I Think My Dd Has Adhd

[ptkds]

I think my 7 yr old dd has ADHD. Along with her extra moodiness and behavior problems after she has gluten, she has problems when she hasn't had gluten. She is gonna fail the 1st grade and she is an extremely smart kid! She does fine in school (with behavior), but at home she is a nightmare. She has her good days, and her very bad days. She has bitten her older sister a few times even though she knows it is wrong. She has actually hit her baby sister once or twice. She is VERY implusive. She is just driving me nuts. She cries at the drop of a hat, and she is SO picky about everything from food to clothes to where she sits!

So DH and I met with a psychologist yesterday, and dd will meet her next week. I really doin't want her drugged, but I don't know how to handle her anymore. I am so upset that she is failing because she is such a smart girl. I am hoping that we can get her caught up over the summer and have her re-tested for 2nd grade before school starts agian.

Another fear I have is that she doesn't have ADHD and she does have bipolar. My dad and dh's dad both had bipolar, so we have always been afraid that one of our kids would develop it.

This probably doesn't have much to do w/ Celiac, except her problems are intensified after she is accedentally glutened.

Anyone have any opinions/ideas/stories?? I am treading in very unfamaliar territory here, and I don't know what to do.

[missy'smom]

I wish I had good advice. I've spent the last few years trying to figure out what's behind my son's ADHD diagnosis. There is more to ADHD in general than just bad behavior. The teachers tend to just label him a badly behaved kid but they forget that there is a processing and memory problem. They think that if only his behavior would be controlled that he his work would improve but I'm not so sure. As I see it's really almost a learning disability. His body and brain doesn't work properly and that's not his fault. I'm not saying he doesn't have any responsibility for his actions.

One thing to consider is how to go about the testing. Many Psy will just do the Conners Rating Scales. IMHO They amount to everyone's opinions. Not that they aren't useful but IMHO they aren't sufficient. One thing I insisted on was having a full educational evaluation which amounted to a large number of tests for a variety of things. So we have pages of numbers. I like having more hard facts. It was done privately and expensive and the truth is that the Psy make alot of money off it(the Psy we most recently met with told me this straight up and I knew it already, he wasn't the one that did the full battery). Luckily insurance reimbursed us for a large portion of the cost. The person who did the testing was not good at follow up, unfortunately. She just cranked out reports and profited. But the tests were properly done. We moved shortly after anyway. The school Psy and another Psy where we are now told us that we wouldn't get as extensive testing if we went through the school system here.

It has been of some use. We have looked at it with professionals, school and otherwise and said OK these numbers show that he doesn't have dyslexia and these numbers show that he has a poor working memory so he isn't going to be able to pass these multiplication facts tests (his teacher keeps thinking that he needs to practice more and has made him take the same test up to 10 times, with him missing differnet ones every time, but the counselor can see(from the educational test results) that it's not going to work and agree with me when I bring it up.(unfortunately she hasn't done anything about it yet.)

With my son, we have the opposite behavior pattern, difficult at school(mostly positive but overly squirmy, overly talkative, impulsive energy), the days that he contolls himself more at school he will sometimes come home and let out all the pent up energy and frustation(which ends up being more negative).

[wonkabar]

My just 5 year-old son was given a primary Dx of ADHD with a comorbid Dx of Anxiety Disorder and Sensory Processing Disorder in Nov. 2007 (at 4 1/2). He also has a Central Auditory Processing Delay. ALL of these difficulties are very common in children with ADHD; it's soooooooooooooo much more than hyperactivity, impulsivity and inattention. Behavioral difficulties are also part of it! Children with ADHD very often have a Learning Disability and/or other comorbid difficulties such as anxiety, sensory processing difficulties, language processing difficulties, etc. ADHD is a Frontal Lobe Disorder and this directly effects Executive Functioning which is responsible for things like emotional self-regulation, impulse control, ability to deal with frustration, etc. No wonder our poor little ones have so much difficulty sometimes.

We did a Rx medication trial for a month with my son. Meds. had some positive effects, but the side effects were awful. We've been seeing a naturopathic doctor since January, and using all natural, homeopathic treatments...it's more than twigs and berries! Homeopathy treats the "whole child" versus specifically treating specific symptoms. Although it's a process and takes time, we're seeing wonderful results. We did a lot of research about naturopathic doctors (credentials, education, philosophy, etc.) to ensure we weren't going to end up seeing some nutcase who got a docotor's degree on-line! We've been very fortunate in that all of our doctors and specialists have been great!

There's two things I'd recommend. First, request a full educational evaluation from your local school district's Child Study Team (CST) A Learning Disabilities Teacher-Consultant, School Psychologist and Social Worker will all have a part in this evaluation process. You'll need to submit your request in writing to the Director of Special Services in your district. This is also free of charge no matter where you live...it's federally mandated! After the eval, you'll meet with the CST to discuss the results. If your child is found to be eligible for special education services as a result of these evaluations, you'll meet with the CST to discuss an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) and what types of services and support your child will receive at school.

The other thing I'd recommend is that you see a Neuro-Developmental Pediatrician for an evaluation. A child psychologist would also be great (ours is great and specializes in ADHD) but the district is gonna want a Dx from an MD to back up the psychologist. Children with ADHD, if eligible for services, are usually classified through the district as Other Health Impaired (OHI). You do need a definitive Dx from an MD to support this.

I just finished reading an AWESOME book called ADHD: Living Without Brakes by Dr. Martin Kutscher. It was chockful of information and very parent friendly. It was just published. What I love most about this books is that it really focuses on the fact that ADHD is indeed a neurological disorder and sooooooooooo much more than a misbehaving, hyperactive child. It explains ADHD in terms of the Frontal Lobe and difficulty with Executive Function and everything that goes along with that........you know, tantrums, impulsive reactions, transitions, anxiety, etc. You can purchase it on Amazon. I promise you'll love it! There were times I wasn't sure if I were reading about my son, husband or younger brother.....not too much of a genetic component, huh??!! I wish I had this as a resource when I was still teaching special ed. It just explained things in such practical terms that it made me shake my head and say, "yup!". Sorry this was so long winded; I always like to reach out to help another mom or dad save precious time for their little ones when I can. Lots of luck!

(Definitely buy the book!!)

Oops...forgot to mention. My son is a beast if he's been accidentally glutened. Without question, gluten has a tremendous impact on his behavior. This hasn't happened in a very long time.

[Ursa Major]

Is your daughter still having dairy and/or soy? Dairy especially can cause all kinds of mental problems. Food dyes and sugar can also cause ADHD.

When my youngest daughter eats ice cream, she bounces off the walls for hours, totally out of control. She'll be laughing for no reason (and can't stop) and doesn't understand a word that is being said.

My second oldest daughter was a shy girl, so was very quiet in school. But then, when she got home she let out her pent-up frustration. When she was in Kindergarten she was so frustrated that the teacher wasn't paying any attention to her at all, due to being polite and quiet, that she came home and screamed at the top of her lungs for an hour!

She was always high-strung at home and getting into trouble (not meaning to). She was not an easy kid to raise. But as an adult her high energy has served her well in her job and looking after her kids and organizing her household. She still sometimes drives me nuts with wanting to organize me and my household, too.

My too high maintenance girls (the second youngest is, too) are the most successful adults now. They are motivated, have lots of energy and get things done!

I would be very careful to label a child ADHD and put them on medications. Those meds will take the creativity out of kids and make them into little zombies. Easy to look after, but you take away their emotions. Plus, those meds are highly addictive and have been shown to kill brain cells.

Looking back now, I believe that both those kids have intolerances that I was unaware of at the time, that could have caused some of their out of control behaviour. Both of them used to have terrible temper tantrums. The younger one still gets them sometimes (she is 22 and married). Too bad she is in denial and refuses to consider that she may have intolerances. But I can see that she has obvious symptoms.

[missy'smom]

wonkabar, how do you go about finding a good naturopathic doctor? What kind of credentials do you look for?

ptkids, I want to mention too that if your kiddo is tested for auditory processing disorder, make sure that the proper tests are done and that the person is qualified to diagnose it. The Psy. who prepared the report for us said over and over that he had auditory processing problems and recommended an expensive computer program that made no difference. When we moved and I had the school district audiologist look at the report, she said that the tests were not a good indicator of auditory processing disorder and that if she was going to evaluate and diagnose him with that she would need to do different tests.

[holiday16]

Only have a moment, but I wanted to post to check out this site and the books she offers:

Open Original Shared Link

I have not read her books, but have heard countless wonderful things about her for years. I would highly encourage you to check it out. Is This Your Child is the one I've seen recommended the most often. I'll have to post more later, but we deal with chemical sensitivities in our household and it can change a child's behavior in the most unbelievable ways. My oldest gets very hyper and impulsive. Very much like ADHD. Blue dye makes my youngest really hyper. Sugar makes my middle child hyper. They all have different triggers. My middle one was evaluated for ADD/ADHD. I'll have to post more about that later when I have more time.

[okgrace]

Our naturopathic doc has been so helpful in alleviating the anixious, over sensitive, oppositional behavior that we have struggled to deal with in our 4 year old dd. She also recieves occupational therapy once a week to address her social emotional skills and her sensory processing disorder. Sensory processing generally a big part of ADHD. Many of the reasons children are distractable or have difficulty paying attention, or coping boil down to an inability to process the sensory input from the environment. Things you wouldn't generally think off, like tags in shirts, or seams on socks, or the clock on the wall ticking, or the texture of certain foods, the list goes on and on.

I would suggest and OT evaluation by an OT who specializes in pediatrics and sensory processing disorders. The right therapist makes all the differance just like with any other kind of treatmnet.

[wonkabar]

The right therapist makes all the differance just like with any other kind of treatmnet.

Aint that the truth! As a mom of a little one with ADHD, isn't amazing what such seemingly benign things like the sound of a lawn mower could do??!! If you haven't read the book ADHD: Life Without Brakes by Dr. Martin Kutscher, I would defintely buy it. It's an excellent book for parents (and grandparents). I feel so sad for my little guy sometimes. It's not always being him. Fortunately we have far more good days than bad, but it still stinks to watch your child struggle no matter what the reason.

PTKDS---Yes indeed, Sensory Processing Disorder is a huge part of ADHD as are many other things. I agree that, in addition to a developmental pediatrician, you absolutely need to have your child evaluated by a PRAXIS Certified OT in Sensory Integration Therapy. These OT's have additional schooling and certification that is exclusive to sensory processing. Children with SPD cannot modulate (regulate) environmental stimulus (visual, auditory, tactile, etc.) or instrinsic stimulus (internal responses such as hunger, emotions, hunger, etc.). Google Dr. Lucy-Jane Miller and SPD. You'll get a ton of hits with very useful information. A couple of years ago, she completed a major study that provided concrete, scientific evidence which substantiates the correlation between ADHD and Sensory Modulation Dysfunction/ SPD.

Missy's Mom----I'll check back at my info. from when we were researching our natropathic doc and pass it along either tonight or tomorrow. Oh, I almost forgot. As far as I know, no one but a speech and language pathologist can specifically Dx a Central Auditory Processing Delay. I taught special ed before I had my little one's, and I don't ever remember having a psychologist specifically Dx a CAP Delay. They can certainly indicate that there's a language delay which is usually the result of parent information and observation, but there's a specific battery of tests that need to be administered by a speech and language pathologist. This typically isn't done until the child is about 7 y/o either. I've talked with our speech therapist at school about a CAP eval for my little guy. While it's obvious that he's got an auditory processing delay, she has said that he's still too young for the actual eval. The developmental skills that are part of the assessment are for children who are of school age not preschoolers or even kindergarteners. BTW, a great book about CAP Delays is titled When The Brain Can't Hear.

--Kristy

[ptkds]

Wow! You guys have some great advice! So many of your descriptions of your own kids completely describes my dd. I am going to keep all this wonderful info and make sure my dd gets all the help she needs.

Another question: How do you explain/teach your other children to deal with ADHD in siblings? My 10 yr old dd gets SO frustrated and mad at my 7 yr old, and sometimes she seems to do things just to bug her. I have tried to explain that DD#2 just needs some extra patience, love, understanding, etc., but she is having a hard time with it. She just wants her sister to be happy and normal, and not need so much patience. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[Kibbie]

I can tell you that my daughter is insane when she gets glutened. I've said it before... its like she is possessed. So I see how glutening can make things worse for all kids.

I found out recently that a good friend of mine in high school who suffered from bi-polar, was diagnosed with celiac disease after about a year of being gluten-free she was able to com off her meds, though if she accidentally gets glutened she gets in a slump again.

I have ADHD and was never medicated... Lots of physical activity in and outside of the school was key for me. Maybe it will work for her!

[Juliebove]

You should have her checked for food allergies. My daughter started having trouble in the 1st grade and the school thought she had ADHD. It runs in the family. But the Drs. didn't think she had this. Turns out the problem was allergies to many foods that she was eating on a regular basis. Eating them made her not only ill (but not an instant reaction so we couldn't tell), but also spaced out and unable to pay attention. She fell behind and was put in special ed for a couple of years, but now she is in the regular class and doing well.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I just wanted to add that whether it's ADHD, bipolar, or normal kid, I think one of the most important things you can do besides diet (good advice from Ursa and the others) is to get her OUTSIDE and EXERCISING for at least one hour a day. EVERY DAY.

We just got a puppy, and every dog-care book says that puppies need exercise several times a day. Why on earth don't pediatricians tell us that kids need exercise every day?

I was amazed by the mom of a friend of my son. Her kid was diagnosed with ADD, and she was dragging him off to psychiatrists once or twice a week, but he never went outside to play (their yard was a huge hill, not child-friendly) and he got NO exercise. She finally signed him up for golf once a week, and she seemed to think that that was exercise. She said, "oh, well, he has gym at school," and I had to remind her that that was only once a week, and that he usually refused to participate!!!

So--go for walks, or bike rides, or jump rope with her, or play tag, but get her to run around, and OUTSIDE. I am convinced that sunlight (or lack thereof) plays a role in these childhood diagnoses of psych disorders. But it all comes back to the pharm industry, who makes money if your kid is diagnosed and medicated, but they don't make a dime if your kid gets enough exercise, stimulation, sleep, etc.

Not to imply that that is the Big Fix-All--but I think it IS a big factor. I know I feel much better on days that I get to go outside, and exercise!

[missy'smom]

It certainly doesn't help that the schools don't give them recess time and pass out candy for rewards on at least a weekly if not daily basis! Current school is always asking parents to send in candy. In Kindergarden, my son's teacher often said "we only had time for 5 minutes recess today". When I enrolled him in private school I told them one of the reasons I liked that school was a longer lunch and recess period. They got 45min each, hour and a half all together and still learned more than public. Now(back to public), different state, school system, teacher etc. and still his teacher was late for lunch so many days last year and they had only 10 min. and this year a different teacher and so many days he comes home and says that they didn't go outside.

[ptkds]

Well, my dd gets lots of exercise. She LOVES going outside. The only time I make her stay inside is if it is raining or if she is grounded (which is rare). And her school has 2 recesses, one in the am, and one after lunch. I sent a link to this article to her teacher: Open Original Shared Link

She said my dd showed about 3 of the "signs" listed in the artlcle. She even listed each sign and her thougts on it compared to my dd. Her opinion was that my dd might have ADD, but not they hyperactive part of it.

I have thought of taking casein out of her diet, but she is already so picky and I just can't afford the special milk replacements and stuff. We are so broke right now it's rediculous. I should check into the other food allergies. But she is only sick w/ diarrhea after gluten. No other food seems to affect her.

[jayhawkmom]

You should have her checked for food allergies. My daughter started having trouble in the 1st grade and the school thought she had ADHD. It runs in the family. But the Drs. didn't think she had this. Turns out the problem was allergies to many foods that she was eating on a regular basis. Eating them made her not only ill (but not an instant reaction so we couldn't tell), but also spaced out and unable to pay attention. She fell behind and was put in special ed for a couple of years, but now she is in the regular class and doing well.

That sounds a LOT like my daughter. In fact, we did put her on ADD medications for a brief time. Our "team" of doctors all agreed, if they help... she has ADD. If they don't help, she doesn't.

They didn't help, really. I mean, they sure did calm her down, but she was just in a weird fog - they didn't help her in the ways that she needed to be helped. They helped ME because she was much more manageable, but she really didn't need the medications. We took her off of them... and removed a couple other "offenders" from her diet. Things have improved, but she's still hyper and inattentive. Though, she's doing very well in school. Then again, she's only in kindergarten. She's dairy, soy, gluten, nut, egg free. I don't know what else I can remove from her incredibly limited diet.

Then again... she does have some sensory differences, and my older child is a diagnosed Aspie. Something tells me we are just looking at the female expression. Though, I hope not.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Those "signs of ADD" mentioned in the article are all typical of autism spectrum disorders (ADD and ADHD are considered to be on the autism spectrum). Autism spectrum disorders are FREQUENTLY linked with gluten AND casein intolerance.

I know milk substitutes can be expensive, but if casein intolerance MIGHT be causing any of these symptoms in your daughter, isn't that an even higher price to pay?

Lots of people like Darifree--it's a potato-based milk substitute that comes as a powder, and can be ordered in bulk, so it's not hugely more expensive than milk. People say it tastes good, and they make yogurt and ice cream out of it. You might post on the board here and ask for people's opinions.

There are also different ways of teaching ASD kids how and why they should follow social rules. In many ways, these kids don't realize that there ARE social rules.

I have a student who exhibits every single "sign" mentioned in that article. But with patience and humor (something I have the luxury to use in a private violin lesson--classroom teachers don't, but a parent can do this), I've gotten her to a point where she can stay focused for 40 minutes straight. I had to explain rules (lesson rules) to her, and asked HER keep track of how many times she interrupts the flow of the lesson for something totally unrelated. I also used a lot of bribes/consequences, but with the rules clearly spelled out and repeated by her so that she really understood what was being asked of her, why, and what all the consequences would be.

She gets it!

I have another student who is autistic, and he also has all those signs. With the same ideas, he can stay focused for 30 minutes with one or two interruptions, which I think is pretty good.

In neither case does it have anything to do with anything that needs medication. Not that medication doesn't help some--but I do find it disturbing that the pharm industry wants to sell medicine to deal with conditions that are likely caused or at least exacerbated by pharmaceutical products in the first place (vaccines).

[Lizz7711]

Check out www.feingold.org for info on kids/ADHD/food sensitivities. I was about ready to take my daughter to a shrink thinking she had Oppositiional disorder when I came upon that site and realized there are other reasons kids act this way than that they have "psychological issues". They have these issues because their brains are being poisoned daily, get rid of the poison, and the problem is solved (not always of course).

Try cutting out ALL artificial food colors and flavorings, as well as aspartame (NO diet pop or gum), and MSG and MSG-like substances (textured vegetable protein, yeast extract etc, parmesan cheese). My daughter has severe behavioral reactions to gluten as well as MSG and the food colors--once you start tracking it you may begin to see the pattern, then when I point it out to my daughter, she starts to get it and it helps her to know that SHE herself is not a bad kid, but these chemicals are poisioning her brain and make her "crazy" for a time.

I agree with checking out the dairy and soy issue...but with my duaghter she has a physical reaction to those (headaches, legaches).

good luck!

Liz

[Kibbie]

Well, my dd gets lots of exercise. She LOVES going outside. The only time I make her stay inside is if it is raining or if she is grounded (which is rare). And her school has 2 recesses, one in the am, and one after lunch.

I was a super active kid too, I walked or rode my bike to school, I did synchronized swimming for a jr olympic team. Practices in the morning before school, and then did weights after school, and mroe practice on the weekend. In the summer I practiced either doing laps, figures, or weight training for about 6 hours a day and was in marching band, and volley ball as well during high school. (this is from around the age of 7 till I was in college). Even with that much activity I still needed to do more to help with my ADHD.

I had good days and bad days... on the good days I didnt need more activity... on bad days my mom and I would walk 4 miles after dinner.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Well, my dd gets lots of exercise. She LOVES going outside. The only time I make her stay inside is if it is raining or if she is grounded (which is rare). And her school has 2 recesses, one in the am, and one after lunch.

I think the exercise (and everything else in her day) might need to be extremely STRUCTURED--that seems to be a very, very important part of helping these kids manage. Even "free" time might need to be carefully structured.

[Esther Sparhawk]

I don't claim to be nearly as knowledgeable as some of these other folks, but I can tell you that bipolar disorder runs in my family too, and although my daughter hasn't been diagnosed with bipolar or ADHD, I have noticed hyperactivity in her whenever she ingests sugar. It's noticeable too, not just a brief sugar high. She gets moody, over-active, and sometimes irrational on just the slightest amount of sugar.

We've had her on the celiac gluten-free diet for three years, and the reactions to sugar seem to be waning as her body becomes healthier.

I've often wondered--but again, I'm no medical expert--if the disease doesn't cause absorption problems related to sugar. Celiac disease, I'm told is in the same family of diseases as diabetes (an autoimmune disorder) after all...

[Ursa Major]

I can relate to what Kibbie is saying. My second oldest daughter needed way, way more exercise than other kids. And even after an extremely active day with doing lots of running, jumping, skipping, swinging etc. outside, she sometimes came back down after going to bed as a young pre-teen and teenager and say that she couldn't sleep because her legs felt like running.

She would then put pants and a jacket on over her pajamas, and socks and running shoes and run around the block. She was usually able to go to sleep after that (we are in a small town, so that was not a problem as far as safety was concerned).