to be "The Best PT in the World" -- too much pressure!!! I just want to do what is right and what is good. Quite often, PT's start buying into what the corporations and/or hospitals want . . . and the result is that the quality of care is so badly diminished. That is why one of my classmates opened her own clinic and the reason I did, as well. We were talking the other day, and said that we JUST couldn't stand what we were being forced to do -- compromise our skills, knowledge and expertise in order to make a buck for them . . .

I would call that Doctor's office EVERY DAY and ask them to find out if there is a cancellation for the MRI -- you don't have to wait that long . . . Bug the living daylights out of them -- they'll get you in ASAP so that you'll stop calling. Then, after you get it done, bug them EVERY DAY for a doctor's visit. Seriously. It sounds rediculous, but knowing the system, that is ACTUALLY how it gets done!

Please let me know the results of the MRI -- BTW -- you can ask that the doctor's office send you a copy of the results . . . even BEFORE your visit. I would like to know what they are -- that way we can devise a list of hard-hitting questions to ask your doc. He won't LIKE it that you have questions . . . and make him SIT DOWN to answer them. He won't like that either, but it works. When they have their hand on the doorknob, they don't pay attention to your questions. I told my doctor "Wait a minute. Sit down. I have a list of questions to ask you. If you are talking about taking over an inch off the end of my clavicle, you have a LOT of questions to answer before we 'just schedule surgery'." He wasn't happy, but he did answer my 23 questions!

When you say that your arm goes down and looks "out of socket", it makes me believe that it is because of pain. Often, the patient will relax the muscles as much as they can in order to relieve the pain . . . and it makes the shoulder LOOK very odd . . . like it's out of socket. It IS out of place, so to speak, because it's not where it's normally supposed to be -- the muscles are WAY too relaxed to hold it where it should be, but that is to alleviate the pain. It is a VERY natural response, and your body does it without you knowing it. It's just your body's way of taking care of itself.

With regard to the pulleys . . . unless you feel a definitive "clunk" when you are using them, I don't see that it could cause any damage to just gently pull your arm in different directions . . . I wouldn't stretch it, though . . . if the doctor is worried that you have a tear somewhere, that may be why he doesn't want you using the pulleys. Did he give you any cortisone injections? Just curious . . . will elaborate later if you have had them.

Please keep me informed . . . and again, I'm sorry I waited so long to reply.

Hugs, Lynne

Also, with regard to the iron . . . did you purchase it from your doctor's office? Just curious . . . . .

[floridanative]

Okay - the PT did not doo much in the way of testing that I could tell. She did a couple of times do some manual therapy where she was slowly forcing my arm up and she massaged the area of the shoulder really hard so it hurt. Before second round of PT sessions the doc gave me a cort. shot which did nothing and was not even sore the next day. I asked him about another shot and he said, not until we know where/what the problem is. The MRI was set today for 8-26 with follow up doc visit on the 30th. But they will give me the films and I have to keep them and take them back for doc visit. It's all in the same bldg. so I'm baffled by that process. Anyway, I'll post what the film looks like if I can before I see the doctor. I can assure you he will not like me asking questions and I could care less. I'm probably not going back to him anyway but I want the MRI done before I go elsewhere for help. Thanks Lynne and have a great weekend!

Oh and no- the iron is otc which I was put on last March for the anemia that no one but me seemed concerned about. My stores were at 2 but now over 60 but doc says she wants them over 100 before I go off them since the numbers will drop when I stop.