Alternative Cure? Or Am I Just Hopeful?

[Guest nini]

being that I am part of the alternative health care field (I'm a massage therapist working with Chiropractors), I tend to lean toward the alternative remedies. I've used colloidial silver with no ill effects and am healthier the longer I stay away from conventional medical Dr.s... just my opinion. It is always amazing to me just how diametrically oposed to alternative cures some people seem to be, and Quackwatch is just one of those sites that I have no respect for. They think Chiropractic and massage are quack treatments and I have no place for that kind of thinking.

I think in anything, you have to listen to your own body and be your own best judge of what works for you.

[daffadilly]

. I don't drink alcohol, soda, or coffee. Never really did actually. I do need to quit smoking which should come easily since menthol just doesn't *jive* with a salicylate allergy, nor does toothpaste or gum unfortunately:-(

Tailz, You can use baking soda for tooth paste. I really like it, my teeth are whiter & I do not have to worry about the additives and artificial sugar in toothpaste. Just have a little cup of water ready to rinse with, instead of trying to spit first

baking soda also makes a nice facial scrub, & I still get lots of compliments on my complexion at my old age.

Good Luck on quitting smoking. my mother with the DQ1 genes could not or would not, ever give it up & died from stomach cancer while she also had emphysema. She also had a ton of food allergies, she could never "get it" that she was not supposed to eat that food. They say that with the DQ1 gene & its neurological symptoms also includes the tendency to addictions. My mother was addicted to cigarettes & food & my sister is addicted to food.

[FaithInScienceToo]

Sorry, but I didn't have time to read ALL posts - just wanted to say that as someone with an MS degree in research and methodology AND as someone who (before learning about proper research) almost died from consuming 'only' 2 g of Trytophan back when the 'health nuts' said you could consume as much as you want...but it turned out later AFTER research that only 500mg was safe... I have to say:

It is IRRESPONSIBLE, once learning about scientific research, to take anything like colloidal silver until and unless there have been PROPER research studies, which means, in the best-case scenario - randomized double-blind studies with a big enough subject pool to give 'a true effect size'...

'Research' does NOT mean 'case studies,' which are merely accounts of a person's or of a few persons' experiences here or there...

PLEASE - this is YOUR life...if you are not terminally ill and haven't tried every other proven-safe health-enhancement technique, DON'T try it! It is not like just eliminating a food from your diet...it is introducing someone potentially life-threatening...

[eKatherine]

I don't know, Katherine. I kind of agree with Nini. Why so much opposition against alternative from modern medicine? I think the government and media distort the truth when it comes to alternative medicine. They downplay its benefits and attribute it to something else or claim it can't be proven. Or they make a big stink if someone on any supplement dies of anything without investigating what other factors were involved. Seriously. This isn't my own idea, but if every kid who gets hit by a car is wearing tennis shoes, do we say that tennis shoes are dangerous? Of course not, but that is essentially what we have done in the cases of argyria, and I'm sure pharmaceuticals paid to get that website to show up early in the search results. I mean look how many people use it or know someone who uses it and swears by it. If I'm going to become a recluse, it'll be from losing gum tissue to one allergic reaction after another, along with infection...not argyria.

All forms of alternative medicine are not created equal. Many are supported by studies that show their effectiveness. This one in particular has no science behind it much more recent than the turn of the century. That's where all the information you see quoted on these sales sites is based on. There are many remedies and treatments that have been abandoned in this timeframe in spite of the claims of cures by their ardent followers. Why are they no longer in use, then? Studies showed they were neither effective nor safe. This is what studies show about colloidal silver.I do think you're making a mistake.

Coloidal silver is harmless to a point, and if you reach that point, it wil be too late to change and go back. You will have no warning. One woman turned gray years after stopping treatment, another within two weeks of beginning treatment. Although the sites state that properly made collidal silver will not deposit in the body, the opposite is likely. Colloidal silver is the tiniest of particles. When they hit your stomach, the acid will dissolve them, they are carried into your bloodstream, and they will redeposit throughout your body.

But it's also a mistake to assume that the fact that the medical establishment is unanimously opposed to something is evidence that it is a safe, effective, and economical cure that will put doctors out of business. Doctors are unanimously opposed to lots of practices that are unsafe, "cures" that are toxic.

I guess you've decided to do this anyway, even knowing that there is zero evidence it has ever cured a leaky gut, or any other problem associated with gluten intolerance. Please post a picture when you turn gray.

[CarlaB]

I was always told that the reason rich people were called blue-bloods was because they never went outside, so their skin was very pale, almost translucent, and you could see their veinous blood through the skin. Interesting to hear about the silver connection!

There are probably all kinds of theories ... wonder which is correct?

[CarlaB]

The linked webpage showed what agryia looked like, and it is tragic, but both cases are not from colloidal silver. I would think that if there were any cases from colloidal silver, you'd be able to read about them pretty easily on the web.

[daffadilly]

I still miss the mint though. In fact, I think what will help me quit smoking is the ONLY thing I liked about cigarettes WAS the mint. Non-menthols gag me. I haven't had a cigarette since last night, and I barely inhaled all day yesterday because it was gagging me.

Good for you, I jsut read this in the paper this minute & thought I needed to share it with you. Also, how about getting yourself some mint plants, that stuff will grow anywhere, if you have a yard, be careful where you plant it, because it will spread like wildflower. I have some plants & love the stuff in my foods, & mint tea etc.

"Scientists learn how mint soothes skin, by Susan Brink, Los Angeles Times

Mint is great for sweet kisses or covering up that lunchtime martini, but as herbalists have long known, the menthol within its oils also soothes and cools the skin. Now scientists have discovered the basis for that property, known scientifically as cool-induced analgesia, and are working on new therapies for alleviating pain.

In a study published last week in the journal Current Biology, researchers from the University of Edinburgh reported that cooling mint oil compounds act through a newly discovered receptor found in some nerve cells.

The receptor, called TRPM8, is activated by the chemicals and stops pain messages from being sent to the brain.

Susan Fleetwood-Walker, a co-author of the study and a professor at the university, says that the finding could lead to new types of topical drugs."

[eKatherine]

The linked webpage showed what agryia looked like, and it is tragic, but both cases are not from colloidal silver. I would think that if there were any cases from colloidal silver, you'd be able to read about them pretty easily on the web.

If you woke up tomorrow and found yourself gray, would you want to publish your picture on the web?

[CarlaB]

If you woke up tomorrow and found yourself gray, would you want to publish your picture on the web?

If it would prevent others from buying the product that did it to me -- YES!! I would feel like I should get the word out! I have known many people who use colloidal silver, and have never heard of anyone turning gray from it. I know people turned gray from the old stuff. I agree that it would be best to test the product, and I don't know why it hasn't been done.

[eKatherine]

If it would prevent others from buying the product that did it to me -- YES!! I would feel like I should get the word out! I have known many people who use colloidal silver, and have never heard of anyone turning gray from it. I know people turned gray from the old stuff. I agree that it would be best to test the product, and I don't know why it hasn't been done.

I think you would be pretty darned embarrassed, especially when you consider all the unwanted attention it was getting you when you went out in public.

The internet marketers who make the claims know they don't need to spend the big bucks necessary to run a medical test, because they can sell it without any more evidence than they have. The medical establishment isn't going to test these preparations because there is no evidence they work, and ample evidence that silver is toxic.

Toxicity and Efficacy

=======================

“In 1999 the FDA issued a “final rule” establishing that: “All

over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver

ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not

generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. …Many

OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver

salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and

the FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that

supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts

for these disease conditions.”

Open Original Shared Link

The Australian government says:

“Following an investigation by the Therapeutic Goods Administration

(TGA), the CMEC recommended that the NDPSC be advised that there are

no current legitimate uses of colloidal silver and that the

Surveillance Section of the TGA be requested to investigate the

illegal availability of colloidal silver products because of concerns

about their significant toxicity. The reasons for the recommendation

were that:

· there is little evidence to support therapeutic claims made for

colloidal silver products;

· the risk to consumers of silver toxicity outweighs the value of

trying an unsubstantiated treatment, and bacterial resistance to

silver can occur; and

· efforts should be made to curb the illegal availability of colloidal

silver products, which is a significant public health issue.

Open Original Shared Link

The evidence is that whether a person gets argyria is solely related to their lifetime intake of silver in grams. However, some "colloidal silver" preparations in fact contain no silver at all.

Open Original Shared Link of a man who turned gray while taking colloidal silver for his arthritis.

[CarlaB]

I think you would be pretty darned embarrassed, especially when you consider all the unwanted attention it was getting you when you went out in public.

I am known for sacrificing my own comfort or vanity for a cause, and I'm sure there are others out there like me. Yea, it would be embarassing ... but I would do it. You would have to know me to believe me.

Here's what that article said about this man: He ingested approximately 16 ounces (~ 450 ml) of 450 ppm colloidal silver three times a day for 10 months. He reported improvement in his arthritis; however, he discontinued the treatment when his skin began to turn gray.

First of all, I wouldn't trust a home kit to get the silver to the small size claimed by the companies who sell the already made stuff. Secondly, 16 OZ. PER DAY!!!! For FIVE MONTHS!!!! 450PPM!!!!! The reputable brands (Source Naturals) I've used say no more than 10 days right on the label. And the dosage is two teaspoons per day! That's a far cry from 48 oz. per day. The thing is with silver, less is more, the ones in the store are 10 or 30 PPM.

I'm not trying to sell silver or convince anyone to use it. I'm just saying, it worked for me, and I was pleased with it's results. And, I've very much not gray. I can agree that it's marketed as a miracle drug, which it's not ... but it does have a use.

[Guest Doll]

sorry I have not read your bio, I never said sugar caused diabetes, I think you misread that, Is english your first language? I did refer at the end of a jest about a diabetic eating sugar, not the cause of the diabetes, the diabetics that I know cannot eat sugar, maybe the ones that you know can. even those comments were offhand & not to be taken in a serious manner. It seems to me that you only have a serious side. Are you being paid by a drug company or someone else to post on here? It seems like most of your posts are driven by your own needs and not in compassion or help to others.

You just do not seem very supportive to people on this board. And you also come across as very critical of others symptoms and feelings.

Most of the people from Canada post on the Delphi board

Yes. I am being paid by a drug company to say that people should not use a potentially dangerous unproven method (silver) to cure their unproven disease (candida).

And they also gave me Celiac to make me look legit, those B%^&*%$!

So much for me being serious

Yes, I am critical, but so is gfp. So are a lot of people here. It is because we are scientific and objective. Maybe science scares people here, but that doesn't mean I do not want to help people because I am scientific. I would rather have someone give me helpful and applicable advice than just be supportive and not get me any answers.

Many of our posters are in fact Canadians. I didn't know there was a difference between Canadian Celiacs and American ones.

This is how my sister's allergist explained it to me: when the body is having a histamine reaction, systems tend to shut down. This includes the appetite, which leads to weight loss. Also, the intestinal tract is a mucous membrane, so it oozes mucous when a histamine reaction happens. This causes diarrhea, which causes weight loss. The body needs energy, so it pulls fat from cells, which causes weight loss. Do you understand now how an allergy can cause weight loss?

Thank you. I knew allergies could cause GI (vomiting, diarrhea) issues, but I did not think they were sustained enough to cause weight loss.

[Guest Doll]

Actually, Doll does NOT strike me as being either unsupportive or critical.

She is doing what we are all doing on this board: exchanging ideas, experiences, and perspectives.

Unfortunately, Western medicine, naturopathic medicine, and chiropractic care share two traits: they all have some real cures to offer, and they all have quacks practicing them as well as gifted, skilled, and caring practitioners.

The first chiropractor I ever went to did absolutely nothing for me and convinced me that the whole field of chiropractic was a joke. The second (whom I went to unwillingly after my primary care provider (and MD) strongly recommended him after I severely injured my back) took away 90% of my pain in the first visit.

The first orthopedist I saw after being struck by an SUV and dislocating my shoulderrefused to order an MRI; he said he already knew what I had done, and that I could start physical therapy after a month in a sling. Turned out, my shoulder was really mangled--torn tendons, torn cartilage, separated A/C joint--not a good injury for a violinist. He then insisted that I needed surgery, but would not discuss details or answer questions. The second ortho I saw 4 months later scheduled an MRI, explained WHY he thought I needed surgery, discussed the option of not having surgery, and, when I saw that I was a bit shell-shocked, he set aside an appointment for me just to answer all my questions (believe me, I had many).

I have never been to a holistic/naturopathic doctor, but a friend of mine brought her daughter to one. Her daughter had been having recurrent ear infections after starting milk. Every MD she saw recommended constant low-dose antibiotics. The naturopath said, "Hmm, I'm not sure about this, but let's try pulling her off dairy products." The ear infections completely disappeared--except every couple of months when my friend would try dairy products again.

When my oldest was an infant, the pediatricians actually PRESCRIBED cold medicine whenever he had a cold. He wasn't even that uncomfortable, as long as I held him! We all know that cold medicines do absolutely nothing for a cold; we DON'T know the long-term risks of giving them to infants, any more than we know the long-term risks of giving infants 26 vaccines by the time they are 18 months old. We DO know the long-term risks of mercury exposure, but that didn't stop the pediatricians from injecting it into our infants in many of those vaccines.

But, while that certainly makes Western medicine look pretty bad, my OBGYN probably saved my oldest son's life (and probably mine as well) by inducing him 3 weeks early due to myriad complications, none of which were caused by Western medicine.

It's so very complicated; we can't afford to write off any of these branches of medicine, as they all have something to offer. Unfortunately, we can't afford to completely trust any of them, either.

Thank you for sticking up for me, and thank you for sharing your perspective and experience. I know people here have had bad experiences with allopathic/Western Medicine, but that doesn't mean all MD's are bad or that all alternative medicine is good. I don't ever mean to not be compassionate (In fact most of my posts ARE) , but I just think that many people try to self-diagnose and treat, and that is not always helpful and even dangerous. Just because I still have faith in science does NOT make me a bad or uncaring person.

I think it would be irresponsible for me to say that someone should try something that could be useless and even harmful to boot, especially without medical guidance.

Sorry, but I will never think self medicating with colloidal silver is healthy.

My mother first took me to a naturopathic doctor when I was six weeks old and had a sinus infection -- and I kept it for six weeks. He kept telling her to do saline rinses of my nasal passages and it would go away. Finally, my grandmother convinced her to bring me into Louisville to our family doctor -- who diagnosed me with every type of infection available for a three month old infant. I was VERY VERY sick.

As an adult, I decided to go to a naturopathic doctor -- she prescribed vitamins that I was to take 6 times per day . . . I ended up with lupus-like symptoms -- hot swollen joints which were completely immobile, etc. etc. She also prescribed colloidal silver for my ears . . it burned the living daylights out of them, and I noticed no particular improvement.

As for silver nitrate . . . that is used for cauterization, as well. Silver nitrate sticks are used to coagulate the blood to stop bleeding in a wound. It was also used when my son's nose would NOT stop bleeding after several hours during one particularly bad nosebleed. It is some strong stuff. Both my kids had it put in their eyes (they're 20 and 24) -- is it any wonder that their eyes were swollen closed for the pictures the next day?????

I was going to a doctor who was a very good combination of Eastern and Western medicine. Unfortunately, his practice policies got him into some ummmm......hot water, and I can't seem to locate him. I've switched to a traditional Western MD who recognizes that I do appreciate some of the Eastern traditions . . . so far, we haven't butted heads very much!

As a PT, we are supposed to (evidently by Doctrine -- just a joke) supposed to be HIGHLY against chiropractors. Phooey. I have met some of the BEST chiropractors . . . that's what they're TRAINED to do --manipulate the spine -- and they do it WELL. Conversely, I have met some of the WORST Physical Therapists -- actually graduated with a couple of 'em!! Each specialty has good and bad. Take what you can from the good ones, dismiss what you know is bologna from the bad ones, and find a happy medium.

But the colloidal silver? I really had a BAD experience with it . . . .

Thank you for posting this. There are good doctors and bad doctors. I am not against an MD who is also an ND, this is probably a good mix for many of the people on this board. I know there are good ND's, but for the most part, they are not able to treat the same scope of illness as an MD, or effectively. This is just my opinion. This can be harmful if they do not refer you to an MD if needed.

Well, I like you Doll. (And I'm not even Canadian, gasp!)

Thanks!

[Guest Doll]

being that I am part of the alternative health care field (I'm a massage therapist working with Chiropractors), I tend to lean toward the alternative remedies. I've used colloidial silver with no ill effects and am healthier the longer I stay away from conventional medical Dr.s... just my opinion. It is always amazing to me just how diametrically oposed to alternative cures some people seem to be, and Quackwatch is just one of those sites that I have no respect for. They think Chiropractic and massage are quack treatments and I have no place for that kind of thinking.

I think in anything, you have to listen to your own body and be your own best judge of what works for you.

I don't think Chiropractic and message therapy are "quack" treatments! They are very useful in treating orthopedic problems and injuries. I personally however don't think they should be able to promote themselves as being directly beneficial to say liver or heart disease patients (aside from stress relief) but that is my opinion. If they claim things like this, it may cause some of the skepticism from MD's.

I think of it as complimentary medicine.

[Guest Doll]

Thanks for the tips, Daffodilly:-) I read that you can add glycerin to to the baking soda and make a paste. I just picked some up at CVS for that purpose. Never thought about using it on my skin, but I guess it probably would work well. I still miss the mint though. In fact, I think what will help me quit smoking is the ONLY thing I liked about cigarettes WAS the mint. Non-menthols gag me. I haven't had a cigarette since last night, and I barely inhaled all day yesterday because it was gagging me. Sorry to hear about your mom. I know there are days I am just so hungry I try too many new foods at once, so I know how maybe she didn't *get* that she couldn't eat anything she wanted to. Some days I'm ready to grab a box of chocolate chip cookies dipped in wheat, gluten, soy, yeast, eggs, dairy, fish, nuts, seeds, corn...what did I forget?

I don't know, Katherine. I kind of agree with Nini. Why so much opposition against alternative from modern medicine? I think the government and media distort the truth when it comes to alternative medicine. They downplay its benefits and attribute it to something else or claim it can't be proven. Or they make a big stink if someone on any supplement dies of anything without investigating what other factors were involved. Seriously. This isn't my own idea, but if every kid who gets hit by a car is wearing tennis shoes, do we say that tennis shoes are dangerous? Of course not, but that is essentially what we have done in the cases of argyria, and I'm sure pharmaceuticals paid to get that website to show up early in the search results. I mean look how many people use it or know someone who uses it and swears by it. If I'm going to become a recluse, it'll be from losing gum tissue to one allergic reaction after another, along with infection...not argyria.

Most of us are not completely opposed to alternative medicine. We are just saying that it too can sometimes be dangerous, and people seem to forget that.

I am thankful for Western Medicine, for without it, many people would have died. The reason it evolved was because we found other, often more effective ways to treat the sick and stop people from dying. Naturopathic medicine CAN be a great compliment to Western Medicine, but it in the past did not spare many people from dying from diseases that can be easily or better treated by MD's today.

If I were diagnosed with breast cancer tomorrow, I would be happy to know I could have my tumor surgically removed by an MD as opposed to only taking herbal supplements from an ND. I think we should all be happy we have that choice.

In Japan, where you are often ostracized by your family if you develop Type 1 diabetes (the rarer non-preventable "severe" insulin requiring kind) I have read that the average lifespan for a Type 1 is often less than 5 years. Some families prefer to ration insulin just enough to keep them barely alive and rely on mostly "alternative herbs" as per family tradition instead. It is sad.

My point is that we should be thankful of what Western Medicine has done for us. You are able to live in a world free of polio and smallpox. You have a chance of survival after a severe car accident. You or your child do not have to run the risk of dying in childbirth...the list goes on and on.

Daffodilly, if you too carry the HLA DQ1 gene, you will be happy to know at least something good can come out of it! People with this HLA type seem to have better Melanoma survival rates.

Open Original Shared Link

[Guest Doll]

I think too many are operating on the assumption that doctors are able to cure better than nature. Doctors today treat symptoms. And it's been my experience that most MDs are like this. They treat one symptom and create a dozen other. It keeps both the drug companies and the doctors happy. Look how many diseases are linked to deficiencies in vitamins, minerals, or fatty acids. I think anyone who puts his faith in modern medicine is living life blindly. We did just fine 100 years ago with colloidal silver and other things that just *worked*. Why mess with nature?

And Doll, even Type I diabetes and breast cancer is linked to dietary problems. Wouldn't it be better to get rid of the cause of both rather than to symptom-treat one and create another disease further down the road?

I respect that you are opposed to Western Medicine. You feel that it failed you. And maybe that is true. We still cannot prevent or treat many illnesses. But it is possible nature cannot heal you either. Well, I HOPE it can, but just needed to prove a point!

Of course I want you to get well and feel better. Maybe this board will help you find a diet that helps. I am simply stating a possible explanation. Sometimes we cannot fight genetics, with any kind of medicine.

Many people on this board would have died 100 years ago if it were not for modern medicine. True, that is "nature's way" or survival of the fittest, but I think we should use it if we have it.

Nobody has conclusively linked Type 1 diabetes to "dietary problems" so I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean the leaky gut, we do not know the viral/bacterial/microbial/dietary triggers, and we cannot close the leaky gut either, so we are stuck with replacing the hormone we can no longer make. Or we die. Simple as that.

People tried all kinds of crazy diets to keep Type 1's alive pre-insulin. And guess what? They ALL died! And horrible deaths too!

There is lots of groundbreaking (Western) research going on that is working on stopping the autoimmune attack and allowing beta cells to regenerate/or beta cells will be able to transplanted without being subjected to being attacked again. I am excited!

Some people think there is a link between Type 1, casein and gluten, but studies never seem to pan this out and many get Type 1 despite being gluten-free/CF.

Anyway, doctors DO treat vitamin deficiencies. People with Pernicious Anemia (It was always fatal previously) need to get Vitamin B12 by injection by an MD because they cannot physiologically not absorb it.

I feel bad for you in that you have not been blessed with a good doctor. I do hope you are able to find some sort of relief through any means, whatever the cause of your illness.

You might be surprised that you may feel much better gluten-free, but it will not happen overnight!

And stay away from the cigarettes! That is one place we can ALL agree not to put your money!

I may not know the answer, but there IS hope out there for you.

[Guest nini]

I don't think Chiropractic and message therapy are "quack" treatments! They are very useful in treating orthopedic problems and injuries. I personally however don't think they should be able to promote themselves as being directly beneficial to say liver or heart disease patients (aside from stress relief) but that is my opinion. If they claim things like this, it may cause some of the skepticism from MD's.

I think of it as complimentary medicine.

sure it's complimentary medicine IF Western medicine is behaving responsibly. Which most of the time they are not. Chiropractic and massage does not claim to CURE anything, what it does claim is to help restore the body to a state of "homeostasis" or balance so that the body can in it's infinite innate wisdom, heal itself. Chiropractic and massage are great adjunt therapies in conjunction with a responsible naturopath or even a responsible MD that is open to the alternatives. The chiropractors office that I'm now working out of, has a medical Dr. in the office space right next door that they refer to and he refers back to them. It's a win win situation when you get the best of both worlds. I'm not saying to shun western medicine completely, but if your Dr. isn't behaving responsibly, than consider the alternatives! LOL (pun intended)

[plantime]

Thank you. I knew allergies could cause GI (vomiting, diarrhea) issues, but I did not think they were sustained enough to cause weight loss.

Yes, some reactions do go on for long periods of time. I am currently having a bad reaction to ragweed pollen, and it will continue from now until the first hard frost. I am using everything the doctor gave me for it, and still can't breathe well enough to eat very much. The diarrhea has let up, though, so I don't feel quite so miserable. If this reaction were to something I was eating, it would probably go on longer, at least for two weeks after I stop eating the offending food. Allergies are miserable!

[utdan]

sure it's complimentary medicine IF Western medicine is behaving responsibly. Which most of the time they are not. Chiropractic and massage does not claim to CURE anything, what it does claim is to help restore the body to a state of "homeostasis" or balance so that the body can in it's infinite innate wisdom, heal itself. Chiropractic and massage are great adjunt therapies in conjunction with a responsible naturopath or even a responsible MD that is open to the alternatives. The chiropractors office that I'm now working out of, has a medical Dr. in the office space right next door that they refer to and he refers back to them. It's a win win situation when you get the best of both worlds. I'm not saying to shun western medicine completely, but if your Dr. isn't behaving responsibly, than consider the alternatives! LOL (pun intended)

I totally agree. Western Medicine is great WHEN it acts responsibly. My father was a chiropractor for about 37 years and got to hear about his patients--incredible: one patient's bowel wasn't functioning so she had to carry around a colostomy bag (is that the word?) which is surgically hooked up and hangs outside the body, which is ok because that was the best western medicine had to offer. Within 1-3 treatments from my dad her bowels were working!!!! This was about 15 years ago and so I don't remember everything but that was the gist of what happened.

There's many examples where people have been really put through the ringer and then came to my dad and the horrific medical doctor's treatments/surgeries were discovered to be entirely unneeded.

I heard a med-student talk about doctors getting vacations and stuff from drug companies if they prescribe their product a certain number of times per month. He said his father was a family practitioner and didn't play that game with the pharma companyies but he said he himself would have no problem taking gifts and vacations by prescribing drugs. Yeah, not all MD's think the same.

After saying that I have to praise the western medicine for the great advances. I'm so glad they are there when and if I need them. Great for emergency treatment. But I'm reluctant to rely on drugs unless it is necessary. On the other hand, I'm equally reluctant to trust so-called miracle cures as plenty of people have been hurt from those as well. Like Nini said, they can work great together.

Does anyone know the average salary +bonuses of a pharmaceutical rep?

[shayesmom]

Ooh boy....please tell me you are not seeing a "naturopathic doctor" who is giving you ideas...

First of all, if you truly have an egg allergy, you may get hives, trouble breathing, etc. You will NOT get weight loss from an egg allergy.

You did mention you have anti-muscle antibodies/autoimmune muscle disease, am I right? What is being done for this? This can explain why you feel so bad. It's not necessarly gluten, although cutting it out won't hurt, it also may not help.

Please read the article below on colloidal silver, and PLEASE do not use this!!!

Open Original Shared Link

Stephen Barrett, is about the LAST person I would refer to for honest health information. This is one of the more amusing short articles about him. In fairness, I've quoted directly from an alternative site he has attacked repeatedly. I've read other news articles of how he let his PSYCHIATRIC M.D. license expire (that doesn't really qualify him as an M.D. as far as treating physically sick people, does it?) and filing law suits against alternative doctors is about all he does now. That may come to an end soon.

Colloidal silver aside, it's not just the alts who can be "quacks". Everything in moderation and always with a hefty dose of common sense. Research everything that you can and then make an informed decision.

Quackbuster Stephen Barrett:

"Not an Expert," Declares Judge!

Stephen Barrett, the Wizard of Odds, played his odds and lost. He just hasn't had a very good year.

Stephen Barrett has attacked some of the most successful alternative therapies in the world. He has issued threats and initiated lawsuits, and until last year, got away with all of it. Then, his world began to crumble.

Barrett filed a lawsuit against King Bio Pharmaceuticals, makers of homeopathics. Now, science has already established the value of homeopathy, but Barrett, ignoring science while pandering to the pharmaceutical industry, just had to do something. The result? Here is an excerpt from the judge's decision:

As for his credential as an expert on FDA regulation of homeopathic drugs, the Court finds that Dr. Barrett lacks sufficient qualifications in this area. Expertise in FDA regulation suggests a knowledge of how the agency enforces federal statutes and the agency's own regulations. Dr. Barrett's purported legal and regulatory knowledge is not apparent. He is not a lawyer, although he claims he attended several semesters of correspondence law school. While Dr. Barrett appears to have had several past conversations with FDA representatives, these appear to have been sporadic, mainly at his own instigation, and principally for the purpose of gathering information for his various articles and Internet web-sites. He has never testified before any governmental panel or agency on issues relating to FDA regulation of drugs. Presumably his professional continuing education experiences are outdated given that he has not had a current medical licence [sic] in over seven years. For these reasons, there is no sound basis on which to consider Dr. Barrett qualified as an expert on the issues he was offered to address. Moreover, there was no real focus to his testimony with respect to any of the issues in this case associated with Defendants' products.

C. Credibility of Plaintiff's experts

Furthermore, the Court finds that both Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett are biased heavily in favor of the Plaintiff and thus the weight to be accorded their testimony is slight in any event. Both are long-time board members of the Plaintiff; Dr. Barrett has served as its Chairman. Both participated in an application to the U.S. FDA during the early 1990s designed to restrict the sale of most homeopathic drugs. Dr. Sampson's university course presents what is effectively a one-sided, critical view of alternative medicine. Dr. Barrett's heavy activities in lecturing and writing about alternative medicine similarly are focused on the eradication of the practices about which he opines. Both witnesses' fees, as Dr. Barrett testified, are paid from a fund established by Plaintiff NCAHF from the proceeds of suits such as the case at bar. Based on this fact alone, the Court may infer that Dr. Barrett and Sampson are more likely to receive fees for testifying on behalf of NCAHF in future cases if the Plaintiff prevails in the instant action and thereby wins funds to enrich the litigation fund described by Dr. Barrett. It is apparent, therefore, that both men have a direct, personal financial interest in the outcome of this litigation. Based on all of these factors, Dr. Sampson and Dr. Barrett can be described as zealous advocates of the Plaintiff's position, and therefore not neutral or dispassionate witnesses or experts. In light of these affiliations and their orientation, it can fairly be said that Drs. Barrett and Sampson are themselves the client, and therefore their testimony should be accorded little, if any, credibility on that basis as well.

This was just one loss in court. The story gets better!

Some of you know how we here at the Wellness Directory of Minnesota have taken an stance against fluoridation. The stuff is just not what the American Dental Association has been preaching. I do not drink the stuff and I have just three fluoride treatments a year…and then detox the heck out of myself.

Well, Darlene Sherrell ( Open Original Shared Link ) has a web site dedicated to fighting Fluoride Poisoning. She has been under attack by Stephen Barrett and his ilk for some time. She fought back and attacked Barrette. Barrett filed a libel lawsuit against her. He's threatened many people with defamation of character lawsuits (including yours truly) but this was the first time it has gotten to court.

Here is the background, from the Health Freedom Law web site (www.healthfreedomlaw.com):

In the summer of 1998, Darlene Sherrell, challenged Barrett to come forward to name a study demonstrating the safety of current fluoride levels in drinking water and the effect excessive daily intake of fluoride as a possible cause to chronic fluoride poisoning. At the time, in response to Sherrell's challenge Barrett was "careful to state that he is and was aware of hundreds of studies pertaining to the safety of fluoridation of drinking water..." However, "...He did not testify that any study demonstrates the safety of current fluoridation levels..." Barrett had rebuked Sherrell's continuous challenges and sent a message to her stating that she (Sherrell) was "delusional."

Long story short, case was dismissed. Barrett who claims to be backed by the FDA, FTC, DHHS, NCI, HIH, AMA, and ADA showed up with one witness and his own lame testimony. Barrett claimed to have hundreds of studies, but couldn't produce one.

Next, Barrett attacked that famous quack, Dr Hulda Clark who says she can cure all diseases. Now, personally, I don't believe anyone can cure all diseases. There is something very mystical about healing. And Dr Hulda is probably a bit whacko. But, I still love her. She has some darn good ideas and science is beginning to prove her out. Well, Barrett lost his case against her too!

Now, this isn't over yet, because there are laws against filing frivolous lawsuits and Barrett is just beginning to feel the backlash of his programmed stupidity. He's been slapped left and right with lawsuits for filing frivolous lawsuits, and it is estimated that he now owes somewhere close to half a million dollars.

After years of threatening everyone and everything with lawsuits, Barrett is on the losing end of every single one of them. This being the case, he dropped his lawsuit against Dr Joseph Mercola, who runs one of the best alternative medicine web sites in the world (and much of what we find and pass on to you comes from the good doctor).

So, to all those wonderful organizations who give credence to the garbage published at Quackwatch (and their ilk) and to the URAC (www.urac.org) that certifies Medically Sound Web Sites (Barrett's web site is certified by URAC!), we say, your time is running out. Barrett is no expert, he has no science to back up his claims, and his web site has enough BS to fertilize all the farms in Iowa, Minnesota, and Nebraska.

Medicine as we know it, is on the brink of destruction. Healing is where the heart is. The future of Medicine is going to be based upon what Edison and Socrates tried to tell us long ago: "We are what we eat" along with what ancient texts, including the Bible, have told us for centuries: Our Creator (Nature) has supplied us with all the medicines we will ever need. Now, if we can stop the corruption of our environment by monied interests, heck, Paradise isn't too far off.

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[eKatherine]

Stephen Barrett, is about the LAST person I would refer to for honest health information. This is one of the more amusing short articles about him. In fairness, I've quoted directly from an alternative site he has attacked repeatedly. I've read other news articles of how he let his PSYCHIATRIC M.D. license expire (that doesn't really qualify him as an M.D. as far as treating physically sick people, does it?)

If he let his license expire, then he's not able to be a practicing doctor anymore, but he still has the same doctorate in medicine that every other doctor does. The only difference is what they specialized in for their residency. So the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is that the psychiatrist is a medical doctor and can prescribe drugs.

[shayesmom]

If he let his license expire, then he's not able to be a practicing doctor anymore, but he still has the same doctorate in medicine that every other doctor does. The only difference is what they specialized in for their residency. So the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is that the psychiatrist is a medical doctor and can prescribe drugs.

All kidding aside, if it were my decision (as to taking colloidal silver), I would research both the allopathic and alternative sites out there and then seek treatment from someone who has a background in both as well. Two heads are always better than one. I sought out a homeopathic MD with my dd and the results were exceptional compared to the 3 pedis and 1 GI we saw. It's nearly been a full year since her "treatment". All is well and we've only been to the pedi for a well-child check-up. I feel like we've finally found some balance.

As for Barrett, oh boy. A bit too conservative and biased for me. JMO. But to be fair, there is less controversial information on him available at Open Original Shared Link. Or, at least it's not so scathing and based in opinion (which he has no qualms administering on his own sites so I didn't exercise caution here).

Barrett's license expired back in 1993. I'm still unsure how he believes he is "qualified" to testify on so many nutriceuticals and alternative therapies. But I DO understand the concept of clinical studies. lol!! And when we went down the cancer road with my father, I ALWAYS double-checked all prescribed botanicals and herbals with Sloan Kettering's information: Open Original Shared Link. A bit of balance goes a long way. If you're going to go off of the beaten path....better pack a lunch and a change of clothes....just in case.

My father's oncologist couldn't tell us anything about supplements or any herbals that could/would react with the particular chemotherapy agent she was using....she just said "Don't do that!". She also had said that he was "terminal and there is no hope". "He most likely won't make it a month". She was shocked at how well he did and called another colleague about it (whom we happened to know). My father died 4.5 months later, from pneumonia developed after his last chemo treatment. Two weeks prior, he was out cutting down trees with a chainsaw and had seen over 45% reduction in tumor burden.

We've had similar conversations with all the MDs we've seen with dd as well (except for the homeopath who offered us an omega supplement and suggested probiotics at least 7 days per month or whenever we had a food exposure). No one can tell you anything beyond Centrum Silver, Ensure, Prosure and Pediasure. Friends have reported similar situations. Other than the homeopath, I have yet to hear of or personally receive any kind of supplement, herbal, botanical, mineral, vitamin information from any MD. The best answer, "I don't know". The worst, "Don't talk to me about that supplement crap!". What is a person to do?

I understand that caution needs to be exercised when using something "new". However, there comes a point in time where a patient NEEDS to do SOMETHING. We all have a different threshold there I suppose. But many on this site have had to figure things out for themselves and have done a pretty good job of it so far. Even going gluten-free is "too extreme" in the eyes of many medical professionals. At some point, it boils down to the individual's choice. The rest of us can just offer what we know and hope that all will turn out well.

[corinne]

First a little background. I'm a professor of environmental chemistry. I specialize in how microbes interact with metals such as arsenic and mercury.

Please do NOT try the silver treatment. This is one of the few treatments that can have serious consequences. Silver ions can deposit as silver oxide underneath the skin. This will turn the skin somewhere between grey and blue depending on the amount deposited. There is no way to remove the silver (except for extremely aggressive and painful dermabrasion). The amount of silver you can ingest before having an effect on the skin color will vary from person to person and the silver in your system can continue to deposit and darken the skin long after you quit taking the medication. You have no way of knowing if you are the person that easily absorbs silver.

[eKatherine]

This is just one problem with Western Medicine. We are all probably walking around with some sort of infectious disease like lyme that Western Medicine discounts because we didn't get the classic bull's eye rash, and the Elisa test was negative. Western Medicine is seriously flawed when you consider how many people on here and on the Lyme forum were diagnosed with Celiac's or MS when what they really have is late stage lyme.

No, actually the one problem with Western medicine is that doctors don't keep up with the research and end up being so misinformed as to be useless, unless you happen to have a popular disease.

[gfp]

I respect that you are opposed to Western Medicine. You feel that it failed you. And maybe that is true. We still cannot prevent or treat many illnesses. But it is possible nature cannot heal you either. Well, I HOPE it can, but just needed to prove a point!

Of course I want you to get well and feel better. Maybe this board will help you find a diet that helps. I am simply stating a possible explanation. Sometimes we cannot fight genetics, with any kind of medicine.

Many people on this board would have died 100 years ago if it were not for modern medicine. True, that is "nature's way" or survival of the fittest, but I think we should use it if we have it.

QUOTE(tailz @ Sep 5 2006, 05:15 AM) *

This is just one problem with Western Medicine. We are all probably walking around with some sort of infectious disease like lyme that Western Medicine discounts because we didn't get the classic bull's eye rash, and the Elisa test was negative. Western Medicine is seriously flawed when you consider how many people on here and on the Lyme forum were diagnosed with Celiac's or MS when what they really have is late stage lyme.

No, actually the one problem with Western medicine is that doctors don't keep up with the research and end up being so misinformed as to be useless, unless you happen to have a popular disease.

Honestly I think its a mix of everything....

Firstly as eKatherine pointed out a week or so ago 90% of diseases treated by Dr's actually go away all by themselves.

Sometimes this treatment might accelerate healing sometimes it just relieves symptoms...

For instance taking vitamin C for a common cold ...

In the UK the second most common ailment for lost work is lower back problems ....

90% of the time its treated with anti-imflammatories ... but mostly posture and things are ignored, perhaps largely because the Dr. knows most people won't do anything that doesn't involve swallowing a pill!

However Dr's are equally guitly in many cases of just giving out pills.

broad spectrum antibiotics are used fairly indiscriminatly for instance that then lead to other problems.

In many cases I think the Dr's are just treating symptoms of lifestyle and their own medicine.

and equally most do not keep up with current research...mostly they are kept informed by drug companies selling product just like a car dealer selling cars. They are spoon fed the product (and in many cases benefit financially from prescribing it) .... all sorts of wonder products like thalydomide and in the same era formula milk enriched with gluten. ADHD take ritalin, then treat the side effects.... gastric ulcer take a acid inhibitor ...

See. That's the ONLY thing Western Medicine has on Eastern. We developed vaccines (which cause cancer). And if I need surgery or I'm giving birth, I have Western Medicine throwing a bunch of scientific terms around and making something *natural* like childbirth feel like a freak show. How can you say Western is better? If we would follow the Bible, we wouldn't need Western medicine. I guarantee smallpox and polio got their beginnings in something man did. I would think it'd be easier to prevent breast cancer than it would be to cure it. And we haven't cured it by any means.

Erm they also developed a vaccine for cervical cancer that is 75% efficent in saving lives.

If we lived as they did in blblical times then the average life expectancy would be 25-30 as it was then.

When we look at bones and preserved natural mummies of the biblical era we see that very rarely did anyone outside Roman or Hellenistic culture reach 30... wheras by the time of Christ 80 was not an uncommon age in Roman citizens and this can be tested by dating their remains.

And it is equally a fact that there was no disease or petulance until Promethiius stole fire and the King of the Gods gave Pandora a box. This is absolute FACT since it is written in many Hellenistic scriptures which are avery bit as true as the bible.

Additionally many of the potent life saving drugs have actually been derived from shellfish so if we lived by the bible we wouoldn't be able to eat them... since the bible specifically forbids them and nowhere does it say we can eat them under the new covenant.