Constipation

[hathor]

Hi, everyone! This is my first post, so forgive me if this subject has been asked and answered many times already. I've done some reading in past threads and haven't found precisely what I was looking for.

I haven't been officially diagnosed, although I'm thinking of going to Enterolab. It was only a week ago when I hypothesized a connection between a number of (admittedly minor, at least now) symptoms and possible gluten intolerance. I doubt I have celiac from my reading on the subject, but what I've seen referred to as "non-celiac gluten sensitivity" seems to be a definite possibility.

Anyway, I've gone gluten-free for a week and I am feeling better. This is some indication that something is going on (although I recognize the possibility of coincidence or a placebo effect). One thing that hasn't changed, though, is my constipation.

My question is, if this diet is going to have an effect on that, how long will it take?

Some background may be relevant. I'm in my early 50's and have had problems like this my entire life. My childhood was full of laxatives and enemas. The next 30 years I managed because I was addicted to caffeine. My BMs (sorry to be explicit -- but it seems necessary) have always been hard and require a lot of effort to pass. For the last 6 1/2 years, I've been following a very low fat vegan diet. I have stepped up the fiber as much as I can (while still utilizing food, rather than supplements), I exercise, get plenty of fluids, etc. I tried a course of probiotics, which at first seemed to be helping, but now things are back to (ab)normal.

I've off the caffeine now and really prefer how I feel without it. So I don't want to rely on that. Besides all it ever did was give me an irresistable urge to go. It didn't make the process comfortable. Since about everything I eat has fiber in it, I don't know how I can increase that anymore without artificial supplementation, which I prefer to avoid if possible. I keep thinking there is something I can do or not do that will heal my body and make it operate the way it should. I do make a point to use ground flax seed most days.

I'm thinking that a sensitivity to gluten could explain my problem, since -- other than the past week -- I've never been without a lot of the stuff. If my intestines have never worked properly due to this, I imagine they might take some time to recover.

So how long before I decide that I need to do something else to cope with this problem?

[Anonymousgurl]

I have pretty bad constipation issues too, so I feel your pain

Going gluten free helped me to be a little more regular...but I still have some constipation issues. I suppose mine might be from other food sensitivities and allergies though. Magnesium helps me a TON though. It's the ONLY thing that has EVER EVER gotten my bowels moving. They dont really move much without it. I suggest magnesium citramate in capsule form. Tried it yet?

[Willow5]

Constipation can very much be part of an intolerance issue. What I think you should be concerned about right now is getting tested for the antibodies that will tell you if you are reacting to gluten. You may end up enjoying the feeling of gluten-free and then you will be unable to get a diagnosis if you wait too long to get tested! Enterolab seems to have a good system for finding out if you are sensitive for gluten and or milk but if you go gluten-free for too long it wont pick up on your antibodies and you may be left wondering if you really had a problem after all! Your story sounds like my Mom who had constipaton all her life and she did test positive for Gluten sensitivity, she had previously tried all kinds of diets and high fiber etc with little help, her constipation went away on the gluten-free diet. I also have a son who has encopresis (soiling due to severe constipation) this clears up on gluten-free and if he has even a little Gluten we have to give him laxitives to get him going again! Get tested!

[codetalker]

There are two other things to consider trying.

The first is water. I'll put a glass of water in the microwave to warm it up before drinking it. The result is therapeutic. Drinking warm or hot water from the tap is inadvisable.

The second is a yoga exercise I read about that can be used for this problem. It is primarily for ab strength but has a beneficial side-effect. It is a bit difficult to explain and somewhat gross but it is effective. I apologize if anyone is offended by the description.

Stand with your feet shoulder width and then bend your knees with hands on hips. Using your diaphragm and abs, pull everything up into your chest / rib cage and back against your backbone. Keeping things pulled against the backbone, move everything down the backbone in a scraping-like motion. When the end of the backbone is reached, the motion will produce a bit of a pelvic tilt/thrust. Repeat several times. The idea seems to be to massage the intestines.

If there are any yoga experts on this board, maybe one of them can provide a better description and/or pointers.

When I first read about this in a yoga book, it seemed a really odd thing to do. However, it does have some efficacy. If you are in pain, be gentle and do this carefully and with common-sense.

[codetalker]

One other thing about my previous post that I just remembered about the yoga exercise I mentioned in my previous post:

Pregnant women should NOT do this exercise.

Apologies for the omission.

[plantime]

I put a little powdered magnesium oxide in my crangrape juice at night. It takes care of my constipation problems. I also had to reduce my fiber intake. Doc said my intestines don't work like they should, and putting more fiber in them was making everything worse.

[BRUMI1968]

I wonder why you're on a "low fat" diet. I know some folks have difficulties with fat. However ...

Pooping requires three things: water, fiber, "grease". A very low fat diet might not be offering enough grease to the system. So if you don't have some health reason for being on low fat - you might add some healthy fats. RAW olive oil, avocados, walnuts, etc. I wouldn't add cooked fats, since they tend to become ruined with cooking or downright dangerous -- with the exception of coconut oil, which can withstand high heat without degrading, and is reportedly very good for us in many ways.

Good luck. (I've been gluten free for six/eight months, and I still have bouts of constipation; but I've noticed right now in the winter I've been eating high protein and low fiber in my diet -- all those yummy summer foods hidden under the snow.)

I assume you've tried prunes?

[hathor]

To respond to the kind people who have commented so far --

I haven't tried magnesium. This is certainly a possible next step if the gluten-free approach doesn't work. Do food sources of magnesium work as well? I would prefer this to a nonfood supplement, because I worry about taking things in isolation instead of in the combination of nutrients and the like present in real food.

My question was, how long does the gluten-free approach take to work on lessening constipation if it is going to at all? I've read people on this forum saying that going gluten-free has helped their constipation, but no one I've seen has said how long it took before the improvement took place. I want to give this a fair test before I add in another possible cure.

One type of exercise I do is yoga, but I'm unfamiliar with the exercise you describe, codetalker. I can't quite understand what you mean by "move everything down the backbone in a scraping-like motion." With your muscles? Your hands? Several weeks ago I did do a web search for yoga exercises for constipation, but I didn't run across this one. Do you have a link or a name I can search on? (I'm menopausal, so don't worry. The only babies I'm looking forward to are grandkids, although my college-aged children don't want to hear about that right now )

Yes, I've tried prunes. They do nothing for me (although they did work when I was a child). A month or so ago, I was feeling so, well you know , that I had the remainder of a container of prunes. It must have been 2/3's of a box. It did nothing at all for me.

Amount of fat has no impact on my bowels -- unless I have too much and I get diarrhea, cramps, etc I have experimented with different levels of fat in the diets I've followed during my life and have yet to hit some happy medium ... I do have real problems digesting fat since I've been an adult; I find I feel better without the stuff. From my reading, I haven't seen any real health benefit from added fats, either, only detriments. (The diet I follow is described at www.drmcdougall.com. There is quite a bit of discussion, study citation, etc. in the medical information there and in the newsletters. Plus I've read all his books and lots of other materials as well -- by Campbell, Ornish, Esselstyn, Barnard, Robbins, etc. I don't want to get into the whole "healthy fat" or "we need meat and/or dairy" debates here.)

Even after I went to a mostly vegan diet (there are occasional outside forays, plus I never omitted honey), sometimes I don't go low fat. Going higher fat, as I said, has no impact on my bowels at all unless it is a switch to the other extreme. Plenty of people on a McDougall type diet have no problems at all in the bathroom; indeed, ones with problems have them clear up when they switch. Things for me are better than they used to be when I was on a typical American diet; they just aren't the way they should be as, as described in Dr. McDougall's latest book, this one on digestive issues. Which is what put me on my recent quest for good BMs -- what a goal in life, huh

Do you have a link about a connection with fat and bowel movement? Someone mentioned this on another forum a few weeks ago -- I tried a google search and could find absolutely nothing saying this is the case. I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, Bully4You, but I would like to know what you are basing your statement on, what kind of fat, how much, etc. Flax seed does have fat; I can always add more. Plus I can add more nuts and avocados, etc., to my diet since I am currently at my optimum weight. (Losing weight is why I originally started McDougalling. But then my gall bladder attacks and sinus infections stopped, my face cleared up, I read about how this sort of diet helps with diseases that run in my family, etc., so I continued. The doctor wanted to put my husband on medication for GERD and high cholesterol. He went on the diet and solved both problems, and lost weight to boot. My daughter had some problems clear up too. What I'm saying is that it will take a great deal of proof for me to move away from this diet.)

It seems I have less fiber, more fiber, less or more fat, animal products or no animal products, and the one constant has always been very sluggish bowels. I think the transit time is so slow that the stuff gets pretty dry and hard. The one thing I haven't tried, except for the past week, is to cut out gluten.

I will mention that I think it likely that I do have some sensitivity to wheat or gluten, be it an allergic or autoimmune type of response. My nose in recent years has always seemed to be running, a little or a lot. That stopped within a day of cutting out gluten and hasn't come back. I have been prone to sudden sneezing fits (with violently running nose and eyes), which often seemed to come after we ate out at a restaurant where I had a large amount of pasta, gnocchi, bread, etc. None of those in the past week. I've always been really gassy and that has gone away this past gluten-free week. I've tended to headaches and joint pains that came upon me -- again, not in the past week. There are a few other things that I've read about that could be due to wheat or gluten.

I think I am going to get tested with Enterolab. Talking to my husband last night dining at our favorite Italian restaurant (where I had turn down their wonderful pasta and bread and stick with a salad ), he thinks it is worth getting tested even if it is expensive. (Not that I need his permission or anything ) What test or tests do people recommend I get?

Thanks, all!

[marciab]

"Amount of fat has no impact on my bowels -- unless I have too much and I get diarrhea, cramps, etc I have experimented with different levels of fat in the diets I've followed during my life and have yet to hit some happy medium ... I do have real problems digesting fat since I've been an adult; I find I feel better without the stuff. "

Sounds like oils may be part of the solution for you, but you need to start out very slowly. Your body is responding, but it will take time for your body to stop over reacting. Think of it as a pendulum. Your body is going from "C" to "D" and it will take some time before it can settle in the middle.

I would start out with one half tsp of raw fat in your food 3 times a day for a week or so depending on symptoms, then increase to one tsp. I'm at 1 tblsp per meal 3 times a day, but I have been at this for over a year.

I had cramping from oils at first too, but kept using them still. Now, I am fine with them. Raw healthy fats only though. Organic EVOO, flax, grapeseed, borage, etc. Saturated fats and cooked fats are too hard on me still.

I haven't found any info on the pros of using EVOO, flax oil, etc for constipation either ... No one seems to care about this aspect. They can make more money selling supplements.

I can find bookoo articles on the healthy affects of the omegas found in these oils though. We need fat ... Our brains are made up of 70% fat. Open Original Shared Link

If you google brain nutrients you will find other articles too.

I hesitated to answer since I am still fine tuning this (I just stopped eating some foods that were cross contaminating me and causing "D", duh !!) , but we just have so much in common here. I have found that if I eat too much meat, my digestion is slowed down again too. I have mild gastroparesis though.

good luck with this ... marcia

[Chicklet]

My question was, how long does the gluten-free approach take to work on lessening constipation if it is going to at all? I've read people on this forum saying that going gluten-free has helped their constipation, but no one I've seen has said how long it took before the improvement took place. I want to give this a fair test before I add in another possible cure.

Let's see if I can remember, I had problems with constipation and I think it was probably a month or more before they eased up. I wasn't strict though and was still getting some gluten in my diet, boy I learned it hides in a lot of places after I came to this board. Now that said, everyone is different and everybody reacts differently but to really receive a good healing to your intestines you need to be on the diet for a while. I can't remember what they say that while is here but I'm going to go out on a limb and say you should try it for at least 6 months.

Hope you get tested soon and get some answers. My test was the diet and I noticed imediate improvements in many areas. I tried McDougling for a while, I'm not doing it now but I found it was a very healthy way to eat.

[BRUMI1968]

When I quit gluten, my constipation got worse for a spell. After about three months, it got better. However, there are other things that are affecting me with constipation -- definitely dairy - one tiny teaspoon on toast will constipate me for days, possibly corn, possibly nightshades.

So, I think everyone is going to be different; but for me it got worse, then better in about three months. (Yes, it was a frustrating three months, especially as other things faded away - canker sores, itching, brain fog, etc.)

As to the fats - everyone is different. I read the fats affecting bowels on a British site about Irritable Bowel Syndrome. It was actually an interesting article, and included concepts like different timing in the digestive tract, i.e., quick digestion through the stomach; slow digestion through the intestines -- in part controlled by nerve reactions and connections in the brain, which might be "wrong" in an IBS sufferer. It was one of the most comprehensive looks at IBS I had seen - not just focusing on fiber. But I do know the essential fatty acids are really important. The Omega oils. But if you're eating walnuts, you're getting at least some of those.

[BRUMI1968]

I was just trying to find out more about fat and constipation. Cooked fat does seem to trigger IBS symptoms in lots of folks. But most interesting is a new study to come out showing that over 50% of IBS sufferers in the study tested positive for fructose intolerance. Thought I'd pass it on.

One Internet page talked about two different kinds of constipation: lazy bowel and spastic bowel - and wanted to compare the final product to decide which one has - the latter having ribbon like stool...more like there is a blockage than like it's just been sitting in there for a week.

Lastly, I read that high doses of calcium supplements cause many to have constipation - and I recall that is true with some iron supplements as well. Good luck.

[Anonymousgurl]

To respond to the kind people who have commented so far --

I haven't tried magnesium. This is certainly a possible next step if the gluten-free approach doesn't work. Do food sources of magnesium work as well? I would prefer this to a nonfood supplement, because I worry about taking things in isolation instead of in the combination of nutrients and the like present in real food.

We have a lot of similarities. I took all the fat out of my diet too, AND I hate taking supplements. I'd rather get nutrients through food. But I found that without oil in my diet, and with the constipation problems that i have, i HAVE to take magnesium pills. But I guess you could also buy the powder form and sprinkle it on your food, or break the pills open. that's a possibility.

Have you found any information on what a fatless diet does to your body? I've always wondered what my nonfat diet is doing to me. LoL.

[Aizlynn]

I seem to notice that many of you have been misdiagnosed with ailments for years, among them IBS. Is that just a scapegoat for docs when they can't figure out a food sensitivity/celiac? Or do IBS and celiac seem to go hand in hand. The diets a read to follow for IBS and gluten free, casen free seem to leave nothing to eat.... for me, not eating bread I sub'd eating lettuce wraps, which are bad for IBS. Did anyone find that as they followed the gluten free/dairy free lifestlye that "IBS" symptoms ceased?

on a side note - I can't not beleive I am discussing all these personal "butt" subjects on line, but in a way, it is a sense of relief to have a forum to discuss this in a mature manner

[emcmaster]

First off, your childhood being "full of laxatives and enemas" may have set you up for a harder (pardon the pun) time later in life. Laxatives generally cause the body to be dependent on them.

I'm chronically constipated, although it is so much better since going gluten-free. I take between 1000-2000mg of magnesium daily and it seems to do the trick. My GI says that it is the same thing as taking Milk of Magnesia... but a lot cheaper and better tasting.

[emcmaster]

I put a little powdered magnesium oxide in my crangrape juice at night. It takes care of my constipation problems. I also had to reduce my fiber intake. Doc said my intestines don't work like they should, and putting more fiber in them was making everything worse.

Didn't see this before I posted, but I totally agree about too much fiber making things worse. I took fiber supplements and ate loads of fiber for years and it only seemed to plug me up more!

Another thing re: fat. Many of us (maybe not many, but some indeed) have problems digesting fats when we first go gluten-free. I knew I couldn't handle fats before I knew I couldn't handle gluten. Thankfully though, I can now digest fat just fine. Something to think about...

[hathor]

Thanks, I'll try to be a bit more patient then!

It makes sense that the repair to one's system wouldn't happen overnight, much as we might like that I'll keep plugging away with the diet and in the meantime get tested.

[hathor]

I love hummus, but have been trying to limit it due to the olive oil and tahini inside. (Also baba ghanoush ...) I don't seem to have problems with them (other than guilt LOL) I would have little reluctance to add that.

I love dark chocolate too. Please tell me that can be good for me too. Actually, I've read about some supposed health benefits of the stuff. The problem would be limiting myself to a reasonable amount. I seem to have the same problem with nuts.

Over the holidays I ended up having a lot more fat that usual due to gifts of nuts. Friends and relatives don't know what else to give people on vegan diets, I guess. I tolerated them, but then it made no impact in the bathroom at all.

I always thought that what the brain uses is mostly carb's. I will do some more research as you suggest. I do get omega 3's from the ground flax seed.

Forgive the first post where I just quoted you. I'm still learning how this posting system works.

[hathor]

When I quit gluten, my constipation got worse for a spell. After about three months, it got better. However, there are other things that are affecting me with constipation -- definitely dairy - one tiny teaspoon on toast will constipate me for days, possibly corn, possibly nightshades.

So, I think everyone is going to be different; but for me it got worse, then better in about three months. (Yes, it was a frustrating three months, especially as other things faded away - canker sores, itching, brain fog, etc.)

As to the fats - everyone is different. I read the fats affecting bowels on a British site about Irritable Bowel Syndrome. It was actually an interesting article, and included concepts like different timing in the digestive tract, i.e., quick digestion through the stomach; slow digestion through the intestines -- in part controlled by nerve reactions and connections in the brain, which might be "wrong" in an IBS sufferer. It was one of the most comprehensive looks at IBS I had seen - not just focusing on fiber. But I do know the essential fatty acids are really important. The Omega oils. But if you're eating walnuts, you're getting at least some of those.

Dairy does seem to affect me as well, as it does with quite a few other people. I only occasionally have the stuff, usually because my husband doesn't carefully read the ingredients when he shops for food. To be nice, at Thanksgiving I had a slice of cheesecake a relative and his new girl friend made. Wow, did I suffer after that! I need to remember that the next time I get tempted ...

I hope I don't react to corn or nightshades. I'm going to end up with little to eat I guess if the gluten-free diet doesn't have an impact in three months, I should go on an elimination diet. That seems so difficult, so I was hoping to avoid it.

I do get a daily dose of omega 3s from flax seed. The problem with walnuts (or any nuts) in the house is that I snack like crazy on them if they are available. Someone needs to make single serving packs for people like me Having lost 25 pounds last year (on purpose -- a "I'm going into menopause, I'm not going to be one of those women who gain weight, I'm going to get better than ever" sort of thing), I am concerned about putting it back on. I bought a whole new wardrobe and gave a lot of old clothes away.

Come to think of it, I should do some research and see if menopause and/or weight loss has an impact on one's bowel function.

The flax seed is also supposed to help with constipation, but it doesn't do that for me, obviously. I could up the dose. I just need to figure out how to do that. I think I put as much on my morning cereal as the taste and consistency can handle. People have said they put it on fruit or in salads, but I find all that too gritty.

[hathor]

I was just trying to find out more about fat and constipation. Cooked fat does seem to trigger IBS symptoms in lots of folks. But most interesting is a new study to come out showing that over 50% of IBS sufferers in the study tested positive for fructose intolerance. Thought I'd pass it on.

One Internet page talked about two different kinds of constipation: lazy bowel and spastic bowel - and wanted to compare the final product to decide which one has - the latter having ribbon like stool...more like there is a blockage than like it's just been sitting in there for a week.

Lastly, I read that high doses of calcium supplements cause many to have constipation - and I recall that is true with some iron supplements as well. Good luck.

Hmm, I wonder where one gets tested for fructose intolerance? Just what I need Actually, when I was losing weight I wasn't getting much of the stuff at all. Now, I sometimes have these big fruit salads and I don't seem to suffer. I don't have any reason to suspect a problem, in other words. But something more to keep in mind ... sigh ...

What I do try to avoid is high fructose corn syrup, something that finds its way into lots of prepared foods. From what I've read, the stuff is not good for you. Same thing is true for isolated soy proteins, I recently found out.

What a lovely discussion we are having -- "final product," indeed I love that ... Anyway, I have the lazy one. I don't get real urges to go very often and I have to push way to hard to get anything to come out. Sorry to be so graphic. I was reading the other day at a site where a doctor swears what people have to do is take metamucil and mineral oil every day, upping the dosage until you go regularly and without much effort every day. Then you can try to cut back. He claims, though, that mineral oil isn't a laxative and has no adverse side effects. Not what I've heard ...

I have heard that about calcium and iron supplements as well. I don't take them, however.

One really has to do a lot of sleuthing to try to figure out the answer, huh?

[hathor]

Have you found any information on what a fatless diet does to your body? I've always wondered what my nonfat diet is doing to me. LoL.

First of all, I think if you are eating real food, you aren't going to have a completely nonfat diet. Most foods have a tiny amount. I believe the average content of the McDougall diet is 7-10 percent fat. If you go to the McDougall web site, you can see a great deal of information about fat and its role in human nutrition, disease, and the like. His position is that this amount of fat is sufficient, indeed optimal, and that more fat promotes disease. I don't recall an upper amount on the fat content. Most people seem to go on the diet to lose weight and so the 7-10 applies to them. He does say that once you are at the optimum weight, you can add in higher fat items like tofu, avocadoes, nuts, and the like, to keep from losing too much.

Dr. McDougall has written a number of books on the subject, too. You can find others as well. I recently read Saunders, "The Vegan Diet as Chronic Disease Prevention." (Good, but published four years ago, so some recent studies aren't covered). Keeping up on the literature seems to be easiest if you read Dr. McD's free monthly newsletters. Each month he addresses studies that recently came out. On the web site, you can see a list of past articles if you aren't interested in a particular topic. He also has a discussion board there -- one category is health, and there is a separate board for gluten-free as well (not as many people there as here, though, hence my coming to this board). If you have a question you don't find answered anywhere else, he is good in responding to individual emails.

One book that is on my list to read is Robbins, "Healthy at 100." This looks at the characteristics of those cultures with particularly high longevity. Actually, this is similar to what happened with Dr. McDougall. He was the doctor at a plantation in Hawaii and found the first generation Asians who kept to their traditional diets lacked degenerative diseases, while the second generation who adopted a SAD (Standard American Diet) got fat and came down with the diseases that plague our country. While he reads and refers to lots of clinical studies, he also looks at the diets followed by the healthiest societies.

Are you familiar with the work of Dr. Ornish? He is the one who found that with an essentially plant-based diet (the exception is I believe he allows egg whites) with no added fat, exercise and stress reduction, cardiovascular disease -- I mean the actual blockages in the arteries -- is reversed. Dr. Esselstyn has done similar work as I recall.

In the news in the past year, there was a study with a similar diet being used successfully to treat Type 2 diabetes. There is a doctor who has had a great deal of success with MS, too.

The best thing is to look at the medical information on the www.drmcdougall.com website.

Another book you might like is Campbell, "The China Study." Although he discusses quite a few other studies (and the politics, not science, behind current dietary recommendations of the establishment), the heart of the book is a report on the largest study ever taken to compare diet to disease prevalence. Within China, there are wider disparities between the types of diets than you get in the US. So correlations that don't come across in the US, show up there. Campbell finds the strongest correlation between animal products and disease. But, for most of the areas he looked at, animal products are where the fat was.

This is why you have to be very careful when you read media accounts of research supposedly saying that "low fat" doesn't have an effect on something or people do better when they have lots of fish or olive oil. Their "low fat" is usually 30%, which is very close to what the average is to begin with. And what they replace the calories with is something unhealthy in its own right! The people to whom the Mediterranean, or whatever, diet are being compared to are those who eat lots of red meat and dairy. They never compare to folks eating a real low fat, vegan diet.

This is obviously an area that I can't cover adequately in one post. I don't expect anyone to simply take my word for it as to what is the healthiest diet. Just read for yourself (and never stop reading) and make up your own mind!

[hathor]

How soon did you see an effect from going gluten-free?

I guess getting that amount of magnesium each day would be very hard to get from food.

Is this something you are supposed to take indefinitely or are you to cut back slowly once the constipation (hopefully) because a thing of the past? Is a magnesium supplement something one could get dependent on, like a laxative?

And one final question -- is magnesium something you have to balance with more or less of something else? So many supplements, it seems like if you take them, you need to make sure you keep the right balance with something else. I haven't researched this yet and I thought you, or your doctor, might have ...

Thanks