One Word "inconvenience"

[gfp]

GFP,

One word: HARSH! She is new at this. I didn't even try to overwhelm her. As far as you are concerned, dare I say PARANOID!!!!!!! I live in a house with three children and a husband, and believe me, I use the same toaster without incident! I also allow gluten filled products into the household, and I use the same dishes too!!!! As long as you properly clean things, no one gets hurt. I am going on 11 years with this, and believe me, I've never had any incident anywhere! The only thing I don't allow is free flowing flour. So, have a little compassion for the newbie! My advice to her was to bring her family on board, because that is very important. It's not important to make her paranoid about utensils or dishes!!! You should have a little more understanding of the situation, since you were there yourself!! She has to understand that eating gluten of any kind will hurt her. No one can do it for her! We can only guide her through this rough time. My advice to you is not to give advice at all!!! You make it sound too much like a horror story!!

Vicki

Gluten free since 1995

I'm sorry if you think that using a shared toaster is gluten free, its not.

I also allow gluten filled products into the household, and I use the same dishes too!!!!

Yep my mom started out thinking she could share food off a plate with my brother if she didn't eat the bread.

As long as you properly clean things, no one gets hurt.

Sure but using the same pan scourer and sponges is NOT safe.... or even close.

You can test this easily yourself....

Get some dichlorofluorescein and use it to stain the gluten products... its very low toxicity but I wouldn't recommend eating them after.

Simply try cooking a pan of pasta until it sticks for instance and add some .... then scrub off the pasta....

stick it in the dishwasher as well (after cleaning) .. stick some in the toaster and let it pop etc. etc. and use the kitchen through the day then when its dark take a UV light.

Look around your kitchen, non stained gluten prodcuts should be blue... the dichlorofluorescein stained products will be green.

Another example, i was watching CSI with my girlfriend the other week and the clue was they found a har of the baby sitter in the parent's bed.

I remarked it meant less than nothing... it could have been transferred in101 ways without her ever being in the bedroom. The next day I pull off a cat hair from my girlfriends jacket .. same sort of hair as my cat used to have ... (I am reasonably certain its the same cat but that's not that important as we don't have a cat but he had very white very soft and non waterproof fur) the point is I haven't seen my cat for 5 years... but when I moved I had clothes with cat hairs on... and somehow over 5 years and mixed washes etc. etc. the hair finds its way back.

There are many celaics who are asymptomatic but have perfectly smooth intestines and others who get ill almost practically by smelling the stuff and there are a whole load of people inbetween.

Now even those who are not showing any outwards reaction are still damaging their villi.

We can also address what is unaffected....

A normal low risk adult with have one case of diarrhea per year and those in high risk groups (people around small babies, homosexual males etc. can have diarrhea up to 5 times per year!)

If you are not in a high risk group and have diarrhea more than 2-3 times a year (over several years, anyone can be unlucky) then something is wrong.

Most dr.s will call anytihng that gives diarrhea IBS....

It is clinically proven

Sanders DS, Carter MJ, Hurlstone DP, et al. Association of adult coeliac disease with irritable bowel syndrome: a case-control study in patients fulfilling ROME II criteria referred to secondary care. Lancet. 2001;358:1504-1508.

That coeliac patients have a 7 fold greater incidence of IBS than a normal population...

Some of these may have colites or chrons disease

The prevalence of ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease ranges from 10 to 70 per 100,000 people, but recent studies in Manitoba, Canada, and Rochester, MN, have shown prevalence as high as 200 per 100,000 people

sources:

# Niv Y, Abuksis G, Fraser GM. Epidemiology of ulcerative colitis in Israel: a survey of Israeli kibbutz settlements. Am J Gastroenterol. 2000;95:693-698.

# Loftus EV Jr, Silverstein MD, Sandborn WJ, et al. Crohn's disease in Olmsted County, Minnesota, 1940-1993: incidence, prevalence, and survival. Gastroenterology. 1998;114:1161-1168.

But that's not very many!

So what gives?

Perhaps the incidence is due to celaics who think gluten-free is sharing a toaster. However rather more sinisterly, perhaps untreated celiac disease is what causes these! An in this case untreated means sharing a toaster etc.

What is absolutely certain is that a large amount of celiacs who do share toasters etc. continue to have IBS type symptoms.

What is even more shocking is the number of these that when you suggest this is the cause of thier IBS come out with statements like "but I have been completely gluten-free for X years"

Let me be perfectly frank (I usually am)... I don't think ANYONE has been gluten-free from x years... IT IS NOT POSSIBLE unless you make every meal yourself from ingredients that cannot possiblty be contaminated... if you eat out occaisionally, cross contamination and good old fashioned misreading ingredients....

Perhaps some people don't get diarrhea .... but equally that doesn't mean they are not being glutened from time to time.

There is also a good correlation between those who take the gluten-free diet very seriously and those in the I brush off the breadcrumbs and pick out the croutons gluten-free people.

Those who are very serious tend to react to much lower glutening and much more strongly.

My advice to you is not to give advice at all!!!

Whatever... but would I be correct in guessing you also deny the extensive medical evidence for gluten causing depression and anger?

[Guest nini]

GFP is one of the most informed "experts" on this board and when he gives advice, one better listen.

gluten-free does NOT MEAN sharing a toaster or wooden cutting board or wooden utensils or collanders or cast iron pans or scratched non stick pans... if you are sharing those with a non gluten-free person, YOU are technically not gluten-free, you are gluten lite. Even if you FEEL fine, remember that it only takes ONE molecule of gluten to continue to cause damage to the villi in the small intestine. Just because YOU don't react outwardly, doesn't mean it's not continuing to damage your insides leaving you prone to all kinds of complications down the road and def. continued depression and anxiety disorders.

[gfp]

GFP is one of the most informed "experts" on this board and when he gives advice, one better listen.

thanks nini, don't really consider myself an expert though if "expert" means learning the hardway then I guess I am....

I'm certainly an expert in "ah..sharing pans is OK., and I'll wipe off the chopping board.. " .... been there done it and lost 6 months of my life I will never get back to depression and illness. If I come across strong its because like nini, Ive been there and done it...

I might still be doing it had it not for several people giving me strong advice! (because I certainly am one stubborn SOB)

Ive also made strong posts before... apologised and then had the person who's question it was say "nope that's exactly what I needed"

gluten-free does NOT MEAN sharing a toaster or wooden cutting board or wooden utensils or collanders or cast iron pans or scratched non stick pans... if you are sharing those with a non gluten-free person, YOU are technically not gluten-free, you are gluten lite. Even if you FEEL fine, remember that it only takes ONE molecule of gluten to continue to cause damage to the villi in the small intestine. Just because YOU don't react outwardly, doesn't mean it's not continuing to damage your insides leaving you prone to all kinds of complications down the road and def. continued depression and anxiety disorders.

Exactly and as someone else said "being a little celiac is like being a little bit pregnant" .. you either are or you are not.

I am a scientist .. I'm not given to beleiving anything without proof...but my experience and that of others has caused me to realise saying "all distilled liquor is OK" is not true.... and even if it is and those of us who do react are suffering physcosomatic symptoms (which I don't believe) then it is still better to be safe.

and when he gives advice, one better listen.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion... but telling someone John Grisham is a better writer than Tom Clancy is not the same as telling them a bit of cross contamination is OK, its more like saying "Yesterday I walked across the street with a paper bag over my head and didn't get knocked down so its OK for you to do it"

No its not... we all live in different neighbourhoods... heck I could probably lie on my road blindfolded for 1/2 hr.(on Sundays, Saturdays...is a different matter since I live right next to a synaogue and Jewish cultural centre).. you might have just been lucky?

The point is overall its not good to say "crossing the road blindfiolded is OK" but saying always stop on the sidewalk and look both ways twice is good info.. its not going to kill or hurt anyone! you can even say it to me on Sunday and being careful won't hurt me....

[queenofhearts]

Lest anyone imagine that gfp is the timid, overly cautious type, I would like to point out that on his questionnaire he states he has gone bungee jumping!

[eKatherine]

Me, I think that we have become spoiled by "convenience" to the extent that many of us have come to believe that it is the natural order of things, rather than a technologically-driven blip on the face of the logistics of life. But even believing this, I definitely think that cooking two meals at a time is one too many. I would put my foot down. Share that inconvenience with them. If they don't find tonight's meal satisfying, there's the store, buy a snack.

[CarlaB]

Sure but using the same pan scourer and sponges is NOT safe.... or even close.

Oh, I got rid of the dishtowels and only use paper .... need to get new sponges ... ugh.

Nini, is it you who has a bird, or Tiffany? Is there a gluten-free bird food?

[gfp]

Oh, I got rid of the dishtowels and only use paper .... need to get new sponges ... ugh.

Nini, is it you who has a bird, or Tiffany? Is there a gluten-free bird food?

My wild birds get a string bag with mixed stuff... like nuts and seeds (and raisins - I pull out of gluten-free muesli) bits of dried fruits and sunflower seeds etc... in the winter I add extra fat... although I'll sometimes give em a fresh olive in summer

I guess they don't need a "complete" diet since they are wild.... but they seem to like it. (except almonds??? I had this bad the moths got into so I have it to the birds and they just left it)

Sponges and stuff:

Yeah.. I mean an easy test is just food coloring try scrubbing off pasta stuck the the bottom of a pan...

(add some food color and let it soak into the burned pasta)

you'll be amazed how hard it is to get off the sponge/scourer completly... I did this with my mom...she threw everything out when she saw.

If you are really organised you might get away with different colored sponges... but honestly sooner or later you will mess up...

Open Original Shared Link

it happens to everyone but if you are the type of celaic who put's their keys in the fridge and glasses in the oven then.....

[CarlaB]

My bird loves almonds ... he can crack them open with his beak! Thankfully he does not see my finger as food! He does need a more complete diet than a wild bird ... well, technically speaking all birds are wild, he's just not "in the wild."

[tarnalberry]

I have a bird as well, and his food is not gluten free (pellet). He's a conure, however, and I don't usually have to touch his food and it is fairly well contained, so I don't really worry about contamination. I don't pick him up if his beak is dirty, and he enjoys frequent showers, but it hasn't been a problem. (I'm *not* a fan of seed/nut mixes for captive birds, as they're not a good complete diet.)

[CarlaB]

I have a cockatoo. His pellets also are not gluten-free, I was hoping you had found some that were. My biggest concern is that he lives in the kitchen, which I have been trying to get completely gluten-free. I guess his pellets will be the exception. His cage is so big, there is really no where else to put it that is in a busy area of the house as he likes being around us all the time.

[bklynceliac]

a bit off topic -- gfp, from what you said it sounded like raisins could be a gluten problem? Or am I misreading?

[gfp]

a bit off topic -- gfp, from what you said it sounded like raisins could be a gluten problem? Or am I misreading?

No i just dislike them and the bords love them....

I used to pick em out and throw them away but when I moved I started sticking them in a bag for the birds and adding nuts and things.

[cgilsing]

Breakfast is my toughest meal. I haven't grasped the concept as my doctor would say, forget all you know about breakfast. Just eat, even if it is left over gluten-free dinner. But breakfast in my mind is... bagels, english muffins, toast, pancakes, french toast, in a box already made by Thomas, Lenders, Eggo or Aunt Jermina (sad isn't it, not even eggs hit the list, but really what is an overeasy egg without toast). But I will stock up on fruit and nuts and try to grasp that will be my new breakfast (if I have time, maybe an occassional omellette).

Hey Jen!

I'm way late on this conversation, and I second what eveybody has said about only cooking one meal (my husband has gone up 2 pant sizes while eating my gluten-free meals....he obviously can't tell the difference ) Try making things that are naturally gluten-free instead of always using specialty ingredients. We are having oven fried pork chops, fried apples, and mashed potatoes for dinner for an example. I'm using rice flour for the chops....but seriously no one would EVER know the difference. Someone may have already mentioned this, but for breakfast (because I know how rushed things can be and a pre-packaged meal is often a must!) Jimmy Dean just came out with a breakfast bowl thing that has bacon, eggs, potatoes, cheese....and most importantly NO WHEAT! I tried it this morning...very good! It's a regular old meal for regular people too....not special gluten-free! I'm sure someone has probably brought up VANs waffles too....very good and now being carried at Wal-Mart and Kroger!

[Queen Serenity]

Ok, everyone,

I'm sorry if you feel my part of the thread was harsh, but I don't believe in scare tactics. Yes, it's bad for any of us to eat anything with gluten. Yes, she certainly hasn't made the transition yet. But everyone seems to accept the truth at their own pace, even if they get sick as a dog. I personally went cold turkey, because it scared the crap out of me! As far as with my own life, I have never had any problems with sharing household items. I wash all of my dishes in extremely hot soapy water, and I don't use sponges. If you look at the world, no one should use sponges, because they retain so many germs. I cook for my family, on occasion some gluten products. I have never become ill from doing this. As far as the other products, it's mostly cereal, cookies, waffles, and other treats. I don't feel that having these things around you will necessarily hurt you, unless you sit there and eat them. I do all of the cooking, so there is never anything else around the house, unless I buy it. As far as take-out, it is a rare occasion. That kind of stuff stopped a long time ago. Everyone also has to realize that gluten intolerence comes in many degrees. Some people have it worse than others. So, maybe my intolerence isn't as bad as gfp. Who knows? Today, we are cronically surrounded by gluten filled products. It's a harsh world we live in. I agree with gfp on a lot of his points. I didn't disagree with everything. So, gfp, I'm sorry if you didn't like my opinion. I'm just a different kind of person, and beleive in trying to help anyone one step at a time. I do have one additional thing to say, because of my Celiac's, I have hypothyroidism. I guess having a very good intolerence level came with a high price.

Vicki

Gluten free for 11 years

[penguin]

I don't think it's scare tactics, more like people's experience and wanting to help others. That doesn't make your points any less valid, however. It's been my experience that being around flour and sharing toasters makes me sick. Therefore, by my experience, I would suggest seperate toasters. But yes, everyone has to "get with the program" so to speak, in their own time.

Personally, unless I'm cooking in a restaurant, I'm not cooking more than one meal at a time. Even then I might require a sous chef. I found that most everything I made for dinner was gluten-free anyway, and the things that weren't (pasta, for example), were easily converted. It takes some time, but it's a family disease.

I allow gluten things in my house, with the exception of anything loose flour based (flour, cake mixes, etc). I personally also kept my pans that are nonstick. HOWEVER - They are only a year old and have never seen a metal utensil. We take very good care of pans. I did replace the wooden and nylon spoons, and DH has a pot for gluten things.

It's a learning curve, you'll get there

[Queen Serenity]

Hi.

I'm glad that you think that this is a family disease. You are 100% correct. I am the kind of mom, with two growing boys, ages 11 and 14, who hasn't had the heart to make them 100% gluten free. I also have a two year old daughter, who I allow only certain gluten filled items. I'm glad yo hear that there are no more wooden spoons, though. Like sponges, they retain all kinds of things.

Vicki

Gluten free 11 years

[gfp]

Hi.

I'm glad that you think that this is a family disease. You are 100% correct. I am the kind of mom, with two growing boys, ages 11 and 14, who hasn't had the heart to make them 100% gluten free. I also have a two year old daughter, who I allow only certain gluten filled items. I'm glad yo hear that there are no more wooden spoons, though. Like sponges, they retain all kinds of things.

Vicki

Gluten free 11 years

Vicki....

A lot of my "harshness" is perhaps incredbiity that JennFog is cooking things for her husband he can't be bothered to go and shop and cook himself?

I find this in itself bizarre.

Sometimes my girlfriend will ask me to cook something time consuming (not even non gluten-free) and I will just tell her to cook it herself... sure I do 90% of the cooking but its not my job! Quite often I will make something special she likes... but of she ever wants something that takes more than 24 hours she is quite able to go out and buy the ingredients and cook herself whatever so long as its gluten-free.

Sometimes she does and I still end up helping because she is quite sensitive to cutting onions... and i am a lot more able with a knife. (An onion takes less than 10 seconds to skin and dice )

I am the kind of mom, with two growing boys, ages 11 and 14, who hasn't had the heart to make them 100% gluten free.

But even if you cook 100% gluten-free at home they can still eat outside?

As I said earlier.... I don't know anyone who is 100% gluten-free... I don't believe its possible unless you cook everything at home from ingredients that cannot possibly be CC'd.

However: Just because you don't react outwardly doesn't mean you are not damaging yourself.

More importantly unless you have ever been 100% gluten-free then I think it is possible that you simply fail to notice some of the symptoms.

Most of the people who go 100% gluten-free actually experience relief from symptoms they never realised they had.

Equally a large proportion of these people then realise that even the slightest CC brings back these symptoms.

I asked if you believe the medical evidence for neurological symptoms and depression but you didn't answer.

The reason I asked this is because these symptoms seem far more sensitive than D.

For a long time I had a list of otherwise harmless things ranging from specific brands of asprin to tortilla chips which made me ill. When the new labelling laws came into effect the asprin I had foiund made me ill now says "contains gluten" ... the specific brand of tortilla chips says "may contain traces of gluten" .... indeed this list is well over 100 items long...

The point is when I was gluten-free-lite I didn't notice these .. it was only after going 100% gluten-free that I started to find mysterious CC and glutening like symptoms.

Now I had the same problem with my mother: she read the literature from CUK (since she lives there) followed the advice of the dietician (to only eat items marked gluten-free which in the UK means low gluten) and continued giving her dog biscuits....and a year later she was still ill (although very much better than before)

I took the time to go and live with her for a few weeks.... I put on a lab mask and disposable lab coveralls and we cleaned everything out.... all her utensils which were not stainless were put in the garage etc. and I thorgoughly cleaned the dishwasher, vacuum etc.

Then I cooked gluten-free pasta and added a very strong dye... (alzarin) since its easy to make at home and illustrated where the gluten went. (and also easy to get rid of afterwards)

Even better would have been a flourescent tracer.... because this would show that as she vacuumed the dog biscuits up gluten comes out into the air and remains airborne for along time. (unless you own an anti-allergenic vacuum)

What you call paranoia I call being careful. I have worked in labs with chemicals far less toxic than gluten.

Would you cook with rat poision and then stick things in a dishwasher? Use the same pan?

and yet many rat poisions are not particualrly toxic in small doses. Indeed many people take rat poision (Warfarin) every day of their lives in greater quantities than causes a celiac to produce anti-bodies and still others ingest its natural equivalent (coumarin) unknowingly in lavendar or liquorice and as an additive to tobacco until 1977 (in the US)... indeed it is possible to use coumarin instead of fluorescein as it is a natural flourescent dye.

[Guest nini]

my husband eats gluten foods... if he wants something with gluten in it, he cooks it himself. I won't cook with it at all. Initially I would do two pots of pasta, but that just got wasteful and he likes the gluten-free pasta, so I just stick with that. I do most of the cooking but also it's not MY job...

[gfp]

Initially I would do two pots of pasta, but that just got wasteful and he likes the gluten-free pasta, so I just stick with that.

I used to do this for reasons of economy and ... well not forcing my food on visitors etc.

Then one day I cooked the two pasta's in different pots with different spoons and lo and behold I serve myself the gluten-free pasta shells and find a pasta spiral in.....

Now given I'm the sort of person who find's his keys i the fridge and such I guess it was absent mindnedness but I really believed I couldn't have done this....I was sure I was being careful... ??

my husband eats gluten foods... if he wants something with gluten in it, he cooks it himself. I won't cook with it at all. I do most of the cooking but also it's not MY job...

That is how I feel.... I cook because I enjoy it and dare i say Im good at it... but I'm not being paid to do it.

Now I'm not a big fan of prawns .... I'm not rabidly anti prawn or allergic I just don't rate them...

but the other day I saw some nice fresh tiger prawns and bought themfor my gluten-free...

I marinaded them for 6-8 hours then cooked them in the marinade..(for which I bought fresh lemongrass and ginger actually whipped some leaves off a lime tree {couldn't find fresh ones to buy}) then peeled them down to the tail removed the digestive tract with a knife and made a gluten-free tempura batter from seasoned buckwheat.... cooked them individually so that only the tiny tail stuck out while serving them with a saffron flavoured coconut rice.

Meanwhile I made myself a quick teriyaki marinade sliced up some beef and marinaded the slices..

So I am quite happy to spend some effort on cooking and even make 2 dishes but Im not willing to take the risk of CC or mistakes on using gluten.

[JennFog]

Well I have been gone for the weekend and I am now back with exciting news.

I appreciate everyone's input. I read them all.

As far as all the posts - very overwhelming and nothing at this point is too harsh (after the way my doctor treated me). I need it straight to the point. Today I have found out that I need separate cutting boards, sponges, etc. I was thinking at first you have got to be kidding me , but I have to stop thinking this way and do what will make me healthy again.

When I was diag'd in Feb '06, I had that attitude, you've got to be kidding me and followed the diet on and off again (more than likely due to the difficulty of making 2 meals). I had only gotten sicker and sicker. In June, my doctor's assistant sat me down and said to me, you can die, you can have osteoporisis, I personally don't care especially if you are not going to do what you need to do. The last words out of his mouth were "if you need a pyschatrist I can refer you to a good one, who can help you sort out your food issues". I was shocked, i don't have food issues, I don't need a shrink for this, I need a personal 100% gluten-free chef.

So I have been doing the best I can possibly can. With a few flaws, but 99% better than before. I am getting the hang of it and I now understand the importance of it.

This weekend I spoke with my husband and he just didn't realize how sick and weak I am, he thought this was just a diet thing and it was going to go away. He now realizes how important it is that I don't eat gluten or cross-contaminate gluten. And that I am too tired to have 6 pots cooking at one time for 2 meals.

Yesterday we went to d'angelos sandwich shop, looked online at the menu ahead of time, knew I was going to get a blt w/ cheese and mushrooms - no bread. The kid behind the counter looked at me stunned, "no bread how do I do that", as my husband pipes up, "yeah she can't have bread it makes her sick, put it in a bowl". Which I thought was adorable, he was actually standing up for me. So the kid had to ask someone, how to make the computer do that, and everyone else behind the counter, knew how. One woman said you have that gluten thing huh? And told me, they could accommodate me anytime.

[queenofhearts]

What great news! Good for your husband & the sandwich shop too! I predict you'll be feeling better soon.

Leah

[Queen Serenity]

Hi!

I wouldn't trust eating out, even if it was put into a bowl. But, it was a thoughtful gesture on your husband's part. Cross contamination is high out there in the real world. Try and stick to the stuff you prepare yourself. I'm also glad that your doctor told you off. It was for your own good. No one deserves to be ill all of the time. Please take care of yourself! Good Luck!

GFP,

As to answer your questions, I have never heard of being affected neurologically by Celiac's. That's an interesting concept. Where did you get your info? The only condition that ever appeared after I was diagnosed was hypothyroidism. As far as 100% gluten free, everywhere we go outside of our homes can pose some risk. It's in the air! So, you are correct, nobody is 100% gluten free. I work in the supermarket business as a retail merchandiser, so I'm exposed to all kinds of food. As far as products are concerned, I had done a lot of research, and made a lot of phone calls to various companies, before eating anything. This includes all the medicines I have taken. As far as my husband goes, he can't cook worth a darn! So, that's why I'm in charge. But, to be honest, when I said that I prepare pasta for the family, it's actually a rare occurence. They eat the majority of their meals that are prepared to my lifestyle, and believe it or not, they enjoy it. The only gluten they get away with is during the breakfast rush, since they do not eat with me. Cereal, waffles, etc. Also dessert foods after dinner, but that's it. I think I will take your advice, and keep a seperate pot for their pasta, just because you did some science experiments! And before I forget, as far as my toaster is concerned, I rarely use it, because I'm not a big bread eater. It is just to expensive for me to buy, and I treat myself occasionally. Maybe, this is why I don't notice any symptoms of cross contamination. Who knows?

Vicki

11 years and still counting

[cgilsing]

Hi!

I wouldn't trust eating out, even if it was put into a bowl. But, it was a thoughtful gesture on your husband's part. Cross contamination is high out there in the real world. Try and stick to the stuff you prepare yourself. I'm also glad that your doctor told you off. It was for your own good. No one deserves to be ill all of the time. Please take care of yourself! Good Luck!

GFP,

As to answer your questions, I have never heard of being affected neurologically by Celiac's. That's an interesting concept. Where did you get your info? The only condition that ever appeared after I was diagnosed was hypothyroidism. As far as 100% gluten free, everywhere we go outside of our homes can pose some risk. It's in the air! So, you are correct, nobody is 100% gluten free. I work in the supermarket business as a retail merchandiser, so I'm exposed to all kinds of food. As far as products are concerned, I had done a lot of research, and made a lot of phone calls to various companies, before eating anything. This includes all the medicines I have taken. As far as my husband goes, he can't cook worth a darn! So, that's why I'm in charge. But, to be honest, when I said that I prepare pasta for the family, it's actually a rare occurence. They eat the majority of their meals that are prepared to my lifestyle, and believe it or not, they enjoy it. The only gluten they get away with is during the breakfast rush, since they do not eat with me. Cereal, waffles, etc. Also dessert foods after dinner, but that's it. I think I will take your advice, and keep a seperate pot for their pasta, just because you did some science experiments! And before I forget, as far as my toaster is concerned, I rarely use it, because I'm not a big bread eater. It is just to expensive for me to buy, and I treat myself occasionally. Maybe, this is why I don't notice any symptoms of cross contamination. Who knows?

Vicki

11 years and still counting

Hey Vicki!

Just thought I would share that I'm like you and don't eat bread often (It's just not something I crave). I don't have a lot of counter space either, so it seems silly to me to get a seperate toaster. On the rare occation that I'm going to eat toast I turn on the broiler and broil my toast! It works great and I don't have to worry about CC. (At least I don't.....I know a lot of people don't allow any gluten in their house....my husband gets bread and crackers....I like to live on the wild side )

[gfp]

Well I have been gone for the weekend and I am now back with exciting news.

I appreciate everyone's input. I read them all.

As far as all the posts - very overwhelming and nothing at this point is too harsh (after the way my doctor treated me). I need it straight to the point. Today I have found out that I need separate cutting boards, sponges, etc. I was thinking at first you have got to be kidding me , but I have to stop thinking this way and do what will make me healthy again.

Thank you....

When I was diag'd in Feb '06, I had that attitude, you've got to be kidding me and followed the diet on and off again (more than likely due to the difficulty of making 2 meals). I had only gotten sicker and sicker. In June, my doctor's assistant sat me down and said to me, you can die, you can have osteoporisis, I personally don't care especially if you are not going to do what you need to do. The last words out of his mouth were "if you need a pyschatrist I can refer you to a good one, who can help you sort out your food issues". I was shocked, i don't have food issues, I don't need a shrink for this, I need a personal 100% gluten-free chef.

I think you might look back and see this was actually a really good Dr. giving you 110% and actually trying to shock you into the seriousness of this.

Ahem... anyone who says "I personally don't care" in this context obviously does! If he didn't care he wouldn't have said anything!

So I have been doing the best I can possibly can. With a few flaws, but 99% better than before. I am getting the hang of it and I now understand the importance of it.

This really is the hardest part.... most of us go through denial of some sort. Many of us even start to doubt a diagnosis and tell ourselves... "We are not so sensitive.".. I remember all to well....

This weekend I spoke with my husband and he just didn't realize how sick and weak I am, he thought this was just a diet thing and it was going to go away. He now realizes how important it is that I don't eat gluten or cross-contaminate gluten. And that I am too tired to have 6 pots cooking at one time for 2 meals.

This is really necassary.... really you are already making huge steps. When you are part of a family you simply can't do this without everyone being on board... you and they need to realise.. this is not like weight watchers where you can cheat a bit one day and make up for it the next.... its a medical condition and the only treatment is a strict gluten-free diet.

Yesterday we went to d'angelos sandwich shop, looked online at the menu ahead of time, knew I was going to get a blt w/ cheese and mushrooms - no bread. The kid behind the counter looked at me stunned, "no bread how do I do that", as my husband pipes up, "yeah she can't have bread it makes her sick, put it in a bowl". Which I thought was adorable, he was actually standing up for me. So the kid had to ask someone, how to make the computer do that, and everyone else behind the counter, knew how. One woman said you have that gluten thing huh? And told me, they could accommodate me anytime.

Your hubby supporting you is a very big step... personally I would say be really wary of eating out for 3 months or so as your body recovers.... the problem is a tiny glutening now can knock you back in the recovery far more than the same glutening once you have overcome the worst of it.

The problem is the bone crushing tiredness doesn't encourage this!

Its a bit of a trap.... catch-22 which is why I beleive its SO IMPORTANT to get support from spouse, family etc.

Whenever you are glutened your body makes antibodies... just like getting a cold or flu.... and this in itself makes you tired. When you have been glutened for a long time this builds up... it becomes much more than just tired...

and at the same time you are not adsorbing the nutrients in your food.

Now to answer a bit more of this and also Queen serenity at the same time

I have never heard of being affected neurologically by Celiac's. That's an interesting concept. Where did you get your info?

One of the members here has a nice summary

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From: Neurologic Manifestations of Gastrointestinal Disease by Mark B. Skeen, MD, Neurologic Clinics, Volume 20, Number 1, February 2002

"Neurologic disease associated with gluten sensitivity or celiac disease includes a wide range of manifestations:

Central nervous system (CNS) manifestations include dementia, cerebellar ataxia, myelopathy, encephalopathy, brain stem encephalitis, progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy,chronic, progressive leukoencephalopathy, progressive myoclonic ataxia, seizures, isolated CNS vasculitis, and a syndrome of celiac disease with encephalopathy and bilateral occipital calcifications.”

“Several reports document the existence of peripheral neuropathy in association with celiac disease.”

Follow the link because it links to many others and the individual medical papers.

Specifically (and don't scare yourself silly reading this)

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As far as my husband goes, he can't cook worth a darn! laugh.gif

Ah, come-on.. we are only talking about following instructions on a packet of gluten-free pasta?

Yeah... he'll probably mess it up once or twice... but ...he'll only appreciate you all the more...

So, that's why I'm in charge. But, to be honest, when I said that I prepare pasta for the family, it's actually a rare occurence.

That makes a huge difference.........

The thing is humans are creatures of habit. We have lots of semi-autonomous habits... like driving or riding a bike where we don't really think about what we are doing.

For example .. I already said about cutting onions... now obviously a razor sharp knife is a dangerous thing (all of my knives are razor sharp) but I have so much practice I can chop an onion without really even paying attention or looking any more than I think about balancing riding a bike.

I can chop an onion and then find it had a bad centre or its a twin.. and I then realise I wasn't actually looking at what I was chopping... and razor sharp for me means if i place the knife on a tomato its weight will cut clean through..

Cooking is for those who do it everyday a semi-autonomous action. However when we make it a special case we actually do pay attention... back to that onion .. my normal onion chopping skills sometimes leave tiny bits of skin in the onion ... sometimes I just chopped brocolli or something else on the board...

BUT when I cook for guests I take longer cutting the onion.... I make sure I clean anything else off the board and make sure non of the skin gets into the pan...

So I think if you make a special case..(like a special treat).. keep a seperate pan etc. bear in mind that you are mentally cooking poision you force the effort. But if you just do this as an everyday occurence you soon relax the vigilance...

If you read the neuropathy papers you can see that no D doesn't mean no damage!

Indeed even for normal classic villi problems no D doesn't mean no prob's.

I think I will take your advice, and keep a seperate pot for their pasta, just because you did some science experiments! biggrin.gif

I also used to work in an analytical lab.... when anyone starts they always think the contamination rules are stupid and harsh.... until results would start showing contamination.

One lab I worked in analysed oils and one of the lab techs messed with his car over lunch one day.while wearing his lab clothes (he only played with the timing and went nowhere near the oil).. and had a synthetic oil (very very noticable on a GC/MS trace) .... it took weeks to get of the traces of synthetic oils (and a few 10's of thousands of $) ... and all he had done was touch a few pieces of glass wear...

In the end we had to analyse his oil and then remove it from hundreds of results....

And before I forget, as far as my toaster is concerned, I rarely use it, because I'm not a big bread eater. It is just to expensive for me to buy, and I treat myself occasionally. Maybe, this is why I don't notice any symptoms of cross contamination. Who knows?

You don't need a quality one then.. if its rarely used a cheapo $20 one from somewhere is good enough? Apart from toasting gluten-free stuff almost always means messing with the settings anyway...

Expense is relative... eKatherine made a really stunning comment the other day... about a paper saying "the gluten-free diet is expensive" ... as she said what is the cost of a lifetime gluten-free diet against a single biopsy? but more importantly against complications ... like thyroid or lymphoma....

As Ursula pointed out the other day... "she counts herself lucky to react" .. I agree... much as it would be nice to not react at inconvenient times to traces of gluten at least I spot them ...

[JennFog]

I am sorry I can't remember who gave me the rice cake idea for breakfast, but thank you, this has completely changed my life, it's great. Each morning I grab couple rice cakes spread some pb or cc on it, a rice pudding and a piece of fruit. My breakfast has been reinvented. This was my hardest meal, now my days are going so much smoother. This was just the thing I needed to be 100% gluten-free.

Well just admitting 2 other things...

One - Sunday night after having the talk with my husband that I would only cook 1 meal... I cooked 2. Tacos for dinner... My husband and son wanted to try this cheesy taco packet, of course, wheat right there on the label. So I cooked them 1 lb. & I made a 1/2 lb for me with a gluten-free taco packet. But the cheesy taco packet is out of their system, they tried it, not that great. So for future taco dinners, it will be gluten-free for all.

Two - Monday made gluten free pasta, husband & son had no clue. Not a word said, I am actually shocked, that they didn't say anything to me. I know they know I can't have pasta & I am sure they didn't see me cooking. If they did see me cooking then they were just good sports, but really it's not like them. So I assume they just weren't paying attention, so if they notice the next time, i can just say "you ate it before".

And gfp, you are a fountain of knowledge, i will be asking you a many of questions.