Gluten Enzymes

[jasonD2]

Hi-

Rachel24 is using AFP Peptizyde and said it works quite well for her. Has anyone else tried this or any other gluten enzyme with positive results? im very sensitive to certain supplements and am currently taking Biogest with meals, which i seem to tolerate well if i use half a capsule, but im not sure if its acting on whatever trace amounts of gluten i might be ingesting.

Thanks,

Jason

[Rachel--24]

im very sensitive to certain supplements and am currently taking Biogest with meals, which i seem to tolerate well if i use half a capsule, but im not sure if its acting on whatever trace amounts of gluten i might be ingesting.

Peptizyde isnt recommended for anyone with Celiac...not sure if you have celiac disease or not but just wanted to put that out there. Its is a good choice for people who are very sensitive. It only contains the enzymes necessary for protein digestion...no other enzymes are included. You would have to use additional enzymes for carbs, fats, etc (if you need them)....but since peptizyde doesnt conatin a bunch of different enzymes theres less chance for reaction for those who are very sensitive. I cant handle any formulas that contain alot of different enzymes.

I dont know about Biogest...does it contain DPPIV?? You would want to be taking an enzyme that contains DPPIV if you are trying to help with traces of gluten and casein.

Heres some info about different enzymes.

GlutenEase (Enzymedica) - very effective product targeting both protein and carbohydrate portions of gluten and casein. Effective enough to replace Gluten-free Casein-free diet for many people. Not intended for celiacs to leave gluten-free diet, but acts as 'safety net' for accidental exposures. Lessens symptoms for many with celiac. Does not cause adverse reactions some other gluten-targeting enzyme products do in celiac.

Peptizyde (Houston Nutraceuticals) - found to be effective enough for replacing Gluten-free Casein-free diet for many people. Not advised for celiacs even as 'safety net' because some celiacs report worsening of symptoms with accidental exposure.

AFP Peptizyde (Houston Nutraceuticals)

[jasonD2]

wow so many to choose from- I dont believe I have celiacs and at this point want to take something prior to eating out to act as a safety net in case of accidental ingestion of gluten.

Ive tried various enzyme supplements in the past and I didnt feel so well after, but I believe they all had fruit-based enzymes so i may be sensitive like yourself.

Would AFP Peptizyde be safe to take with Biogest (which is pepsin, HCL and bile)? are there any side effects..i.e. discomfort, naseua, etc?

thanks

[Rachel--24]

Would AFP Peptizyde be safe to take with Biogest (which is pepsin, HCL and bile)? are there any side effects..i.e. discomfort, naseua, etc?

Yeah...you can take Peptizyde in combination with other enzymes...so you can still take the Biogest along with it.

There arent any side effects other then a "peptide withdrawl" which some autistic kids experience. Dont know if adults ever experience that with Peptizyde. Its basically withdrawl symptoms as the peptides are decreased in the body.

There are no known side effects, although some children may experience what some refer to as a "peptide withdrawal". For up to a few weeks on Peptizyde or AFP Peptizyde, children going through this "withdrawal" syndrome may be more hyperactive and sensitive to their surroundings. You can reduce the dose and build up more gradually if experiencing this.

[Sailing Girl]

Rachel, thanks for the good information on enzymes!

I'm hoping you can help with this question. My DD and I are going on a cruise in a couple of weeks. It's a Disney cruise, so we know they're extremely good about food issues and CC. But I believe it's inevitable that we'll be CC'd at least once on our 10-day trip -- and I just don't want to be sick at all during this trip of a lifetime!

Would the GlutenEase enzymes help with CC symptoms? If so, how much should we take, and should we take it at every meal?

FYI, neither of us is officially diagnosed, but I've had celiac symptoms all my life, and my daughter had *severe* symptoms until I took her gluten-free at age three. I'm DQ7,5 and she's double DQ7 -- both combinations that researchers are beginning to believe are more like celiac and less like non-celiac gluten-intolerance.

Thanks for your help!

[Rachel--24]

I'm hoping you can help with this question. My DD and I are going on a cruise in a couple of weeks. It's a Disney cruise, so we know they're extremely good about food issues and CC. But I believe it's inevitable that we'll be CC'd at least once on our 10-day trip -- and I just don't want to be sick at all during this trip of a lifetime!

Would the GlutenEase enzymes help with CC symptoms? If so, how much should we take, and should we take it at every meal?

I think if I had Celiac I would probably take GlutenEase whenever risk for CC is high. It just makes sense to me. Why be miserable if you may be able to prevent it by taking the enzyme. The way I see it is that it cant hurt to try to lessen the possibility of reaction caused by CC.

The only enzymes I have any experience with (of those mentioned above) are Digest Gold and AFP Peptizyde. I couldnt tolerate Digest Gold but for both of these enzymes I just took one capsule before my meal. I know for Peptizyde the recommended dosage is 1-2 capsules per meal and it shouldnt ever be necessary to take more than 2.

Since you're just trying to cover for CC 1 capsule should be plenty. I looked up the GlutenEase and heres what it says:

Recommended Usage:

Take 1 capsule with any meal containing gluten or casein. More may be taken if needed.

Heres the link to more info.

Open Original Shared Link

Have fun on your cruise!!

[Lizz7711]

Is the AFP peptizyde a powder in a capsule? I'm wondering becasue i'd like to have something my 9 year old can take (she's gluten sensitive, not celiac), i'm not sure about salicylates with her for sure so this one might be the best choice, but she can't swallow capsules yet. Also, how much would a child take if you happen to know?

thanks

Liz

[Rachel--24]

Is the AFP peptizyde a powder in a capsule? I'm wondering becasue i'd like to have something my 9 year old can take (she's gluten sensitive, not celiac), i'm not sure about salicylates with her for sure so this one might be the best choice, but she can't swallow capsules yet. Also, how much would a child take if you happen to know?

thanks

Liz

The enzymes come in capsule, scoopable powder or chewables. I think the chewable had added ingredients so it might be best to use the powder. You can also just break open the capsules and sprinkle the powder....which is what I do.

Heres some info on the dosage.

Typically, 1 capsule/scoop of each of Peptizyde and Zyme Prime per major meal or major snack. For the chewable flavored forms of the enzymes, 3 chewable tablets is the equivalent to one capsule, and 2 chewable tablets is the equivalent to 1/2 a capsule.

The manufacturer recommends starting with one capsule (of each product if giving Peptizyde and Zyme Prime) per significant meal, meaning not giving the products with light snacks (unless the snack has casein or gluten), and giving more if no improvement is noticed.

Dosing should be by size of meal, not body weight, since the enzymes are contained within the intestinal tract, and do not appreciably distribute to other areas of the body. It would be unusual for a child to need more than, say 2 Peptizyde and 2 Zyme Prime capsules per meal. Since children with autism are often more sensitive to digestive changes, be certain that the enzymes are not causing any stomach pain or discomfort.

For those children who tend to "graze", interval dosing may be more appropriate, for example, giving enzymes every 3 hours or so during the day. If one does this type of dosing, it may be better to use one capsule per dosing. Feel free to experiment (within reason) with dosing to find the level that best suits your child's individual needs.

When is the best time for giving the enzymes?

It is best to give your child the enzymes with the first few bites of the meal or just prior to mealtime (10 -15 minutes). But even if your child does not take the enzyme at the beginning of the meal, it is still important point to take the enzyme during or after eating. Because food stays in the stomach for up to 90 minutes, introducing enzymes anytime during the meal will still provide great benefits.

[Lizz7711]

Thanks, this is very helpful...i'll have to get some of this for my daughter. For myself, I do have some Digest Gold that I bought before I knew i had celiac disease so maybe I should actually start taking it. What is the reason that some enzymes are only for those without celiac? I never had the biopsy, and I don't have malabsorption, (but I do have hypothyroid), but really don't have major digestive issues at this point (now 42) although as a kid I do remember having terrible constipation. I just don't seem to fit the classic celiac case. Maybe it's just my brain fog, lol, but I seem to have a hard time getting my brain around this disease!

The enzymes come in capsule, scoopable powder or chewables. I think the chewable had added ingredients so it might be best to use the powder. You can also just break open the capsules and sprinkle the powder....which is what I do.

Heres some info on the dosage.

[Lizz7711]

Hi Rachel, me again! Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, but you seem to have such a good handle on all of this!

My dad who is 76, has been suffering incredibly for a year now with postherpetic neuralgia in his arm...this is the nerve pain after having shingles. It hurts just to wear a shirt or to have the wind blow against his arm. I think this is a problem in the brain, where the brain is misinterpreting signals. It has steadily been getting slightly better, but not much. There is no medical treatment that really works to HEAL this problem. He's taking all kinds of supplements i've recommended, and he's also been on probiotics. He just did enterolab testing and was positive for gluten and casein, DQ1,3. I"m really hoping that the Gluten-free Casein-free and soy free diet may help his arm. But i'm also thinking now after we've been discussing the leaky gut that maybe that's the main issue. What supplements do you recommend for dealing with the leaky gut? And as far as enzymes go, would the glutenease be the best one for my dad, or is digest gold better since it has the DDPV or whatever it is?

I also want him to get tested for heavy metals, but he doesn't have regular doctor at all, let alone a holistic one. I found a holistic one for him down there in florida, but they don't accept medicare insurance. The only doc he sees is his cardiologist (he's on a lot of meds for heart arrythmia, atrial fibrillation--maybe this is what caused the leaky gut??).

thanks for any advice you might have!

[home-based-mom]

Is the AFP peptizyde a powder in a capsule? I'm wondering becasue i'd like to have something my 9 year old can take (she's gluten sensitive, not celiac), i'm not sure about salicylates with her for sure so this one might be the best choice, but she can't swallow capsules yet. Also, how much would a child take if you happen to know?

thanks

Liz

Capsules are actually easier to swallow than pills. Most people who have problems with them are trying to toss them to the back of the mouth as you would do with a pill. But capsules float and when you try to toss them towards the back of the mouth, they float to the front because that is up. Have your daughter just put her head down as if she were bowing in prayer and then just swallow. The capsule will have floated to the perfect position and she might not even feel it going down!

[Lizz7711]

thanks for the tip, i'll have her try that!

Capsules are actually easier to swallow than pills. Most people who have problems with them are trying to toss them to the back of the mouth as you would do with a pill. But capsules float and when you try to toss them towards the back of the mouth, they float to the front because that is up. Have your daughter just put her head down as if she were bowing in prayer and then just swallow. The capsule will have floated to the perfect position and she might not even feel it going down!

[Rachel--24]

What is the reason that some enzymes are only for those without celiac?

Peptizyde is the one not recommended for those with Celiac....I'm not sure about any of the other enzymes.

The reason is that some parents noticed that their child got worse when combining gluten and Peptizyde. When those kids were tested they actually had Celiac. Based on that...it appeared that Peptizyde might worsen a Celiac's reaction to gluten. If someone actually gets a worse reaction to gluten while taking Peptizyde then it may be that they have Celiac. In that case they need to be on the diet and should not be taking Peptizyde.

It was found, in general, people with celiac reacted worse when taking gluten + Peptizyde than when consuming small amounts of gluten with no enzymes.

There is a certain structure in the gliadin that the small intestine sees as toxic in celiac individuals. The protease enzymes are not breaking this down in a way so that it does not cause a reaction in celiacs. So, in fact, taking just a protease such as Peptizyde may be just making more of these little peptides (or whatever) available to the small intestine, and perhaps increasing the number of chances to provoke a reaction. There was some research on the www.celiac.com site which proposed this same thing with the use of barley enzymes although it also said this was just a working theory and there was no evidence to back it up.

There's no "scientific" evidence behind this theory but still....there have been cases where the reaction was worse in kids who turned out to have Celiac Disease.

[Rachel--24]

I"m really hoping that the Gluten-free Casein-free and soy free diet may help his arm. But i'm also thinking now after we've been discussing the leaky gut that maybe that's the main issue. What supplements do you recommend for dealing with the leaky gut? And as far as enzymes go, would the glutenease be the best one for my dad, or is digest gold better since it has the DDPV or whatever it is?

It might be a "sensory" issue with your dad's arm...not really sure though. There is alot of info. about sensory problems...but mostly with regards to autism. I know that when I was at my worst (a few years ago) certain things bothered me...like a fuzzy sweater or other "scratchy" type materials. It was uncomfortable and could even be painful. A tag on a shirt or a collar rubbing on my neck could be very bothersome and totally distracting. I also didnt like to be touched (especially on my face) and my skin was more sensitive to cold.

This isnt really an issue anymore....I dont have that same "fear" of being touched and my skin isnt so easily irritated. It was only a problem while I was at my worst. I think sensory issues like that have something to do with the nervous system and an "overload" on the body. It can be any type of "hypersensitivity" to touch, smell, light, sound, movement, etc. I also became hypersensitive to smells and light...but noise doesnt bother me at all.

With sensory integration dysfunction, one

[Lizz7711]

I will do some more research on the leaky gut issue, I actually have all the resources here, just need to compile the info into something my dad can follow. I'd really like him to get heavy metals tested, but he's in Florida and wont' go to the alternative doc in town becaue the guy doesn't take Medicare..and i've looked for another one and there really isn't anyone. But anyway, at least he can start on enzymes and the Gluten-free Casein-free diet for now and see if it helps his arm at all. It's a very intense deep nerve pain. HIs cortisol levels are off the charts (saliva testing) 24 hrs due to the constant stress of the pain. He does have good days and bad days, mostly it's better in the mornings and progressively gets worse. He also takes ambien every day to sleep, ever since my mom died almost 3 years ago. And he's on a bunch of heart meds. I pray one day there will be so many good holistic doctors out there people will not have to suffer the way they are now!!

About glutamine. I'm very wary and scared of this supplement, becuase basically to isolate this as an amino acid by itself, it becomes free glutamic acid which is like MSG. Do you know of people with problems with MSG who have taken l-glutamine and not had any problems? I keep hearing how good it is for intestinal healing, but am thinking I should steer clear of it due to the MSG issue.

take care and thanks for the input

Liz

I think sensory issues like that have something to do with the nervous system and an "overload" on the body. It can be any type of "hypersensitivity" to touch, smell, light, sound, movement, etc. I also became hypersensitive to smells and light...but noise doesnt bother me at all.

I dont know if thats the same type of thing with your dad or if its something else. I think it was mostly dietary changes that helped me with that. Everything improved when I restricted certain foods. For me it was the Feingold diet which helped the most.

Is he taking enzymes? If some foods are causing problems enzymes could help break them down.

I'm pretty sure GlutenEase also has DPPIV..... probably either one is fine. Even if he's on the diet it will help with any cross contamination as well as helping to digest other foods.

If you Google "leaky gut treatment" I'm sure you'll find alot of supplements which are recommended. I know that L-Glutamine is one of the ones that is very good for healing the gut.

[Rachel--24]

About glutamine. I'm very wary and scared of this supplement, becuase basically to isolate this as an amino acid by itself, it becomes free glutamic acid which is like MSG. Do you know of people with problems with MSG who have taken l-glutamine and not had any problems? I keep hearing how good it is for intestinal healing, but am thinking I should steer clear of it due to the MSG issue.

Hmmm...this is interesting. Glutamine and glutamate are two different amino acids (from what I understand). I'm not sure if l-glutamine is actually glutamic acid.....I tried to look it up right now but came up with "mixed" results. I'm not sure which is true....is it or isnt it??

I'm sensitive to the food chemicals...salicylates, amines, glutamates, sulfites, etc. I do avoid high glutamate foods and definately MSG....stuff like whey protein as well. Thats why for me most of the stuff thats meant to "help"....just really doesnt have that effect for me.

One of my Dr.'s says that for me "less is more".

I never thought of l-glutamine as being the same thing. I only took it for a few days back when I was trying to heal my gut on my own. I did horribly on it so I stopped pretty quickly. I never understood why I didnt tolerate it but I actually didnt tolerate *anything* I was trying at that time. I also didnt have any comprehension of "less is more"...and I know I was taking way too much of the stuff because thats what I would tend to do with everything. I just wanted to hurry up and heal!

Anyways, I did react to it but in my case I dont think its saying too much. Other people seem to do really well on it.

On a side note I think that my tolerance for the other food chemicals increases when I avoid salicylates. My tolerance goes way down when I start getting too much salicylate in my system.

[Lizz7711]

Basically, glutamine is the same as glutamic acid...just different forms of the same amino acid. glutamine, or glutamic acid is naturally present in many foods, mostly meat, dairy...and when it is bound to proteins, it is largely harmless, although I think you can still get too much..for instance, parmesan cheese is way high in glutamic acid and my daughter reacts to it like MSG. But when it is separated from proteins, as in the case of MSG, isolated soy protein etc, it becomes an excitotoxin in our brains. To make a supplement called glutamine, they MUST be separating it from it's natural protein buddies found in food, so this is why i'm very worried about taking it. There's a great book written by Russell Blaylock called "Excitotoxins: the taste that kills"--he's a neurosurgeon and is very worried about these compounds, especially glutamate and aspartate.

Anyway, here is some info from wikipedia, this talks about the role of glutamate as a neurotransmitter and how, while it can be beneficial, TOO MUCH can cause it to cross the blood/brain barrier.

Open Original Shared Link

Glutamic acid (abbreviated as Glu or E; the abbreviation Glx or Z represents either glutamic acid or glutamine). The carboxylate anion of glutamic acid is known as glutamate, and this is one of the 20 proteinogenic amino acids. It is not among the human essential amino acids.

Glutamate transporters[3] are found in neuronal and glial membranes. They rapidly remove glutamate from the extracellular space. In brain injury or disease, they can work in reverse and excess glutamate can accumulate outside cells. This process causes calcium ions to enter cells via NMDA receptor channels, leading to neuronal damage and eventual cell death, and is called excitotoxicity. The mechanisms of cell death include

Damage to mitochondria from excessively high intracellular Ca2+;[4]

Glu/Ca2+-mediated promotion of transcription factors for pro-apoptotic genes, or downregulation of transcription factors for anti-apoptotic genes.

Excitotoxicity due to glutamate occurs as part of the ischemic cascade and is associated with stroke and diseases like amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, lathyrism, autism, some forms of mental retardation and Alzheimer's disease.

Glutamic acid has been implicated in epileptic seizures. Microinjection of glutamic acid into neurons produces spontaneous depolarisations around one second apart, and this firing pattern is similar to what is known as paroxysmal depolarizing shift in epileptic attacks. This change in the resting membrane potential at seizure foci could cause spontaneous opening of voltage-activated calcium channels, leading to glutamic acid release and further depolarization.

[Lizz7711]

Here's another site about glutamine: Open Original Shared Link

It sounds like it may possibly be safe to take it if you're sure you don't already have brain damage. Thjat's the tricky part...how do we know what the accumulation of glutamine is in our system? My dad's mom had alzheimer's and they say for people with alzheimer's to NOT take it, so I think i'll not let my dad try it. But I myself might at least try it, guess that's the only way to know what it's effect is eh?

Maybe i should start a thread asking about it, think i will

[jami9050]

Hello there. I'm very new to the forum but I wanted to know/ask why is it that people take enzymes for a gluten free diet? I have not been formally tested as I went gluten free after reading a lot about it and it's reactions on people... I fit the bill to the T and also at that point in my life I was dealing with some stomach pain that I couldn't understand (ended up being my gall bladder in the end but not found til 2years later).

When I started eating gluten free I felt soooo much better... after the gallbladder came out I got even more healthy as well. I even lost 20kilo (44pounds roughly). I do get what I refer to as cross contaminated once and a RARE while and end up having signs of it such as bathroom problem, feeling like I have the stomach flu even for a couple of days with the next day after exposer being the worst of them all. Never thrown up for it though, just really tired, stomach problems, bathroom issues and what not.... generally feeling of being unwell. By this, I mean that I got into something such as someone touched/worked with something gluten based and then touched or processed my dish/requested item. I've 'trained' my husband to be careful so it doesn't happen at home. I also have a wonderful bio store that sells a lot of wonderful gluten free based products. I also read labels like you wouldn't believe! I even added 1 hr to grocery shopping as I even re-check labels every couple of weeks to ensure they didn't change factories or recipes on me.

I knew about research being done in Holland about enzymes for gluten intolerance but it's been years since I checked up on anything with it and that is what brought my husband to look into this.

I hope I'm not posting in the wrong place as my husband found this post for me actually and linked me to it today after I asked him about find more about that Holland project we heard about. I am kind of hoping that some where some how that there is something that would help one if once and a while they wanted to just enjoy something gluten based again without the fear of side effects of either a drug (such as an enzyme lets say) or the gluten based project itself.

Me, I just avoid going out for meals except to about 2 places I know have stuff I can eat because they are very kind to let me read labels and such of items before I order something and they have open kitchens. I went back to basics of cooking so I know any thing I eat is gluten free because I bought the items, I combines the items, I cooked the items. It took me a LONG time to learn my way but again I guess that is why I wonder why does one take an enzyme replacement if one can simply avoid it all together... the enzyme part and the gluten part?

I don't think I'm sensitive to any thing else except perhaps carbs. I know if I eat say a corn based pasta vs a rice based pasta, I get a faster heart rate like I've eaten too much sugar for example. Or if I indeed eat too much sugar! I am able to control this part as well as long as I watch how much carbs I take in at once and what kind I take in. Rice & potatoes seem to be my key sources when it comes to carbs and I can have almost as much as I want of them without worry of reacting to them. I don't even know if this is something that is related or not to the gluten intolerance.

Also if I may ask while I am typing this, how would someone who has gone gluten free on their own go about getting formally tested? Is it too late for that? I know out here in Belgium where I live, our health insurance might help with a few $$$ toward gluten free products/foods every month but I think they need a formal test and I'm afraid I might have burned my bridges

Thanks for the time to read/post this... I'll be looking around this forum quite a bit more too!

Jami9050

[jeanniebell]

I am so glad i read this. I am researching the Feingold diet right now. I know I have major sensitivities already to sulfites, MSG and many fragrances. I follow a strict gluten-free diet. I think it could really help me. Thank you for posting