Black Toes

taz sharratt · September 6, 2006

i enjoy my running and have really built up my endurance, the last month or so my 2 big toes have been hurting and when i looked at them properly i noticed i had bruised my right big toe and both the nail lokked kinda manky, its now got worse and both toe nails are manky and is almost lifting off my toe, ive also got a blood blister on the top of my toe and the nail has changed colour ( sorry for the graphics). im dairy intolerant too so i was wondering if this was an early sign of a major calcium issue or whether it was more to do with a running injury :blink: any celiac runners out there who have experianced this kind of thing :unsure:

Michi8 · September 6, 2006

I don't know if it's related to calcium. I have, however, read that psoriasis (an auto-immune condition) can affect the nails. There is information on the National Psoriasis Foundation website: Open Original Shared Link.

Michelle

nikki-uk · September 7, 2006

May sound silly,but do you keep your toe nails short enough?

I find (especially during the 'flip flop' months where I've let my toenails grow a tad longer than norm)that when I go to the gym,my toes start to hurt in a trainer after running.

It feels like the big toenails are starting to 'lift'.

Another thought is fungal infection which can also lift the nail off the nail bed

eKatherine · September 7, 2006

I used to run, and I recall that the most common suggestion given was larger shoes.

gfp · September 7, 2006

May sound silly,but do you keep your toe nails short enough?

I find (especially during the 'flip flop' months where I've let my toenails grow a tad longer than norm)that when I go to the gym,my toes start to hurt in a trainer after running.

It feels like the big toenails are starting to 'lift'.

Another thought is fungal infection which can also lift the nail off the nail bed

This sounds like #1.... or just that you are not use to it. When I was on vacation I was walking 8-10 hrs a day in very comfy sandals I have worn for years but I got a new blister everyday.

I used to run, and I recall that the most common suggestion given was larger shoes.

That too... larger or better fitting. Often different brands have significant differences especially on the bridge support and the position of the bridge support can push your toes up and forwards.

September 7, 2006

I had this happen once from ill fitting shoes. You need better fitting shoes and make sure toenails are trimmed

tiredofdoctors · September 8, 2006

I agree with everything posted! Keeping toenails trimmed is actually pretty important for serious runners. But, MORE IMPORTANTLY -- go to a shoe store that specializes in fitting people for running shoes. It sounds like you have what's commonly referred to (at least here) as "runner's toe" . . . it's from ill-fitting shoes. We have two shoe stores here that specifically fit you for the size, shape and type for the activity that you are pursuing.

One store, oddly, consistently fits shoes too small -- but then again the owner is a runner, likes his shoes short, and had his toenails removed on his big toes so that he wouldn't get exactly what you have! The other store, however, is owned by a woman whose father is a podiatrist . . . she is OBSESSIVE about the exact right shoe . . . I have been in there and had to try on 10-12 pair of shoes because she "just didn't like the fit" of the shoes! Each time I've been in there, though, I've come out with the best pair of shoes for what I need. Now that I'm in a wheelchair, and particularly given the way that I walk when I'm NOT, I am so thankful for her knowledge.

Each successive year, a particular "name" of a shoe, or a model may not have the same fit, last or qualities of the previous years. It's important that you get someone who knows what's going on with each type. Also, if you look for a store that is something like a "premium New Balance Dealer" (not necessarily a New Balance store), they are usually the type of store of which I'm speaking. In order to carry the higher-end, more responsive, more supportive shoes, New Balance mandates that they are these types of stores.

Good luck . . . and don't be surprised if you lose those toenails . . . if they're not damaged far back at the matrix, they'll grow back in. If they start separating from the nail bed and DON'T grow back in correctly, consult a podiatrist ASAP.

corinne · September 8, 2006

It's a common running/hiking/skiing injury. As has been said, make sure your toenails are short enough - it's almost impossible to cut them too short as a runner. Going downhill can definitely cause it. I get it almost everytime I hike downhill more than 2000 vertical feet from toes hitting the front of my boots.

Don't worry about losing your toenails. They usually grow back in fine. Just make sure that you keep the nail as clean as possible, trim off bits that will catch on socks and keep in an eye out to make sure that you're not getting a fungal infection in the nail bed.

Bloodblisters under the nail are very painful. If you have the guts to do it (it's not nearly as bad as it seems) heat up a nail or needle to red hot and push it through the nail (the nail melts and it goes through easily) until you get to the bloodblister so it can drain. It's completely painless to do (although make sure you go slow enough not to hit the nail bed) and it's a huge relief once the blood drains out from under the nail and will often save the nail.

gfp · September 8, 2006

I agree with everything posted! Keeping toenails trimmed is actually pretty important for serious runners. But, MORE IMPORTANTLY -- go to a shoe store that specializes in fitting people for running shoes. It sounds like you have what's commonly referred to (at least here) as "runner's toe" . . . it's from ill-fitting shoes. We have two shoe stores here that specifically fit you for the size, shape and type for the activity that you are pursuing.

One store, oddly, consistently fits shoes too small -- but then again the owner is a runner, likes his shoes short, and had his toenails removed on his big toes so that he wouldn't get exactly what you have! The other store, however, is owned by a woman whose father is a podiatrist . . . she is OBSESSIVE about the exact right shoe . . . I have been in there and had to try on 10-12 pair of shoes because she "just didn't like the fit" of the shoes! Each time I've been in there, though, I've come out with the best pair of shoes for what I need. Now that I'm in a wheelchair, and particularly given the way that I walk when I'm NOT, I am so thankful for her knowledge.

Each successive year, a particular "name" of a shoe, or a model may not have the same fit, last or qualities of the previous years. It's important that you get someone who knows what's going on with each type. Also, if you look for a store that is something like a "premium New Balance Dealer" (not necessarily a New Balance store), they are usually the type of store of which I'm speaking. In order to carry the higher-end, more responsive, more supportive shoes, New Balance mandates that they are these types of stores.

Good luck . . . and don't be surprised if you lose those toenails . . . if they're not damaged far back at the matrix, they'll grow back in. If they start separating from the nail bed and DON'T grow back in correctly, consult a podiatrist ASAP.

Yep buying running shoes is a crap shoot.

I agree with everything here although I have found that out of the real running shoes some makes are consistently closer to the shape of your foot. Obviously decent makes like NB also come in width fittings as well.

I have a very high arch which doesn't help so if I buy the wrong shoe the "comfortable" size on my arch is often too large so I slip and end up with my toes taking the beating.

However you can also buy inserts which modify the shoeliner. (the sponge part that comes out in decent shoes) ... this might help out for a few bucks if you have already invested in expensive shoes.

Really severe cases you can even get custom made sorbothane (sp) inserts which replace the ones in the shoe... These are expensive and you need to see a specialist to get them because they are made for your feet...

However if you do they are transferable from running shoes to tennis shoes etc.

Im just really mentioning this if you have already invested in good running shoes.

A really good running shop will be able to help.... it doesn't need to be the one where you bought them and for people on a budget a good trick is to get fitted in an expensive place and buy exactly the same shoe somewhere cheaper.

If you can afford it then a second different pair of shoes is nice... and alternate the shoes..... in reality its not more expensive since they will last twice as long... if you live in a rainy/muddy place probably more than twice as long...if you take care and wash them off after and let them dry naturally. Either way if you run regularly its nice putting on dry shoes, even if you are going out to run in the rain!

tiredofdoctors · September 9, 2006

Yep buying running shoes is a crap shoot.
I agree with everything here although I have found that out of the real running shoes some makes are consistently closer to the shape of your foot. Obviously decent makes like NB also come in width fittings as well.

I have a very high arch which doesn't help so if I buy the wrong shoe the "comfortable" size on my arch is often too large so I slip and end up with my toes taking the beating.

However you can also buy inserts which modify the shoeliner. (the sponge part that comes out in decent shoes) ... this might help out for a few bucks if you have already invested in expensive shoes.
Really severe cases you can even get custom made sorbothane (sp) inserts which replace the ones in the shoe... These are expensive and you need to see a specialist to get them because they are made for your feet...

However if you do they are transferable from running shoes to tennis shoes etc.

Im just really mentioning this if you have already invested in good running shoes.
A really good running shop will be able to help.... it doesn't need to be the one where you bought them and for people on a budget a good trick is to get fitted in an expensive place and buy exactly the same shoe somewhere cheaper.

If you can afford it then a second different pair of shoes is nice... and alternate the shoes..... in reality its not more expensive since they will last twice as long... if you live in a rainy/muddy place probably more than twice as long...if you take care and wash them off after and let them dry naturally. Either way if you run regularly its nice putting on dry shoes, even if you are going out to run in the rain!

Good point . . . . forgot to mention the inserts. If you do have a high arch, particularly if it collapses, you'll need an insert such as a Spenco Cross Training insert or Power Steps. There is one out there . . . can't think of it's name, but it's black and says it's mold-able to your foot --- it's expensive, flattens out in no time and is NOT worth the money. Power Steps (if you need much more support) are the best way to go.

If you're going to get two pair of shoes and alternate (which is the best way to do that . . . they last much longer), it may be best to get two of the same type . . . your body has to adjust each time you change the dynamics of the shoe. You get about 500 hours per pair of shoes . . .

Also, when you clean your shoes, don't put them in the washer -- often times the heel counter of the shoe (the back portion which holds your heel firmly) is very firm cardboard . . . if you put it in the machine, you've washed away most of what you paid the high price for!!

Thanks for adding what I missed, GFP -- you're right on target!!

gfp · September 9, 2006

Good point . . . . forgot to mention the inserts. If you do have a high arch, particularly if it collapses, you'll need an insert such as a Spenco Cross Training insert or Power Steps. There is one out there . . . can't think of it's name, but it's black and says it's mold-able to your foot --- it's expensive, flattens out in no time and is NOT worth the money. Power Steps (if you need much more support) are the best way to go.

If you're going to get two pair of shoes and alternate (which is the best way to do that . . . they last much longer), it may be best to get two of the same type . . . your body has to adjust each time you change the dynamics of the shoe. You get about 500 hours per pair of shoes . . .

Also, when you clean your shoes, don't put them in the washer -- often times the heel counter of the shoe (the back portion which holds your heel firmly) is very firm cardboard . . . if you put it in the machine, you've washed away most of what you paid the high price for!!

Thanks for adding what I missed, GFP -- you're right on target!!

Yeah the only thing I'd say though is unless the shoes are a perfect fit I tend to find that having two slightly different pairs helps because they tend to always rub somewhere.....

When i was younger and more foolish I used to do lots of types of running including fell running. Obviously the shoes are very different and specialised but when i was doing a lot of cross country (I used to do at least 20km a day just to get to school and back and often much longer when I was actually running for pleasure/training )

Anyway, I used to sometimes just switch shoes over... sometimes because they were wet but also because one pair would be rubbing in a specific area.

However what used to drive me nuts was manufacturers keep changing the damned shoes. i had pairs of runing shoes I was deeply attached to.... and when their time came I wanted another pair you would find they were discontinued and some half serious half street shoe had replaced them!

Matilda · September 9, 2006

..

September 9, 2006

I've had problems with ingrown toenails in both my big toes ever since my experience of almost losing them... the blood blisters were NASTY... in fact I had an ingrown toenail that WOKE ME UP at 4:30 this morning... man it hurt so bad, I had to dig it out just so I could get some sleep...

taz sharratt · September 29, 2006

ive now lost both toe nails, they are officially dead. there still there but habging on by a limb which i glad as i need the protection for my running. i paint them really loud colours so no one can see how bad they are

EdReagan · November 7, 2006

i enjoy my running and have really built up my endurance, the last month or so my 2 big toes have been hurting and when i looked at them properly i noticed i had bruised my right big toe and both the nail lokked kinda manky, its now got worse and both toe nails are manky and is almost lifting off my toe, ive also got a blood blister on the top of my toe and the nail has changed colour ( sorry for the graphics). im dairy intolerant too so i was wondering if this was an early sign of a major calcium issue or whether it was more to do with a running injury any celiac runners out there who have experianced this kind of thing

Hi. This has nothing to do with Celiac it has evetyhting to do with your shoes. I've been running for 13 years, very competitivly, and have delt with this for all my years as have many of my team mates. I was recently diagnosed celiac and had no symptoms until March 2006, but have had many toenails fall off. The casue id the toe rubbing agaist the shoe, ususally on distnace runs whis tight shoes, and a blister forms under the nail. Eventually it turns black and then falls off (or you can pull it off) then it grows back.

OI wouldn't worry about it although it's not that pretty. No sandals for a while.

Eddie