Just Looking For Someone To Listen

[Sweetfudge]

Not really sure what's wrong. Just been crying on and off for the last 24 hours. Kinda frustrated with my life, and wish I had someone to talk to.

Don't really feel like I can talk with my husband about what's going on. He is a really good guy, and I love him so much, but the issues I'm having kind of consist of things going on between us. My parents are both pretty busy, don't have much time to talk, and when I do talk with my mom, she helps me feel better, but I know she doesn't like my husband, and that's the main issue in my life. My only real friend is a girl I work with, who has been out of town all week. Didn't realize how lonely I was.

I used to have a lot of friends, but just kinda lost them all over the years. Don't really feel like I can just up and call them and unload.

That's one of my issues, is feeling alone. I've also been stressed at work, mainly because my friend/coworker is out of town, and so I've been handling a lot on my own, including training the very annoying new girl, who I've had to try and depend on, as well as teach everything (and who doesn't listen to ANYTHING, I'm not kidding).

My biggest frustration right now, though, is my marriage. I feel like I'm failing. I feel like I'm losing my husband. For the last 4 1/2 years (and the year before, when we were dating) he has pretty much carried me through life. I was in such a bad place, and it's taken me so long to get out of there. I feel like I'm finally climbing out of that hole, but now I have so much responsibility to take on.

I finally got a fulltime job a year and half ago, and have been able to hang on to that, and last year made as much as he did (granted he had a very bad year as far as work, and only made about half what he normally does). I'm starting to get more in shape, still not happy with my body, but I feel like I'm improving (VERY slowly).

But I've struggled with keeping the house clean, and with our intimate life. Was never very good about housework, but we used to have a great relationship, as far as that goes.

I just feel overwhelmed because I'm trying to change everything, and feel like I'm improving in some areas, but not enough in others. I'm really trying hard, I just get lazy and selfish sometimes, and then things don't get done. I don't know how to commit myself to my life 100%.

It's not like he's given me any ultimatum, but he is very frustrated with the way things have turned out, and is worried that I won't change. I understand that he's tired of carrying all the weight in our marriage. And I even understand why he sometimes feels resentment toward me, I know I would if I were him. We fight all the time, and I hate it.

I guess I'm just scared, and really, really lonely. I wish I knew what to do, how to make things better, and how to be happy.

I don't even know why I've been so upset. I worked REALLY hard yesterday, deep cleaning the kitchen, doing laundry, yardwork, working out for an hour and a half. It felt so good, but I still felt like it wasn't enough. Not that he said it wasn't. He actually told me several times how grateful he was that I did so much, how nice everything looked, and how awesome I am. I just feel so far away from him, and I hate that.

Anyway, sorry this is so long. Anyone who reads it, thanks, and let me know what you think.

[Jestgar]

Hi Sweetie,

I know you've posted before about issues in your life and I first want to say that you are a very impressive young woman to be able to deal with what life has given you and also be willing to work towards making things better.

Can you remove some of your burdens? Since both of you have full time jobs, can you get a house keeper? Even once a month would take a lot of the stress off. And your coworker will come back. That'll help at work.

Do you think that your husband isn't satisfied with you? Or you aren't satisfied with you? Maybe after being sick for so long, you've lost your confidence? Is there someone you can talk to about that?

Can you talk some of these things over with your husband? Not asking for his help, since you say you already feel like he's carrying a lot of your life, but asking him what he feels like is missing from your marriage (note the words I chose NOT missing from you, missing from your marriage). You are a team, and maybe what you think he wants isn't what he thinks he wants.

Anyway, glad you could vent here. I know it always helps me.

[lizard00]

Yeah, I ditto jestgar. Can you talk to him about what's weighing on your mind? I know I often feel overwhelmed with housework, working, having a 3 yr old, and then being sick on top of that. It's better now, but we made a list of things that had to be done, and who was going to do it. If you can't handle all the housework on your own, and quite honestly, you shouldn't have to, ask him to help with specific things. Little things can add up to mean a lot. In reality, the best thing to do is sometimes the hardest, talk to him about it all. That's really the way that you both can know what's going on, and he can't help you with your problems if he doesn't know how you feel.

And about talking to your mom, don't get me wrong, mom's are great. But when it comes to marital problems they aren't always the best. You can forgive and move on; but when you tell your parents what frustrates you about your husband, they can't always move on. You are their daughter, and naturally are more protective and less willing to forgive if they feel you aren't being treated as the princess they know you are.

Just my experience...

And sometimes, when it comes down to it, we're women and we have days where we want to cry. That's just the way it is sometimes, and we don't know why.

[CarlaB]

I agree with the other two posters ... talk with your husband. Not like you're unloading, but like a friend. He should be your best friend that you tell everything to. Now that your friend from work is out of town, perhaps you are seeing how much you should be talking to your husband about but don't.

He would want to know that this stuff bothers you, too. He would want to know that you care about this stuff and your relationship with him.

I think the others are right, too, that it may really be you who is not satisfied with you and who puts too high of demands on you.

Please talk to your husband.

[DingoGirl]

I agree with what everyone else has said (um - not married here - but just an observer of all my friends - who ARE married!)

It sounds like you are exhausted and overwhelmed......one thing that could really help that is having someone come in to clean, as Jess said - even once a month. And you know, whatever we do - it never really IS enough - there is always more! Things are never done.....we just have to do the best we can.

A counselor could really help you also - - just someone you can unload on, that's not your mother or your friend.....an objective party who can see things from a non-emotionally connected aspect.

And yeah, talk to your husband about things, too, see what he needs in the marriage.....and talk about what you need also.

Are you getting enough sleep? Lack of sleep can make everything seem much worse.

Take care of yourself, and vent all you like here.

[tarnalberry]

when I read your post, I see expectations screaming out at me. whose expectations are they? what does it matter if some of those expectations aren't met? (if you get an F in life for not having a clean house, please give me my F now, 'cause I'm not sure that's a test worth passing.)

ok, that parenthetical really is my point, I suppose. particularly when it comes to being between the two of you, you guys should consider talking openly about your expectations and assumptions for each other and what "life looks like". no unspoken assumptions (like "a clean house means this and that" - because 'clean' can, and does, mean different things to different people), no value judgments on the other person's expectations/assumptions, no taking things personally; just an open, honest conversation about your own opinions.

and I don't mean "sit down and have a conversation". this is, at least from my experience and the feedback I've gotten from psychologists, is an ongoing conversation that lasts your whole marriage/life. my husband and I are on year 8 of ours. I'm not saying it always goes well, or flows easily, or even works properly. but you keep going for it. and sometimes, in that conversation, you might make some agreements ("oh, you mean this by clean; I mean that by clean. together, when we're cleaning our house, we'll mean this thing, ok? ok.")

it also sounds like you may need to forgive yourself for not meeting your old expectations, even as you try to build more reasonable ones. just as you would grant other people the space and time and respect to be who they need to be in order to grow, grant that to yourself. understanding yourself, improving yourself, making changes you want to make (and are right for you - which isn't necessarily the same as the ones you want to make) takes time - it's a lifetime of effort. respect each stage of yourself on that path as being fully you, but on a journey. the goal isn't nearly as important as the journey, and if you get too attached to achieving the goal (some particular way of being, a picture of life as you want it, some state of equity or some other thing), you'll always find a way to judge yourself coming up short, because the goal is subjective.

(wow... my yoga philosophy studies are coming out. abhyasa/vairagya - practice and non-attachment (Yoga sutra I.12 abhyasa vairagyabhyam tat nirodhah says "Practice and non-attachment still the fluctuations of the mind."))

[kenlove]

Let me try to offer a male perspective. After 32 years of carrying each other though life's ups and downs I can say that its been and continues to be worth the struggle. If there are no bad times one cant really appreciate the good. As a male even in today's world we are constantly bombarded with images of the past and they way things were. It

[Ursa Major]

You've got excellent advice already, there isn't much I can add, other than that I sympathize with you.

What does stand out to me is, that you do NOTHING that is any fun! Everybody needs to have something they can do on a regular basis that is fun.

For the first twenty+ years of my marriage my husband pretty much didn't allow me to have any fun at all. The rule was, that as long as the house wasn't perfect, I wasn't allowed to do anything fun. For twenty years I didn't even play my recorders!

But I am absolutely INCAPABLE of keeping the house perfect. I can't even get close! Five years ago I was finally diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome and Asperger Syndrome. Which come (in my case) with executive dysfunction. I can't be organized. I am unable to multi-task.

Now that I realize that, I had to say to my husband (who doesn't believe in AS, even though he was there when I was diagnosed by the way, he thinks I am just lazy and don't care) that I WILL do things that I enjoy, because the house will NEVER be perfect. And it is too depressing to try to live up to his standards.

So, the first thing I did a few years ago, was to join a table tennis club. I played once a week, made new friends and just loved it. Unfortunately I broke my ankle, and then got really sick with celiac disease and because of my adrenal glands and thyroid not working right can't play any more.

But now I take recorder lessons. I was also taking violin lessons, but had to give those up, and can't start again because I lost my babysitter job (the family moved). Right now I can't get another job, as I am too unwell, and my husband will only grudgingly pay for the recorder lessons, but not violin ones as well.

And now that I was finally able to get some new furniture of my own choosing (due to inheriting some money), and some new curtains, my house finally feels like MY house. Before, all of our furniture (yes, all of it) was hand-me-downs from my mother-in-law, who doesn't share my taste. I like the way things look, which helps me actually be motivated to at least keep the downstairs tidy enough so anybody can come any time, and I won't feel bad.

Anyway, what is my point? Sometimes we try too hard to meet our own, or somebody else's expectations. Maybe, instead of working out for an hour and a half each day, you might want to consider joining a sports club (if there is a sport you really enjoy) and have FUN while you exercise! Plus those clubs are fabulous for making new friends.

Or you might want to take music lessons, or start a scrap-booking group (my oldest daughter goes to scrapbooking and loves it). Or whatever it is that you would just love doing, but might not believe that you 'earned' having any fun, because you aren't perfect enough!

You need to have some fun in your life which is not dependent on your husband. In fact, you both should have things you do together, and things you do apart and independent of each other. And I don't mean work, I mean things you actually love.

Once you do some things you don't do solely to improve yourself, but rather to enjoy yourself, you will feel much better about life.

[confused]

You have gotten wonderful advice already. I just wanted to add one thing. I think you need to write him a letter and have him write you an letter. You each go into different rooms to read the letters when you are done and then after some time, go and talk about the letter you each wrote and received. Do not take 10 minutes to write the latter. Take an whole weekend to really think about what you want to say and have him do the same.

You can also PM me for advice. I am an counselor, even tho i have put my career on hold to raise my kids.

paula

[Sweetfudge]

thanks everyone for your encouraging words. i don't have much time to respond, but wanted to say that this has helped me feel a lot better. i'll definitely talk w/ my hubby about things. we've talked about us/me seeing a counselor. when we were first married, i saw a couple, but hubby was put out by one who was encouraging me to leave him because i didn't feel the same about him that i used to. i'll see if i can get back there. it would be nice to get an outside perspective on things, without being judged or feel like he's being judged.

i do try and have fun, but part of my problem is that i'm kinda lazy. used to use it as a crutch to not get things done, and it's still hard for me sometimes. i don't have a lot of motivation to do things (workout, clean). for fun i cook, i read, i garden, i watch movies, and do stuff with hubby.

here's a question for the group. what can we do for fun together? we used to do all sorts of outdoor/physical activities, but i'm kinda out of shape, and we don't do much of that anymore. we watch movies, go out to eat, play warcraft (a computer game)...and sit around saying "i dunno, what do you wanna do"...

paula - what would you recommend we focus these letters on? our concerns, our hopes, what?

thanks again all! you definitely gave me some excellent, much needed and appreciated advice!

[Ursa Major]

There is lots you can do together. Go to the theatre, or just for a walk in the park. Or go to the zoo. Or a concert, go camping, or rent a boat/canoe on a river/lake and just enjoy a day on the water. Go fishing together (if you like that sort of thing), or bird watching, go to a museum or an art gallery........ The possibilities are endless.

Even join a sports club together. There are a few couples in my table tennis club. They don't necessarily always play together, but they are there together, having fun and going out with the group afterwards.

If you like stars, buy a telescope and look at the stars together. I am sure others will come up with very different ideas.

[aikiducky]

Maybe not a fun thing, but useful in other ways - clean the house together. You get it done much quicker, you get to be together, and afterwards you have a clean house. Set a regular time like Saturday morning or something, and you don't have to worry about it the rest of the week.

Pauliina

[Guest digmom1014]

I have been married 18 years and it has been a rollar coaster. Sometimes, we are way up and sometimes so down, every little thing he does seems to bother you. I currently finished a down time and are on the way up again. You really need to give yourself a little more time to get on the upswing again. It may be tomorrow, it may be next month but, I guarantee it will happen.

I have found that doing things together like taking a walk watching t.v., going to restaurants, and just sitting on the front porch watching the world go by help a lot. It does not need to be planned or active-just spending time together is enough. Also having time apart to enjoy other activities gives us things to talk about when we are with each other. I am into the ecology protection, politics, and finance, which can lead to some lively discussions.

I agree with CarlaB-talk to your husband and Kenlove-you need to examine the 50's expectations you put on yourself to achieve. I just got a house cleaner last year and it has changed my life. You are so smart to have identified that already as a problem for you. Try it out for a month and see how you feel. In my area it is $95.00 every other week.

I think our sickness has a lot to do with depression and please feel free to vent whenever you need.

[JNBunnie1]

thanks everyone for your encouraging words. i don't have much time to respond, but wanted to say that this has helped me feel a lot better. i'll definitely talk w/ my hubby about things. we've talked about us/me seeing a counselor. when we were first married, i saw a couple, but hubby was put out by one who was encouraging me to leave him because i didn't feel the same about him that i used to. i'll see if i can get back there. it would be nice to get an outside perspective on things, without being judged or feel like he's being judged.

i do try and have fun, but part of my problem is that i'm kinda lazy. used to use it as a crutch to not get things done, and it's still hard for me sometimes. i don't have a lot of motivation to do things (workout, clean). for fun i cook, i read, i garden, i watch movies, and do stuff with hubby.

here's a question for the group. what can we do for fun together? we used to do all sorts of outdoor/physical activities, but i'm kinda out of shape, and we don't do much of that anymore. we watch movies, go out to eat, play warcraft (a computer game)...and sit around saying "i dunno, what do you wanna do"...

paula - what would you recommend we focus these letters on? our concerns, our hopes, what?

thanks again all! you definitely gave me some excellent, much needed and appreciated advice!

Laser tag! Paintball! Wall-climbing! The point is to get your blood moving so you're forced to get some exercise while you're having fun. That and there's the ever-eternal fun marital sport..... That'll get your blood moving. Trust me, he likes it when it's your idea.

[tarnalberry]

...

i do try and have fun, but part of my problem is that i'm kinda lazy. used to use it as a crutch to not get things done, and it's still hard for me sometimes. i don't have a lot of motivation to do things (workout, clean). for fun i cook, i read, i garden, i watch movies, and do stuff with hubby.

here's a question for the group. what can we do for fun together? we used to do all sorts of outdoor/physical activities, but i'm kinda out of shape, and we don't do much of that anymore. we watch movies, go out to eat, play warcraft (a computer game)...and sit around saying "i dunno, what do you wanna do"...

...

lazy is relative. I urge you to banish it from your vocabulary unless you are using it to measure it against your own true DESIRES, not your own EXPECTATIONS. if you *WANT* to sit and read all day, and that's what you do, you're not lazy, you're quite productive! (assuming that you haven't let your house *literally* fall on your head, but if you don't care that there's a load of laundry waiting, then it doesn't matter that it hasn't been done.) if you're cooking, reading, gardening, and a movie buff, I wouldn't necessarily call you lazy. (keeping a garden going is almost by definition *not* lazy. )

being out of shape is *not* a reason to not do outdoor/physical activities. do outdoor/physical activities, but do different ones, do the same ones at a slower pace, do small quantities... ADAPT! it can be very easy to let ourselves use excuses to not do thing (heavens know I fight that one all the time), but the only thing I know to do is to start recognizing that I'm doing and say "negh! that train of thought stops. thinking stops. I get up off my toosh right now. move!" and go do something.

stop asking him for what he wants to do - make something up and do it. don't agree to agree on what to do, agree to do what the other person comes up with. (I won't give ideas, because it doesn't solve the agree on what to do issue, something my husband and I have had a lot of issue with ourselves.) make things up, and watching movies, playing WoW, and going out to eat COUNT! anything where you spend time together, and try to connect, COUNT! don't dismiss them. don't have grand expectations. just enjoy the present and being with each other. expecting big things, constrained events, and any other "thing" just sets you up for disappointment when the picture in your head that you're expecting isn't met.

I'm not saying it's easy work. I'm still on the path. I'm not even sure it's a goal you ever reach, but just keep heading towards. Our world keeps telling us other things (they make good sound bites). But shifting my mental attitude towards that has made me *so* much happier and more accepting and helped me feel far more comfortable both in my role in the relationship and in our relationship.

[Sweetfudge]

You guys are the best!

There is lots you can do together. Go to the theatre, or just for a walk in the park. Or go to the zoo. Or a concert, go camping, or rent a boat/canoe on a river/lake and just enjoy a day on the water. Go fishing together (if you like that sort of thing), or bird watching, go to a museum or an art gallery........ The possibilities are endless.

Even join a sports club together. There are a few couples in my table tennis club. They don't necessarily always play together, but they are there together, having fun and going out with the group afterwards.

If you like stars, buy a telescope and look at the stars together. I am sure others will come up with very different ideas.

Thanks, lots of great ideas! Part of the problem with doing sports-like things together is he is so competitive, and I am not. So one of us often gets frustrated with the other. But I'll have to look into some of these

Maybe not a fun thing, but useful in other ways - clean the house together. You get it done much quicker, you get to be together, and afterwards you have a clean house. Set a regular time like Saturday morning or something, and you don't have to worry about it the rest of the week.

Pauliina

We do this quite often, although it's usually because one of us guilts the other into doing it. I think setting a regular time to do it would be more productive!

I have been married 18 years and it has been a rollar coaster. Sometimes, we are way up and sometimes so down, every little thing he does seems to bother you. I currently finished a down time and are on the way up again. You really need to give yourself a little more time to get on the upswing again. It may be tomorrow, it may be next month but, I guarantee it will happen.

I have found that doing things together like taking a walk watching t.v., going to restaurants, and just sitting on the front porch watching the world go by help a lot. It does not need to be planned or active-just spending time together is enough. Also having time apart to enjoy other activities gives us things to talk about when we are with each other. I am into the ecology protection, politics, and finance, which can lead to some lively discussions.

I agree with CarlaB-talk to your husband and Kenlove-you need to examine the 50's expectations you put on yourself to achieve. I just got a house cleaner last year and it has changed my life. You are so smart to have identified that already as a problem for you. Try it out for a month and see how you feel. In my area it is $95.00 every other week.

I think our sickness has a lot to do with depression and please feel free to vent whenever you need.

I'll have to look into a cleaning service in my area. Before I was even sick from celiac disease, I suffered a lot from depression (since I was a kid). I think I'm a lot healthier in the ways I deal with it, but every once in awhile it all gets to me. You're right that I need to change my expectations. A lot of my frustration is that HE has those expectations as well...

Laser tag! Paintball! Wall-climbing! The point is to get your blood moving so you're forced to get some exercise while you're having fun. That and there's the ever-eternal fun marital sport..... That'll get your blood moving. Trust me, he likes it when it's your idea.

Good ideas! Yes, he does quite appreciate those rare occasions when I initiate things

lazy is relative. I urge you to banish it from your vocabulary unless you are using it to measure it against your own true DESIRES, not your own EXPECTATIONS. if you *WANT* to sit and read all day, and that's what you do, you're not lazy, you're quite productive! (assuming that you haven't let your house *literally* fall on your head, but if you don't care that there's a load of laundry waiting, then it doesn't matter that it hasn't been done.) if you're cooking, reading, gardening, and a movie buff, I wouldn't necessarily call you lazy. (keeping a garden going is almost by definition *not* lazy. )

being out of shape is *not* a reason to not do outdoor/physical activities. do outdoor/physical activities, but do different ones, do the same ones at a slower pace, do small quantities... ADAPT! it can be very easy to let ourselves use excuses to not do thing (heavens know I fight that one all the time), but the only thing I know to do is to start recognizing that I'm doing and say "negh! that train of thought stops. thinking stops. I get up off my toosh right now. move!" and go do something.

stop asking him for what he wants to do - make something up and do it. don't agree to agree on what to do, agree to do what the other person comes up with. (I won't give ideas, because it doesn't solve the agree on what to do issue, something my husband and I have had a lot of issue with ourselves.) make things up, and watching movies, playing WoW, and going out to eat COUNT! anything where you spend time together, and try to connect, COUNT! don't dismiss them. don't have grand expectations. just enjoy the present and being with each other. expecting big things, constrained events, and any other "thing" just sets you up for disappointment when the picture in your head that you're expecting isn't met.

I'm not saying it's easy work. I'm still on the path. I'm not even sure it's a goal you ever reach, but just keep heading towards. Our world keeps telling us other things (they make good sound bites). But shifting my mental attitude towards that has made me *so* much happier and more accepting and helped me feel far more comfortable both in my role in the relationship and in our relationship.

I should stop saying the *L-word*. But like I mentioned above, his expectation of productive is very different from mine. As is his idea of clean. Recently I learned that me not keeping the cupboards organized bothers him a lot (didn't know that for 4 1/2 years...). He feels like we should be equal partners in things - since he spends more time at work than I do, I should spend more time cleaning the house than he does. While I understand that, and to a degree, agree with it, I still get annoyed when he comes home from work and I say I only spent an hour on the house...and he gets upset about it. I know I"m in the wrong here, but this equality obsession gets to me. aaah!

anyway, thanks again all! work in progress here for sure but i'm feeling pretty good about things.

[CarlaB]

Good ideas! Yes, he does quite appreciate those rare occasions when I initiate things

I know I"m in the wrong here, but this equality obsession gets to me. aaah!

If your husband is anything at all like mine (which he is because he's a man!), making it your idea most of the time will make him forget about everything else, which should include your hubby's equality obsession. It should also get things on the upswing digmom mentions. I can guarantee it will change your marriage .... he will be more concerned with you, when you are taking care of him in this way ..... he won't care so much if things are "equal", he will care more with whether he is taking as good of care of you as you are of him.

If you want him to have the perception of you as the perfect wife, this is the secret to how to do it. If you're turning him down and seldom initiating, it will make him more concerned with equality ... he will feel like he's carrying the load of the relationship.

And, yes, it usually is this simple with men.

[tarnalberry]

...

Thanks, lots of great ideas! Part of the problem with doing sports-like things together is he is so competitive, and I am not. So one of us often gets frustrated with the other. But I'll have to look into some of these

...

A lot of my frustration is that HE has those expectations as well...

...

He feels like we should be equal partners in things - since he spends more time at work than I do, I should spend more time cleaning the house than he does. While I understand that, and to a degree, agree with it, I still get annoyed when he comes home from work and I say I only spent an hour on the house...and he gets upset about it.

...

Well, I think his expectations may have to change too. He seems to have some particular ones as well. Have you guys agreed to keep the cupboards a particular way? Have you guys agreed that you'll do a particular amount of housework? Have you guys agreed that you'd do certain things, be a certain way?

My husband and I had a lot of unspoken assumptions - even about what the word "clean" meant - that we didn't realize until (after like 10 years of knowing each other) we talked about it. "What do you mean by 'clean'?" And talking to him so he understands (and hopefully accepts) that you are not competitive or a particular way, is important. Meeting him partway is important as well - you're in this together - but that's meeting together, not one meeting the other.

(for instance, I can't really stand how messy my husband keeps his desk in our computer room. heck, I bring him dinner when he's on a raid with his guild - at least I know you'll understand what I mean since you play WoW; it's something he loves, so I don't mind bringing him food on those few days - and I don't have room to put the plate down on his desk. but I'm not going to clean it for him (I'm not a maid; he's a big boy, and can maintain his own messes), and he doesn't care, so I can learn to let it go. )

[Lisa16]

Maybe going on a romantic little trip together for a change of scenery would be just the ticket. It doesn't have to be expensive-- you could even just pack a picnic and go to a nearby park. Or you could find a bargain flight to someplace like Maine or Fla and go sit/walk on the beach together.

Sometimes just getting out of the house and into a new setting does wonders.

Hang in there!

By the way.... I will always be grateful for that cheese cracker recipe you gave me when I first started posting here. See? You are a domestic goddess!

Lisa

[confused]

paula - what would you recommend we focus these letters on? our concerns, our hopes, what?

The letter should about pouring out your soul about what would make you happy again. And never say in it I would be happy if you would............. It need to be more like I realy wish we could (example.. Have an date night every second monday of the month).

Talk about what you hope to accomplish once you are doing more things together.

Marriage is not easy at all. I am going on 9 yesrs in a couple of weeks. We have never been just the two of us, since he already had his son, then i got pg on our wedding night. But we still try to find things for each other. Of course 9 times out of 10 the plans include the kids lol. But that is my fault cause i have been so sick and so afraid to go out and eat lol. But we do watch and play sports together and it works for us.

I also wanted to say, I dotn think a womens clean and a mans clean are ever the same thing lol

paula

[JNBunnie1]

I also wanted to say, I dotn think a womens clean and a mans clean are ever the same thing lol

paula

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! You know, the funny thing is, my boyfriend is the anal one. I'd leave crap everywhere if it were up to me.

[Sweetfudge]

If your husband is anything at all like mine (which he is because he's a man!), making it your idea most of the time will make him forget about everything else, which should include your hubby's equality obsession. It should also get things on the upswing digmom mentions. I can guarantee it will change your marriage .... he will be more concerned with you, when you are taking care of him in this way ..... he won't care so much if things are "equal", he will care more with whether he is taking as good of care of you as you are of him.

If you want him to have the perception of you as the perfect wife, this is the secret to how to do it. If you're turning him down and seldom initiating, it will make him more concerned with equality ... he will feel like he's carrying the load of the relationship.

And, yes, it usually is this simple with men.

You know, you're right, and I really struggle with taking the initiative here. It feels like so much work sometimes, and to me, it doesn't matter that much whether we do anything or not...But I do know that when I do take charge of things, he's so much happier with life

Well, I think his expectations may have to change too. He seems to have some particular ones as well. Have you guys agreed to keep the cupboards a particular way? Have you guys agreed that you'll do a particular amount of housework? Have you guys agreed that you'd do certain things, be a certain way?

My husband and I had a lot of unspoken assumptions - even about what the word "clean" meant - that we didn't realize until (after like 10 years of knowing each other) we talked about it. "What do you mean by 'clean'?" And talking to him so he understands (and hopefully accepts) that you are not competitive or a particular way, is important. Meeting him partway is important as well - you're in this together - but that's meeting together, not one meeting the other.

(for instance, I can't really stand how messy my husband keeps his desk in our computer room. heck, I bring him dinner when he's on a raid with his guild - at least I know you'll understand what I mean since you play WoW; it's something he loves, so I don't mind bringing him food on those few days - and I don't have room to put the plate down on his desk. but I'm not going to clean it for him (I'm not a maid; he's a big boy, and can maintain his own messes), and he doesn't care, so I can learn to let it go. )

lol my husband is the opposite about our office. He's so OCD about taking dishes down as soon as he gets a minute. Maybe it's because I'm not . We probably ought to sit down and decide how we want certain things done.

By the way.... I will always be grateful for that cheese cracker recipe you gave me when I first started posting here. See? You are a domestic goddess!

Lisa

Glad you liked them! Part of my problem with cooking is I do a lot of cooking for me, and he's so picky that he doesn't enjoy a lot of the things I make. So to him, it's just another mess.

The letter should about pouring out your soul about what would make you happy again. And never say in it I would be happy if you would............. It need to be more like I realy wish we could (example.. Have an date night every second monday of the month).

Talk about what you hope to accomplish once you are doing more things together.

Marriage is not easy at all. I am going on 9 yesrs in a couple of weeks. We have never been just the two of us, since he already had his son, then i got pg on our wedding night. But we still try to find things for each other. Of course 9 times out of 10 the plans include the kids lol. But that is my fault cause i have been so sick and so afraid to go out and eat lol. But we do watch and play sports together and it works for us.

I also wanted to say, I dotn think a womens clean and a mans clean are ever the same thing lol

paula

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I definitely agree that we differ in how we see clean. When I want something clean, I'm so anal about it! A lot of times, he just misses little things, and I don't want to stir up anything, so I just fix it myself later.

[Sweetfudge]

Another little rant here, sorry you guys are probably tired of hearing my life story. I just really don't feel like I have anyone to talk to.

So, I don't think I mentioned this before, but I really dislike my husband's job. His boss is such a toxic person, and it frustrates me that they're friends ( he hooked my husband up with the job). My husband has told me that he's talked with his boss about some of his frustrations in our marriage, and this guy tells him that he should bail before things get worse, before we have kids (like he is, stuck in a marriage with two sick babies).

He also said that my husband should enjoy the attention he's getting from the office receptionist. When she first started there, she was very flirty with him, he finally (don't know how much later...) told her he was married, and she spent a couple weeks grilling him for relationship advice (dating this older guy, wants to marry her, she doesn't think she could NOT cheat on him...).

And now we're back to the incessant flirting. He's only mentioned this a couple of times, but the last time it was when we were having an arguement, and he said how hard it is that I don't give him that kind of attention anymore, and he's getting it all day every day at work. He said he's 100% loyal to me (and I do believe him there), that this girl is probably so full of STD's, and "she's not even that good looking". I guess she's invited him over to her place a couple times, and supposedly locked her keys in her car, and begged my husband for a ride home.

So, this has been a sore spot for me. I am already struggling with my self esteem as a person, and as a wife, and this does NOT help at all. I really do try and just ignore it though, not let it get to me, not think about the fact that he's there all day, and so is she...but still I do think about it.

The other night, I was thinking about initiating something intimate, and we were just talking about our days. I was talking about my work, when he cuts in saying how what's-her-name got totally sunburned this weekend out on the lake with her friends, how she's got these huge red blisters all over, and looks like a lobster. I really wanted to scream at him. I was like, no play for you tonight...and I backed off.

Then today, I had to go pick him up at work to take him over to the school for a meeting. I didn't know I was picking him up until after I had just finished a 2 hour workout at the gym. So I got to go over to the office looking like that. I briefly met her, and felt so uncomfortable at not being put together. And when I took him back after the meeting, he said out of the blue, "see, she's not even that hot". I kinda gave him a look, and tried to brush it off.

Anyway, I just had to get that all out, because I'm so frustrated and hurt by this situation, and don't really feel like there's anything I can do about it. Any ideas?

[aikiducky]

Is it possible that your husband is trying, in his somewhat clumsy guy way, to make you more comfortable about this receptionist? Those weren't actually flattering remarks about her. If that's the case it's a good idea to reward him even so.

I think that's been one of the big things in our marriage that we've learned to reward each other for even slightly misplaced efforts. It's a great feeling to be appreciated for trying.

Something else I thinking - even a year ago, two and a half years into gluten free, I still felt like I could cope with my daily life and work etc. But I didn't really have a lot of extra energy and I really preferred a rather quiet life. Now, a year later, I notice I'm getting more enterprising. So it might be that you just need to give yourself permission to lead a quiet restful life until you start to feel like doing more and starting new things. Or...could it be that you're a bit depressed because you're still deficient in some vitamins and stuff?

Because I'm thinking that a lot of what you write about is stuff that I think you would just take in stride if you were feeling physically stronger maybe?

Pauliina

[Sweetfudge]

Is it possible that your husband is trying, in his somewhat clumsy guy way, to make you more comfortable about this receptionist? Those weren't actually flattering remarks about her. If that's the case it's a good idea to reward him even so.

quite possibly I guess i'm just overly sensitive to the subject, especially because I don't feel entirely worthy of him, knowing I haven't been pulling my weight and making him feel like I'm part of the team.

I think that's been one of the big things in our marriage that we've learned to reward each other for even slightly misplaced efforts. It's a great feeling to be appreciated for trying.

I think the both of us could be better at that. Often I feel like I get a half-hearted reaction to something I feel like I did right, but he doesn't see in the same light. Might be one of the things we could discuss in our letters to each other.

Something else I thinking - even a year ago, two and a half years into gluten free, I still felt like I could cope with my daily life and work etc. But I didn't really have a lot of extra energy and I really preferred a rather quiet life. Now, a year later, I notice I'm getting more enterprising. So it might be that you just need to give yourself permission to lead a quiet restful life until you start to feel like doing more and starting new things. Or...could it be that you're a bit depressed because you're still deficient in some vitamins and stuff?

Because I'm thinking that a lot of what you write about is stuff that I think you would just take in stride if you were feeling physically stronger maybe?

Pauliina

I think you're probably right in this. I also think, if I was just dealing with one issue, or tackling one hurdle, it would be much easier. As it is, with me trying to "fix" everything all at once, I'm probably a little short-fused, and on the verge of burning out. I really should try pacing myself, working on each goal individually.

Thanks for your input