Temperature Chart

[Judyin Philly]

wow so much info I don't know where to begin so am going to print the posts and read in the am when i can more clear headed.

Ursula..glad your gettting some answers.

Gail, if your alergic to iodine. (that's what's in shell fish like shrimp right? can't do the test on arm i would guess. They don't us iodine for surgeries etc.

will keep up with this thread for sure.

nite

judy

[tiffjake]

Tiffany, Have you had a 2nd opinion re this. Or a 3rd or a 4th ? There are not many Drs good at dx Thyroid and not many that believe Broda Barnes style. But 1000s of people have cured themselves by finding a Dr that uses traditional methods. Hate for you to feel sick for next 20 years all 'cos you believed in one Dr.

Well I had three different docs run a total of 6 thyroid tests over the last year. One look severely hypo, so they ran the others (the first one was the only "off" one).

Should I go to a FOURTH doc for more tests???? Feels like pushing it to me.....I had the radiation test done on my thyroid, and I had a small node on the right side that was cold. But I was told that it was "no big deal" and not to worry about that, "it was within normal parameters" kinda talk.

Tiffany, if your temps are below 97.5 and you were taking NFP classes from me, I would be talking to you about whether you feel fatigued, whether you use iodized salt, etc. to try to figure out if low thyroid is causing it. I found that most people felt better when their pre-shift temps were above 97.5. Google Dr. Broda Barnes and you'll see the info I'm referring to. Dr. Barnes pioneered research on basal temps being a more accurate measure of thyroid than blood tests. Be sure your luteal phase is adequate, too.

BTW, Dr. Barnes said 97.8 for a low temp, but the nutritionist at CCL thought 97.6 was more accurate, and I didn't usually mention anything unless it was 97.5 or below.

Hm...my basal temps have NEVER reached 97.8! This morning was 96.18. And that is not the lowest. And I haven't had a luteal phase.....either I am not ovulating, or I am not building a uterine lining (the ob/gyn didn't know either, and just wanted to throw me on clomid, and I declined), but no Menses for 58 days now (at least, that is how long I have been charting).

I will look this stuff up, but tell me, how many docs do you go to before you give up? I am at the "give up" part now....at least when it comes to cycles and babies....

Sorry, I was in a touchy mood last night, after a very stressful weekend. I felt offended last night, but reading your post today, I see no problem with it. I should make it a policy of leaving for a few hours (or sleep first) when I feel like giving a snappy answer, and the next day I might see things differently.

Carla is right, you may want to look into low thyroid (which wouldn't necessarily show up in the regular tests).

I understand. Glad the air is clear now!

And I thought that I did (or, rather, my doctors did) look into the low thyroid thing......maybe they need to look YET AGAIN?????

[georgie]

Tiffany, I know its unbelievable bad luck but keep trying. Sounds like you have Hashis and that causes your blood tests to go up and down and can be confusing to a Dr that hasn't done his homework. With Hashis you need blood tests for Antibodies. And even then 10% of people don't show the antibodies. The Antibodies will kill your Thyroid over time - that's what all those nodules and swelling mean. Not sure where you live. You need a Dr that also practises natural healing. When you ring - ask if he prescribes Armour and tests for adrenal fatigue. Sometimes the chemists know which Drs are prescribing Armour - you could ask around. I went 25 years before I found a good Dr - don't give up ! I was so ill all those years and the Drs I was seeing kept saying my Thyroid was normal. But ...they didn't do the right tests ... My TSH was normal - but doesn't mean a thing. When they said your nodule was 'within normal etc' they mean its not cancerous. But it is NOT normal to have a nodule. You will keep getting more and more nodules until you Thyroid dies and then you will be really ill.

Armour suppresses the antibody attack. Prevents more nodules. And gives you back your life.

[georgie]

Tiffany, Get copies of your tests. The tests should have been TSH, Free T4, Free T3, and 2 types of Antibodies.Get your results in print. Also get Ferritin, Iron and B12 checked. Read stopthethyroidmadness for more info. If you get a bit confused by all the info - post a question to their forums. Janie and the team have helped 1000s over the years regain their lives. Low temp is a MAJOR symptom and no Dr should ignore that.

And I thought that I did (or, rather, my doctors did) look into the low thyroid thing......maybe they need to look YET AGAIN?????

[tiffjake]

Tiffany, Get copies of your tests. The tests should have been TSH, Free T4, Free T3, and 2 types of Antibodies.Get your results in print. Also get Ferritin, Iron and B12 checked. Read stopthethyroidmadness for more info. If you get a bit confused by all the info - post a question to their forums. Janie and the team have helped 1000s over the years regain their lives. Low temp is a MAJOR symptom and no Dr should ignore that.

I have all of my test copies (I keep copies of all of that stuff) and I went back through it after reading everyone's responses. I have low "ALT" on EVERY test. I looked that up online and it is liver function. NO ONE EVER MENTIONED THAT!

I will be calling an ednocronoligist tomorrow. Thanks everyone. (Thanks georgie too, for your abundance of info!)

(BTW-I have pernicious anemia-chronic low B12, and I used to take shots, and now I do the sublingual. If that is a symptom of low thyorid, then I have known about that for YEARS! No doc ever mentioned those being tied together....)

[georgie]

Tiffany, I can help with your test results if you have them. Post the ranges too. Save your money. Endos are the WORST for treating thyroid. Ring your chemist for a Dr that is using Armour in your area. Even a good Naturopath like Ursula has, and they may help you find a good dr.

Pernicious Anaemia is autoimmune like Celiac and Hashis Thyroid and Vitiligo and a host of others. Once you have one autoimmune disease you are at risk of getting more. Are the sublinguals working ? I find I still need weekly jabs

[darlindeb25]

Ursula--I was just reading this thread and I would like to mention one thing. Your B12 level being at 830 is not necessarily a good thing. Normal range is 200-1100--my level tested at 1237 and for me, that isn't high enough for my neuropathy. To begin with, the reference range for B12 is sat way too low. 830 probably is closer to a low average than you realize. I take 2400mcg of B12 daily, which is 40,000% of the recommended amount and my level is just above what is considered high, yet it is not high enough for me. Which also is true of me, taking that much daily means my body doesn't utilize B12 properly in the first place. When my levels were tested, I was taking the B12 daily--I went to the doctor for my neuropathy and he ordered blood test done not considering I had not fasted--so I truly do not feel the levels were correct. Taking more B12 may be very beneficial for you.

[georgie]

Deb, I have severe neuro symtoms with my low B12 and still seem to need weekly jabs. I tried going to monthly jabs but very ill again with extreme tiredness, breathlessness and nerve zaps in my feet. My B12 level was 148 when dx. this year. I am taking sublinguals but don't think they are working. So far I have had 13 weeks of weekly jabs and am sick of it !

[Ursa Major]

Thanks, Deb, for your suggestion. But considering that within a year I went from 24 (last October, which my doctor didn't consider a big problem, figures, I guess) to now being 830 in just a year, it's obviously rising very fast, and will likely keep going up. I'll mention it to my doctor (naturopath), though, we're still figuring everything out, I've been seeing him for only just over a month now.

[tiffjake]

Tiffany, I can help with your test results if you have them. Post the ranges too. Save your money. Endos are the WORST for treating thyroid. Ring your chemist for a Dr that is using Armour in your area. Even a good Naturopath like Ursula has, and they may help you find a good dr.

Pernicious Anaemia is autoimmune like Celiac and Hashis Thyroid and Vitiligo and a host of others. Once you have one autoimmune disease you are at risk of getting more. Are the sublinguals working ? I find I still need weekly jabs

Test: 08/29/2006

TSH 1.650 Range 0.400-4.00

Free T4 1.100 Range 0.800-1.900

B12 635 Range 211-911

Folic Acid 9.0 Range Deficient: <3.4

Test: 03/09/06

T3 Uptake 34 Range 24-69

Test: 3/09/2006

TSH 2.120 Range 0.400-4.00

Free T4 1.200 Range 0.800-1.900

Test: 12/9/2005

ALT 17.0 Range 30.0-65.0 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Total Protein 4.5 Range 6.4-8.2

MCH 27.6 Range 30.0-34.0

Test: 12/30/2005

B12 534 Range 211-911

Folic Acid 5.9 Range Deficient <3.4 Indeterminate: 3.4-5.4

Magnesium 1.9 Range 1.6-2.6

Test: 1/31/2006- Nuclear Medicine Thyroid Scan and Uptake

"The 24 hours radioactive iodine uptake is 20.4%."

Impression: "Normal iodine uptake and scan"

Test: 2/02/2006 Thyroid Ultrasound

"Along the margin, there appears to be a tiny shadowing echogenic focus suggesting calcification. There are no other findings identified."

Impression" Involving the right thyroid lobe, there is a small subcentimeter nodule.

Test: 1/11/06

TSH 3.578 Range 0.350-5.500

T4 5.6 Range 4.5-12.0

T3 UPtake 31 Range 24-39

Free Thyroxine 1.7 Range 1.2-4.9

Cortisol-AM 20.1 Range 4.3-22.4

AND this is the test that started the whole thing:

Test: 12-15-2006

Free T4 1.2 Range 0.8-1.8

TSH W/ Reflex to FT4 7.06 Range 0.40-5.50

Test: 6/21/2005

TSH 1.616 Range 0.350-5.500

T4 8.5 Range 4.5-12.0

T3 29 Range 24-39

Free Thyroxine Index 2.5 Range 1.2-4.9

Maybe objective eyes can see something else........

[georgie]

Tiffany, These labs are so sad I could cry. YES - you are Hypo. Do you realise you have never been tested for Hashimotos Thyroid ? That is the autoimmune one - and highly suspected for you because a) you have Celiac (otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum) and b ) your labs are bouncing around up and down.

TSH >2 is considered Hypo these days.... You have scored a 7.06 !! OMG !!!! The lab range your lab has used is OUTDATED ! The new range is 0.5 - 3.5 and even that is under review and that is why anything >2 is now considered suspicious.

You haven't had FREE T3 tested !!! That is the test that shows ACTIVE T hormones in your blood. T4 shows storage....

ANTIBODIES !!!!!!! You need antibodies tested !

With Hashis - your labs will go up and down all the time as they attack your Thyroid. Even tests a day apart can show a huge difference. Once dx with Hashis - labs are nearly useless. Just the Frees to see what level your Armour is at. Our Dr lets our Free T3 ( the active one ) get 2.0 OVER range. Once you have aproblem it seems you need to be OVER normal to feel good.

Your B12 isn't good. It should sit nearer 1000. In Japan they actually treated B12 of 500 as NOT NORMAL. At this stage you may find that B12 sublinguals work for you. Try them every day and recheck your B12 labs in a year. Low B12 can mean Pernicious Anaemia and that is also autoimmune. PA is hard to dx. But if dx - you may need endoscopies every 2 years to check for stomach cancers.

You need a Dr that treats Thyroid and understands temp charts, Broda Barnes, Dr Jeffries etc. Usually if they rx Armour and order saliva testing - they are 'that' type of Dr. Ask the receptionist as you ring around what the Dr does. If you PM me your state I may know of a good Dr in your area.

Without a healthy Thyroid you are going to get worse and worse.....

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Georgie, do we keep producing thyroid antibodies when we are taking the right dosage of thyroid hormone? Or do we stop producing it?

[georgie]

Fiddle faddle, The idea is to suppress the Antibodies that are attacking your Thyroid (and killing it). The Thyroid meds do that and 1000s have found that they did badly on Synthetics and when they made the switch - better on Armour. Antibodies are not normal. Its an Autoimmune attack. When you have Hashis you need a TSH near 0.

Re actual Thyroid hormone ...Armour is only replacing what your body is no longer producing. So ...its not a total replacement ( unless you have had Rai and a thyroid removed) but more of a supplement. That's why the dosing is so critical - you need to keep increasing Armour slowly until SYMPTOMS of low Thyroid go away. There isn't a standard dose that suits everyone. Some need 2 grains, some need 3 1/4 grains, some even need 11 grains. At the moment I am on 3 1/2 grains and my antibodies are suppressed , and Goitre is shrinking but still feel slightly Hypo and my temps are still below normal. So am going to raise 1/4 grain in 3 weeks.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I was told (wrongly, perhaps?) that even with the right dosage, we Hashimoto's patients continue to produce anti-thyroid antibodies, just as we celiacs continue to produce IgG even when we are not eating any gluten.

[georgie]

You can still have Antibodies but they should be kept as low as possible. Synthetic meds like Synthroid don't do a very good job so if Dr has only ever used Synthroid he thinks that high Antibodies whilst on Thyroid meds like Synthroid are normal. Probably has been told that by a drug company. My Antibodies are 0 at the moment on Armour. I still have Hashis - as its autoimmune you never are free of it. But at least it is suppressed. And I feel great ! No Fibro, no fatigue and losing excess weight like magic. My eyes are wide open like they used to be when I was a teenager. It looks like I have had a facelift! Armour has been used for 100 years - long before synthetics were invented. But , sadly, there is more profit in keeping people sick than healing them. Think of all the diabetes, cholesterol, anti depresents, pain meds on the market today which would not be needed if people took care of their low Thyroid first with a med that WORKS.

[tiffjake]

This is so frustrating! I can't find a doctor that will see me without a thyroid diagnosis. They don't want to do the work, they just want to give out meds. And my doc is stumped ("Oh, uh, I don't know, Hm, maybe your should see a specialist").

I hate doctors.

[tiffjake]

I didn't mean to hijack your thread Ursula, in fact, thank you for this discussion! I made an appointment with my primary doc so I can get a referral to a endo. Thanks for the insight! Tiff

[Ursa Major]

I didn't mean to hijack your thread Ursula, in fact, thank you for this discussion! I made an appointment with my primary doc so I can get a referral to a endo. Thanks for the insight! Tiff

Tiffany, you didn't hijack 'my' thread! It is still on topic, and if it's helping others discover what might be causing their problems as well, I am happy.

You know, you don't need a referral to see a naturopath. You might just want to find yourself a good naturopath, like I did, to finally get some answers.

Georgie, the lab my bloodwork was done is still using the old scale for the TSH. They claim that 0.35 - 5.00 is 'normal', and now I read that it has been changed to being hypo over 3.00. Mine was 3.76 and they say it's fine.

[tiffjake]

Tiffany, you didn't hijack 'my' thread! It is still on topic, and if it's helping others discover what might be causing their problems as well, I am happy.

You know, you don't need a referral to see a naturopath. You might just want to find yourself a good naturopath, like I did, to finally get some answers.

I would, but in the States, they can't prescribe meds, draw blood, or do anything involving "medicine" without a medical lisence. (The only reason I know this for sure is because I was going to go to Naturopathic Medicine School! And decided against it because there are only 4 schools that are "in-house" and the online-mail-type schools are under investigation because some claim you can get your N.D. in 6 weeks. An "ND" in Colorado killed a young boy, doing photo-luminesence therapy-removing the blood and running it through a light machine and returning it to the body- so Colorado is really cracking down on people claiming to be doctors without a medical lisence. I didnt even want to get into that whole mess........)

Anyway, I just worry now about what kind of ND I would get and what kind of education they would have. So I haven't really gone too far looking into finding one locally.

[Ursa Major]

You might need to investigate the ones you're looking at, by asking them what school they've gone to, how long they've gone to university, etc., search for their names on the Internet, and interview them before you decide you will have them.

My doctor has a policy, where you can see him for 15 minutes for free, before you decide if you want to see him again and pay for a visit. I did that.

I know this all takes time, but in order not to get a quack it will be necessary. Here in Canada I think you can call yourself only a naturopathic practitioner if you haven't gone to a real university, and if you are not actually a doctor. And I'm sure only the doctors will be allowed to prescribe meds once they change the rules here.

On a different note: I did the iodine test described earlier in this thread. I painted a two inch square of iodine onto my thigh last night at 12:30 AM, and by now it is so faint it is hardly visible at all. I'm sure it will be completely gone before the 24 hours are up. More confirmation that something isn't right with my thyroid!

I'm seeing my naturopath again next Thursday. I wished it was earlier!

[georgie]

Ursula, Your Dr is WRONG. Sorry. The new range has been changed lower and is even under review again. Our Dr knows this and MANY others. You just need to find a Dr that understands this. My Dr treats all patients with TSH > 2 as Hypo.

Georgie, the lab my bloodwork was done is still using the old scale for the TSH. They claim that 0.35 - 5.00 is 'normal', and now I read that it has been changed to being hypo over 3.00. Mine was 3.76 and they say it's fine.

Good luck ! Better late than never. I was posting similar info to the Fibro and CFS group and got booted off - so thanks for letting this info become public here. Its important. For some reason - the Thyroid blood tests are flawed. I believe they were tested on male medical students - along with the synthetic new Thyroid drugs - back in the 70s. For some reason - ( DUH) they now realise that women convert Thyroid differently to men.

I'm seeing my naturopath again next Thursday. I wished it was earlier!

[Ursa Major]

Georgie, my GP isn't very informed, and will go with whatever ranges the lab tells her are normal. And since she is around 50, she would probably not know that the ranges have changed, and trusts the lab to know all that. So, I don't blame her.

And my naturopath decided to have me take my temperatures after looking at my values, and listening to me telling him about my symptoms, and was pretty sure I will end up on thyroid meds. And he is totally against Synthroid, too. So, just hold on, I'll keep you updated here.

[georgie]

Great news Ursula !

And my naturopath decided to have me take my temperatures after looking at my values, and listening to me telling him about my symptoms, and was pretty sure I will end up on thyroid meds. And he is totally against Synthroid, too. So, just hold on, I'll keep you updated here.

[azmom3]

I'm interested in this thread....I've asked the dr's before what it meant that my temperature was always lower than "normal." It's never gotten as low as yours, Ursula, but mine is routinely in the 96ish range and maybe gets as high as 97.6 occasionally. Do you think this could indicate anything? The doctor said it didn't mean anything. I've never taken my basal temperature....is this a special thermometer? where do you get it? Or does it just mean taking it with a normal thermometer before you get out of bed in the am? And didn't I read that you have to have 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep before I do this? I rarely if ever get more than 2, let alone 4. Can I take an antihistamine or something to knock me out in order to be able to do this? I have been suffering from severe fatigue for many years. I don't sleep well at night, tossing and turning and waking up dozens of times and staying awake sometimes for hours before drifting off to sleep again. It is always a struggle getting up in the morning and knowing I have to go all day before I get to lie down again. You know what the dr. said? "That's what happens when you have 3 kids!" I know that part of the problem is back pain due to car accidnets years ago. I have always felt there was more to it than that and am desperate to find out how to get some sleep and not be so tired. I've always struggled with being overweight and I strongly believe it's tied to my fatigue. I'm too tired to work out sometimes even though I know it will make me feel better in the end. I literally feel like I might fall asleep at teh wheel in the middle fo the day if I were to drive somewhere. I also feel like I have trouble distinguishing between hunger, tiredness, headache, etc and I tend to eat to see if I will feel better. Does anyone else feel like this? Should I be looking into thyroid problems or anything else? I have yearly physicals and they never show anything, just had bloodwork done for celiac..came back negative. I'm going to do the gluten-free diet anyways after my son's endoscopy to see if it helps. any other words of wisdom?

[georgie]

azmom3, I am not Ursula but - yes - you definately sound Hypo Thyroid. Many Drs don't have a clue when it comes to dx Thyroid. Low Temps are a strong indicator. Basal temp is the temp you take before you get out of bed.Any good thermometer will work. Your Dr needs to test TSH, free T3, free T4, and Antibodies for Hashimotos. A good site to check all the info is www.stopthethyroidmadness.com That tells you all you need to know and they have forums as well to help if you are a bit.

Get your test results printed and tell them the results. Lots of people get told 'normal' as the Dr or the lab don't realise the lab ranges for Hypo Thyroid have been changed. And are still under review.