Sleep Problems - Bad

[Joni63]

  tarnalberry said:

You can be optimistic and happy and still have depression, and anxiety. Most people would describe me as happy, and definitely optimistic, but I also have been dx'ed with something between dysthymia and mild-moderate depression concommittant with fibro. These things can come in a big tangled bundle that is difficult to untangle.

But, I don't mean to press it on you, of course, just wanted to clarify that you don't have to "feel all depressed" to have an impact in your life due to depression.

Oh, I honestly never realized that. I figured if I was depressed I would feel sad or bad all the time. How does someone know they are depressed?

I know I have anxiety and have had for years, but it is undiagnosed and I never mentioned it to the doctors.

I'm glad you brought it up, thank you.

[tarnalberry]

  Bellyfat said:

Oh, I honestly never realized that. I figured if I was depressed I would feel sad or bad all the time. How does someone know they are depressed?

I know I have anxiety and have had for years, but it is undiagnosed and I never mentioned it to the doctors.

I'm glad you brought it up, thank you.

The best way to know, is to do an eval with a psychologist. Mine took three hours, and I swear the only people who would guess that outcome are myself and my husband (we live together *and* work together, so we're around each other all the time).

Here's the diagnostic criteria from the ICD-10. I'm using that, rather than the DSM-IV, because the latter doesn't separate severity clearly, focusing only on major depressive disorder (and generally, an eval with a psychologist would flesh out the specifics, but all we have at hand is the internet and written words... )

Depressed mood, loss of interest and enjoyment, and reduced energy leading to increased fatigability and diminished activity in typical depressive episodes; other common symptoms are:

(1) Reduced concentration and attention

(2) Reduced self-esteem and self-confidence

(3) ideas of guilt and unworthiness (even in mild type of episode)

(4) Bleak and pessimistic views of the future

(5) Ideas or acts of self-harm or suicide

(6) Disturbed sleep

(7) Diminished appetite

Typical examples of “somatic” symptoms are: loss of interest or pleasure in activities that are normally enjoyable; lack of emotional reactivity to normally pleasurable surroundings and events; waking in the morning 2 h or more before the usual time; depression worse in the morning; objective evidence of definite psychomotor retardation or agitation; marked loss of appetite; weight loss; marked loss of libido.

For mild depressive episode, two of most typical symptoms of depression and two of the other symptoms are required. If four or more of the somatic symptoms are present, the episode is diagnosed: With somatic symptoms.

For moderate depressive episode, two of three of most typical symptoms of depression and at least three of the other symptoms are required. If four or more of the somatic symptoms are present, the episode is diagnosed: With somatic symptoms.

For severe depressive episode, all three of the typical symptoms noted for mild and moderate depressive episodes are present and at least four other symptoms of severe intensity are required.

It's odd to try to explain how I can come across and usually feel fairly happy and confident, while at the same time not be as interested in things as I used to be, not have much attention for things, and not as happy. I suppose that's it - it's a comparitive thing. Best as I can tell, these criteria are written do dx major depressive disorder, so they're written more for the extremes, so, for "a bleak view of the future", you don't have to be thinking horror-stricked "human kind is dooooomed!!!!", but rather, head-hanging, low-voiced "man, life's tough, and we're just getting by, and we're always going to be getting by, and it's always going to be this hard, and there's no way that it' going to be easier to ever get by". (I hope that comes across in writing... I wish I could find an actor and make a video of it...)

And - of course - I still in no way mean to say that your sleep troubles are necessarily indicative of depression. There are plenty of other things that interfere with sleep - apnea, restless leg, teeth clenching, circadian rhythm issues, etc. - that are totally unrelated. (insert other disclaimers here... )

[Joni63]

  tarnalberry said:

The best way to know, is to do an eval with a psychologist. Mine took three hours, and I swear the only people who would guess that outcome are myself and my husband (we live together *and* work together, so we're around each other all the time).

Here's the diagnostic criteria from the ICD-10. I'm using that, rather than the DSM-IV, because the latter doesn't separate severity clearly, focusing only on major depressive disorder (and generally, an eval with a psychologist would flesh out the specifics, but all we have at hand is the internet and written words... )

Depressed mood, loss of interest and enjoyment, and reduced energy leading to increased fatigability and diminished activity in typical depressive episodes; other common symptoms are:

(1) Reduced concentration and attention

(2) Reduced self-esteem and self-confidence

(3) ideas of guilt and unworthiness (even in mild type of episode)

(4) Bleak and pessimistic views of the future

(5) Ideas or acts of self-harm or suicide

(6) Disturbed sleep

(7) Diminished appetite

Typical examples of

[tfarah]

  dlp252 said:

Hey Joni,

I have a lot of issues with insomnia as well and have for years. My neurotransmitters (melatonin, seritonin, ephinephrine, noriphinephrine, etc.) are all off. Not sure exactly why (I have several health issues that can cause it), but we're supplementing specifically for that, and my sleep patterns have improved a little. I wake up at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 and if I wake up at 4:00 I don't go back to sleep, but recently have been going back to sleep if I wake up before 3. My adrenal levels are also off (measured by saliva).

Up until a couple of weeks ago, I was taking about 200 mg of 5-HTP and about 12 mg of melatonin every night, and that still didn't help much. I even got some AmbienCR...that didn't help me at all, lol. Over-the-counter stuff like benedryl, sleep aids, tylenol PM etc, actually work the opposite on me...they tend to rev me up worse.

I don't have an answer for you, but gee I can sure emphathize!

Donna,

Hi! I just wanted to comment. My sleep is like your sleep. I was diagnosed with ADHD-I'm 37! I take Ambien every night and get about 3 uninterupted hours of sleep. Then I start the hour or 2 hour waking up constantly routine. And when I do sleep for that hour or hour and 1/2, I don't sleep well, so I end up sleeping during the day too. I have found though-without the ambien-whether its from taking it for a while or not-I cannot fall asleep without it. The doctor said it was because of my ADHD that I wake as often as I do-so I just wanted to pass that on to you. I am on the road to be tested for celiac-which would explain it all anyway. Thanks!

[dlp252]

Thanks for the info!

My sleep has improved slightly since I've started the neurotransmitter support supplements. I still wake up, but I tend to go back to sleep quickly...now if we can just find the issue that's causing the neurotransmitters to be out of balance I'll be happy, lol.