Celiac Disease Antibiotic Cure?

[RiceGuy]

Celiac's name comes from a translation of a term coined by Arataeus (or Aretaeus) in Greece ~350 BC.

That may be, and I haven't looked it up. However, it doesn't mean that Celiac was just as common back then as it is today. We may never know, but what isn't in dispute is the fact that today's wheat does have far more gluten than it used to. That has to count somewhere.

I'm as Irish as an Irish-American can be and this seems dubious at best.

Potatoes were the main staple in Ireland when the potato famine struck. If not, it wouldn't have had the impact it had.

That's what I recall from history class. If memory serves, it was a chef who was credited for turning the people around on the idea of eating potatoes. He had to prepare a large feast (the king was attending if I'm not mistaken), and he put potatoes in the meal because he was already convinced they were safe, and wanted to change people's minds. Although some people did think they were safe, most apparently didn't. I have not Googled this to refresh my memory, so perhaps I'll try later and post a link for those interested.

[tarnalberry]

potatoes and tomatoes are in the nightshade family, and belladonna (deadly nightshade) *way* back when, turned people off to eating potatoes and tomatoes for fear they were also poisonous. they are in the same family, but they aren't poisonous. (unless, of course, you get too many unripe potatoes and ingest too much solanine... )

[Calicoe]

I think if I would ever use long term antibiotics, I would try newer antibiotics instead of tetracylcine because

maybe the bacteria are more resistent against tetracycline nowadays.

Greetings, Ali

I also agree with Carla on this.

However, I'm not sure that the same is possible with Celiac Disease. There is some information suggesting that candida (yeast) is a possible trigger for Celiac. In a study candida was found to carry the same exact protein sequence that is found in gliadin....the same protein sequence that triggers the autoimmune response in Celiac.

Candida is a yeast that is naturally present in every person.....it is opportunistic and can overgrow when the immune system is under stress. This can be caused by any number of things...everything I listed previously as well as antibiotic treatments, certain medications (i.e. steroids), etc.

This discussion is very pertinent for me, because I have been having similar thoughts. My apologies for not yet reading through the entire thread. I have only gotten as far as Rachel's post above. Since I have been ill I have been doing a lot of research online. When I have a chance, I will post a couple of links. One of the more interesting links was a research report that found a similar protein connection between Giardia and celiac disease. Candida and Giardia are almost always present together.

I have had the respiratory allergy symptoms, neurological and endometriosis symptoms for a long time, but I only recently became ill with severe and abnormal GI symptoms in the last couple of years. I became infected with the giardia virus 2 years ago and treated, but my health has never been the same. It took me so long to arrive at a wheat allergy, because I thought I still had recurrent giardia. I did make a definite wheat connection, but the point is that something else happened to my immune system that triggered an autoimmune reaction (itchy rash with mirror effect, more frequent migraines, and losing my mind pretty much). Before I left Asia, I thought everything was mostly ok, until I came home in 2006 and had two separate bouts of Flagyl. That definitely weakened my immune system, because I had severe bronchitis right after, and another episode this year as well.

It seems as if I had more than one trigger. In graduate school five to eight years ago, under extreme stress, I first showed signs of the mouth ulcers and respiratory reactions after removing white flour and dairy and then stupidly reintroducing it. In Asia, I experienced light headed feelings and frequent D before giardia, but there were many variables there. On my return home to the U.S., I had the flagyl as I stated above, and got a very stressful job which I have since quit. From then on, things seem to have become more severe and chronic over this last year, until finding you all and going gluten-free.

There are also many expatriates in Thailand that get chronic gut problems. A nurse there told me that one of the diagnoses is "Tropical Sprue", and the prescription is tetracycline. It is a malabsorption problem, and is associated with parasites, which also means yeast.

Sorry for the ramble.

[tom]

That's what I recall from history class. If memory serves, it was a chef who was credited for turning the people around on the idea of eating potatoes.

Yeah, sorry, I was kinda shootin' from the hip & posting w/ little thought on that one.

:embarrassedface:

Coincidentally, potatoes were on my mind as I'd walked by this Andean/Peruvian restaurant I used to love (pre-gfcfsfvfsf etc) and I was thinking about how traditional potatoes are there as well.

But I have NO idea as to when potatoes became such an irish staple.

[tom]

Oops double-post

[Rachel--24]

If wheat always made so many people sick, I'd tend to think it would've been feared as poisonous, just as the Irish didn't want to eat potatoes because they thought they were poisonous.

It wouldn't be because of better detection or changes in the human genome, but the change in the food itself.

I think there is definately some truth in this.

Personally, I think theres alot more involved in the immune reactions to gluten, dairy and other foods. These food intolerances are becoming more and more prevelant.

There is definately an increase in the occurance of gluten intolerance.....I'm not convinced that this is based solely on awareness or better diagnostic capabilities.

An opinion question here: If someone does have not have villi damage and hypothetically never will(play along with me here) do they run a higher risk of the same cancers?

I agree with GFP's response to this question. To add to that I would say that YES some people with gluten intolerance (unrelated to Celiac/villi damage) will be at risk for cancers. Genetic plays an important role here and I wouldnt assume that these non-celiac people would run a higher risk for the same cancers that are more commonly linked with Celiac. I believe that in cases of Celiac...the cancer would be strongly linked to the continuous autoimmune attack on the villi.

In my opinion if there is a trigger for Celiac there are also triggers for non-celiac gluten intolerance...although in these cases it may not result in a genetic autoimmune response.....or the requirement of a life-long avoidance of gluten.

I do know that environmental insults can affect the body in many ways....there are many genes in our body that are considered "environmentally responsive"....meaing they can be altered by environmental factors.

When environmental factors alter a gene's make-up serious health issues can emerge. Some of the changes can be immediate....and some may take many years to manifest.

Negative environmental factors have been implicated in developmental disorders, gastorintestinal conditions, diseases of the immune system, and a myriad of other medical irregularities. The frequency of many of these medical conditions is increasing, which leads to furthur speculation that outside environmental causative factors are involved.

Included in the list of environmental insults that can affect disease states are toxic chemicals, toxins such as heavy metals, PCB's, pesticides present in the products we use and contaminants in the air we breathe and the water we utilize and drink.

I think Autism is a good example because the vast majority of these children are very sensitive to gluten and dairy...however, only a small percentage have Celiac Disease (positive bloodwork and/or positive biopsy).

I do not believe that a positive response to a gluten-free diet in these cases is an automatic diagnosis of Celiac Disease.

An abnormal immune response to gluten does not necessarily mean that a gene has been triggered nor does it mean that the immune response is autoimmune.

It is well known that toxins....and especially heavy metals (which we are ALL exposed to)...can suppress the immune system, cause immune dysfunction, cause abnormal brain development and function, cause biochemical pathway irregularities, etc. etc.

"Genetics alone don't cause epidemics....epidemics occur when genetic vulnerablities are assaulted by environmental changes - introductions of a new virus, a new bacteria, or a new toxin."

The Dr.'s treating Autism are very aware of the fact that heavy metals and other toxins are involved in this condition....as are viruses, yeast and bacteria. Food intolerance is a consequence and not a cause. To me that indicates that heavy metals and toxins are capable of causing a situation that results in an inability to digest and assimilate gluten, casein and other problem foods.

These environmental triggers are not recognized by the medical community as being a causative factor. This should not be a shock to anyone....if it is....go back and read Carla's post regarding the IDSA. When BIG money is involved people will look the other way...

Almost every doctor on the panel had a conflict of interest, so the guidelines were written out of their financial interest rather than what is best for patients. Studies were biased and relevant studies that conflicted with their position were ignored.

You would think you would have heard more about this is there was any promise in it, but that's simply not the case in reality. The pharmaceutical/medical industry is BIG money and decisions aren't always made for the right reasons

All of this can also be said about the vaccine makers/supporters.

My point is that environmental triggers DO have the ability to affect the biochemistry of our bodies....which can result in irregularities (of all kinds). Something like this can trigger a gluten intolerance which has NOTHING to do with Celiac Disease.

I know this to be true because my own illness and resulting food intolerances were a direct result of toxic insults (mainly mercury).

Prior to the unsafe removal of two mercury fillings I did not suffer from food intolerance....or any type of health issue. I had no symptoms. I now have many biochemical irregularities and as a result I have many symptoms. I consider the gluten intolerance to be a symptom....as it was not an issue prior to the decline in my health (brought on by mercury exposure). I dont consider my gluten intolerance to be any different from what is seen in cases of autism (non-celiac of course).

Getting back to RiceGuy's statement:

It wouldn't be because of better detection or changes in the human genome, but the change in the food itself.

I would have to agree that the quality of wheat (and ALL food) has degraded but I dont believe that these changes are the only reason for such a high incidence of gluten intolerance.

We are exposed to MANY toxins on a daily basis....all of which can have some impact on our immune system, our genes, our ability to fight off infection, our ability to detoxify, our ability to digest food AND our ability to remain healthy.

It might be that wheat has become more "dangerous" over the years....or it might be that our bodies are dealing with a higher burden of toxic insults and therefore we are seeing the effects in the rise of chronic disease conditions, allergies, food intolerance, chronic infections (lyme), etc. etc.

There are more than 17,000 chemicals used in common household products, of which only 30% have been tested for safety.

The govt. does not require safety tests of chemicals for most use; therefore, of the approx. 85,000 chemicals on the market, complete toxicology data is available on only about 7% of those chemicals.

Each year chemical manufacturers release from 500 to 2,000 new synthetic chemicals in the market. They are not required to assure the public that these products are safe.

The EPA found that airborne chemical levels in the home were as much as 5 times higher than outside. Studies have linked more than 100 chemicals found in homes to a wide variety of medical conditions.

All of these chemicals and toxins have a cumulative effect in the body. Obviously as our exposure increases....the risk for disease increases right along with it.....particularly in those who might have genetic vulnerabilities.

It is known that mercury and heavy metals inactivate enzymes in the body. The enzyme (DPPIV) which is required for digesting gluten and casein is very sensitive to mercury. It is easily blocked by mercury. Impaired function of DPPIV results in undigested gluten and casein. This can result in severe symptoms while consuming these foods....particulary in children.

Knowing that I do have toxicity caused by heavy metals...and knowing that the symptoms developed shortly after exposure....leads me to believe that this was not a condition triggered by gluten...but rather it was triggered by an environmental toxin.

We know that mercury is capable of causing a gluten intolerance in several ways...by impairing function of DPPIV, by destroying beneficial bacteria in the gut and creating a situation of yeast overgrowth and dysbiosis, by causing biochemical irregularities, by creating an environment which leads to gut infections and leaky gut, etc.

What do we know about all of these other chemicals/toxins we're exposed to on top of the heavy metals??

The answer is....not much.

[BRUMI1968]

I want to admit up front that I have not read this post. I am going off the title.

I am reading a book called "Our Daily Meds" which I would suggest to you all. (Melody Petersen). You can 100% bet the mortgage that with 1 in 133 Americans probably suffering Celiac, drug companies are going to start selling their snake oil all across America. I for one will not be listening at all.

I would not take any drug that any company claimed to heal my Celiac. (Nor would I give my daughter lactaid to help my kids digest milk --an argument I have with my sister all the time). Gluten is not good for anyone. Just because my body is smart enough to figure it out and go on strike, I'm not going to argue with it. I trust my body. I trust in my own abilities to take care of a disease that is curable through diet.

(did that all sound weird? like I'm mad or something? this book is ticking me off, not this post, I didn't even read it.)

anyway, good book.

[Rachel--24]

Rachel, I don't doubt you at all. It is great you have found answers and can eat gluten again. You have DQ1 and DQ3. Are they DQ5 and/or DQ7 by chance?

These are my Enterolab results:

Fecal Antigliadin IgA 16 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Fecal Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 15 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Microscopic Fecal Fat Score: 912 Units (Normal Range < 300 Units)

HLA-DQ Gene Molecular analysis: HLA-DQB1*0301, 0501

I really havent put alot of effort into understanding how to translate the genes. I was told I'm DQ1 and DQ3. Alot of people have suggested that my DQ1 might place me in the very small percentage of those who are biopsy proven Celiacs without DQ2 or DQ8.

I believe that would be highly unlikely based on everything I just mentioned in my previous post...along with "textbook perfect villi" (in the words of the GI) and negative bloodwork.

The malabsorption was not caused by gluten since it did not resolve on the gluten-free diet.

[gfp]

Not to go completely off-topic, but...

I wish to know who is responsible for starting this false belief. Sure, people did die more often from relatively survivable diseases, but also from wars, etc, not to mention horrendous plagues. But in the case of many diseases it was mostly due to ignorance, poor hygiene, etc.

A few examples:

Open Original Shared Link lived to over 70

Open Original Shared Link lived to over 70

Open Original Shared Link lived to over 77

I'm no historian, and I don't know the names of very many people from past centuries, but these surely aren't the only people to have lived to such age.

----------End of Detour--------------------

Pliny lived to 80 and was so obese he had to be carried ... but these are exceptions not average life expectancies.

People had 10-12 Children and 2-3 lived ... many many people died in infancy.

I have a family tree on my father's side back to 1218... his cousin was a professional genealogist when you look back at the lives even 200 years ago its incredible the amount of children dying.

This is just the first google on life expectancy tudor ... Open Original Shared Link

So yes some people lived longer ...

Life in Tudor Britain was harsh - the average life expectancy was just 35 years.

So the chance is you or I would not be here. Indeed statistically we would likely never have been born since our grandparents or parents would have died...

The reason I feel so strongly about this is having worked in third world countries with limited supplies of vaccines and antibiotics. I have seen mothers who have walked for several days to get their child to a real doctor ... and this was entirely preventable.

We take these things for granted ....

Poor hygine and sanitation don't help but lack of antibiotics and vaccines is what causes many plagues... when something treatable by 20c worth of antibiotocs gets loose and there is no medicine to stop it spreading. In other words it turns a local disease into something that spreads uncontrollably i.e. "plague".

So IMHO its so easy to knock antibiotics, and some people now seem to regard them as some sort of "Evil" ... but without them our "civilised" lives would be significantly shorter on average.

p.s. I chose Tudor times because people were largely agrarian. In other words they were not crowded into cities with poor sanitation.

[Rachel--24]

Poor hygine and sanitation don't help but lack of antibiotics and vaccines is what causes many plagues... when something treatable by 20c worth of antibiotocs gets loose and there is no medicine to stop it spreading. In other words it turns a local disease into something that spreads uncontrollably i.e. "plague".

So IMHO its so easy to knock antibiotics, and some people now seem to regard them as some sort of "Evil" ... but without them our "civilised" lives would be significantly shorter on average.

Antibiotics and vaccines are definately necessary.....however, now we are at the opposite end. Now we're living in a time where antibiotics are abused and we are over vaccinating our children. These things may have increased life expectancy but now we are destroying our quality of life because we are abusing these things and it does have an impact on the immune system.

Too many vaccinations given in a short time is a huge stress on the immune system. The immune system is not yet fully developed and children are being injected with toxins such as mercury at doses much higher than some can tolerate. Genetic vulnerabilities, large doses of toxins, the introduction of several live viruses at once, a suppressed immune system....its not difficult to see how this can all be very damaging.

And then come the antibiotics to treat the infections that are inevitable when the immune system is burdened by toxins.

Antibiotics are often given for infections which they are not even meant to treat. They are given for yeast infections....yet antibiotics actually promote yeast problems and do not treat yeast at all. They are given for viruses even though they are ineffective against a virus. They are even given when there is no proof of infection AT ALL.

Unless a definate diagnosis of bacteria infection is made....there is no reason to take antibiotics... in fact the antibiotics can make a person's situation much worse. I was given antibiotics after my dental work..."in case" an infection were to develop. Nevermind the huge amounts of mercury vapor I'd just been exposed to....lets not worry about that...thats not as dangerous as a bacteria infection that *might* occur.

So the mercury did a number on my immune system, my gut, my endocrine system, my brain, etc. etc....and the antibiotics were just like throwing gasoline on the fire. It was all very damaging to my health.

After all this my Dr.'s advised me to NOT receive a flu shot....or any vaccine containing mercury unless I wanted to significantly worsen my condition.

I think the safety of antibiotics and vaccinations is definately up in the air nowadays....there are risks involved that may have not been present in earlier times.

[Guest digmom1014]

"There is definitely an increase in the occurance of gluten intolerance.....I'm not convinced that this is based solely on awareness or better diagnostic capabilities." quote from Rachel 24 (obviously I don't know how to quote)

As a kindergarten teacher for 10 years- and then again just this fall, almost 10 years later. I have to agree that something is going on. Of the six full day kindergarten classes we had this year, each teacher had at least 3 children with medical or allergic problems. Enough to have an EPI-pen in the classroom or need for periodic visits from a school nurse. I did not have this in the early 90's and neither did any of my piers.

Let's not exclude the early maturation of some of the little girls or the need for many of the children wearing glasses. I'm not sure of all of the medical backing, ya'all seem to have delved into that more than I have. But, as a casual observer dealing with the next generation, something needs to be done.

[gfp]

Antibiotics and vaccines are definately necessary.....however, now we are at the opposite end. Now we're living in a time where antibiotics are abused and we are over vaccinating our children. These things may have increased life expectancy but now we are destroying our quality of life because we are abusing these things and it does have an impact on the immune system.

Too many vaccinations given in a short time is a huge stress on the immune system. The immune system is not yet fully developed and children are being injected with toxins such as mercury at doses much higher than some can tolerate. Genetic vulnerabilities, large doses of toxins, the introduction of several live viruses at once, a suppressed immune system....its not difficult to see how this can all be very damaging.

I agree wholeheartedly ... however I think there are vaccines and vaccines...and non-disclosed financial interests!!

Quite honestly I have seen countries with the absense of ready vaccines and anti-biotics and its an eye opener ... or perhaps eye wetter is more apt.

Being serious for a minute... this is a problem of mass medicine... I guess an easy way to explain it is in the "time management" context...

Some tasks are non-urgent and non-important, others are urgent but not important, others not urgent but important and others urgent and important.

Most tasks fall somewhere inbetween but to manage them efficiently we are told to classify them into one of these four boxes.

Doing the same for vaccines ... some are killers but rare, others are "inconvenient/uncomfortable" and rare then we have killers and common and inconvenient and common. (By inconvenient I mean they are unlikely to be fatal or leave you needing constant medical care, obviously more than an inconvenience if YOU get one but inconvenient for the economy )

Now this is all fine and dandy... except just because something is RARE now in the US (or UK or...) doesn't mean it always will be... this is the problem. If a significant proportion of the population is un-vaccinated then it can go from a single case to an epidemic. The UK used to have virtually no TB... it was vacinated away ... then we had a huge influx of Asians who were unvaccinated. Now TB is on the rise... still most of the population is vaccinated so it stay under an epidemic but there will be a critical point where enough people are not (especially in specific immigrant communities) where this is just bubbling away waiting to explode.

(It doesn't help thee communities regularly visit areas with TB and shun vaccination) (Its also actually ironic that the first "vaccinations recorded" come from the same region....)

Being a freak I am using one disease I cannot get since I am naturally immune... so no bias from me... but the problem is further complicated by the vaccinations not being 100% effective.

This is such a sticky subject because it infringes on human rights whichever way you look at it!

Firstly, if too many people opt out then sooner or later a single case will spread.

Secondly, even if I get my kids immunised (well I don't have any and supposing they don't inherit my immunity) then you not getting your kids immunised could be the stepping stone that spreads it to school and my kids getting TB.

So the "country or statewide" edict that kids must be immunised against x,y,Z has some validity... unfortunately I know from Fiddle-Faddle that the amount of immunisations required in NY is not x,y,x but A thru Z ad beyond!

This is the concept gone mad! But IMHO it doesn't mean the whole concept is flawed...

And then come the antibiotics to treat the infections that are inevitable when the immune system is burdened by toxins.

Antibiotics are often given for infections which they are not even meant to treat. They are given for yeast infections....yet antibiotics actually promote yeast problems and do not treat yeast at all. They are given for viruses even though they are ineffective against a virus. They are even given when there is no proof of infection AT ALL.

Unless a definate diagnosis of bacteria infection is made....there is no reason to take antibiotics... in fact the antibiotics can make a person's situation much worse. I was given antibiotics after my dental work..."in case" an infection were to develop. Nevermind the huge amounts of mercury vapor I'd just been exposed to....lets not worry about that...thats not as dangerous as a bacteria infection that *might* occur.

I agree but you are "personalising".... (no offence meant I'm just blunt as you know). In your case the ignorance of the mercury poisioning was IMHO the real problem not the post dental anti-biotics but the pre-antibiotic thinking....

I grew up with an inventors shed in my garden (If you ever so Wallace and Gromit its about 101% accurate ) and my father had a lot of dangerous machines, chemicals and .. well lethal stuff from high explosives to a silver purification plant and a working industrial laser ... (I know how that sounds but its true).

He had a big sign i the shed/garage "Engage brain before operating machinery"

IMHO this is what needs to flash on the Dr.s Screen or be written on the script pad... "Engage brain before dispensing anti-biotics"

Post operative antibiotics do save a lot of lives and limbs... to go back to rice guy's av. age. .. Yes people did have successful operations before.... people had amputations and arrows removed from brains and lived... BUT a heck of a lot developed infections and died...

So the mercury did a number on my immune system, my gut, my endocrine system, my brain, etc. etc....and the antibiotics were just like throwing gasoline on the fire. It was all very damaging to my health.

After all this my Dr.'s advised me to NOT receive a flu shot....or any vaccine containing mercury unless I wanted to significantly worsen my condition.

I think the safety of antibiotics and vaccinations is definately up in the air nowadays....there are risks involved that may have not been present in earlier times.

True but the maxim "Engage brain before dispensing anti-biotics" might actually go a long way if people stopped and thought.

There is a world of difference to having say four wisdom teeth removed and mercury fillings removed.

I am probably one of the people who stays WELL away from antibiotics... and I sometimes go too far.... I admitted it once on here but last time I got a 2 week huge dose made me sicker than a dog... but this is largely because I refused my GP's previous 3-4 antibiotics for the same sinus infection that after 1 year was just draining me! Because I then needed such a huge dose I also needed anti-fungals which did nothing to make me feel well either but to inhibit the fungus taking advantage of the antibiotics and colonising my sinus'

So I am not pro-antibiotics ... I am just not into demonising them for all our woes... because truth be told most of us wouldn't be here without them because one of our recent ancestors would have died...

My view is they are a double edged sword and should be used with caution but they can and are lifesavers! (I also had a friend die from bacterial meningitis which could have been treated by antibiotics)

[Rachel--24]

As a kindergarten teacher for 10 years- and then again just this fall, almost 10 years later. I have to agree that something is going on. Of the six full day kindergarten classes we had this year, each teacher had at least 3 children with medical or allergic problems. Enough to have an EPI-pen in the classroom or need for periodic visits from a school nurse. I did not have this in the early 90's and neither did any of my piers.

I dont have a job where I'm around children all day but I DO know for sure that in all my years of schooling I did not know of any kids in my class (or in the entire school for that matter) who had food allergies. None of my friends required special diets and none of them were sick.

Its completely different today and its not because people are more aware of food intolerance. These problems just werent as prevelant. I had never heard of Autism until a few years ago....it was unheard of while I was growing up...and now its considered an epidemic.

Something is definately having a profound effect on the immune system at a very early age. More than likely its not just *one* thing contributing but a multitude of things.

I look at all of my friends who have children...alot of them seem to have some health issues. l feel that alot of people do not give a second thought as to why so many kids have asthma, food allergies, ADD, autoimmune disease, etc. etc....its as if this is "normal".

All I know is that I did not see any of this while I was growing up. I'm not saying that these conditions did not exist.....but they certainly werent common.....not like what I'm seeing today.

Allergies and food intolerance are often the result of toxic insults.

[Rachel--24]

I agree but you are "personalising".... (no offence meant I'm just blunt as you know). In your case the ignorance of the mercury poisioning was IMHO the real problem not the post dental anti-biotics but the pre-antibiotic thinking....

I might be personalising but how many people have (or have had) mercury fillings in their mouth?? The answer is ALOT.

And how many of those people have also been given antibiotics? The answer is MOST.

So how can anyone REALLY know for sure that the next round of antibiotics they take wont be the straw that broke the camels back....pushing that person into a state of chronic illness?

How does any parent REALLY know for sure that the next vaccine their child recieves wont be the straw that broke the camels back...pushing that child into Autism.

I dont consider my own experience to be "one in a million".

The ignorance of mercury in general is a problem in my IMHO.

My point is that our bodies are able to cope with some amount of toxic exposure...however, nowadays we are exposed to a MUCH higher amount of toxicity from too many sources to even attempt to list here. Mercury is the second most toxic element on the planet....and it also has the ability to make it much harder for our bodies to handle additional toxins. In my opinion thats a huge problem given the amount of toxic substances we're all exposed to on a daily basis.

These are the types of things that can cripple the immune system and set us up for all sorts of health issues. I know of many people who are toxic from heavy metals, chemicals, chronic infections, etc.....I dont know ANYONE who is toxic and yet has no allergies or food intolerances. Toxicity and allergies go hand in hand. Mercury and allergies go hand in hand.

ALL of my sensitivities and food intolerances showed up after my dental work...I had no intolerances prior to that. This is not to say that I would never have reached my threshold...or that I would have never experienced any health issues if not for that one incident. These things build up over time...I was exposed to mercury even before I was born (mom had 11 fillings). This one incident just pushed me over the edge...it was too much. In most cases symptoms appear much more gradually.

Looking at the world around me and the rise in food intolerance, allergies, chronic illness, etc....I cant really look at my own situation as a "rare occurance".

[Calicoe]

Again, this is sort of a hit-and-run post, but I have to agree with Rachel, Carla and digmom above - something is not right. There are definitely more environmental pollutant, but I think there are things going on with our food that have not yet made it into our public information system yet. Maybe I am paranoid, or maybe I am just a seasoned cynic, but with all of the talk of genetically modified food, chemicals, and big agribusiness, I wonder if tampering with grains as well as pesticides in foods has thrown more of us over the threshold a lot earlier, in addition to being more aware, which is inevitable with every generation.

One thing for sure, I know the thousands of parents suing on vaccine damage to their children sure weren't hallucinating, but someone probably told them they were at first:

Open Original Shared Link

October 2007 New England Journal of Medicine - Vaccine Damage: Parents receive $2B compensation pay-outs - Vaccine manufacturers have paid out nearly $2B in damages to parents in America whose children were harmed by one of the childhood jabs such as the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) or DPT (diphtheria-pertussis-tetanus). In all, around 2,000 families have received compensation payments that have averaged $850,000 each. There are a further 700 claims that are going through the pipeline. None of the claims is for autism as medical researchers say they have failed to find a link between the disease and the MMR vaccine, despite the initial findings made by Dr Andrew Wakefield. Instead they are for a wide spectrum of physical and mental conditions that are likely to have been caused by one of the vaccinations. Around 7,000 parents have filed a claim of an adverse reaction with America's Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP). To win an award, the claimant must prove a causal link to a vaccine. As the medical establishment has refused to recognise any link to autism, the VICP has so far rejected 300 claims for this outright. (Source: New England Journal of Medicine, 2007; 357: 1275-9). U.S. Government Concedes That Mercury Causes Autism

US senators fast-track a bill to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation - Seven US Senators introduced a bill to protect vaccine manufacturers from thousands of pending federal lawsuits filed by parents of vaccine-damaged children. On the eve of an historic, billion-dollar world vaccination campaign, a leaked transcript ignites questions of vaccine safety and research corruption. Meanwhile, US senators fast-track a bill to protect vaccine manufacturers from litigation. With millions of lives at stake, and billions of dollars to lose, will a merger of philanthropy, big business and compromised science win an epic race between corporate agendas and medical ethics? In this world exclusive report, byronchild exposes how the most powerful medical research bodies in the United States compromise their vaccine safety research for vested interests, as they assist in a global vaccine policy, while a bill looms in the background to protect it all.

[Calicoe]

And something else that worries me profusely: CODEX ALIMENTARIUS

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Codex Alimentarius Summarized

1) Started in 1962 by UN, Imposed by WTO Sanctions

Codex Alimentarius was created in 1962 as a trade Commission by the UN to control the international trade of food. Its initial intentions may have been altruistic but it has been taken over by corporate interests, most notably the pharmaceutical, pesticide, biotechnology and chemical industries.

Codex Alimentarius is backed up by the crippling trade sanctions of the World Trade Organization (WTO). Any non Codex-compliant nation would face huge economic punishment since they would automatically lose in any food-trade dispute with a Codex compliant country.

2)

[Calicoe]

I agree wholeheartedly ... however I think there are vaccines and vaccines...and non-disclosed financial interests!!

This is such a sticky subject because it infringes on human rights whichever way you look at it!

Firstly, if too many people opt out then sooner or later a single case will spread.

Secondly, even if I get my kids immunised (well I don't have any and supposing they don't inherit my immunity) then you not getting your kids immunised could be the stepping stone that spreads it to school and my kids getting TB.

"Engage brain before dispensing anti-biotics"

My view is they are a double edged sword and should be used with caution but they can and are lifesavers! (I also had a friend die from bacterial meningitis which could have been treated by antibiotics)

GFP:

I also agree with your post as well. I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't think anyone here was completely AGAINST antibiotics, just the lazy and irresponsible way they have been dispensed by our Health Managed Organizations (HMOs) and associated medical culture. They are literally corporations that can't be bothered with actually healing people. So they prescribe a pill, and that is "efficient" for them and profitable for the pharmaceuticals who reward pill-pushing doctors.

I lived in Asia for 4 years working with refugees, and I do have some background and immediate experience with the infectious population and situation that you discuss in the UK.

However, I know the healthcare system in the UK and most of Western Europe is different than here in the U.S., whereby they have incorporated integrative health responses as well. Here in the U.S., there is a genuine crisis in healthcare, and unfortunately, having it doesn't protect you from the crisis.

Hence, the sense of paranoia that you may perceive from some of us, because over here, it really isn't paranoia - health care irresponsibility and denial is a fact.

[gfp]

GFP:

I also agree with your post as well. I haven't read the entire thread, but I don't think anyone here was completely AGAINST antibiotics, just the lazy and irresponsible way they have been dispensed by our Health Managed Organizations (HMOs) and associated medical culture. They are literally corporations that can't be bothered with actually healing people. So they prescribe a pill, and that is "efficient" for them and profitable for the pharmaceuticals who reward pill-pushing doctors.

I lived in Asia for 4 years working with refugees, and I do have some background and immediate experience with the infectious population and situation that you discuss in the UK.

However, I know the healthcare system in the UK and most of Western Europe is different than here in the U.S., whereby they have incorporated integrative health responses as well. Here in the U.S., there is a genuine crisis in healthcare, and unfortunately, having it doesn't protect you from the crisis.

Hence, the sense of paranoia that you may perceive from some of us, because over here, it really isn't paranoia - health care irresponsibility and denial is a fact.

Calicoe, there have been quite a few threads that have turned into "antibiotics are evil" etc. and the problem I feel is that people should be able to make a educated decision for themselves ... hence I try and add some "balance" for the person who browses the thread and picks up the vibe ALL antibiotcs are ALWAYS bad.

The UK health system is itelf in crisis ... its hard to make one to one comparisons other than to say its next to useless ... but perhaps in different ways to the US one.

My friend came back from Thailand with a stomach problem and it took her a while to even confront the whole registering with a GP. (Primary care)

Quite honestly its made so difficult its offputting.

From the time she actually got the paperwork in to actually seeing a doctor took her another 2 WEEKS! I know a lot of people here will know what it feels like to have 2 weeks of being afraid to eat anything... she couldn't sleep for reflux and by the time she saw a GP was 10x worse than when she started the process.

Codex Alimentarius Summarized

I have been saying the same thing ... for quite a while now.

[susieg-1]

All this talk of mercury in vaccines has me wondering about my own symptoms that have not subsided wiht gluten-free diet. I believe a flu vaccine was given just prior to the onset of symptoms!! Thanks for this thread as it gives me a clue to what direction to take next in my quest for good health

[gfp]

All this talk of mercury in vaccines has me wondering about my own symptoms that have not subsided wiht gluten-free diet. I believe a flu vaccine was given just prior to the onset of symptoms!! Thanks for this thread as it gives me a clue to what direction to take next in my quest for good health

From the CDC

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s. There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

[Rachel--24]

From the CDC

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s. There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

Unfortunately this information isnt completely accurate. Again, what we are told is not always the reality.....and what we are told is not always in the best interest of our health. Go back to Carla's post regarding the IDSA for a perfect example of this.

Here is some accurate information regarding the mercury content in vaccines today (2008).

Are ALL Vaccines Now Mercury-Free?

NO! They're NOT!

That's another cry you hear over and over again: that "we've now removed mercury from all vaccines".

[Rachel--24]

All this talk of mercury in vaccines has me wondering about my own symptoms that have not subsided wiht gluten-free diet. I believe a flu vaccine was given just prior to the onset of symptoms!! Thanks for this thread as it gives me a clue to what direction to take next in my quest for good health

I do believe that thimerosal in the flu shot can tip the scales for some people. My own Dr.'s advised me to NOT ever get a flu shot unless I wanted to significantly worsen my condition.

I believe the highest exposure comes from amalgam fillings....as they continuously release mercury vapor. Vaccines are an "all at once" type of exposure...but can definately be too much for someone who is unable to excrete it....like what is seen in cases of Autism.

All of my Dr.'s have stated (with regards to toxicity) that the "event" which triggers the onset of symptoms is very rarely the cause of the illness. Toxicity is building up in all the years prior to the onset of symptoms. Chronic symptoms only appear when the burden becomes too high and the immune system becomes overwhelmed.

Everything piles up...I think of it like stacking one book on top of another, and another, and another. Eventually the "pile" is too high and everything comes crashing down. Its the same thing with toxins and health. Toxins are "stressors" and eventually if there are too many stressors our immune system may lose its ability to cope with all of it...at that point we can lose our good health.

I do think its important to trust your instinct. For me, it was the unsafe removal of fillings...that was when it all came crashing down. All of the Dr.'s and dentists dismissed my thoughts and my feelings for the first few years that I was sick. I never gave up....I read everything I could find, I did as much research as my brain could handle....I eventually ended up working with some very knowledgeable Dr.'s and now I can finally say that I'm getting better.

My health has improved alot in the past 6 months. After being sort of "stuck" for a long period of time I feel that I'm now on the road to recovery.

Dont give up!

[Rachel--24]

This is an example of why we cant always trust that what we are told is the whole truth. Nowadays we need to protect ourselves by becoming informed....and by making informed decisions about things like amalgam fillings, vaccinations, antibiotics, etc.

-----------------------------------

Who is Dr. Paul Offit?

Some of you may recognize the name of Dr. Paul Offit, as he is a fairly frequent commentator for the pro-vaccination camp. But what do you know about Dr. Offit?

Dr. Offit, is not just a doctor who believes that vaccinations save lives.

Dr. Offit is also one of the patent holders of the rotavirus vaccine (Patent Application number 353547), and the recipient of a $350,000 grant from Merck for its development. Additionally, he is a consultant to Merck Pharmaceuticals.

Talk about conflict of interest.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) is a 15 member panel of immunization experts, selected by the Secretary of the U. S. Department of Health and Human Services. They provide advice and guidelines to the Secretary for Health the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on vaccine-preventable diseases.

As a member of the ACIP, starting in 1998, Dr. Offit voted

[home-based-mom]

Unless a definate diagnosis of bacteria infection is made....there is no reason to take antibiotics... in fact the antibiotics can make a person's situation much worse. I was given antibiotics after my dental work..."in case" an infection were to develop. Nevermind the huge amounts of mercury vapor I'd just been exposed to....lets not worry about that...thats not as dangerous as a bacteria infection that *might* occur.

My dentist routinely prescribes antibiotics *before* dental work. I used to think that was ridiculous overkill, to say the least. But then I became aware of TWO PERSONAL ACQUAINTANCES (not his patients) who were hospitalized after having dental work. One of them, a perfectly healthy and vigorous man in his 50's died. DIED! From a routine trip to the dentist!

Now I don't bat an eyelash when the dentist writes the prescription because I have seen first hand what can go wrong.

Otherwise I agree completely that prescriptions for antibiotics are handed out far too often and without just cause. It is a definite problem,

[gfp]

I might be personalising but how many people have (or have had) mercury fillings in their mouth?? The answer is ALOT.

And how many of those people have also been given antibiotics? The answer is MOST.

However the part I think is wrong is that this is a "recent" phenomenon.

I think that this sentence is VERY misleading. First, mercury has never been proven to be "safe" at ANY level.

I absolutely agree ....

Mercury is the ONLY naturally occurring element that has no known use within the human body.

Stop for a second and think about that... there are a lot of supertoxic elements where even a tiny amount is fatal BUT even these have an actual use in the human body...(in tiny amounts).

However this is really not recent,

By far the largest mercury exposure today comes from amalgam fillings and thee have been around for almost 200 years.

Mercury has been used in medicine and cosmetics for over 2000 years! Ironically it was taken to promote longevity in ancient Chinese and Indian traditional medicine. The Greeks, Romans and Egyptians used it in cosmetics. From the mid-18th to the mid-19thC it was used in a process for felt... (Mad as a Hatter) ...

from Wikipedia:

Historical uses: preserving wood, developing daguerreotypes, silvering mirrors, anti-fouling paints (discontinued in 1990), herbicides (discontinued in 1995), handheld maze games, cleaning, and road levelling devices in cars. Mercury compounds have been used in antiseptics, laxatives, antidepressants, and in antisyphilitics.

So I can't just think that environmental mercury is rising, indeed quite the inverse...

As for thimerosal ... what do we expect, the FDA to accept responsibility for being wrong? Seriously, that just isn't going to happen...

I posted the extract from the FDA as it actually say's it is used in Flu Vaccines and susieg had a flu vaccine! (I wasn't disagreeing at all simply providing the information that its still used in flu vaccines)

My dentist routinely prescribes antibiotics *before* dental work. I used to think that was ridiculous overkill, to say the least. But then I became aware of TWO PERSONAL ACQUAINTANCES (not his patients) who were hospitalized after having dental work. One of them, a perfectly healthy and vigorous man in his 50's died. DIED! ohmy.gif From a routine trip to the dentist!

This is the point... its easy to look back after no infection occurred but infections after dental work are dangerously close to the brain.

One of the remaining thimerosal containing vaccines is Meningococcal multi-dose vial

This is sometimes given without evidence of bacterial infection .... WHY ... because by the time the lab results come back the patient can be dead.

My friend and mentor died because he wasn't given this... so my turn to personalise....

We all grew up with a lot more environmental mercury and our grandparents still more... wood preservatives was huge, especially for people living in wood houses...

But its not only mercury, for instance my Grandma had lead pipes for the hot water.