Soy Sensitive

[ElenaDragon]

For those of you who are sensitive to soy, are there any forms of soy which are more tolerable than others? Tofu, soy milk, soy sauce, etc? I know I react to concentrated soy protein, but seem to do okay with items with soy lecithin in them. I'm wondering if maybe I can tolerate any other forms of soy as well.

[burdee]

For those of you who are sensitive to soy, are there any forms of soy which are more tolerable than others? Tofu, soy milk, soy sauce, etc? I know I react to concentrated soy protein, but seem to do okay with items with soy lecithin in them. I'm wondering if maybe I can tolerate any other forms of soy as well.

I suspect soy sensitivity varies from individual to individual. I first noticed soy sensitivity when I tried to substitute soy for dairy products, after Enterolab tests showed casein sensitivity. I react to ALL forms of soy (flour, tofu, sauce, lecithin, etc.) with cramping pains, bloating, gas, fatigue and nausea for 5-7 days after even minute amounts. I took the Elab soy, egg and yeast test and showed a positive reaction to soy protein. After several people told me I could tolerate soy lecithin, I asked Enterolab. They said I should avoid soy from any sources, even lecithin.

I recently ate 1/2 cup of a flax cereal which is processed in a factory which also processes soy. Here we go again ... the first day I had bloating and gas all day. The next day I felt like someone was squeezing my intestines and I started passing mucous, but felt constipated. Today I AM constipated and feel like I have bad menstrual cramps. However I went through menopause 10 years ago. My soy reactions are a mixture of my dairy and gluten symptoms, not as intense or long lasting, but I still feel awful for at least a week. Also the longer I abstain from soy, the more intense and long lasting my reactions from even a tiny bit of soy contamination. Maybe other people can tolerate some forms of soy, but not me!

BURDEE

[hathor]

I suspect soy sensitivity varies from individual to individual. ... After several people told me I could tolerate soy lecithin, I asked Enterolab. They said I should avoid soy from any sources, even lecithin.

Well, isn't that interesting. When I asked Enterolab what I had to avoid given my test result, they emailed me back and told me that soy lecithin should be OK but everything else was off-limits So I've been merrily eating things with soy lecithin. (For "things," you can pretty much say "dark chocolate" and not be far off )

I don't have any major reactions to soy, that I know of. However, I am menopausal now (1 year mark right about now in fact) and I really suffer from hot flashes/night sweats. I wonder if this is related to the soy I'm still getting. The only thing I've noticed from cutting out the soy I have cut out is that my complexion is better.

I'm rather peeved that the advice they are giving is inconsistent. They told me what they told me in February. When did you get your advice, burdee?

In my attempts to research soy online, what I find is related to soy allergies, which are somewhat different. But some of those sources say folks MAY be able to tolerate soy lecithin and certain kinds of soybean oil (can't remember which -- not that labels ever tell you so the advice is meaningless). But then I've heard folks relate that they react dramatically to even slight amounts.

Sigh. I guess I should avoid soy lecithin and see how I do.

[burdee]

Well, isn't that interesting. When I asked Enterolab what I had to avoid given my test result, they emailed me back and told me that soy lecithin should be OK but everything else was off-limits So I've been merrily eating things with soy lecithin. (For "things," you can pretty much say "dark chocolate" and not be far off )

I don't have any major reactions to soy, that I know of. However, I am menopausal now (1 year mark right about now in fact) and I really suffer from hot flashes/night sweats. I wonder if this is related to the soy I'm still getting. The only thing I've noticed from cutting out the soy I have cut out is that my complexion is better.

I'm rather peeved that the advice they are giving is inconsistent. They told me what they told me in February. When did you get your advice, burdee?

In my attempts to research soy online, what I find is related to soy allergies, which are somewhat different. But some of those sources say folks MAY be able to tolerate soy lecithin and certain kinds of soybean oil (can't remember which -- not that labels ever tell you so the advice is meaningless). But then I've heard folks relate that they react dramatically to even slight amounts.

Sigh. I guess I should avoid soy lecithin and see how I do.

Here's the response from Enterolab which I received on August 8 (including my inquiry to them):

Your Question: I took the Enterolab egg, soy and yeast test a year ago. My test results indicated I have soy sensitivity. Does that include soy lecithin as well as all the soy protein food source? I obviously react to soy, but I'm uncertain whether I react to soy lecithin. Should I also avoid soy lecithin? Thanks for any info you can provide.

Response: Dear Sue, Since this is a derivative of the soy bean, we advise that you do not include soy lecithin in your diet as you may react adversely to it. Thank you, Alexis Carreon EnteroLab Customer Service

******

I'm sorry their response to you was inconsistent. What did you ask them? Who at Elab answered your inquiry? Perhaps you might inquire about their inconsistent replies. I'm happy with what they told me, because I DO react to even tiny amounts of soy lecithin. I'm not happy about reacting to chocolate with soy lecithin, but I prefer to feel well than to enjoy foods which cause me pain.

BURDEE

[Mango04]

Soy flour is the worst

Anything that says "soy protein" is the next worst

Lecithin I can get away with in small amounts

I avoid soy sauce, but could probably tolerate small amounts if I really wanted to

[ElenaDragon]

I used to eat tofu and other stuff made from soy all the time before my intestinal issues started (I was a vegetarian). Once my problems started getting worse, I began to look at food intolerances. I noticed that stuff with soy protein in it (like veggie burgers and soy protein powder) quickly gave me migraines and made me lethargic. I think that soy may have been giving me gas too, but it seemed like everything did that. So I don't know if I'm actually intolerant to soy or if it just gives me migraines in large amounts. At some point I'd like to try forms of soy that may be more tolerable than others.

[burdee]

Soy flour is the worst

Anything that says "soy protein" is the next worst

Lecithin I can get away with in small amounts

I avoid soy sauce, but could probably tolerate small amounts if I really wanted to

Why would you want to 'get away with' or 'probably tolerate' something which causes symptoms in larger amounts and probably damages your intestines?

BURDEE

[Mango04]

Why would you want to 'get away with' or 'probably tolerate' something which causes symptoms in larger amounts and probably damages your intestines?

BURDEE

I was just ranking forms of soy in terms of the severity of my symptoms. It is possible that symptoms and reactions in the body vary drastically depending on the type of soy consumed, and the way the soy is prepared and/or processed. One thing fermetation does, for example, is make certain foods easier to digest. Hence, I believe I could 'possibly getting away with' small amounts of soy sauce. (Oh, also, I don't usually react to small amounts of soy sauce). I avoid it anyway.

Lecithin has been reported safe by many major food allergy associations. It does not make my throat swell, nor does it give me any gastro symptoms. Other forms of soy do give me such symptoms. I really truly believe that lecithin does not harm me.

I forgot to mention soy oil. Soy oil in certain products does not bother me either. In my case, the protein seems to be the problem. I think this would be similiar to a person with a casein intolerance being able to tolerate ghee.

My intestines are in pretty good shape right now, and the decisions I've made about soy have been very carefully thought out. Of course they are personal and don't apply to everyone, but since someone asked if certain forms of soy are more tolerable than others, I have to answer, yes definitely (at least for me )

[hathor]

I'm sorry their response to you was inconsistent. What did you ask them? Who at Elab answered your inquiry? Perhaps you might inquire about their inconsistent replies.

I don't have the original email, but I quote it in a February 20th post on another forum, where I said I just had received the response. So it was that day or the previous one, probably.

My questions and their responses:

"Your Question: Some questions for you, given my results: 1. Do you have any lists of what to avoid with soy and yeast sensitivities? Any other useful information? 2. After no gluten for a time, might I tolerate these other items someday? 3. Will tiny amounts of soy and yeast (and milk and egg) hurt me, the same way that a little gluten would? 4. What is the margin of error on the test results? E.g., my yeast result is only 11; might I not have a problem with it? I haven't noticed any in the past.

Response: Dear Diane, We do not have lists of foods to avoid, but you will want to watch ingredient labels containing baker's or brewer's yeast and anything with the word "soy" in it. The only ingredient with "soy" in it that seems to be ok as far as we can tell is soy lecithin. Though the severity of your sensitivities can change depending upon the health of your immune system and other factors, the reaction will never really go away. The only way to control it is through elimination of the offending foods from the diet. The severity of each of your sensitivities can be different, so it is difficult to say how much a little would affect you. Less is good, but none is best in this situation. If the result is 10 or above, the sensitivity exists, though again the severity can vary among differing reactions. Your reaction can change as your health and body changes, but it never really goes away. Even if you are able to bring the IgA antibody counts down into the normal range at some point, once you reintroduced the foods into the diet, the antibody production would soon start up again. Sincerely, Phyllis Zermeno, RN, BSN Clinical Manager"

I don't know if it makes any difference that we are talking about your customer service person versus an RN. But since some people obviously DO react, I am beginning to question the advice. I think I am going to email them and see what's up.

[hathor]

Email sent. I'll let you know what I hear back.

I do hate their form. You are limited to a certain number of characters and I always have to revise and revise to get under the limit. I guess I have a problem being succinct

[burdee]

I forgot to mention soy oil. Soy oil in certain products does not bother me either. In my case, the protein seems to be the problem. I think this would be similiar to a person with a casein intolerance being able to tolerate ghee.

My intestines are in pretty good shape right now, and the decisions I've made about soy have been very carefully thought out. Of course they are personal and don't apply to everyone, but since someone asked if certain forms of soy are more tolerable than others, I have to answer, yes definitely (at least for me )

Sorry ... no offense intended. Those questions came from the very sick part of me which is still reacting to a miniscule amount of soy in a cereal processed in a factory which also processes soy. Of course I also took a chance when I ate 1/2 cup of that cereal, but that's a pretty reliable company ... obviously they don't check for soy cross-contamination, although they check for gluten ....

BTW I was advised to not consume any ghee, because that still might have minute amounts of casein protein. I'm just very sensitive and get VERY sick with any cross contamination.

BURDEE

[burdee]

I don't have the original email, but I quote it in a February 20th post on another forum, where I said I just had received the response. So it was that day or the previous one, probably.

My questions and their responses:

"Your Question: Some questions for you, given my results: 1. Do you have any lists of what to avoid with soy and yeast sensitivities? Any other useful information? 2. After no gluten for a time, might I tolerate these other items someday? 3. Will tiny amounts of soy and yeast (and milk and egg) hurt me, the same way that a little gluten would? 4. What is the margin of error on the test results? E.g., my yeast result is only 11; might I not have a problem with it? I haven't noticed any in the past.

Response: Dear Diane, We do not have lists of foods to avoid, but you will want to watch ingredient labels containing baker's or brewer's yeast and anything with the word "soy" in it. The only ingredient with "soy" in it that seems to be ok as far as we can tell is soy lecithin. Though the severity of your sensitivities can change depending upon the health of your immune system and other factors, the reaction will never really go away. The only way to control it is through elimination of the offending foods from the diet. The severity of each of your sensitivities can be different, so it is difficult to say how much a little would affect you. Less is good, but none is best in this situation. If the result is 10 or above, the sensitivity exists, though again the severity can vary among differing reactions. Your reaction can change as your health and body changes, but it never really goes away. Even if you are able to bring the IgA antibody counts down into the normal range at some point, once you reintroduced the foods into the diet, the antibody production would soon start up again. Sincerely, Phyllis Zermeno, RN, BSN Clinical Manager"

I don't know if it makes any difference that we are talking about your customer service person versus an RN. But since some people obviously DO react, I am beginning to question the advice. I think I am going to email them and see what's up.

Hmmm .... Phyllis has been with Elab a long time and certainly knows her stuff. I wonder if 6 months (I asked my question in August but you asked yours back in February) made any difference in Elab's policy or recommendations about soy. Maybe my question was different enough that I got a different response. Phyllis did say "Even if you are able to bring the IgA antibody counts down into the normal range at some point, once you reintroduced the foods into the diet, the antibody production would soon start up again." That seems consistent with avoiding soy ... We'll see what they say in response to your last inquiry ...

BURDEE

[Mango04]

BTW I was advised to not consume any ghee, because that still might have minute amounts of casein protein. I'm just very sensitive and get VERY sick with any cross contamination.

BURDEE

LOL, honestly, I would never touch ghee, so maybe my whole reasoning regarding soy doesn't make sense. For some reason I'm way less afraid of soy than I am of dairy and gluten. It's all very strange....

[hathor]

Oh, let's not get me worrying about ghee now. I had read that was safe I don't cook with it because I think it looks gross. But I go to Indian restaurants and don't worry. Should I? Maybe I don't want to know. Is it even possible to get something in an Indian restaurant that doesn't have ghee in it?

Anywho, I got the following response back from Enterolab about the contradictory soy lecithin advice:

"Dear Diane, I apologize that Alexis gave this information to the "someone else" you have mentioned. Normally, we will tell our patients exactly what Alexis did in every case of a product containing a protein that you may have a sensitivity to, but Alexis was apparently unaware that soy lecithin is the only ingredient that we feel may be "ok" in the situation of a soy sensitivity. This would be entirely my error, as I apparently did not convey this information to Alexis prior to her answering our contact correspondence. Again, however, this is only as far as we can tell. We do not have scientific evidence that there is not enough soy protein in soy lecithin to cause a problem. It is just the general consensus among the nutritionists I have spoken with about this matter. Please accept my most humble apology for the discrepancy in information. Regards, Phyllis Zermeno, RN, BSN Clinical Manager"

So .... I don't know if I'm comfortable with just a general consensus or not, since obviously there are those who DO react to lecithin. I guess I will suck it up and avoid the substance for awhile and see how I feel.

[burdee]

Oh, let's not get me worrying about ghee now. I had read that was safe I don't cook with it because I think it looks gross. But I go to Indian restaurants and don't worry. Should I? Maybe I don't want to know. Is it even possible to get something in an Indian restaurant that doesn't have ghee in it?

Anywho, I got the following response back from Enterolab about the contradictory soy lecithin advice:

"Dear Diane, I apologize that Alexis gave this information to the "someone else" you have mentioned. Normally, we will tell our patients exactly what Alexis did in every case of a product containing a protein that you may have a sensitivity to, but Alexis was apparently unaware that soy lecithin is the only ingredient that we feel may be "ok" in the situation of a soy sensitivity. This would be entirely my error, as I apparently did not convey this information to Alexis prior to her answering our contact correspondence. Again, however, this is only as far as we can tell. We do not have scientific evidence that there is not enough soy protein in soy lecithin to cause a problem. It is just the general consensus among the nutritionists I have spoken with about this matter. Please accept my most humble apology for the discrepancy in information. Regards, Phyllis Zermeno, RN, BSN Clinical Manager"

So .... I don't know if I'm comfortable with just a general consensus or not, since obviously there are those who DO react to lecithin. I guess I will suck it up and avoid the substance for awhile and see how I feel.

I've never tried ghee, but my lab test results included a guide for which foods contained my allergens. Ghee was listed under dairy. I get so sick from tiny amounts of dairy that I didn't want to risk it.

Don't decide your soy sensitivity on my experience. I'm super sensitive to ANY form of soy contamination. My soy reaction symptoms are stronger and last longer with every new incident, especially after I abstain for a few months or weeks. However I freely eat any foods to which I had no or low reactions on allergy tests and I don't have any symptoms. I think the 'don't have any symptoms' is the key here.

BURDEE

[Mango04]

Oh, let's not get me worrying about ghee now. I had read that was safe I don't cook with it because I think it looks gross. But I go to Indian restaurants and don't worry. Should I? Maybe I don't want to know. Is it even possible to get something in an Indian restaurant that doesn't have ghee in it?

So .... I don't know if I'm comfortable with just a general consensus or not, since obviously there are those who DO react to lecithin. I guess I will suck it up and avoid the substance for awhile and see how I feel.

I think the fact that some do react and others don't is just an indication that people have different levels of soy sensitivity, or maybe some people react to the protein and others react to something else? I don't know but I think if you tried lecithin you'd know if it was a problem or not.

I think I've trained myself to be disgusted by all forms of dairy LOL, but I don't think you should worry about the Indian food, unless you're still experiencing symptoms and can't figure out why. The ghee is probably fine for some people though. JMHO

[hathor]

The problem is that my symptoms with soy are very subtle. I never suspected a problem until the results of the Enterolab test came back, I cut out soy, and then saw how I felt. According to the book Food Allergy Survival Guide: "Fortunately, soy rarely causes anaphylaxis; but unfortunately, people with soy allergy or intolerance may suffer from varying degrees of asthma, stuffy nose, intestinal inflammation and discomfort, and skin reactions. Because symptoms may be mild (but aggravating nonetheless), it is possible to go for years without realizing that soy is the root of poor health."

This explains me. Believe me, if I got real sick whenever I ate something, I think I could figure it out. When I gave up soy (except for the lecithin ), I noticed that my hot flashes got a little better, my nose was a little less stuffy, and my complexion got better. Actually, if it weren't for the complexion change I would have doubted whether I had a soy reaction at all. One time I started a new supplement and after a couple days I saw some zits. I contact the company and, sure enough, the stuff had soy in it.

So, I do wonder if my hot flashes will completely go away if I don't have soy in any form.

What I really don't know how to handle at all is yeast. I supposedly react to that, but I haven't noticed a difference whether I have it or not. Plus my score is right at the edge.

[Merika]

Hathor,

nestle chocolatier makes delicious dark chocolate the old fasioned way - with cocoa butter, NOT soy lecithin. it's a relatively new product and can be found in most major grocery stores next to the regular nestle chocolate baking chips.

Merika

[hathor]

Thanks for the suggestion, merika. If Nestle ever cleans up its act as regards child labor, perhaps I will buy some. Right now, they and a number of other manufacturers are on my boycott list. See, e.g., Open Original Shared Link and the link for rating different companies.

I know this isn't the forum for debating political issues. I just provide the link for anyone who isn't aware of the issue. It is up to each of us to make up our own mind, of course.

[Sugarmag]

I can not tolerate any soy at all. Even a tiny bit of soy lecithin makes me break out in a rash, sometimes with hives, as well as very unhappy belly. Soy is in everything, in my opinion, it's much worse than dealing with gluten sensitivity. But now that I haven't knowingly had soy for 4 months now, it's amazing how great I feel! (I've had it accidentally a few times, with cc, or just a bad server at a restaurant. Each time I got sick, and got a rash, and was able to trace it back to something with soy.)

Try this brand for chocolate, it's my favorite! Open Original Shared Link

(Make sure to goto the FAQ page, it will tell you which are soy, gluten, dairy free.)

Open Original Shared Link that's my second choice

[hathor]

Ooh, those chocolates look good. I'll have to see if I can find a place locally where I can go and buy a single bar. I really don't think I can trust myself to order chocolate in bulk

It is tough to avoid soy. Soybean oil must be particularly cheap or something. Or the protein gets added to an otherwise fine food.

This reminds me. I had an adverse reaction to a gluten-free pasta from Europe that contained lupin flour. I discover later that it is a legume and many folks who react to peanut and/or soy react to it. Lupin flour is apparently the new soy for food manufacturers in Europe. I think the European Union rules now put it on their hot list of allergens that have to be labeled.

Just to let folks know

Do any of you soy sensitive folks react to any other legumes? As a strict vegetarian, I eat a lot of legumes, but I haven't noticed a problem. But then, I didn't notice a problem with soy, either. But maybe all the engineering that soy has undergone is what makes me sensitive to it. I used to eat a lot of fake meats made with isolated soy protein. Oh, if I could go back in time and not do that I know now how unhealthy that stuff is. I wonder if having the bare protein is what triggered my problem?

I don't react to peanuts that I can tell. I do get sick if I have too much peanut butter, but I always assumed that was the fat content.

[Sugarmag]

Hmm...that's a good question! I guess I haven't really had any other legumes very much. I also think once I cut out soy, well, I've been too scared to try em! I don't remember reacting to them a while back, but I didn't know it was soy I was reacting to back then either; like what you went through. I'd just keep a close eye on it if you do have them, and see how you feel.

As for the chocolate....YUMMY!! I buy mine at Wild Oats, and I'm sure a lot of health food stores have them. I am pretty sure there is a link on the sites for where to buy them in your area. (I truly do not trust myself with a case of it either!) Enjoy!