Why Did I Pay For A Gene Test?

[JerryK]

Upon reading Dr. Fine at Enterolab's FAQ about test result interpretation, I'm questioning why I bothered with a gene test. If you read closely, you'll note that he states at least 81% of Americia is genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. What chance do I have of seeing anything other than positive?

Having not seen what his printed results are like, I hope he explains what the different genetic variants mean. Anyone who's had these tests...how are his results presented to you and did you feel like you got your $$s worth? What is it I am missing here?? I mean is the main benefit here getting to see how many of the GI or Celiac genes you have?(I think I might have just answered my own question here)

DQ2 is present in 31% of the general American population. DQ8 (without DQ2) is present in another 12%. Thus, the main celiac genes are present in 43% of Americans. Include DQ1 (without DQ2 or DQ8), which is present in another 38%, yields the fact that at least 81% of America is genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (Of those with at least one DQ1 allele, 46% have DQ1,7, 42% have DQ1,1, 11% have DQ1,4, and 1% have DQ1,9.) Of the remaining 19%, most have DQ7,7 (an allele almost identical in structure to DQ2,2, the most celiac-predisposing of genetic combinations) which in our laboratory experience is associated with strikingly high antigliadin antibody titers in many such people. Thus, it is really only those with DQ4,4 that have never been shown to have a genetic predisposition to gluten sensitivity, and this gene combination is very rare in America (but not necessarily as rare in Sub-Saharan Africa or Asia where the majority of the inhabitants are not only racially different from Caucasians, but they rarely eat gluten-containing grains, and hence, gluten-induced disease is rare). Thus, based on these data, almost all Americans, especially those descending from Europe (including Mexico and other Latin states because of the Spanish influence), the Middle East, the Near East (including India), and Russia, are genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (That is why we are here doing what we do!) But be aware that if a person of any race has a gluten sensitive gene, and eats gluten, they can become gluten sensitive.

[JerryK]

This article by Dr. Scot Lewey answered my questions:

Understanding the Genetics of Gluten Sensitivity

[rez]

Did you get your blood test back yet?

[Rachel--24]

Personally, I dont believe the gene test has any significance in determining whether or not gluten is causing any problems/symptoms. Unless you are of Asian decent you are pretty much guaranteed to come back with gluten sensitive genes. I've yet to see *anyone* not have a pair of these genes.

Therefore, I'd say unless you are wanting to know if you carry a Celiac gene specifically...why waste the money??

Also, just "having" a Celiac gene doesnt indicate Celiac....most people with the gene never develop the disease.

The gene test doesnt really give any clues as to why someone is ill...most of the population carries these genes so its not like "Ahhhh.....I've found out I have gluten sensitive genes....now I have my answer!!"

The diet itself would be a much better indication as to whether or not you have problems with gluten....and its FREE!

[Fiddle-Faddle]

[. Unless you are of Asian decent you are pretty much guaranteed to come back with gluten sensitive genes.

Interesting point. Even more interesting is the fact that gluten sensitivity seems to be unheard of in Asia--but it occurs with increasing frequency in 2nd and 3rd generation Asian-Americans, as their diet becomes more and more Westernized (i.e., gluten-filled).

[Gentleheart]

I came in the back door with this disease. Because I was ignorant of how it worked, I did the enterolab tests first, dutifully eliminated all the gluten and didn't know about endoscopies and biopsies until it was way too late to make them accurate. So I depend upon these tests for my foundation. I am happy I did the genetic test. It is maybe not so informative all by itself, but it certainly makes up an important piece of the puzzle I'm trying to construct. And besides....it's interesting. I wish I could test my parents and all my other relatives. I would love to study and track the pattern of this disease in my family. I would recommend taking all the tests if you can afford it. If a person intends to live comfortably with this disease for the rest of their life, why not know it all? How can you effectively fight something without all the facts? I say, go for it.

[Rachel--24]

Interesting point. Even more interesting is the fact that gluten sensitivity seems to be unheard of in Asia--but it occurs with increasing frequency in 2nd and 3rd generation Asian-Americans, as their diet becomes more and more Westernized (i.e., gluten-filled).

Alison,

It definately comes down to the Westernized diet. Logic tells me theres more to it than the average diet being gluten-filled though.

For one thing, leaky gut is the biggest factor in developing an immune response to gluten. Candida overgrowth is the biggest factor in developing a leaky gut. The good 'ol American diet is a "yeastie's" best friend.

The chemicals, dyes and preservatives are also damaging to the gut. In my opinion a standardized American diet predisposes all of us to leaky gut....hence gluten intolerance.

And then there is the research showing that gliadin and candida share the exact same amino acid sequence....the sequence which triggers the immune response to gluten.

Celiac.com 08/25/2003

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Alison,

It definately comes down to the Westernized diet. Logic tells me theres more to it than the average diet being gluten-filled though.

For one thing, leaky gut is the biggest factor in developing an immune response to gluten. Candida overgrowth is the biggest factor in developing a leaky gut. The good 'ol American diet is a "yeastie's" best friend.

The chemicals, dyes and preservatives are also damaging to the gut. In my opinion a standardized American diet predisposes all of us to leaky gut....hence gluten intolerance.

And then there is the research showing that gliadin and candida share the exact same amino acid sequence....the sequence which triggers the immune response to gluten.

https://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=859

I think the fact that there is sooooo much gluten in our diet just means that there is a whole LOT of gluten passing through a leaky gut.....but I dont think gluten is actually causing the leaky gut in the first place....especially in non-celiac gluten intolerance.

I think anyone....of *any* decent can end up reacting to gluten (including those of Asian decent) if they subject their guts to large amounts of processed foods, chemicals, sugar, preservatives, fast food, etc. Unfortunately, if they end up with leaky gut and gluten intolerance...they will have a very difficult time finding a diagnosis. They will not develop Celiac....they'll most likely end up with the good 'ol American diagnosis of IBS.

Also, from all my years in the grocery business....I can tell you that 1st generation Asian Americans do not eat a Westernized diet.....they eat fresh produce and meat as most of their diet. However, their children and grandchildren are eating less "whole foods" and more processed foods. I suspect there are PLENTY of Asian Americans who are gluten intolerant.

Not everyone has "the genes"....but everyone does have candida....thus making them susceptible to leaky gut.

Rachel, if I could, I'd nominate you for a Nobel prize in science!!!

[Rachel--24]

Rachel, if I could, I'd nominate you for a Nobel prize in science!!!

ROFL...

Alison...if any of my friends saw that!!

This is my secret identity...noone around me knows of my fascination with scientificness.

If I started trying to explain some of this stuff...I think I'd get alot of these looks.

[JerryK]

Personally, I dont believe the gene test has any significance in determining whether or not gluten is causing any problems/symptoms. Unless you are of Asian decent you are pretty much guaranteed to come back with gluten sensitive genes. I've yet to see *anyone* not have a pair of these genes.

Therefore, I'd say unless you are wanting to know if you carry a Celiac gene specifically...why waste the money?? !

So where were you guys when I paid my $199?? Seriously, I know it will not actually diagnose anything, but it will be interesting to know.

To the earlier poster who asked if I'd gotten my blood test results...nope...1 week and still waiting.

I'm sure Kaiser sends them out to a lab that has some idea what a Celiac test is....

All I really know and perhaps I ever will know, is that too much glutenated products give me the runs.

Is it actually the gluten? Or is it all the other stuff that goes along with eating gluten? Preservatives, sugar..all the crap that's in our processed diet?

It is obvious that our troubles are a direct result of the pre-processed, wheat loaded diet that we are subjected to. This is the new diabetes and the troubles are just beginning...IMHO.

[Rachel--24]

1 week and still waiting.

I'm sure Kaiser sends them out to a lab that has some idea what a Celiac test is....

Jerry...If I remember correctly it took me 3 weeks to get my Celiac results....I had Kaiser too. My condolences.

[Judyin Philly]

[quote name=JerryK' date='Feb 13 2007, 06:07 PM' post='269395]

So where were you guys when I paid my $199?? Seriously, I know it will not actually diagnose anything, but it will be interesting to know.

[Rachel--24]

Answers, girlfriend, or i'm coming after ya for the $369.OO..OK i'll pay the shipping.

Judy

Judy....I was trying to figure out why the Enterolab test?? I was asking why you needed it since already diagnosed with Celiac?? If you got diagnosed Celiac then why the gene test??

Maybe you never saw my post??

I'm not anti-Enterolab and certainly not against people doing what they feel is necessary....but yeah....I've grown skeptical and I dont feel the testing provides real answers for chronic illness.

I would advise people to try the diet and if it doesnt work....move on to other issues.....thats basically what the OMG thread is all about.

Obviously we all need to be off of gluten....but if we arent better we gotta look into *other* things....and I dont really know how Enterolab can answer that because you've already been off of gluten and dairy but not getting better.

Enterolab cant tell you whether or not you have Celiac but it doesnt really matter because you are gluten free and staying that way.

I will never eat gluten again..but need to find why i'm not 'fixed' with just celiac diet.

Judy, I think you can find this out.....but you'd need to focus on new things....and just accept that Celiac is a "part" of your illness...just not ALL of it.

You popped in very excited about the Enterolab test. I wasnt clear as to why you needed it but heck.....if you're excited....I'm excited. I just want you to get whatever answers you're looking for.

Rachel, wonder if in all your testing and love of 'scientificness' you've come to believe it's Candida and heavy metals...that are the underlying problem that predisposes the gluten response and the leaky gut???

Judy,

Mainly I think its Candida causing the leaky gut...which causes the gluten intolerance. Leaky gut is believed to be involved in the development of autoimmune disease....I tend to believe it.

Not only is gluten, casein and other food antigens passing through the gut.....but also bacteria, fungi, yeasts, parasites and other "unwanted" guests.

These are the "bad guys" which would trigger the immune system to attack the host. This is what leads to autoimmune disease, Fibromyalgia, CFS, etc.

There is plenty evidence and research supporting this theory.....

FIRST the victims suffer a flu-like illness: aches, chills, headache, a fever. They gradually recover, never really knowing what hit them. But then -- perhaps right away, often much later -- their immune systems begin to attack various cells and tissues in their bodies.

The target can be cells in the pancreas, the membrane lining of knuckles and other joints, a brain protein, skin cells or heart tissue. But in all cases the result is a so-called autoimmune disease in which the body attacks itself, sometimes with crippling effect, sometimes even leading to an early death.

Ten years ago, if the victim asked, ''Why me? Why did my body turn against itself?'' a doctor could not have answered the question. But many prominent immunologists here and abroad say that answers are beginning to be found in a controversial theory called molecular mimicry. Like the Rosetta stone, which provided a key for deciphering hieroglyphics, molecular mimicry is a key to reading the origin and development of diseases in which the immune system plays the villain rather than the protector.

These ailments remain deeply mysterious, partly because of the complexity of the immune system, which involves thousands of interactions, hundreds of obscure cellular networks and scores of cell types that encode human responses to disease, determining when or if people get sick, how long they stay sick and how or if they recover.

The theory of molecular mimicry suggests that common pathogens, mostly viruses and bacteria, touch off autoimmune diseases when a person's immune system commits a colossal blunder, confusing foreign proteins with the body's own proteins. When immune system agents attack the pathogen, they also attack the body they are intended to protect.

Pathogens like bacteria and viruses have been implicated in autoimmune disease for some time, said Dr. Lawrence Steinman, a professor of neurology at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif. But convincing proof was lacking. New findings reported in the last two or three years, however, are offering more support for the idea in revealing biochemical mechanisms that may be involved.

So thats my belief....mercury is a seperate issue.....although if you were to have high levels of mercury you would be vulnerable to pathogens.....particularly Candida.

I think Candida plays the biggest role in gluten intolerance because its known to cause leaky gut and its known to have the exact same amino acid sequence that gluten has. The amino acid sequence is what triggers the immune systems response to gluten.....its what causes the reaction everytime a Celiac ingests gluten.

The immune system can launch an attack on Candida (if it were to overgrow and become pathogenic) after this the immune system can continue to launch that same attack on gluten....because they appear to be identical. As far as we know....Candida is the *only* thing known to have that exact same amino acid sequence that gluten has.

Candida which adheres itself to the intestinal wall is also targeted by tissue transglutinamase (tTG).

Therefore it is believed to also be responsible for causing the same chemical and immunological reactions as wheat gluten.

This is mainly where my "scientificness" has led me. So...I tend to believe that bacteria, virus or fungi are responsible for most autoimmune responses. The process can begin with a leaky gut and this would certainly lead to gluten intolerance (or Celiac if genetically susceptible). It doesnt necessarily stop there though....if the problem still exists...we will still suffer symptoms.

Sorry about the Enterolab misunderstanding. I've been posting my doubts about Dr. Fines testing for a few months now.....this doesnt mean you shouldnt be excited about your test. I WANT you to get answers.....wherever they come from...and whatever they may be. If they help you....thats all that matters.

I hope you can read this....and I hope it makes sense. Someone told me my words are sometimes too "technical"....so just YELL at me if I dont make sense. I will "fix" it.

[Judyin Philly]

Thanks Rachel..You know i was kidding you as i've been following your thread.

remember my numbers on the dr's celiac panel only test 2 and not the tTg or what ever as said posible celiac but numbers not high enough to do that one

internist said try diet and i did and it worked for 3-5 months as is typical.

then this yeast rash, remember you and carla helped me ..dr said no you don't have candida ..no test.

thus the new GI

it's the chiro that thinks it candada

what you wrote makes sense to me.

think i ask what test you do for that..and you told me but hell i don't remember and dr said no anyway.

anyway, thanks for being there.

more to ponder.

judy

[Rachel--24]

Thanks Rachel..You know i was kidding you as i've been following your thread.

Yeah...I thought you were kidding.....but just in case you werent. Didnt want you hunting me down for Enterolab money. Heck...I'll be broke anyway. By the time I figure out all thats wrong with me I might be needing a second job.

remember my numbers on the dr's celiac panel only test 2 and not the tTg or what ever as said posible celiac but numbers not high enough to do that one

internist said try diet and i did and it worked for 3-5 months as is typical

.

Ohhh...OK....they should have ran all the tests...especially the tTG.

Anyways...Celiac or not...you obviously had some anti-gliadin antibodies. It doesnt make sense that the Dr. would say "possible Celiac" but numbers dont warrant further testing.

The diet improved symptoms so obviously there was some issues with gluten. The gene test will tell you if it could be Celiac.....so that will be helpful for you.

Alot of us get better and then various symptoms start coming back....or we get sensitive to more foods.....or in my case...ALL foods.

For myself I've decided to focus on what infections I might have that could be causing this....especially since before the food intolerances I had Graves Disease. Thats what I'm doing right now....trying to determine exactly what "bad guys" I'm dealing with and what I need to do to get rid of them.

Thanks for explaining about your Celiac tests....I "get it" now.

[Judyin Philly]

HI HONEY...WELL I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW MUCH $$ YOUR SPENDING ON THE TESTING AND THE ((art)) NOW...

HECK RACHEL...I SHOULD BE PAYING YOU FOR ALL THE 'FREE RESEARCH' YOUR DOING FOR US

I MUST POST MY NUMBERS FOR YOU

I'LL DO THAT TOMORROW AS WE ARE 'SNOWED AND ICED' IN HERE IN HAPPY LITTLE PA.

AGAIN. I DO READ EVERYNITE WHAT YOU POST AND AM LEARNING SO MUCH ....

APPRECIATE YOUR FRIENDSHIP TOO.

HUGS AND NITE. GONG TO BED. iT'S 1:10 AM FOR GOD'S SAKE

J

[gfp]

ROFL...

Alison...if any of my friends saw that!!

This is my secret identity...noone around me knows of my fascination with scientificness.

If I started trying to explain some of this stuff...I think I'd get alot of these looks.

If you have a thread in your name against "scientificness" then what do you expect....

I have never even looked at the RachelVille thread because its very name indicates the content is likely to be is offensive to me.

This is not a criticism of the thread, which I haven't even opened .... indeed If people wish to express their disdain for fact and truth I'd rather its somewhere aside instead of polluting other posts with unsubstantiated beliefs.

All I'm saying is that people including myself will draw their own conclusions and in this case I freely admit my conclusions are simply beliefs that the thread will be offensive based solely on its title, because I see no advantage in clarifying this in the vast scheme of things. Its certainly nothiong personal ..... indeed if it provides a refuge for those who feel comfortable to spend some time in a fantasy world that's more than OK, its helping those people.... its just not (as we English say) my cup of tea.

People offend me everyday by trying to present their unsubstantiated fantasy and beliefs as fact, its something I have to live with and this thread is such a tiny tiny part of that its practically insignificant whereas if I start reading it and it contains what the title promises I'm sure it will wind me up and my posts helping people elsewhere who are willing to accept a little science in thier lives will suffer. I very much doubt its half as bad as I fear .... I just see no advantage in looking to find out?

Hmm... now anyone believe my father was actually Vulcan?

[happygirl]

Jerry,

I can't offer too much about Dr. Fine's "gluten sensitive genes"....but I will say that I do think it is worth it to know if you have one/both of the Celiac genes. Other labs (that doctors' offices use) test for the Celiac genes (which account for about 98 percent of Celiacs) and I think it is useful to distinguish if Celiac could/couldn't be a problem (aside from an obvious problem with gluten).

But, that is just my opinion. (I had the gene testing done and was positive for DQ8, and it helped me to know this).

Laura

[Guest cassidy]

I'm pregnant and I keep going back and forth whether we should have the baby gene tested after he is born. On one hand if it comes back that he has no genes I will be so relieved to know that this won't be a problem that he will have. On the other hand since so many people have these genes I'm pretty sure it would come back positive and I would be even more paranoid about his diet and every little gi issue that he has.

I really wonder if my husband had the gene test how that would come back. He doesn't have celiac but I'm afraid he will blame me if the baby ends up having it. It might (or might not) make me feel a little less guilty if he has the genes as well. We would never waste money on that, but it would be interesting to see.

[Rachel--24]

If you have a thread in your name against "scientificness" then what do you expect....

I have never even looked at the RachelVille thread because its very name indicates the content is likely to be is offensive to me.

This is not a criticism of the thread, which I haven't even opened .... indeed If people wish to express their disdain for fact and truth I'd rather its somewhere aside instead of polluting other posts with unsubstantiated beliefs.

All I can say is perhaps you should open a thread before you assume judgement?? Obviously you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

I do not have a thread "in my name" which is against scientificness. Its quite the opposite...I LOVE scientificness and there is an 836 page thread to prove this.

To clarify....the "Rachelville" thread...is for those who wish to "take a break" from the scientificness and have fun.....which is why its located in the "gab/chat" forum. So.....before you take the time to "attack" things which you have no idea about...maybe you should find out if what you are saying has any basis??

Or perhaps you are just negative in nature and these kinds of posts just cant be helped??

People offend me everyday by trying to present their unsubstantiated fantasy and beliefs as fact, its something I have to live with and this thread is such a tiny tiny part of that its practically insignificant whereas if I start reading it and it contains what the title promises I'm sure it will wind me up and my posts helping people elsewhere who are willing to accept a little science in thier lives will suffer. I very much doubt its half as bad as I fear .... I just see no advantage in looking to find out?

Ummm...correct me if I'm wrong but dont you occassionally post on the "Tickle me Elbow" thread???

This is a thread designed to "escape" reality as well...its a thread to laugh and have a GOOD TIME. I have no clue as to why you would assume that I have a thread against science or that I am trying to present unsubstantiated "fantasy and beliefs" in the thread???

Again....get the facts straight before you openly make assumptions about a person or about a particular thread. If you find friendship, laughter, support, and "light hearted" fun offensive......well then I would have to assume you're missing out on some of the simple pleasures in life.....and for that I'm truelly sorry.

Anyways....I think you have went WAY off topic because THIS thread is about Enterolab....and whether or not it is a useful lab for diagnostic purposes.

[Rachel--24]

HI HONEY...WELL I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE HOW MUCH $$ YOUR SPENDING ON THE TESTING AND THE ((art)) NOW...

Judy,

I got a break with the ART testing. It was FREE if you can believe that. A wonderful person who's interest is in helping others performed the test free of charge.

But yeah...there is a small fortune invested in testing and Dr. visits. I figure my health is worth it though.

[happygirl]

We would never waste money on that, but it would be interesting to see.

You can have the Celiac gene tests done through a blood draw at your doctor's office (they often use Prometheus labs), under the premise that you have Celiac and want to know if it is a possibility for your child at some point. Of course, you will need a good ped that will agree to the testing, but considering that experts recommend that all first degree relatives are tested via bloodwork, this could save a lot of time and effort over the years. Insurance usually covers it, so it would prob only be a copay.

Also, there are other companies that offer it, outside of the doctor's labs...I think Kimball genetics does one and its like 100 bucks or so?!

Laura

[par18]

You can have the Celiac gene tests done through a blood draw at your doctor's office (they often use Prometheus labs), under the premise that you have Celiac and want to know if it is a possibility for your child at some point. Of course, you will need a good ped that will agree to the testing, but considering that experts recommend that all first degree relatives are tested via bloodwork, this could save a lot of time and effort over the years. Insurance usually covers it, so it would prob only be a copay.

Also, there are other companies that offer it, outside of the doctor's labs...I think Kimball genetics does one and its like 100 bucks or so?!

Laura

This is what I had done. Family doctor drew blood. My blood went to LabCorp. Initially I was not going to get any follow-up testing done because I felt fine. This was suggested by Dr. Fasano during his seminar last summer. The reason he said was to insure no gluten was sneaking into my diet. I did not have any anti-body testing done prior to my biopsy a year earlier (no need my condition spoke for itself). A biopsy revealed what someone knowledegable would expect. Anyway I had the anti-body test done and it was normal (negative). Because I felt fine this made sense. However I did get the gene test done to see which one I had. I also had my mother tested. (father deceased). Her gene (DQ2) matched mine. She still has relatives living and we notified them. (not that they wanted to know). This is all the testing I plan on doing. My brother and sister can do what they want as far as their children/grandchildren are concerned. Education should suffice if any of those other family members start to experience Celiac type symptoms. At that point the diet could be attempted before any more money is spent. This however is wishful thinking as people tend to do what they want when it comes to their own situation. Another thing one needs to consider is whether insurance will pay. In my mother's case initaially medicare and her supplemental coverage did not want to pay but a letter by family doctor convinced them that this was preventive medicine and they relented. Once it was established that the gene was present in the immediate family I don't know if any more testing would be covered prior to implementation of the diet first.

Tom

[gfp]

All I can say is perhaps you should open a thread before you assume judgement?? Obviously you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

I do not have a thread "in my name" which is against scientificness. Its quite the opposite...I LOVE scientificness and there is an 836 page thread to prove this.

To clarify....the "Rachelville" thread...is for those who wish to "take a break" from the scientificness and have fun.....which is why its located in the "gab/chat" forum. So.....before you take the time to "attack" things which you have no idea about...maybe you should find out if what you are saying has any basis??

Not really... the title says something like "no scientificness here...." If that's the thread title I just steer clear away because it has the potential ... neither am I attacking the thread.... its just a thread I chose not to look at because of the title of the thread just as if I saw someone started a thread about "Intellegent design" ...

I have come to realise that if I am going to be on this board at all then I have to limit what threads I read ....

A member pm'd me yesterday ASKING me to read a thread of hers. I had seen the thread and already decided I was not going to read it because of the title but when I was asked specifically for my opinion I checked out the thread.

Or perhaps you are just negative in nature and these kinds of posts just cant be helped??

Rachel, I am pre-disposed to being negative over certain subjects. Hence I try and avoid them. This leads to me making incorrect assumptions sometimes. This is one of those incorrect assumptions. The point is I am willing to admit I make incorrect assumptions and live with it....

Ummm...correct me if I'm wrong but dont you occassionally post on the "Tickle me Elbow" thread???

Occaisionally, if memory serves me twice! Feel free to check... but its somewhat irrelevant because the title says its a lighthearted chat....

A large proportion of what goes on in Gab/Chat is NOT lighthearted .... I was told for instance that one girl was being told what to do over the termination of a foetus.... I didn't read that thread.... someone pm'd me about it and I replied I had no intention of even OPENING that thread.

This is a thread designed to "escape" reality as well...its a thread to laugh and have a GOOD TIME. I have no clue as to why you would assume that I have a thread against science or that I am trying to present unsubstantiated "fantasy and beliefs" in the thread???

This is three seperate things.... why would I assume is easiest, because of the title of the thread.

However it doesn't matter to me if it is a thread full of unsubstatianted beliefs and knocking science. Everyone has the right to that, I don't agree but I will fight for your right to disagree.

I will just add my mom who I love dearly would probably be posting 10x a day on a thread with that title.

Again....get the facts straight before you openly make assumptions about a person or about a particular thread. If you find friendship, laughter, support, and "light hearted" fun offensive......well then I would have to assume you're missing out on some of the simple pleasures in life.....and for that I'm truelly sorry.

As I noted I think I contributed twice to the tickle my elbow thread, it might be 3x ?

My pleasures are not your pleasures.

One of the biggest pleasures I get from this board is when people pm me saying thank-you.

I have to constantly delete my inbox because of this and although that's annoying I get great pleasure from people just saying a simple thanks....

(Please don't flood me)

Anyway, do you realise that I have never done freefall parachuting, I am not qualifed to fly a helicopter or passenger jet and even my PPL has lapsed... I have never been a father (or I'm pretty certain) and never felt the joy of picking up my child.

I have never been to Lake Titicaca somethig that has facsinated me since 4-5 yrs old and where I have always wanted to go.

I spent most of my 20's living in Africa somewhere I never wanted to go and missing out on a normal social life or as close as my character allows me to get.

Honestly, I could go on and on.

The point is we make assumptions of people all the time ....

We make first impressions, we look at peoples actions and largely we look at how they define themselves. (especially I focus on the latter)

We also all make incorrect assumptions based on the above....

I made an incorrect assumption based on the title of the thread, I'm just pointing out why someone who had chosen not to read this thread would have made that assumption

Anyways....I think you have went WAY off topic because THIS thread is about Enterolab....and whether or not it is a useful lab for diagnostic purposes.

Very true......

[Nancym]

To me the interesting part is which genes you have. DQ1 genes are associated with the brain issues, DQ2/8 the intestinal symptoms. It is just interesting but overall not all that valuable.