Ritz Crackers & Wheat Thins

[drjsparker]

First let me aplolgize for being relative moron when it comes to this subject. Secondly, I believe this is a question I know the answer to but am just looking for affirmation.

We initially started about a year or so ago with a concern that he had Celiacs or a Gluten allergy...he threw up a couple of times after having wheat products (a goldfish and a cheerio).

Soon thereafter, we had blood tests done that came back positive to Peanut (severe), Dairy, Wheat & Eggs.

We recently had him skin tested for Wheat. It came back negative.

In the last 2 days I've fed him 10 Whole Wheat Ritz Crackers and 6 Wheat Thins. He has had no external reaction and his poopies have been normal.

Is it now definitaly safe to say that he does not have Celiacs or a Gluten Allergy?

Thanks,

John

[Lisa]

How long has he been off of wheat or the other allergens that you mentioned. I could be that he has healed and is not OUTWARDLY showing symptoms. Should he have Celiac, he is having internal damage. Celiac is an autoimmune disease. It's not the amount of gluten that he may consume, but rather, the autoimune reaction to the smallest amount of gluten that will do the damage, which may be evident down the road with diareaha.

If he does have Celiac, it might take repeted attempts for a reaction such as diarrhea.

I would encourage you to have him tested specifically for Celiac Disease. (Although the blood test is not as reliable for children under the age of five).

Here is what you doctor should order: (all of these)

Anti-gliadin antibodies (AGA) both IgA and IgG

Anti-endomysial antibodies (EMA) - IgA

Anti-tissue transglutaminase antibodies (tTG) - IgA

Total IgA level.

Secondly, there are no stupid questions here and welcome!

[drjsparker]

How long has he been off of wheat or the other allergens that you mentioned. I could be that he has healed and is not OUTWARDLY showing symptoms. Should he have Celiac, he is having internal damage. Celiac is an autoimmune disease. It's not the amount of gluten that he may consume, but rather, the autoimune reaction to the smallest

amount of gluten that will do the damage, which may be evident down the road with diareaha.

If he does have Celiac, it might take repeted attempts for a reaction such as diarrhea.

I would encourage you to have him tested specifically for Celiac Disease. (Although the blood test is not as reliable for children under the age of five).

Here is what you doctor should order: (all of these)

Anti-gliadin antibodies (AGA) both IgA and IgG

Anti-endomysial antibodies (EMA) - IgA

Anti-tissue transglutaminase antibodies (tTG) - IgA

Total IgA level.

Secondly, there are no stupid questions here and welcome!

Thanks for the info...

Off of wheat for about a year, then after the wheat test we gave him some of the 'Earth's Best' baby food that did contain wheat (I forgot to mention that)...this has been about a month or 2 ago. He didn't like it so we didn't continue to feed it to him. He did however have some, and had no outward reaction to it....never any diarrhea

Something else I didn't mention is that he did have the following test almost a year ago and both came back negative:

-Endomysial Antibody IgA

-t-Transglutaminase (tTG) IgG

The IgE Food Antibody Assay test that we had done almost a year ago showed the:

-Peanuts (severe)

-Milk (High)

-Wheat (Moderate/High)

-Egg and Mustard (Moderate)

-a few others were mild

As I said the allergist did a skin test for Wheat a couple of months ago...came back negative. I did a skin test (topical) of milk and a stirred up egg....egg was essentially negative...milk was positive. We gave him some eggs, he only ate a little, but there was not rxn.

I'm trying to come to a conclustion on this without having to have him stuck again (or proded) if at all possible.

One other question, if I continue giving him some wheat/gluten each day, how long would you expect it to take for him to start having some diarrhea if in fact he does have Celiacs?

Thanks again for you insight!

[Jestgar]

I went to an interesting conference about food allergies. The first point was that food allergy reactions tend to be respiratory, that is, people react by not being able to breathe. The second point was that the type of reaction that you have this time does not indicate the type of reaction you'll have next time. This means, if your son really has an IgE response to wheat, and you're giving him wheat, you could have no reaction one day, and put him in the emergency room the next day.

Also, an antibody test won't be positive if he hasn't been eating the food. If he's been wheat free, the test wouldn't necessarily show a positive response.

You might want to spend some time figuring out exactly what the issue is. Celiac will give him diarrhea, a wheat allergy could kill him.

[gfpaperdoll]

Welcome to the group. Actually you could feed him gluten for however long & he could have or develope complete villi atrophy & never get diarrhea. Some people have no GI symptoms & some people have constipation.

The diarrhea, wasting away, vomitting, nausea, are the classic symptoms that doctors look for (bless their hearts). The problem is that most people do not exhibit the classic symptoms. Some people in fact have the opposite symptoms, they gain weight, have constipation, have a "beer gut" etc.

If you are wanting a non invasive test I suggest that you look into Enterolab.com & get their testing & the gene test also. I would guess that with the food allergies that your child has at least one DQ1 gene. My family almost all have two DQ1 genes. We have a lot of food allergies.

Also, note that you can be allergic to wheat & still have celiac or gluten intolerance. I am allergic to barley & oats in addition to being gluten intolerant (celiac really, no difference in my opinion, but I let it go, does not matter what you call it, the treatment is the same & the results are the same if you continue to eat gluten - not good...) Of course I have other food allergies also, but although I had been wheat light for over 10 years thinking that I had an allergy, once I went totally gluten free it made a huge difference in my health for the better. A lot of my food allergies went away at that time! Wow, I would give up wheat any day to be able to eat corn, tomatoes, pork, peaches, and oranges.

Of course I never had the withdrawal that people talk about & I did not have to adjust my lifestyle all that much, I was already used to taking my own food etc.

You are right to check into this for your child. Most people in my family are born with "issues". I was born with it, my son was born sick, & his son was sick at birth & had failure to thrive in the womb which continued.

Some people talk about a trigger, but in my family just being born was the trigger as far as I am concerned.

I have a 10 YO granddaughter that is double DQ1 & has recently put on weight & lost all the enamel on all her teeth. Dental health is a big issue for children. It is not that they are not brushing their teeth it is that they are not absorbing the proper nutrients. Then later comes osteporosis, arthritis, other auto-immune illnesses. She spent her younger life, taking breathing treatments for an asthma like condition (common for wheat) has had many colds, ear infections, hives, rashes, itchy rashes (I suspect DH), walking pneumonia - twice a year or so ago, consitpation her whole life, well you can see - no doctor has diagnosed her & never will although it is fairly plain what her problem is. No wonder the parents refuse for her to be gluten-free, they are waiting on some nitwit doctor to care enough to find out. sorry, I guess I have a small rant here... But it does point out that some people are totally atypical when it comes to symptoms or lack of.

[Amyleigh0007]

Would a skin test show a wheat allergy? I always thought that bloodtests were used to determine food allergies and skin tests were used to determine environmental allergies. I ask because I am having food allergy tesing done on the 11th and I figured the doctor would just draw blood.

Anyway, my son has both Celiac and a wheat allergy (and many other food allergies). After his first endoscopy, his GI said he had a rash and hives on his esophagus most likely from the food allergies. We had no idea he even had food allergies. He never had outward reactions. So, you never know. Your son's reactions could be internal.

[slmprofesseur]

Would a skin test show a wheat allergy? I always thought that bloodtests were used to determine food allergies and skin tests were used to determine environmental allergies. I ask because I am having food allergy tesing done on the 11th and I figured the doctor would just draw blood.

Anyway, my son has both Celiac and a wheat allergy (and many other food allergies). After his first endoscopy, his GI said he had a rash and hives on his esophagus most likely from the food allergies. We had no idea he even had food allergies. He never had outward reactions. So, you never know. Your son's reactions could be internal.

My son did react to wheat on a skin test and a blood test. Our allergist did the skin test first and blood test later. As for my son, the reactions used to take a while to develop- rashes- similar to ringworm or eczema, and later wheezing.

[drjsparker]

Would a skin test show a wheat allergy?

Yes, they do do skin tests for food. The Dr. was going to check Milk and Eggs as well but decided against it; which is why I did it myself (topically) when I got home...Milk reacted, eggs did not.

[drjsparker]

I went to an interesting conference about food allergies. The first point was that food allergy reactions tend to be respiratory, that is, people react by not being able to breathe. The second point was that the type of reaction that you have this time does not indicate the type of reaction you'll have next time. This means, if your son really has an IgE response to wheat, and you're giving him wheat, you could have no reaction one day, and put him in the emergency room the next day.

Also, an antibody test won't be positive if he hasn't been eating the food. If he's been wheat free, the test wouldn't necessarily show a positive response.

You might want to spend some time figuring out exactly what the issue is. Celiac will give him diarrhea, a wheat allergy could kill him.

Thank you for your insight.

Regarding the respiratory issues, he has had none...or any diarrhea for that matter.

Regarding the anitbody test, now that you mention it, I remember being told that same thing in the past.

[Jestgar]

Regarding the respiratory issues, he has had none...or any diarrhea for that matter.

Good. They didn't mention if non-respiratory could switch, but you would think not. Still, it's worth knowing.

[drjsparker]

Welcome to the group. Actually you could feed him gluten for however long & he could have or develope complete villi atrophy & never get diarrhea. Some people have no GI symptoms & some people have constipation.

The diarrhea, wasting away, vomitting, nausea, are the classic symptoms that doctors look for (bless their hearts). The problem is that most people do not exhibit the classic symptoms. Some people in fact have the opposite symptoms, they gain weight, have constipation, have a "beer gut" etc.

If you are wanting a non invasive test I suggest that you look into Enterolab.com & get their testing & the gene test also. I would guess that with the food allergies that your child has at least one DQ1 gene. My family almost all have two DQ1 genes. We have a lot of food allergies.

Also, note that you can be allergic to wheat & still have celiac or gluten intolerance. I am allergic to barley & oats in addition to being gluten intolerant (celiac really, no difference in my opinion, but I let it go, does not matter what you call it, the treatment is the same & the results are the same if you continue to eat gluten - not good...) Of course I have other food allergies also, but although I had been wheat light for over 10 years thinking that I had an allergy, once I went totally gluten free it made a huge difference in my health for the better. A lot of my food allergies went away at that time! Wow, I would give up wheat any day to be able to eat corn, tomatoes, pork, peaches, and oranges.

Of course I never had the withdrawal that people talk about & I did not have to adjust my lifestyle all that much, I was already used to taking my own food etc.

You are right to check into this for your child. Most people in my family are born with "issues". I was born with it, my son was born sick, & his son was sick at birth & had failure to thrive in the womb which continued.

Some people talk about a trigger, but in my family just being born was the trigger as far as I am concerned.

I have a 10 YO granddaughter that is double DQ1 & has recently put on weight & lost all the enamel on all her teeth. Dental health is a big issue for children. It is not that they are not brushing their teeth it is that they are not absorbing the proper nutrients. Then later comes osteporosis, arthritis, other auto-immune illnesses. She spent her younger life, taking breathing treatments for an asthma like condition (common for wheat) has had many colds, ear infections, hives, rashes, itchy rashes (I suspect DH), walking pneumonia - twice a year or so ago, consitpation her whole life, well you can see - no doctor has diagnosed her & never will although it is fairly plain what her problem is. No wonder the parents refuse for her to be gluten-free, they are waiting on some nitwit doctor to care enough to find out. sorry, I guess I have a small rant here... But it does point out that some people are totally atypical when it comes to symptoms or lack of.

First off, thank you for taking the time elaborate in such detail.

My first thought is, without any potential external signs, how would one know that there is a problem? I suppose that's the whole point in all of this...that's it is potentially overlooked quite frequently.

The 'common sense' side of me feels that if his diet consists of wheat, dairy, eggs, etc... yet he has no signs at all of anykind of distress (vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, respiratory issues, eczema, rash, being crabby, etc...) including lack of nutrient issues, that that would be a pretty good indicator that he does not have a problem processing these foods.

For example:

-2 days ago: 4 Ritz Whole Wheat crackers, and a couple of bites of bread

-Yesterday: 5 more Ritz crackers, 6 Wheat Thins, couple bites of bread

No reaction of anykind

Obviously, I'm right smack in the middle of the "Trying to talk myself and will him into being fine" phase of all this.