Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Who's An Expert On Nightshades?


Guest andie

Recommended Posts

Guest andie

I have been hearing more and more about nightshades lately.

My son has been relatively gluten free for about 4 months. Showed alot of improvement over that time. Not as much improvement as my husband though.

Now my son complains daily of nausea. He swears he is not cheating at school. (In fact he has phoned to come home the last two days due to nausea.)

We tried making him lactose free. No improvement.

I did the candida quiz. He barely qualifies..

I have been really strict with the diet. Nothing.

I checked all the product labels for soap, shampoo, toothpaste. (Not that they're very revealing.)

This has been going on for nearly 2 weeks. So its not a bug.

It wakes him up at least twice in the night. It seems to be worse at night. He snacks before going to bed.

Our next experiment will be to have supper earlier, therefore snack earlier and have stomach rest time before bed.

Now after reading all the posts on nightshades, I wonder about stopping those foods. Potatoes are a main staple in his diet. My husband is not having the same symptoms, but complaining of feeling hungry all the time.

Do I have to actually put him on those restrictions to find out if that's what it is? Or will allergy testing tell me what I want to know?

What are the primary foods to avoid? Are these foods listed on most labels? Can nightshades be a hidden ingredient, like 'artificial flavours'?

Is there a good web site to answer all these questions and give a list of symptoms for this allergy?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Andie


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular

You might pm Ursa Major--she is our resident expert on nightshades and lectins!

Jestgar Rising Star

allergy testing isn't specific enough to help you. There are too many false positives and false negatives.

Try cutting out potatoes for a while and see if it makes a difference. Maybe he just has a slight sensitivity and he's gotten overloaded recently.

rinne Apprentice

Hi, the nightshade family includes tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, tobacco (not that that would be a problem for him) and potatoes of course.

Nightshades are toxic but more so to some than others, they are an inflamatory and are often avoided by folks with arthritis.

You can see I am no expert but if you are going to restrict potatoes to see if he improves then it would be wise to cut out the ketchup, etc.

Sorry to hear that he is still having problems, I hope you can figure it out soon. :)

Ursa Major Collaborator

It sounds to me like it may be dairy. Not just lactose, but rather casein, meaning ALL dairy! I have never had a problem with nausea after eating nightshades myself. Potatoes will give me diarrhea and rumbling in the intestines as well as joint pains, back pain and headaches. Tomatoes give me terrible migraines and mild stomach problems, peppers make me break out in awful pus-filled pimples all over my face.

But dairy will make me nauseous. I wouldn't dare ever drink a glass of milk (the last time I tried that is many years ago), as it will give me an instant sharp stomach pain, followed by nausea and just a general feeling of unwellness that lasts many hours. And that goes for lactose free milk as well.

Guest andie

Thanx for your suggestions. They give me somewhere to start.

Andie

It sounds to me like it may be dairy. Not just lactose, but rather casein, meaning ALL dairy! I have never had a problem with nausea after eating nightshades myself. Potatoes will give me diarrhea and rumbling in the intestines as well as joint pains, back pain and headaches. Tomatoes give me terrible migraines and mild stomach problems, peppers make me break out in awful pus-filled pimples all over my face.

But dairy will make me nauseous. I wouldn't dare ever drink a glass of milk (the last time I tried that is many years ago), as it will give me an instant sharp stomach pain, followed by nausea and just a general feeling of unwellness that lasts many hours. And that goes for lactose free milk as well.

Judyin Philly Enthusiast

hi good luck with your little fella.

also ck out the thread Patti put up on Oxalates / nightshades and agree on the milk.

judy


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



aschev Newbie

This is my first post, but I have been nightshade-free for almost 11 years (for arthritis), and diagnosed celiac since January 2007.

My son was diagnosed as lactose intolerant when he was about 10, and his main symptom was nausea immediately after eating/drinking a high-lactose food. His Pediatric GI doctor said this was a common symptom in children (not so common in adults.) The interesting thing to me is that the nausea was immediate - there wasn't time for the food to even reach the stomach! So my conclusion was that he was reacting to something in milk, in addition to being lactose intolerant. He's OK now, and can drink LactAid milk without nausea.

Now to help with some of your nightshade questions:

What are the primary foods to avoid? Are these foods listed on most labels? Can nightshades be a hidden ingredient, like 'artificial flavours'?

Others have already identified the primary foods, and pointed out that exposure to tobacco smoke can also affect nightshade-sensitive individuals. As with glutens, nightshades can be very difficult to completely eliminate. The things that tripped me up the first year or two were mainly spices. Keep in mind that paprika, cayenne, chili powder, and red pepper are all names of peppers in the nightshade family. Paprika is often used to color foods, and as such is commonly listed as an ingredient. The others may just be listed as "spices." I stay away from any product that has "spices" as an ingredient.

Mustard commonly contains some form of pepper, but I've had luck with a store brand yellow mustard that didn't list "spices" as an ingredient (Harris Teeter.) I use a plum catsup recipe in place of ketchup or barbecue sauce. I make my own salad dressings or use oil and vinegar when eating out. Au Jus served in restaurants, in addition to often containing glutens, also often contains potato starch. Shredded cheeses and pretzels and many crackers often contain potato starch. You also need to read the label each time you buy a product, since ingredients often change.

In addition to severe joint inflammation from peppers, potatoes cause me very painful upper chest bloating. I find that the smallest bit of an ingredient (one errant piece of pepper cooked in some food, and removed) will still cause my symptoms. So I would say you will need to completely remove all nightshades from his diet in order to determine if this is an issue for him.

Good luck!

Guest andie

That's very helpful. Thanx

Andie

This is my first post, but I have been nightshade-free for almost 11 years (for arthritis), and diagnosed celiac since January 2007.

My son was diagnosed as lactose intolerant when he was about 10, and his main symptom was nausea immediately after eating/drinking a high-lactose food. His Pediatric GI doctor said this was a common symptom in children (not so common in adults.) The interesting thing to me is that the nausea was immediate - there wasn't time for the food to even reach the stomach! So my conclusion was that he was reacting to something in milk, in addition to being lactose intolerant. He's OK now, and can drink LactAid milk without nausea.

Now to help with some of your nightshade questions:

Others have already identified the primary foods, and pointed out that exposure to tobacco smoke can also affect nightshade-sensitive individuals. As with glutens, nightshades can be very difficult to completely eliminate. The things that tripped me up the first year or two were mainly spices. Keep in mind that paprika, cayenne, chili powder, and red pepper are all names of peppers in the nightshade family. Paprika is often used to color foods, and as such is commonly listed as an ingredient. The others may just be listed as "spices." I stay away from any product that has "spices" as an ingredient.

Mustard commonly contains some form of pepper, but I've had luck with a store brand yellow mustard that didn't list "spices" as an ingredient (Harris Teeter.) I use a plum catsup recipe in place of ketchup or barbecue sauce. I make my own salad dressings or use oil and vinegar when eating out. Au Jus served in restaurants, in addition to often containing glutens, also often contains potato starch. Shredded cheeses and pretzels and many crackers often contain potato starch. You also need to read the label each time you buy a product, since ingredients often change.

In addition to severe joint inflammation from peppers, potatoes cause me very painful upper chest bloating. I find that the smallest bit of an ingredient (one errant piece of pepper cooked in some food, and removed) will still cause my symptoms. So I would say you will need to completely remove all nightshades from his diet in order to determine if this is an issue for him.

Good luck!

modiddly16 Enthusiast

Where's this Michael Fowler person now? He pitched this huge book and topic on this forum about nightshades...and he hasn't commented on this thread when someone needs his expertise. I find it fishy!

I do hope everyone feels better soon :)

Guest andie

Who the heck is Michael Fowler? (I guess that's your point!)

Andie :huh:

Where's this Michael Fowler person now? He pitched this huge book and topic on this forum about nightshades...and he hasn't commented on this thread when someone needs his expertise. I find it fishy!

I do hope everyone feels better soon :)

Ursa Major Collaborator
Who the heck is Michael Fowler? (I guess that's your point!)

Andie :huh:

No, it is obvious who he is, you can buy his book from Amazon. What she thinks is fishy is that it looks like he only came here to advertise his book, not to help people.

aschev Newbie

One more suggestion on eating out: The following menu items at Outback Steakhouse work well for a nightshade-free diet:

Prime rib with no au jus (make sure to ask them to not have your steak ever touch the au jus - that's often how they warm up the meat before they serve it to you), sweet potato, house salad (no croutons)

Or grilled salmon with no spices cooked on a clean grill, sweet potato or steamed veggies, house salad.

These are more adult meals, but I've found Outback in general to be very helpful. One conversation with the head chef should provide you with some similar kid-friendly options.

Before my diet got even more restrictive, I would carry a little card to give to the waiter to have the chef check over. It said "NO white potatoes, red/green/yellow peppers, eggplant, tomatoes, chili powder, red/cayenne pepper, paprika PLEASE." It helped immensely!

Good luck!

Guest andie

that's an excellent idea! it would be difficult for a waiter/waitress to remember a long list of 'can't haves' or 'don't adds' and relay it to someone else who is probably very busy. the card would also act as a reminder when they made it up.

As to the Micheal Fowler thing, I'm very new to this and have not had time to research all the literature. No offense intented. Sorry.

Andie

One more suggestion on eating out: The following menu items at Outback Steakhouse work well for a nightshade-free diet:

Prime rib with no au jus (make sure to ask them to not have your steak ever touch the au jus - that's often how they warm up the meat before they serve it to you), sweet potato, house salad (no croutons)

Or grilled salmon with no spices cooked on a clean grill, sweet potato or steamed veggies, house salad.

These are more adult meals, but I've found Outback in general to be very helpful. One conversation with the head chef should provide you with some similar kid-friendly options.

Before my diet got even more restrictive, I would carry a little card to give to the waiter to have the chef check over. It said "NO white potatoes, red/green/yellow peppers, eggplant, tomatoes, chili powder, red/cayenne pepper, paprika PLEASE." It helped immensely!

Good luck!

modiddly16 Enthusiast
No, it is obvious who he is, you can buy his book from Amazon. What she thinks is fishy is that it looks like he only came here to advertise his book, not to help people.

Ursa Major got me!! I just found it strange that he joined to discuss nightshades (he taught me, being that I had no idea what they were) but them seemed to only pitch his book when here was a perfect opportunity to prove his expertise...eh..but sometimes I try to be a detective...maybe I should stick to my day job, who knows :)

  • 1 year later...
Michael Fowler Newbie

Greetings all,

Where is Michael Fowler? Well, first I had no idea this thread was here. Second, quite a bit of grief came my way for the mention of a certain book, on this forum. :( Be that as it may, I write email's constantly helping people with questions about nightshades. And, will do my best to answer any questions. Being the Nightshade free crusader is far more trouble than it is worth, but many people are suffering like I was, and I want to help.

Please feel free to look up my information on my profile, and how to contact me.

Now my son complains daily of nausea. He swears he is not cheating at school. (In fact he has phoned to come home the last two days due to nausea.)

Andie

Hi Andie,

For me when I was his age, nausea was THE sign of nightshades, sometimes with sweating, cramps, dizziness, etc. Who know what goes into school food. Modified Food Starch is general made from potatoes, this can be a source, as it is in everything. Commercial white breads are food of solanine, as they use potato water to make the bread so it stays soft longer.

Well this post might be a bit late, but hopefully it helps.

Michael

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      128,873
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    Nancy Robinson
    Newest Member
    Nancy Robinson
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.1k
    • Total Posts
      71.3k

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • trents
      Thanks for sharing, Karen. Certainly a needed reminder what we already knew (and I've posted many times on this forum) but sometimes forget, namely, autoimmune disorders tend to cluster. Where one is found, you can look for others to show up eventually. The thing that is unusual in your son's case is the onset of several of them at such a young age. My sister in law, who is in her early 60's has Crohn's and struggles with constipation so I don't think that is unusual with Crohn's. If nothing else, it's the outcome of not eating much because of the pain. Now that you know what is going on with your son and the Crohn's, we hope he is beginning to improve.
    • Nathan.
      Hi there. My son is turning 16 this month. He had an endoscopy and biopsy to confirm celiac. He went gluten-free and his pain never got any better. I think it got worse. Months went by. The pain started around 7th grade. He missed a lot of school in 8th grade, and a whole lot in 9th grade. He couldn't go to school in 10th grade. All along the gastroenterologist prescribed Hyoscyamine, didn't help at all. Cyproheptadine, no less pain. Peppermint oil, ginger, Miralax, Senna. Doc said he was constipated, but I couldn't get him to have Miralax daily. Eventually he went on Linzess and no senna or Miralax. Sorry this is long, there will be a point.  We gave his school not just a doctors not, but everything, and U of M makes a lot of notes. They still turned us in for Truancy.  I didn't get him enrolled in online school fast enough.  The school would not recommend an online school and i didn't know which one to choose.  Doc thought it was nerve pain and mental. He recommended the u of m my pain program.  Nathan did so good, 3 days a week supposed to be for 4 weeks.  Never missed, always on time.   After two weeks, they discharged him. Said it was not  benefitting him.  Pain went on. I had been asking if there were any other test they could do. Ultrasound, colonoscopy. Doc said we can do it, but I don't think we'll find anything.  Finally he had a colonoscopy and another endoscopy.  Guess what, they did find something. They found a ton of tiny ulcers everywhere, from the esophagus to his rectum. They think Crohn's. I understand they didn't check for that because he was more constipated, not much diarrhea. He is getting an MRI with contrast on Sunday. Also they want him to do a cal-protectin (give a poop sample). Then an appointment on the 16th to talk about treatment. Then the probation officer on the 17th. In the meantime he is taking Budesonide extended release.  $276.00 for 30 pills, and that's with insurance. Also he was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism, Graves disease a few months ago. If it is for sure Crohn's,  it will be three autoimmune diseases. If someone is gluten-free for a month or more, and the pain is no better, don't stop looking. I was beside myself. Did they think he was exaggerating, lying? I was considering taking him to a holistic doctor, who would probably recommend Peppermint oil and ginger.  He's such a good kid. Kind of an introvert. He was on the 9th grade soccer team. He would try to go to practice and kept having to stop, the pain was that bad. Every time he ate, it didn't matter what, gluten-free chicken tenders, mac and cheese, pizza, ice cream, all gluten-free, he would eat a normal amount but stop and say, I can't eat anymore, my stomach hurts.  If anyone reads all this, thank you. I had a gut feeling, no pun intended, that he had an additional problem. They found celiac and stopped looking. If you don't feel better, keep on your doctor to check further, keep looking.   Take care, Karen  
    • Scott Adams
      Most likely cross-contamination I believe.
    • cristiana
      I think it takes different people different amounts of time, but in my own case I had pain,  bloating and loose stools for some time, exacerbated by a lactose intolerance, which eventually went.  I would say the really bad diarrhea got better quite quickly, but the bloating pain carried on for a few months, until I was told to give up lactose for a few weeks.  That helped enormously and once I realised milk and yoghurt was the cause, after a short break I went back to lactose very gradually and felt a lot better.  Now I can tolerate it well. From Coeliac UK "The enzyme lactase is found in the brush border of the small intestine. This is why people with coeliac disease can be deficient in lactase at diagnosis. Once established on a gluten free diet, the gut is able to heal and lactose digestion returns to normal. Lactose intolerance is therefore usually temporary." So if this helps your daughter, this doesn't mean you have to give up lactose forever, especially as dairy is such a good source of calcium for growing kids.   Bear in mind you should be able to reintroduce it. As for fatigue, this can be due to vitamin and mineral deficiencies,such as iron, vitamin D and B12.  Were these levels tested?  If not, I would suggest you get them done.  If your daughter is deficient in these, it is vital you address the deficiencies, and get the tests redone in a few months, particularly the iron, because too much can be dangerous.
    • knitty kitty
      Hello,   The medication in these inhalers can cause a thiamine deficiency if used by someone already low in thiamine.  We don't absorb sufficient amounts of vitamins and minerals due to the inflammation and damage done to our villi in Celiac Disease.  Even a long term strict gluten free diet may not provide sufficient amounts of vitamins and minerals.  There are eight B vitamins that all work together.  Thiamine deficiency often shows up first because our bodies use so much of it and it can't be stored very long. Thiamine deficiency symptoms can appear in as little as three days.  Without thiamine, the other B vitamins may not be able to function properly.   Thiamine is needed to clear lactic acid accumulation caused by the inhalers: Shoshin beriberi provoked by the inhalation of salbutamol https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12951730/    Significant Lactic Acidosis from Albuterol https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5965110/ Albuterol-Induced Type B Lactic Acidosis: Not an Uncommon Finding https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7263006/ Lessons of the month 1: Salbutamol induced lactic acidosis: clinically recognised but often forgotten https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6964186/ An Overview of Type B Lactic Acidosis Due to Thiamine (B1) Deficiency https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10731935/   Thiamine has antifungal and antibacterial properties.  Thiamine helps keep Candida in check.  Thiamine helps keep SIBO in check.  Thiamine helps with black mold, Aspergillis infection.  Riboflavin helps fight Candida infection in the mouth. Riboflavin Targets the Cellular Metabolic and Ribosomal Pathways of Candida albicans In Vitro and Exhibits Efficacy against Oropharyngeal Candidiasis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36625571/   Thiamine deficiency can make ones voice hoarse and can cause localized edema.  Niacin deficiency can make ones voice hoarse.  (Niacin deficiency and Thiamine deficiency can each cause irritability, agitation, and lability.) Hoarseness in pellagra https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21507655/ Hidden Hunger: A Pellagra Case Report https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8152714/   Anesthesia can cause B12 deficiency.  B12 deficiency can show up as mouth sores and geographic tongue, diarrhea, and dementia. Vitamin deficiency, a neglected risk factor for post-anesthesia complications: a systematic review https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11823251/ Neurologic degeneration associated with nitrous oxide anesthesia in patients with vitamin B12 deficiency https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8250714/ Subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord following nitrous oxide anesthesia: A systematic review of cases https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30144777/ The Effect of Vitamin B12 Infusion on Prevention of Nitrous Oxide-induced Homocysteine Increase: A Double-blind Randomized Controlled Trial https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4052402/     Eating a diet that is heavy in carbohydrates can precipitate a thiamine deficiency.  As the amount of carbohydrates consumed increases, additional thiamine is needed, otherwise the carbs will be stored as fat.   Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8451766/   Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8533683/   The deficiency symptoms of some of the B vitamins cause gastrointestinal symptoms that resemble the same symptoms as when being glutened.   Thiamine deficiency can present as vomiting, diarrhea and abdominal pain (Gastrointestinal Beriberi).  Niacin deficiency can present as diarrhea (Pellagra = diarrhea, dermatitis, dementia, then death ).  B12 deficiency can present as diarrhea or dementia.  Not everything is caused by hidden gluten.  Gluten free processed foods are not required to be enriched with vitamins lost in processing like gluten containing foods are. Blood tests are not accurate measurements of vitamin levels, but do talk to your doctor and nutritionist about supplementing with the eight B vitamins, Vitamin C, the four fat soluble vitamins and minerals like magnesium.  Your physician can give you a shot of B12 before anesthesia administration.   By the way, Celiac Disease genes have been traced back to having originated in Neanderthals.  I'm not a singing teacher on the net.  I earned a degree in Microbiology after studying nutrition because I wanted to know what vitamins are doing inside the body.  I've experienced nutritional deficiencies myself. Hope this helps!  Keep us posted on your progress!
×
×
  • Create New...