Update, Saw Doctor

[Ursa Major]

Carla, thanks for starting this thread and the link. I read through it, and I have all but two of the symptoms! Even though the diet has brought my pain, diarrhea and bowel problems under control and made me much better, I am still always awfully tired. I have heart palpitations all the time, too, and all the other symptoms.

After reading through the whole explanation I will definitely look into it. I've been under tremendous stress all my life, due to emotional abuse and bullying all through my growing up years, and then the abuse from my husband. And that with a reduced ability to tolerate stress due to Asperger Syndrome! It would be amazing if I did NOT have adrenal fatigue.

I think I'll get in touch with a naturopathic doctor to see if this is another problem I have that can be fixed.

One problem is going to be that several of the things Dr. Lam suggests to be eating are high in salicylates (like licorice, for instance). So, it will be sort of tricky for me.

I hope you will feel better and more energetic, too. With so many kids still so young, you sure need to have more energy (not that ONE teenager and a rotten 21-year-old in my house aren't enough to wear me out, not to mention a rotten husband ).

[CarlaB]

Ursula, I'm glad this may help you. Most of the foods he suggests are just the very basics, so I think you still can feel better even without the foods you cannot eat. Stress is the biggie for you, I'm sure. The more I read about this, the more I think many of us have these symptoms.

[bluejeangirl]

Ursula, I'm glad this may help you. Most of the foods he suggests are just the very basics, so I think you still can feel better even without the foods you cannot eat. Stress is the biggie for you, I'm sure. The more I read about this, the more I think many of us have these symptoms.

I read a real good book a couple years ago called The Schwarzbein Principle 2 by Diana Schwarzbein, MD.

I have the same problem. Just alittle stress really does me in. Once your adrenals become underactive you start to crave sugar, coffee, even excercize because it kicks it up and you start to feel good. To really start to heal you have to rest and slowly give up the food cravings. She explains the perfect diet to be on in the book. Which is probably alot like you eat already. She explains that excersize uses up all your biochemicals. Your ablility to rebuild those biochemicals is difficult when your have low adrenal levels. To make matters worse you can have a difficult time eating enough food to match the activity level because adrenaline is a natural appetite suppressant. What you don't want to do is skip meals.

Anyway the book is great and I think you'll enjoy reading it.

Let us know what your learning because I'd enjoy the input as well.

Gail

[CarlaB]

Thanks for the recommendation, Gail. That is exactly what was happening to me, lots of coffee, some sugar, and exercise. I quit all three cold turkey ... I'm going to look into some exercise that promotes relaxation, which I've read is okay to do, and I've read that Tai Chi is effective cardiovascularly but relaxing.

What I've read has also said that this is something most people never overcome because they think they can go on exactly the way they have been and be okay. It takes a lifestyle change that sometimes requires a job change, etc. so people are just unwilling to do it. I'm the typical, busy, do a lot kind of person and have had a lot of stress starting about six years ago (we're more settled now), so between that and the gluten intolerance, I guess I was asking for it!

The appetite suppresant sounds like me, too. I have to force myself to eat.

[jerseyangel]

I have Dr. Schwarzbein's first book--"The Schwarzbein Principle". I read it years ago, and found it helpful to me at the time.

Carla--I've been researching adrenal fatigue. I have most of the symptoms listed--I have palpitations, the sleep problems listed (exactly), was on a very low protein diet for years, drank lots of caffein, too much sugar, and on and on. This is so interesting. Through a lot of trial and error (which I've talked about many times here), I now gravitate to the very diet that they recommend. Of course, I was really looking for a way to relieve my GI issues and anxiety, but it makes me feel a bit better overall.

I'm sticking with this, and adding a few of the recommendations that I'm learning about. It certainly can't hurt! I'm looking forward to seeing how you and Ursula do with this, as I'm excited with what I'm finding out. A lot of things seem to fit.

[Ursa Major]

One thing that also really gets me is, that he says that people with low adrenal function often don't feel like eating breakfast (no appetite at all), and that is about the worst thing to do. It's going to be a big challenge for me to eat breakfast before 10:00 AM, because I have a habit of not eating anything until the afternoon, I simply have no appetite until then. And then to eat already again before noon!

And then to be in bed before 10:00 PM, yuck, that's when I'm usually wide awake. But what Dr. Lam says makes sense, so I'm going to do my best to follow the advice, hopefully it will help.

Unfortunately, he also says to get rid of the sources of stress. Can I get rid of my abusive husband and daughter? Well, theoretically I could, of course. But in reality that is easier said than done (sigh).

Now my husband is starting to question my need to talk to my counsellor once a week (an absolute necessity to keep my stress level down). Apparently, he isn't 'quoting the bible enough', and 'exhorting me several times during each session to follow biblical principles'. In fact, in order to be well (including low adrenal function, which he questions I am right about), all I need is to read the bible more, and to follow the teachings in it, according to him.

So, since he pays for counselling, he is adding a ton more stress now, because now I am very worried about him cutting me off from my counsellor! Who probably literally saved my life, because without him I'd likely have followed through on a plan (which I am not giving details on for obvious reasons) last year.

[CarlaB]

Ursula, I'm with you, I usually don't eat till lunch, even then it's sometimes 2PM. I also am not ready for bed at 10 as I function better late ... always have. I've read this stuff on more than one site though, so I'm sure it's what's necessary. I've been doing most of the things, except the 10 PM bedtime, and my lower back, where the adrenals are is very SORE!!! I don't know if this is a good sign or a bad sign.

I'm sorry things are still going poorly on your homefront. I hope you are able to make some changes there as I remember you discussing at one point. It's remarkable that you have kept your faith with someone showing such a poor example.

Here's another good article I found. Open Original Shared Link

[IMResident]

Carla,

why is your doctor looking at your hair samples again? That sounds a bit fishy to me.

To diagnose adrenal insufficency all you'd need to do is measure blood glucocorticoid levels.

By the way, adrenal insufficency causes fasting hypoglycemia, low blood pressure, and a life threatening adrenal crisis with severe vomiting, shock and death if untreated. This adrenal crisis occurs in times of stress or even after drinking a lot of water. So adrenal insufficency is a serious disorder and if your doctor suspects it than he/she should do a blood test not a hair test.

[CarlaB]

Carla,

why is your doctor looking at your hair samples again? That sounds a bit fishy to me.

To diagnose adrenal insufficency all you'd need to do is measure blood glucocorticoid levels.

By the way, adrenal insufficency causes fasting hypoglycemia, low blood pressure, and a life threatening adrenal crisis with severe vomiting, shock and death if untreated. This adrenal crisis occurs in times of stress or even after drinking a lot of water. So adrenal insufficency is a serious disorder and if your doctor suspects it than he/she should do a blood test not a hair test.

Thank you for your information. She does not suspect an adrenal insufficiency, rather something of a subclinical variety. The hair samples are a mineral test to check various levels. I've posted some articles that I have read on here, and admittedly conventional medicine does not usually recognized this problem, even though it was recognized in the past. Conventional medicine can't explain to me why I'm so sick I can hardly get out of bed ... so I was open to something a little different.

I wanted to add, my doctor is an MD and does practice conventional medicine. However, she was tired of people who were sick coming to her and having conventional tests show they were well. So, she is researching things of a less-traditional variety and is helping many people this way.

[IMResident]

I would just like to add an interesting fact.

Cortisol, in traditional medicine, has been researched for the treatement of fatigue especially when assosciated with atypical depression. In "atypical" depression, there are low brain CRH levels (the releasing hormone for adrenal hormones) as well as low blood ACTH and cortisol levels during times of stress and this causes fatigue, hypersomnia (sleeping too much) and generally feeling just tired all the time. So maybe traditional and non-traditional medicine have different names for the same disease. But don't get me wrong I am not saying that anybody is depressed here.

[Judyin Philly]

Carla

So glad your getting answers.

You are really giving me some valid info.

I sure fit this profile esp the sleeping thing it's 12:15 am and wide awake and each breakfast/lunch at 2:00 in the afternoon..better start reading this info asap in the am. i did print some the threads earlier abut haven't read them yet but one.

so hope this helps you

judy

[IMResident]

Also keep in mind that the adrenal hormones are the hormones in the body that you'd least likely to mess around with.

If you take adrenal hormones for a long time (even a low dose), than afterwards you'll develop a disease called secondary Addison's disease (it means life threateningly low levels of cortisol) for as much as 6-12 months ! This condition is serious.

The adrenal hormones are regulated by feedback loops, and even if you take a single dose of cortisol it acts on the hypothalamus to supress the release of CRH, so after the effects of the cortisol wear off you'll have even lower blood levels of cortisol than to begin with (because now you also have low CRH levels). This applies to any supplement which raises cortisol levels including licourice tea.

[CarlaB]

So, IMResident, what would be your suggestions for feeling better? I have the whole list of symptoms on the sites I've linked .... I have not taken any cortisol, but I do drink licorice tea.

I take it you're a doctor? It would be good to have a doctor's opinion on the thread. All the links I've put on here are also written by docs.

[IMResident]

So, IMResident, what would be your suggestions for feeling better? I have the whole list of symptoms on the sites I've linked .... I have not taken any cortisol, but I do drink licorice tea.

I take it you're a doctor? It would be good to have a doctor's opinion on the thread. All the links I've put on here are also written by docs.

I think stress reduction, excercise and lifestyle modifiction would be helpful. In other words everything Dr. Lam said with the exception of cortisol and licourice tea which would not only not help but could actually be dangerous.

[CarlaB]

I think stress reduction, excercise and lifestyle modifiction would be helpful. In other words everything Dr. Lam said with the exception of cortisol and licourice tea which would not only not help but could actually be dangerous.

Exercise would be nice, but unfortunately, I do not currently have the energy to do the tasks I should be doing. I don't have the stregth to go to the grocery and cook dinner ... it's one or the other!

[Ursa Major]

Exercise would be nice, but unfortunately, I do not currently have the energy to do the tasks I should be doing. I don't have the stregth to go to the grocery and cook dinner ... it's one or the other!

Yeah, me too. If I listen to people telling me to exercise, I take a week to recover sufficiently to do anything. Sometimes I barely have the energy to shower and actually get dressed afterwards without lying down first!

And, like you, usually I can either go shopping or cook, but not both. So, when I have to go shopping, I'll buy something like pizza for everybody else, and just eat a salad (if I have the energy for that).

[CarlaB]

Up till a month ago, I was dilligent about exercising (no, I didn't overtrain!). So, this fatigue is new to me ...

I've had it before though ... the first time was in college after several stressful events in a row ... anyway, I wouldn't get out of bed except to eat and go to class so my roommate took me to the emergency room. They found nothing. I had lots of digestive issues.

The second time was after a very stressful job in my early 20's Then we moved to another state. I couldn't work for three months. Because of my past experiences, I rode it out and never saw a doctor. Couldn't afford it anyway.

The third time was the beginning of this adventure of finding out about gluten intolerance. Then it was fine till about 2 months ago.

I know it can go away with a reduction in the stress, and the previous times I didn't even give up gluten. Our life has been very stressful over the past several months (years really, but the past few months were the hardest). So, now that things are calmed down, and I'm being good to myself and eating right, I hope it clears up soon.

Ursula, I really hope that there's something you can do about the stress you're under. I lived under a very similar stress years ago, and it was very much worth changing ... I'll leave it at that. I don't know about you, but I look forward to at least having the energy to take a nice walk!

[Ursa Major]

Carla, I've never really had any energy, even as a child. I thought everybody felt like that, and made myself do what my siblings did, even though I wasn't having any fun bikeriding, swimming, long walks, running around playing soccer etc., feeling so utterly exhausted. All my life I forced myself to do stuff anyway. I still do, because I have no choice. And it seems that the fatigue has been getting steadily worse all these years. It is slightly better now off gluten and all the other things I'm intolerant to. But I still feel like I just want to stay in bed all day, it takes great effort to get up and do anything.

Of course, my house never gets really clean, and my husband and kids think I am lazy. Nobody actually believes me that I am completely exhausted. They all expect me to do things I really can't do without overdoing it. It's very frustrating.

But I WILL see a naturopath next week. If I get tested and I can PROVE that I have adrenal fatigue, then they'll have to believe me. If a doctor actually orders rest, no exercise (they always claim that if only I'd exercise more, I'd feel SOOOOOO much better), no stress etc., maybe they'll be a little more considerate.

I know what you're saying about reducing stress. But you see, my stress tolerance is very low, change causes a lot of stress for me, too. I'm not sure what would be more stress right now, the change you're thinking of and all the ramifications that come with it, or leaving things as they are for the time being.

I'm seriously considering going to Germany for several months (maybe half a year) next year. My sister just got divorced and lives on her own, I could stay with her. Of course, I haven't talked about that idea with anybody here yet. But I'll work towards that goal.

[Judyin Philly]

Carla and Ursula- I'm so sorry your both feeling so badly.

The only thing that helps me when I'm this exhausted is swimming in a therapudic pool at 92 degrees. It helps me relax and helps the muscles and joints relax. Sure it's pain to go and change clothes etc but mentally i do find it helps me. All members in the class (about 8 ladies) are in the same boat physically as me ..one a car accident where they told her she'd be paralized for life and now uses a walker..so seeing them fighting helps me keep fighting to get my health back.

Ursula..I think given the history you discussed a few months back..going to Germany for 1/2 a year is the only way you can re duce your stress...you are fighting it so hard...my heart goes out to you.

love

judy

[Ursa Major]

Thanks, Judy. I tried swimming. And while I really enjoy swimming, I find it gets me to where afterwards I can't keep my eyes open from exhaustion, and have trouble driving home. I get awfully dizzy with tiredness after swimming, too. After I took my nephew to the beach last month (and we only swam around and snorkeled a bit for less than an hour), I had to fight terribly to stay awake on the drive home (it was only late afternoon, and I slept in that day).

At this point, pretty much all exercise is out. I think I'll concentrate on getting more (and earlier) sleep, eating more often and more regularly, seeing that naturopath in town, actually taking my vitamins, getting more fresh air and trying to not let things (and people) bother me so much.

Well, I got up because of a migraine, my pillow felt like a rock, but the painkillers are working now (sort of), and I am very sleepy and better go to bed.

[Judyin Philly]

At this point, pretty much all exercise is out. I think I'll concentrate on getting more (and earlier) sleep, eating more often and more regularly, seeing that naturopath in town, actually taking my vitamins, getting more fresh air and trying to not let things (and people) bother me so much.

Ursula, this sounds like a good plan. It's what I should do also

If i was swimming like you were I'd be exhausted too!!!!

My class is 1 hr but it's it's the warm temp water that relax's me..sometime i do the 'low workout' and sometimes just float and relax..anyway, just wanted you to know it's not the strenious 'arobic' workout.

Sorry about the dizziness...

will keep you in my prayers.

I'm now printing out the whole 'Adrenal' thread...It's amazing and as i skimmed it...i'm thinking wow it's me..

Will ask my chiro about the hair annylysis.

At one point years ago endocrinologist was testing my cortosal levels but didn't know why.

Think it was the '7 day urine jug thingy"

well going back to bed

judy

Clara HOW ARE YOU TODAY???

[CarlaB]

Thanks for asking, Judy. Yesterday I played my flute at Mass, went shopping for brunch at Wild Oats, then nearly fell asleep in the car on the way home (hubby was driving). I cooked breakfast, but everyone else served and cleaned. I was beat and rested the rest of the day. After dinner I took a walk. That's the most energy I've had in over a month! We'll see how today goes. I've been taking aspirin for my lower back pain and haven't had to take any today. Maybe that's a good sign. I seldom ever take any drugs, so it's a big deal if I'm taking them!

The thing for me is that I can't force myself to do more, or I get dizzy ... my body makes me sit down!

My problem is somewhat different than yours, Ursula. In high school and college, I had low energy, but for my adult life, I was very active. It's only recently, that I've become so fatigued. I guess it just hits everyone a little differently. And I know what you mean about the lesser of two stresses. I hope you can go to Germany for a time!

Judy, you might want to print out the info on the websites I linked, too. There's some good stuff there.

[bluejeangirl]

Carla and Ursula and others following this thread,

I was reading a link Carla sent and what hit me is the high copper levels with adrenals eshaustion. I wanted to know more so I googled copper toxicity. Wow what I read explained alot. I'll share what I wrote in my notes about it, and there is alot I didn't write down if you want to further your own study.

Some of the symptoms of high copper levels include:

A bluish tint to the whites of the eyes

A reddish tinge to the skin

Spinal degeneration

Osteo arthritis, or joint pain, swelling or stiffness, lax tendons dbl-jointed, hip dysplasia.

Brain fog, detached feeling, problems concentrating.

insomnia- as mind races, ( high copper to zinc levels)

Frontal headaches/migranins (high copper to mag. levels)

Moodiness, confusion, emotional instability.

Dyslexia, ADD.

Dizziness.

Hormonal- increased estrogen dominace causing anxiety, agetation, fluid retention, defensive, adrenal exhaustion, low throid, bruising, bledding gums, high blood sugar.

The article recommends taking addition zinc,

eating 6 smaller meals aday,

excercise in moderation,

reduce high copper to zince levels in foods.

amoung other things...I just jotted these.

Foods high in copper are:

Pork

salmon

organ meats

scallops

shrimp

nuts

seeds

mushrooms

all dried beans, peas, lentils

millet

bran

chocolate

dark meat on turkey and chicken.

So anyway I'm going to try working on lowering the foods I eat that are high in copper, and take zinc.

I eat alot of these foods expecially nuts and seeds and beans, millet and chocolate. This will be interesting, if it helps me with the sleep and moods I'd be so happy. I was surprized to see the ligaments are loose because I always had that problems and tried to google it along time ago and got nothing. I'm always popping and cracking and can easily bend like a prezel.

Copper who knew? Oh I stopped taking my multi. It had alot of copper in it.

Gail

[CarlaB]

Thank you, Gail, this is interesting!

I'll be anxious to see what the doc says when she gets the mineral analysis test back!

[Ursa Major]

That's interesting about the high copper levels. I've never really eaten a lot of the high copper foods, though. I have made an appointment to see a naturopath next week, and will mention that also. I hope they'll know what they're doing and get the appropriate testing done to figure out why I'm so exhausted all the time.