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I Have Been Turned Upside-down!


silly celiac

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silly celiac Rookie

I have classic celiac symptoms related to bowel movements, as well as dh. I requested the celiac blood test. One part of it came up positive, the other not. My family doctor told me to go gluten-free for six weeks to see how it worked for me and then I could do the biopsy if I choose. That was at the end of July.

I went to the gastoenterologist today for the first time. I wanted to do the biopsy to confirm the celiac (not that there was any doubt!) and to see how bad the damage is.

I did NOT expect what happened when I was there.

The doc asked why I thought I had celiac disease. I told him my symptoms (gut and skin symptoms)... he is acting doubtful through the whole thing, telling me how I haven't lost weight and I'm not anemic, so it might not be celiac, and celiac is extremely rare, etc.... I mention the blood test. He said I tested negative. I said I tested negative for one of the things, but the other indicated celiac (thus another reason for a biopsy confirmation). He told me both tested negative.

The numbers weren't even close!

Yet, my family doctor had called me in for an appointment to discuss the test results and to talk about going gluten-free and starting the whole celiac lifestyle... this doc today showed me the results- the numbers were there, clearly low, but someone has circled the word "positive" for the IgA... thus, I have been believing since July that I have celiac disease!!!!!

So this guy is convinced that it's not celiac. I'm just in shock. He explains that it may be a gluten intolerance, in which case I would still need to be gluten free, but it is not likely celiac. I can't even speak. Especially because the next thing we talk about is doing the biopsy to see if indeed there is any damage. But he wants me to be back on gluten for that, so that there is no doubt at all.

That is the point where I lost it. I am so scared to go back to gluten because of the difference I have felt so far from being off of it. I just fell apart right there. Poor guy didn't know what to do, but there was nothing I could do to stop it. It was worse than being told that I do have celiac disease because at least then I had had some time to get comfortable with that possibility before being told that I had it. This just blindsided me. I just felt this absolute emptiness because now there's a chance that all of this effort and emotions in going gluten-free has been for nothing. Although to be honest, I'm not believing this.

So now I've been set free from my cage into a world of food possibilities, needing to eat gluten so it can show up on the biopsy if it really is doing anything to me. This is much more intimidating than going gluten-free, because I KNOW what the result of every glutening will be!!!

But I went out and enjoyed a sandwich for lunch at a restaurant that serves wonderful bread with your meals. It was delicious. I check the time when I left. 1:15. I went to Goodwill to shop for clothes. The headache came at 1:55. At 2:15, I got gassy. 2:20, I was in the bathroom. Now I feel like crap. And to think that I need to keep this up until the biopsy... I told the nurse before I left that I didn't know if I could handle eating "normal" again for these couple of weeks... she said to call if it got bad.

The big joke of all this is that I went to the dietician right before all this. She said I was doing great, and that I'm doing better than most at this stage in the game.

I'm just really frustrated right now. That's about all I can say. Back to reglutening now, I suppose....


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gfmolly Contributor

What an emotional rollercoaster! It is certainly up to you to do what you need to do for yourself, but I am personally in a similar situation and have decided to not go through with the biopsies because my response to the diet has been great! When I do get glutened, it is horrible and within one hour I am in the bathroom and it takes at least a week to get it out of my system. The way I look at it is whether I am gluten intolerant or celiac, the end result is the same- a gluten free diet. It is such an individual and personal decision.

I think we think we need affirmation from medical tests that tell us what we have because that is how many things are done, but we really need to listen to our bodies.

Hugs to you and best wishes as you decide what to do.

ravenwoodglass Mentor

You have already done the most valuable for sure diagnostic process for gluten sensitivity that you can do. Whether you are celiac or gluten intolerant is really of no importance IMHO. You know that gluten is a toxin for you. It is possible even if you poison yourself for up to 2 months to still end up with a negative biopsy, whydo you want to do that to yourself? Gluten intolerance is just as debilitating as true 'your villi are gone' celiac and can cause just as much damage to your body. The treatment is the same, a gluten free diet. I would personally just say thanks but no thanks to the GI doctors insistance that you biopsy. Ask yourself if you will go back to gluten eating if the biopsy is not conclusive, if the answer is no then why put yourself through the torture, expense and possible risks involved with an invasive procedure.

Ursa Major Collaborator

I totally agree with the two previous responses. This is just ridiculous. After six weeks gluten-free, eating gluten for two weeks will not likely result in a positive biopsy, even if originally you had blunted villi.

You would need to eat gluten for at least three months to have a chance of an accurate biopsy at this stage (and it may still be a false negative). Meaning, you would undo any healing that has happened, and possibly destroy your villi again, which could result in permanent damage and might trigger other autoimmune diseases.

Not a good option, if you ask me. At this point, all you can really do is get back to eating gluten-free and forget about ignorant doctors. You know you can't tolerate gluten, it makes you ill. You feel better gluten-free. You don't need any doctor to 'allow' or 'order' you to eat or not eat gluten. It is your decision alone.

You can still do the Open Original Shared Link testing, if you can afford it, as it is accurate up to a year after going gluten-free. It still won't tell you if you have celiac disease or gluten intolerance, but you can find out what your genes are, and what your levels are, as well as whether you have malabsorption issues.

newlyfree Rookie

So sorry to hear about the rollercoaster you're on!

Question - you mentioned you have DH, have you gotten that biopsied? I've heard that if you have confirmed DH, you have celiac (you can have Celiac without DH, but can't have DH without Celiac). I think if you can get a real confirmation on that, you wouldn't need an endoscopic biopsy at all.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :)

silly celiac Rookie
So sorry to hear about the rollercoaster you're on!

Question - you mentioned you have DH, have you gotten that biopsied? I've heard that if you have confirmed DH, you have celiac (you can have Celiac without DH, but can't have DH without Celiac). I think if you can get a real confirmation on that, you wouldn't need an endoscopic biopsy at all.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :)

No, I have not gotten confirmation on that, although that's where my journey started! I've had these "blister-zits," as I called them, for years (hmm... dating back to that summer 10 years ago when I developed a "stress-related digestive disorder" and lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time and it hurt to eat...). Anyhow, on a whim one day I looked up "skin blisters" on the internet, and lo and behold there's a perfect description of them and it even says they tend to be on the elbows- I get them on my hands and elbows, and this spring, they were bridging the gap between them on my forearms. I get a few strays on my feet or knees, but the real nuisance ones are on my elbows and hands. SO I saw that there is a real name for this thing that I have and that it just so happens to be related to this digestive thing called celiac... which sounded a lot like my bowel habits. I had wondered if it was IBS, and I knew certain foods were triggers (but with a hamburger- is it the bun, the burger, or how long it sat under the lamp??), but I knew nothing about celiac. The more I've learned, the more it seemed to fit- well, except that I can't lose ANY weight! :) That's part of why today was so hard for me- going gluten-free has had a positive impact (although I do not feel back to "normal" yet) and suddenly everything in my life up to now makes a little more sense. And now maybe this isn't the reason?? Plus, I was just scared to go back to gluten. But yeah, I requested that blood test orginally because of the dh.

EBsMom Apprentice

If you have an active DH eruption, why not get a skin biopsy rather than a gut biopsy? I read Dr. Peter Green's book "Celiac Disease: A Hidden Epidemic" a couple of months ago. Dr. Green is recognized as being one of the leaders in the field and he said, right there in black and white, that if you have DH you have celiac disease. Personally, if I felt as bad as you do after eating that little bit of gluten, I would not keep eating it. You know that gluten makes you sick and you know that you feel better without it....that's really the point, right there! Good luck to you!

Rho


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CMCM Rising Star

I think I'll start with a huge SIGH!!! :( :( :(

If your doctor thinks to have celiac you MUST have lost weight....well, that comment just demonstrates the modest limits of his overall understanding of celiac disease....he obviously doesn't know the fact that NOT ALL CELIACS LOSE WEIGHT!!! Some, maybe MANY, gain weight. Your doctor is apparently looking only for the textbook, classic celiac (which is actually the rarest type!!). Most celiacs don't fit the classic celiac profile. We now know that celiac disease manifests in many different ways!

Your doctors also don't understand the idea that you can be gluten sensitive with most of the same unpleasant reactions as you would with active celiac disease. They also don't seem to understand that you can suffer with gluten sensitivity reactions, and that IF you have the celiac gene at some point celiac disease may be triggered and things can at that point progress into very serious reactions. Some people go their entire lives with the celiac gene, perhaps certain limited gluten sensitivity symptoms, but never progress to celiac disease. My grandmother was in this category....she lived to age 99, but in retrospect we all realize she had a bunch of sensitivity symptoms including severe arthritis the last 20 years of her life. My mom, on the other hand, probably had mild gluten sensitivity symptoms until the age of about 43, when active celiac disease was triggered immediately after a hysterectomy, and boy did she get sick then,with all the classic celiac symptoms including severe malabsorption and weight loss.

So you can have the celiac gene but NOT YET HAVE CELIAC DISEASE. This is something your doctors, with their rather outdated knowledge, will not be able to determine with the various tests they want to do. They are looking for celiac disease, nothing more. If you have gluten sensitivity symptoms, these cannot be adequately measured on tests used for celiac disease. They will tell you that you don't have celiac, so nothing is going on. This is because they are always looking for the worst case scenario, for the most extreme example, which is active celiac disease. But you can have gluten sensitivity reactions for years and years, and you can do damage to your body by continuing to eat gluten even though you don't yet have celiac disease.

What to do? Find out if you have the celiac gene!

I really suggest that you at the very least spend $169 for the Enterolab gene test to find out if you have the celiac gene, and you will then know what your genetic potential is. Because if you have the celiac gene, and you have gluten sensitivity symptoms, you still need to stop eating gluten. And you need to be watchful in case celiac disease is triggered at some point in your life.

The idea of deliberately damaging yourself in order to get a particular test result is ridiculous. Keep in mind that celiac disease can only exist IF YOU ARE EATING GLUTEN!!! If you stop eating gluten, celiac disease goes away and then you only have the POTENTIAL for getting it again (if you eat gluten!!).

In my case, I never got a positive celiac blood test so obviously I didn't have celiac disease. I did the gene test and found out I have the gene, and therefore the predisposition. I get sick from eating gluten, and gluten gives me painful joint aches. This stuff all goes away if I eliminate gluten. So the writing on the wall is clear: I feel better eating gluten, and if I don't eat it, I'll never get full blown celiac disease.

Read a lot of books---start with "Dangerous Grains". There are many others....check out Amazon and key in a search for celiac disease. And finally, don't fool yourself into thinking your doctor knows it all. In fact, what most doctors kinow about celiac disease would fit on the head of a pin. Really! :rolleyes:

I have classic celiac symptoms related to bowel movements, as well as dh. I requested the celiac blood test. One part of it came up positive, the other not. My family doctor told me to go gluten-free for six weeks to see how it worked for me and then I could do the biopsy if I choose. That was at the end of July.

I went to the gastoenterologist today for the first time. I wanted to do the biopsy to confirm the celiac (not that there was any doubt!) and to see how bad the damage is.

I did NOT expect what happened when I was there.

The doc asked why I thought I had celiac disease. I told him my symptoms (gut and skin symptoms)... he is acting doubtful through the whole thing, telling me how I haven't lost weight and I'm not anemic, so it might not be celiac, and celiac is extremely rare, etc.... I mention the blood test. He said I tested negative. I said I tested negative for one of the things, but the other indicated celiac (thus another reason for a biopsy confirmation). He told me both tested negative.

The numbers weren't even close!

Yet, my family doctor had called me in for an appointment to discuss the test results and to talk about going gluten-free and starting the whole celiac lifestyle... this doc today showed me the results- the numbers were there, clearly low, but someone has circled the word "positive" for the IgA... thus, I have been believing since July that I have celiac disease!!!!!

So this guy is convinced that it's not celiac. I'm just in shock. He explains that it may be a gluten intolerance, in which case I would still need to be gluten free, but it is not likely celiac. I can't even speak. Especially because the next thing we talk about is doing the biopsy to see if indeed there is any damage. But he wants me to be back on gluten for that, so that there is no doubt at all.

That is the point where I lost it. I am so scared to go back to gluten because of the difference I have felt so far from being off of it. I just fell apart right there. Poor guy didn't know what to do, but there was nothing I could do to stop it. It was worse than being told that I do have celiac disease because at least then I had had some time to get comfortable with that possibility before being told that I had it. This just blindsided me. I just felt this absolute emptiness because now there's a chance that all of this effort and emotions in going gluten-free has been for nothing. Although to be honest, I'm not believing this.

So now I've been set free from my cage into a world of food possibilities, needing to eat gluten so it can show up on the biopsy if it really is doing anything to me. This is much more intimidating than going gluten-free, because I KNOW what the result of every glutening will be!!!

But I went out and enjoyed a sandwich for lunch at a restaurant that serves wonderful bread with your meals. It was delicious. I check the time when I left. 1:15. I went to Goodwill to shop for clothes. The headache came at 1:55. At 2:15, I got gassy. 2:20, I was in the bathroom. Now I feel like crap. And to think that I need to keep this up until the biopsy... I told the nurse before I left that I didn't know if I could handle eating "normal" again for these couple of weeks... she said to call if it got bad.

The big joke of all this is that I went to the dietician right before all this. She said I was doing great, and that I'm doing better than most at this stage in the game.

I'm just really frustrated right now. That's about all I can say. Back to reglutening now, I suppose....

Katydid Apprentice

After reading all these posts, now I'm a little confused. I always thought celiac disease and gluten sensitivity were two very distinct and different conditions.

I never knew that gluten sensitivity could be a precursor to celiac disease.

I am especially interested in this as I have a 40 year old daughter who tested negative on the blood tests a month ago and negative biopsy 10 years ago; but has a few symptoms. ie extreme fatigue, reflux, depression, sleep disorders, brain fog, severe dental problems (to the point that even her dental work falls out) very outragrous burping, ADD and some bloating. She does not exhibit the classic weight loss and D however. At my encouragement, she tried the gluten-free diet short term for one month but didn't see any improvement. Frankly, I didn't feel that was long enough given that things like depression and ADD are not overnight fixes

In view of the fact that her grandmother, her father and her daughter all have celiac, I am wondering if she should have the Enterolab tests.

Which leads me to my question. If she were to test positive for gluten sensitivity and if she were found to have the celiac gene, does this mean she should be on a gluten free diet?

And am I understanding these posts correctly..... that gluten sensitivity untreated can develop into full blown celiac.

Help please, any advice would be tremendously appreciated.

Thanks

Kay

horsegirl Enthusiast

I had a similar experience to yours, in that I had been gluten free for about 5 months before I learned about Celiac disease. So, at my primary doc's suggestion, I went back on gluten to get the blood tests done through Prometheus. Well, no surprise, they were negative since I was only on gluten about 2 weeks when they were done. I continued eating gluten for 6 weeks, & then had the biopsy done - again, all normal. During those 6 weeks, my health declined to the point where I didn't think I could continue eating gluten, because I was being poisoned (I get severe neurological symptoms as well as joint pain from gluten, as well as depression). I did have the Enterolab tests done, which all were positive for gluten intolerance. So, the GI doc is calling it "non-Celiac gluten intolerance", but obviously the treatment is the same - strict gluten-free diet. With how sick I got during the 6-week gluten trial, not eating it now is a welcome relief from all those symptoms.

I can live with not having a "Celiac" label; I KNOW how toxic gluten is to my body.

You have a tough decision ahead of you, but most importantly, you need to listen to your body, not what all those medical tests can tell you.

Good luck & keep us posted on what happens!

aikiducky Apprentice

To the original poster - I would second the idea of getting a biopsy of your rash/blisters, if you still have them. Try to find a dermatologist who is familiar with dermatitis herpetiformis because the skin biopsy has to be done a certain way to be accurate. If you have DH there's no doubt or question, you have celiac, need to be gluten free, and you don't need to look for further testing for confirmation.

Pauliina

silly celiac Rookie

Questions...

I don't know about anybody else with dh, but for me, I get relief sooner by breaking them open. This helps them from getting bigger, too, in addition to releasing some of the itch. If I did get a skin biopsy, would it have to be an unopened blister? And then there's the matter of actually trying to plan for one to show up... And you know, last week, they were really bad. I finally gave in and switched from the shampoo that I've used for 15 years that has wheat amino acids in it, and I haven't had a blister since. Granted, it was only last weekend that I switched, but still...

Do you think I'd have to have another referral from my doctor to get in to a derm? With my family doc misinterpreting test results and the GI doc telling me I'm not celiac because I'm fat (okay, sarcastic twist on his words!) and because it's so extremely rare (and I'm not anemic and I have no diagnosed family, etc., etc.), I'm quickly losing faith in these people being able to know enough to do what's best.

For the stool tests from Enterolab... you'd have to be glutening for those, right?

And the gene test (seems like the least painful and most direct route to me right now)... anybody ever manage to get that done through their family doc, or is everybody going through Enterolab for it?

And I'm seeming to hear a consensus that two weeks back on gluten after 6-7 weeks off is not likely to give me enough damage to show up on a biopsy...? I'm willing to attempt the journey back to pizza for this period if it would actually work... maybe. I already find myself planning these glutenings for at home after work so I make it through the day easier (she says as she snacks on Glutino pretzels).

And I don't know about the rest of you, but before getting this (mis?)diagnosis of celiac, I was regarded as being somewhat hypochondriac because I often had something wrong with no good explanation (all of which made complete sense when viewed through the lense of celiac. which was comforting to finally know that I wasn't just crazy!)... it would be nice to somehow get some sort of confirmation so that I don't become the stubborn hypochondriac who doesn't even believe blood tests! And it will be easier for friends and family to respect my being gluten free if it's for more reason than just because I thought it might make me feel good.

I'm still in shock, really, over being told that I am not celiac.

Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts, and I welcome anything else that could help me. I'm just quite overwhelmed with all of this right now!!!!

Ursa Major Collaborator

No, for the Enterolab tests you do NOT have to eat gluten. They are accurate for about a year after you stop eating gluten.

You are not a hypochondriac. A lot of us were considered hypochondriacs before figuring out the gluten connection. If the doctors are too dumb to figure it out, it must all be in our head, right? Wrong! They are the ones with the problem if they keep misdiagnosing people with celiac disease.

Really, seriously, two weeks back on gluten is not enough to guarantee an accurate biopsy. Don't bother, it is a waste of time, money, and your health.

Unfortunately, to do a biopsy for DH it would have to be right beside an active blister (unopened). And yes, you would need another referral to a dermatologist for that. Maybe you could see one, and then make an agreement that you call whenever you have an active blister, and can come in that day for the biopsy. Because otherwise it isn't likely you have blisters to be biopsied on the day of your scheduled appointment.

Finding a dermatologist who actually knows what he is doing is another matter. Mine took the biopsy right through the rash, without active blisters being present (of course, it was negative, duh). Not only that, he didn't have hypoallergenic bandaids in his office, and put a regular one on ('you can't leave it uncovered'), making the rash really bad. By the time I got home (a 45 minute drive), it was itching so bad I was going nuts (I told him I was allergic to regular bandaids, but he didn't care).

Anyway, I hope you can figure it out.

Luisa2552 Apprentice

Kay

It is all very confusing. celiac disease and gluten sensitivity (NCGS) are very different, but treated the same. celiac disease is an auto immune disease. 95% of those with celiac disease have DQ2 or DQ8 genes. That still leaves a fair amount of people without the genes that have auto-immune mediated celiac disease. Then there is Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity. These people do not have the gene and usually have negative antibody blood tests, but get very ill with gluten in their diets. They will not develop celiac disease. The earlier poster with negative bloodwork DID have the gene, which CAN lead to celiac disease. So being that she did not tolerate gluten well, she would avoid gluten to avoid the auto-immune celiac disease kicking in.

Celiac disease or not anyone who reacts poorly to gluten should not be eating it! Has your daughter been tested at all? With it running in the family it would be no surprise if she had it. Weight loss and D are not necessarily classic symptoms. I had neither. Many have no symptoms at all. I would have her start with a Celiac panel her doctor can order. Enterolab cannot diagnose celiac disease, just gluten sensitivity.

horsegirl Enthusiast

[Then there is Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity. These people do not have the gene and usually have negative antibody blood tests, but get very ill with gluten in their diets. They will not develop celiac disease.

Luisa2552 Apprentice
[Then there is Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity. These people do not have the gene and usually have negative antibody blood tests, but get very ill with gluten in their diets. They will not develop celiac disease.

Actually, people with Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity CAN still develop Celiac disease, even if they don't have the DQ2 or DQ8 genes...you don't HAVE to test positive for one or the other of these genes to have Celiac (though most people with Celiac do have one of them). And, many people have those genes yet never develop Celiac. It's complicated, but the most important thing is to ensure a gluten free diet to prevent further damage to the villi & other body parts/systems.

You're right of course horsegirl. I tried to make that clear earlier in the post with the mention of the 95% of Celiacs having the gene, leaving lots of celiacs that don't. I'm clear with it but it can be difficult to explain it!

Beautiful horse in your avitar btw, yours?

ENF Enthusiast

Why can't you get an endocopy/biopsy without having gluten again, just to see if there is any damage? I've had endoscopies two years after going gluten-free, and there is still some evicence of damage, albeit much milder than the original tests showed. Doesn't it usually take adults at least a couple of years to heal? Anyway, good luck!

silly celiac Rookie

But would any damage show up if I'm not producing the antibodies? Apparently the blood tests came back negative, in spite of what my family doctor originally told me.

I don't know that I want to take the chance of going through all of that to possibly have nothing show up. It's a pretty invasive procedure. I am staying gluten-free, I have decided that. I am not going to try to re-gluten myself for a test that will tell me not eat gluten- and that's if I'm lucky! I ate gluten for two days (actually only two meals!), and I'm still feeling the repurcussions from that. I can't do that to myself; I refuse. I cancelled the biopsy today.

I'm going to schedule an appointment back with my family doctor to talk about the mixed messages I've gotten from him and the GI doc that has dinosaur knowledge of celiac disease. I would like to have some kind of test to confirm that there's actually something going on- whether it's a test through Enterolab, a skin biopsy of the DH, or perhaps getting the gene test through my family doc (and thus avoiding a little out-of-pocket cost because I can get insurance to cover some or all of it). I have less invasive options available to me that won't require reglutening. But some sort of medical confirmation would be nice for argument's sake--- my boyfriend is already planning for us to start eating at our favorite Italian restaurant again because I don't "HAVE" to stay gluten-free. He just doesn't get it! (Or... if I must... I will have my meeting with the family doc and then just tell my boyfriend that I got an official diagnosis... it would keep him from trying to pressure me into gluten, but I really don't think I could just lie... need a test to confirm it, really)

I don't need any test to tell me gluten doesn't work, though. Just ask the noises in my guts right now as they complain about last night's dinner!!!!

aikiducky Apprentice

Just one tip - any symptoms that you have from your last glutening - don't hide them from your boyfriend! That is eventually the most effective way to convince him.

Pauliina

horsegirl Enthusiast

Oh how I wish that horse was mine!! Unfortunately, we live in a suburb of a large city, & I don't

think a horse would be allowed in our backyard! :D

Someday, though.....

(The horse is a Friesian, which I think is one of the most beautiful horse breeds there is!)

ENF Enthusiast
But would any damage show up if I'm not producing the antibodies? Apparently the blood tests came back negative, in spite of what my family doctor originally told me.

I don't know that I want to take the chance of going through all of that to possibly have nothing show up. It's a pretty invasive procedure. I

If you have been gluten-free for a while, and never had a blood test before, but do have Celiac, your blood tests do not have to be positive for the endoscopy and biopsy to show damage previously done by gluten. If your blood work was negative even while consuming gluten, it probably isn't worth doing a biopsy because you likely didn't get to the point of having any damage that would show up. There are also many cases of people with positive blood work, but negative biopsy results.

If you do decide to get one, the endoscopy is a very safe and easy procedure - I've had four of them in the last eight years without incident. Nothing was found the first time, probably because they were not looking for signs of celiac disease. After my positive antibody tests in 2005, I had a positive endoscopy/biopsy. Subsequent ones showed damage consistent with celiac, even 2 1/2 years after being gluten-free (with very few glutening accidents), but all of my followup blood tests have been negative since 2005. I'm not recommending that you get one, without reason, but it's not a big deal if you do. Several other people here that initially had reservations about it were quite surprised at how easy it was after having it.

silly celiac Rookie
Just one tip - any symptoms that you have from your last glutening - don't hide them from your boyfriend! That is eventually the most effective way to convince him.

Pauliina

My extended family stayed in some cabins at a lake this weekend- it quickly became a running joke about how many cabins I had "christened" as I purged these attempted glutenings... there's no hiding my symptoms! :rolleyes: He's quickly figuring out that regardless of whether my "condition" has an official title or not, I WIL NOT be going back to gluten, EVER.

And in case anyone is wondering (as I once did)- yes, the symptoms are worse after being gluten-free and then reglutening. I've had a headache since Wednesday, the joint and nerve pain (which I had almost forgotten) is unbearable, and my guts are still quite unhappy with me.

silly celiac Rookie

Wow!

Today, it feels like the clouds have parted and the sun emerged. I feel human again! It has been one week since I attempted to regluten- one long week of feeling like a zombie with a hangover- and suddenly today, I feel almost normal. Yay!!!

The road ahead is still long, but I have found hope again. :D

ravenwoodglass Mentor
Wow!

Today, it feels like the clouds have parted and the sun emerged. I feel human again! It has been one week since I attempted to regluten- one long week of feeling like a zombie with a hangover- and suddenly today, I feel almost normal. Yay!!!

The road ahead is still long, but I have found hope again. :D

:):):)

Fabulous news!!!!!! May you have many more bright days ahead.

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    • cristiana
      @Kathleen JJ  I am based in the UK and the vast majority of sweets produced by Haribo are in fact gluten free, and I think they are the principal manufacturers of gummy bears.    The following link is to a website for UK based consumers but even post-Brexit, we are still importing and exporting a vast array of mainland European-manufactured goods, so chances are some of the products mentioned in the link are from the same factory.  So what your son eats would likely be the same product that I eat when it comes to eating sweets. https://libereat.com/2021/07/gluten-free-sweets/#:~:text=Haribo Gold Bears are gluten,Starmix   But always check the ingredients lists first.  When doing this, what you need to avoid (usually printed in bold in the ingredient list) are: Wheat, barley and rye. These grains all naturally contain gluten. Coeliacs must also avoid products which also state, "May contain traces of wheat, barley and rye" or products where the statement occurs: "Made in a factory which also handles wheat, barley and rye"    However, one other thing to think about:  oats.  In the UK, we do produce quite a few cakes and some candy which contains oats.    Oats do not naturally contain gluten, but as the crops are often grown alongside wheat, barley and rye, or processed in the same plants, cross-contamination can occur and they pick up gluten 'en route'.   The good news is that some food producers now grow oats away from these crops, and process them in oat dedicated plants, so you end up with a product called "pure oats" which are suitable for the majority of coeliacs (a minority react to avenin, the oat protein, in the same way they would to gluten, but I won't go into that here - just making you aware in case down the line you think it could be a problem).   So increasingly, in the UK at least, manufacturers are now printing oats in bold.   In candy production, you might find vegan chocolate which contains oat milk, hence I mention it here.  Unless such a candy bar stated that it was suitable for coeliacs,  your son would have to avoid it.   Incidentally, I think the idea of having a party after your holiday is a very wonderful, positive start to your son's gluten-free diet journey.  I was symptomatic by the time I was finally diagnosed with Coeliac Disease and was quite keen to start the diet straight away.  But just a few days after my endoscopy I was due to visit Normandy.  My consultant said to me, "Don't bother about taking up the diet until you get back".   I did try to start it in France but back then French catering establishments didn't seem to appreciate coeliac customers (something my gastroenterologist seemed to know something about!) so I was so glad he told me not to worry until I came home!
    • Kathleen JJ
      @cristiana Do you have any suggestions for the gummy bear type of candy? Because that is what is getting passed around. Someone told me "you will have to read all labels thoroughly from now on" but to be honest: I don't know what I'm looking for that should or should not be there? And is the notion "gluten free" trustable? And what about "may contain residual gluten"? Is that safe?
    • Kathleen JJ
      @trents The first thought indeed I had was 'thank god it's not cancer' and of course, there are many, many, many worse diagnoses to get. But this doesn't mean it doesn't come as a shock. I read a lot of the time 'the most common symptoms are...' and then all the things he doesn't have, but never do I find a list of less common symptoms (bar @Wheatwackeds examples - and also non of these are present). I get that severe pains can be a symptom, though the fact that they were omnipresent for 10 days (the exact time his viral values were up) and then 6 weeks later 1 episode also when the family was going through a stomach bug, and since then (nor ever before) none, this logically seems more related to a virus then a symptom of Coeliac, as I'd think this would have to be more present on a regular basis? He always has loved gluten-containing food and at that time was rather having less of it (due to the bug and feeling a little under the weather so eating more yoghurt and the likes then cookies) then more of it. It just doesn't sound all that logical. That being said, I comprehend AND accept that things can not always be logical.   I am trying to understand what you are saying about the tolerance - so as long as he eats gluten, he will have some tolerance to it, but when he stops, and say accidentally ingests something, he will react more as the tolerance is lower? It sounds so illogical (hmm, I see a pattern with myself: really looking for logic in a very illogical condition). And how do you interpret the values very 6 months as you maybe don't know there has been an accidental intake?  Do the values ever go down to zero or is it a question of getting them mainly lower and can they never go down to normal rates?   Normally results of his biopsy are coming in on monday, a little chance they come in today. I've been checking my mail every 10 seconds 🤦🏻‍♀️, this will not be a productive working day I fear 🙄. Then we know the values, but we only have an appointment with the specialized pediatrician and dietitian on December 6d (which in Belgium is a children's holiday comparable to Santa Clause). So we'll get the full "introduction" to the disorder and approach then.   I did talk to the pediatrician and gastrointestinal doctor who did the gastroscopy asking their advice about a plan I was having: to wait to start the diet after the holiday season, we will be abroad in a hotel and to start there in this very new world feels quite stressful for us, but even worse: it will start this journey in a lot of negativity. So our plan is to have a "yummy" party after we return from our trip, during Christmas holidays, inviting some of his friends and buying and making a vast array of gluten free goodies and having them sample and score it. This way it feels like a festive thing AND we can immediately find some things (hopefully) he genuinely like.   Both doctors agreed with this approach as this was truly an accidental find and hadn't we tested his blood 2 weeks ago chances were we'd only have found out in a year or 2 so those extra few weeks will not make the difference.   So now I'm gathering information, talking to people to know where there's good stuff...     But what keeps on being quite ununderstandable to me (I hope this will get explained on December 6th) is how it works. So it's auto-immune, meaning gluten trigger an immune response. Is this a black and white thing? Does 1 grain of wheat trigger the same response as a full bowl of spaghetti? And I mean this on a bowel and organs level, not on a symptoms level, as I gather (is this correct?) that not having any symptoms does not mean that his bowel doesn't get attacked?   I know it all could be worse, I truly do, but to be honest, this is the 4th "anvil falling on my head out of a clear blue sky" diagnosis that I got for one of my most loved people. First my mother was diagnosed with presenile dementia without anyone in the family having it. Then my unborn daughter turned out to have a chromosomal defect that made that she could only live inside of me and died when she was born, then my sister turned out to have (a tested non genetic 🤯) form of presenile dementia as well, with me being her only caretaker as my mother passed away a few years ago and she has no family of her own. And now this. And this is absolutely not only the least of this row but of course not even in the same ball park. But for my resilience and bearing capacity this just feels not little as it affects the life of my little boy...    
    • Wheatwacked
      Could be the Ozampic is masking your expected symptoms.  Like an analgesic masks pain.  Qzampic slows digestion to lower the rate glucose enters the intestine to slow its effect on glucose level.  It seems it might also slow down the gluten entry into the intestine, reducing its trigger level for the antibodies.  Ultimately the damage from gluten is the same, just not as fast so the pain is less.  Sourdough bread has less gluten.  Ozampic siows its entry.
    • Wheatwacked
      You can sell it better if the whole family does gluten free.  If he does have Celiac Diease, it is genetic so either you, your spouse, or both have a 40% chance of also having Celiac.  There are over 200 non classic symptoms also caused by celiac disease not often considered by doctors. Joint pain, muscle pain, muscle cramps, osteoporosis, and allergies for starters.  
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